Hello NG,

I am very new to bonsai, in fact I haven't had a plant in the house for
quite years now. Round christmas I decided I might try my hands on a
bonsai tree or two. As I am with things, I always start from the ground
up. Thus, I'm starting from the seed. About 4 weeks ago I have sown out
ficus religiosa and pomegranate. According to the guide that came with
the seeds, all I needed to do was sand the pomegranate seeds a bit and
then put both in a pot without burying them. I have watered them
properly since, and they are spending quality time in the sun, covered
with clingwrap to produce a sort of greenhouse effect. So far so good
(except maybe, that in the process of watering, most seeds have been
covered by earth - I hope this doesen't harm them?).

Now it did say 6-8 weeks for the pomegranate and a little longer for the
ficus. But still I was wondering whether something should be happening
about now? On the one pomegranate seed I can still see, I can see no
evidence of shoots whatsoever. Did I screw up or am I just too impatient?

cheers
Berti

Berti Ferranti wrote:

am I just too impatient?

cheers
Berti


Yes, which doesn't bode well for the future, because patience is what
you are going to need for years. Seeds are the absolute slowest way to
grow and develop a bonsai.

Did I say years? Make that YEARS!

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature encourages
no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Berti: As Jim says, growing bonsai from seed requires vast
patience.
Aside from that, however, wrapping the seeds in clingwrap
(I presume you mean plastic wrap from the kitchen) to create "a
sort of greenhouse effect" is probably fatal. A common problem
with seedlings is damping off, and this "greenhouse effect" is
keeping them moist and anaerobic, just the right conditions for
fungi to decimate the seeds. A good greenhouse has excellent
ventilation. Your clingwrap could not.
Alan Walker
http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org


-----Original Message-----
From: Berti Ferranti
Hello NG,
I am very new to bonsai, in fact I haven't had a plant in the
house for
quite years now. Round christmas I decided I might try my hands
on a
bonsai tree or two. As I am with things, I always start from the
ground
up. Thus, I'm starting from the seed. About 4 weeks ago I have
sown out
ficus religiosa and pomegranate. According to the guide that came
with
the seeds, all I needed to do was sand the pomegranate seeds a
bit and
then put both in a pot without burying them. I have watered them
properly since, and they are spending quality time in the sun,
covered
with clingwrap to produce a sort of greenhouse effect. So far so
good
(except maybe, that in the process of watering, most seeds have
been
covered by earth - I hope this doesen't harm them?).

Now it did say 6-8 weeks for the pomegranate and a little longer
for the
ficus. But still I was wondering whether something should be
happening
about now? On the one pomegranate seed I can still see, I can see
no
evidence of shoots whatsoever. Did I screw up or am I just too
impatient?
cheers
Berti

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Edmund Castillo++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Alan Walker schrieb:
Berti: As Jim says, growing bonsai from seed requires vast
patience.
Aside from that, however, wrapping the seeds in clingwrap
(I presume you mean plastic wrap from the kitchen) to create "a
sort of greenhouse effect" is probably fatal. A common problem
with seedlings is damping off, and this "greenhouse effect" is
keeping them moist and anaerobic, just the right conditions for
fungi to decimate the seeds. A good greenhouse has excellent
ventilation. Your clingwrap could not.
Alan Walker
http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org

The seeds themselves are - of course - NOT wrapped. The guide said to
put the wrap over the pots. There are however holes in the wrap through
which the seeds can "breathe". I don't think I want to go as far as
building an actual greenhouse in my bedroom...

What do you mean by "vast" patience? According to the guide, it should
take no more than ten weeks for them to sprout. Sure, it'll take some
time before they look like something. But I'm not gonna die anytime
soon. It's just more personal that way.

Berti

Berti Ferranti wrote:
Alan Walker schrieb:

Berti: As Jim says, growing bonsai from seed requires vast
patience.
Aside from that, however, wrapping the seeds in clingwrap
(I presume you mean plastic wrap from the kitchen) to create "a
sort of greenhouse effect" is probably fatal. A common problem
with seedlings is damping off, and this "greenhouse effect" is
keeping them moist and anaerobic, just the right conditions for
fungi to decimate the seeds. A good greenhouse has excellent
ventilation. Your clingwrap could not. Alan Walker
http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org


The seeds themselves are - of course - NOT wrapped. The guide said to
put the wrap over the pots. There are however holes in the wrap through
which the seeds can "breathe". I don't think I want to go as far as
building an actual greenhouse in my bedroom...

What do you mean by "vast" patience? According to the guide, it should
take no more than ten weeks for them to sprout. Sure, it'll take some
time before they look like something. But I'm not gonna die anytime
soon. It's just more personal that way.

amusing that cliché everybody thinks the sam wrong way e .. must be a
human glitch !


Berti

In article 000901c5473f$4b82eb30$6101a8c0@Alan,
(Alan Walker) wrote:

Berti: As Jim says, growing bonsai from seed requires vast
patience.
Aside from that, however, wrapping the seeds in clingwrap
(I presume you mean plastic wrap from the kitchen) to create "a
sort of greenhouse effect" is probably fatal. A common problem
with seedlings is damping off, and this "greenhouse effect" is
keeping them moist and anaerobic, just the right conditions for
fungi to decimate the seeds. A good greenhouse has excellent
ventilation. Your clingwrap could not.
Alan Walker

He put the plastic wrap over seeds, not seedlings. I assume he'll remove
it as soon as the seeds sprout.

This technique has been suggested in a number of gardening sources. It
serves the same purpose as the clear plastic domes on those mini-greenhouse
plant starter trays. It helps keep the moisture level in the soil fairly
constant, which the seeds need to germinate. The plastic should be removed
when the seeds germinate.

http://healthyherbs.about.com/library/weekly/aa012299.htm
http://www.taunton.com/finegardening/pages/g00155.asp
http://www.ext.nodak.edu/extpubs/plantsci/landscap/h1139w.htm
http://www.ext.colostate.edu/ptlk/1034.html
http://www.bachmans.com/tipsheets/ge...ojectswithSeed
s.cfm

Tiziano,

What's the cliché? That it's more personal to grow a bonsai from seed?

Don

snip

What do you mean by "vast" patience? According to the guide, it
should
take no more than ten weeks for them to sprout. Sure, it'll take
some
time before they look like something. But I'm not gonna die anytime
soon. It's just more personal that way.

amusing that cliché everybody thinks the sam wrong way e
.. must be a human glitch !


Berti

snip

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++++Sponsored, in part, by Edmund Castillo++++
************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Wayne C. Morris schrieb:
In article 000901c5473f$4b82eb30$6101a8c0@Alan,
(Alan Walker) wrote:


Berti: As Jim says, growing bonsai from seed requires vast
patience.
Aside from that, however, wrapping the seeds in clingwrap
(I presume you mean plastic wrap from the kitchen) to create "a
sort of greenhouse effect" is probably fatal. A common problem
with seedlings is damping off, and this "greenhouse effect" is
keeping them moist and anaerobic, just the right conditions for
fungi to decimate the seeds. A good greenhouse has excellent
ventilation. Your clingwrap could not.
Alan Walker


He put the plastic wrap over seeds, not seedlings. I assume he'll remove
it as soon as the seeds sprout.

Yup, quite right.

This technique has been suggested in a number of gardening sources. It
serves the same purpose as the clear plastic domes on those mini-greenhouse
plant starter trays. It helps keep the moisture level in the soil fairly
constant, which the seeds need to germinate. The plastic should be removed
when the seeds germinate.

http://healthyherbs.about.com/library/weekly/aa012299.htm
http://www.taunton.com/finegardening/pages/g00155.asp
http://www.ext.nodak.edu/extpubs/plantsci/landscap/h1139w.htm
http://www.ext.colostate.edu/ptlk/1034.html
http://www.bachmans.com/tipsheets/ge...ojectswithSeed
s.cfm

Thanks for the advice, Wayne. I assume the rest is OK, too? Seeing that
seed viabiliity check with the water I am wondering whether I haven't
been sold dead seed...

cheers Berti

Don Walker schrieb:
Tiziano,

What's the cliché? That it's more personal to grow a bonsai from seed?

Don


time before they look like something. But I'm not gonna die anytime
soon. It's just more personal that way.

amusing that cliché everybody thinks the sam wrong way e
.. must be a human glitch !

Mayhap he means that bit about dying. I don't live in the states buddy,
I am not constantly switching through defcons.

Berti

What do you mean by "vast" patience? According to the guide, it should
take no more than ten weeks for them to sprout. Sure, it'll take some
time before they look like something. But I'm not gonna die anytime
soon. It's just more personal that way.


Well, I _thought_ I offered an idea of how long . . . but you
won't/shouldn't do anything in the way of bonsai training on these for
at least 5 years. This fall, you can transplant to individual pots;
every spring you can pinch off the new leaders as they form, but that's
about all.

You can't possibly think of displaying them anywhere for at least 10
years.

Seems you'll need something else to do in the interim. ;-)

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - People, when
Columbus discovered this country, it was plum full of nuts and berries.
And I'm right here to tell you (that) the berries are just about all
gone. -- Uncle Dave Macon, musician

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Edmund Castillo++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Don Walker wrote:

Tiziano,

What's the cliché? That it's more personal to grow a bonsai from seed?

no it is the classic error of all newbees that think that is better
and give a personal fingerprint to the plant and so on a lot of clichés
as Jim Lewis said is a waste of time .. but one is free to do as one
wish ..


Don

snip

What do you mean by "vast" patience? According to the guide, it

should

take no more than ten weeks for them to sprout. Sure, it'll take

some

time before they look like something. But I'm not gonna die anytime
soon. It's just more personal that way.

amusing that cliché everybody thinks the sam wrong way e
.. must be a human glitch !


Berti

snip

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Edmund Castillo++++
************************************************** ******************************

-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --

+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Berti Ferranti wrote:

Don Walker schrieb:

Tiziano,

What's the cliché? That it's more personal to grow a bonsai from seed?

Don


time before they look like something. But I'm not gonna die anytime
soon. It's just more personal that way.


amusing that cliché everybody thinks the sam wrong way e .. must be
a human glitch !


Mayhap he means that bit about dying. I don't live in the states buddy,
I am not constantly switching through defcons.

Berti
not for dying no one knows when will be the day..
starting from seeds is a fixed idea of newbes

Tiziano schrieb:


Berti Ferranti wrote:

Don Walker schrieb:

Tiziano,

What's the cliché? That it's more personal to grow a bonsai from seed?

Don


time before they look like something. But I'm not gonna die anytime
soon. It's just more personal that way.



amusing that cliché everybody thinks the sam wrong way e .. must
be a human glitch !



Mayhap he means that bit about dying. I don't live in the states
buddy, I am not constantly switching through defcons.

Berti

not for dying no one knows when will be the day..
starting from seeds is a fixed idea of newbes


So let me get this straight: Only Newbies think that growing your bonsai
from the seed is a more personal experience? And all pros like you never
touch seeds but buy 1-yr-olds and only work on them?

Berti

Jim Lewis schrieb:
What do you mean by "vast" patience? According to the guide, it should
take no more than ten weeks for them to sprout. Sure, it'll take some
time before they look like something. But I'm not gonna die anytime
soon. It's just more personal that way.


Well, I _thought_ I offered an idea of how long . . . but you
won't/shouldn't do anything in the way of bonsai training on these for
at least 5 years. This fall, you can transplant to individual pots;
every spring you can pinch off the new leaders as they form, but that's
about all.

You can't possibly think of displaying them anywhere for at least 10 years.

Seems you'll need something else to do in the interim. ;-)

Don't worry, I do have a life. These are not for a "display". They are
my plant buddies and I consider watching them grow an important part of
the process.

Berti