I enjoy the traditions of bonsai as well as the next guy, but I am experimenting with using the
weight of a bonsai to determine when to water them by incorporating a little technology. I’m
rather new to bonsai and I am trying the skewer method of determining when to water my plants,
but sometimes I’m having trouble figuring out exactly when to water from moisture, or lack of it,
on a skewer stick. Bonsai experts kept saying you can determine when to water also by the weight
of the plant, so I just started to use a digital postage scale, which shows lbs/oz or kg/g, to help
me to know when to water my bonsai. Of course this only works with smaller plants and if you
don’t have many to deal with. What I’m starting to do is when I repot I weigh the bonsai before any
water is introduced and then again after it’s totally saturated. This gives me two numbers and
then I try to figure out at what point between these two weights do I need to water again. From
what I have read it seems to be, as a general rule, average plants at about 50% or so moisture
content of soil; please correct me if I’m wrong. This would change with each bonsai and that I am
trying to determine now. Obviously watching my plants will help me to determine at what point to
water. Has anyone experimented with this sort of crazy idea and does anyone have any insight
into what a general rewatering point would be for some common bonsai, say a Juniper, Chinese
Elm or any others? If you think this is a crazy idea let me know, but I’m thinking it would be one
way for someone new to this hobby, like myself, and someone who doesn’t mind using a little
technology with an old artform, to figure out when to water with a little more certainty, and
hopefully keep a few more bonsai alive and well. Oh yes, try not to laugh too much at this idea.

Gary Huff
Virginia
Zone 7a

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On May 24, 2005, at 5:26 PM, Gary Huff wrote:

I enjoy the traditions of bonsai as well as the next guy, but I am
experimenting with using the
weight of a bonsai to determine when to water them by incorporating a
little technology. I’m
rather new to bonsai and I am trying the skewer method of determining
when to water my plants,
but sometimes I’m having trouble figuring out exactly when to water
from moisture, or lack of it,
on a skewer stick. Bonsai experts kept saying you can determine when
to water also by the weight

snip
If you think this is a crazy idea let me know, but I’m thinking it
would be one
way for someone new to this hobby, like myself, and someone who
doesn’t mind using a little
technology with an old artform, to figure out when to water with a
little more certainty, and
hopefully keep a few more bonsai alive and well. Oh yes, try not to
laugh too much at this idea.

Gary Huff
Virginia
Zone 7a


You must not have very many trees.

Craig Cowing
NY
Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37

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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

It's great idea if the tree doesn't grow and add weight by having new wood and leaves or needles. also you may not want to wait until the tree is totally dry before watering. So how much should tree weigh with the amount of wqter it should still have when you are planning to rewater. I personally think that weighing the tree to determine whether it needs water is NOT a good idea.
If you are just in the mood to get a gadget try a moisture meter. That might be interesting.


SteveW
Long Island NY


-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Huff
To:
Sent: Tue, 24 May 2005 17:26:26 -0400
Subject: [IBC] Bonsai Watering-A Crazy Idea


I enjoy the traditions of bonsai as well as the next guy, but I am experimenting
with using the
weight of a bonsai to determine when to water them by incorporating a little
technology. I’m
rather new to bonsai and I am trying the skewer method of determining when to
water my plants,
but sometimes I’m having trouble figuring out exactly when to water from
moisture, or lack of it,
on a skewer stick. Bonsai experts kept saying you can determine when to water
also by the weight
of the plant, so I just started to use a digital postage scale, which shows
lbs/oz or kg/g, to help
me to know when to water my bonsai. Of course this only works with smaller
plants and if you
don’t have many to deal with. What I’m starting to do is when I repot I weigh
the bonsai before any
water is introduced and then again after it’s totally saturated. This gives me
two numbers and
then I try to figure out at what point between these two weights do I need to
water again. From
what I have read it seems to be, as a general rule, average plants at about 50%
or so moisture
content of soil; please correct me if I’m wrong. This would change with each
bonsai and that I am
trying to determine now. Obviously watching my plants will help me to determine
at what point to
water. Has anyone experimented with this sort of crazy idea and does anyone have
any insight
into what a general rewatering point would be for some common bonsai, say a
Juniper, Chinese
Elm or any others? If you think this is a crazy idea let me know, but I’m
thinking it would be one
way for someone new to this hobby, like myself, and someone who doesn’t mind
using a little
technology with an old artform, to figure out when to water with a little more
certainty, and
hopefully keep a few more bonsai alive and well. Oh yes, try not to laugh too
much at this idea.

Gary Huff
Virginia
Zone 7a

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

I think that this has been tried before. I know that old timers used the
technique but without the scales, for all sorts of potted plants. They also
used the sound that a pot makes when tapped to judge when water was
required. I think that if it woks for you and allows you to learn how to
work with your trees succesfully then go for it. As has been said, it will
only work while you have just a couple of trees.

Eventually the process will become second nature. You will know just by
looking, but until then use any device you need to learn and then reassure
yourself.

Cheers

Kev Bailey
North Wales, UK Zone 9

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Many years ago I had a watering system somewhat like that for my
greenhouse experiments: one pot was on a scale, and when it lost a
certain amount of weight, it triggered a drip irrigation system for the
whole bench. Obviously, this will only work for potted plants that all
weigh the same, and as I remember, it didn't work very well, period.
Now my experimental plants are on a timer and they can be programmed to
get watered once a day or twice a day, for 1-5 minutes, and if they're
in a big pot, they can have 2 or more emitters. That gives me lots of
wiggle room.

As for my bonsai at home, I have too many to be fussy: the darn things
get watered once a day. They are in a well-draining mix. End of
story.



Gary Huff wrote:
I enjoy the traditions of bonsai as well as the next guy, but I am experimenting with using the
weight of a bonsai to determine when to water them by incorporating a little technology. +++++

Gary,

There are no crazy ideas. I tell myself that all the time - and you'd
think I'd listen to myself but no, that would just be too much to ask.
So ultimately I agree with you but not with myself. 8^P

I think the weight of the tree is as good an objective indicator of
water depletion as you're going to get. Your methodology, however,
sounds a little over simplified. You will, at least, have to
periodically recalibrate - but that should be simple enough by keeping
track of the saturated weight and developing an algorithm to adjust your
watering target weight.

Now, if you were to use load cells or piezoelectric sensors under each
pot feeding data to a central controller which could actuate individual
solenoid valves for each tree... throw in light and thermal sensors...
write some monitoring software to tie it all together and allow
independent plant programmability (and don't forget to include alarms to
indicate broken valves, plugged emitters, and broken sensors)... then,
when you collect enough data, you can preprogram for new trees based on
the size and species and an arbitrary health index...

And after everything is working perfectly Murphy's law will still wind
up killing your favorite tree because you overlooked some variable and
depended too heavily on the technological fix. The human brain is still
the best water controller available.

I hope you will keep good records and let us know the results.

-Don

-----Original Message-----
From: Internet Bonsai Club
] On Behalf Of Gary Huff
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 4:26 PM
To:
Subject: [IBC] Bonsai Watering-A Crazy Idea

I enjoy the traditions of bonsai as well as the next guy, but
I am experimenting with using the weight of a bonsai to
determine when to water them by incorporating a little
technology. I'm rather new to bonsai and I am trying the
skewer method of determining when to water my plants, but
sometimes I'm having trouble figuring out exactly when to
water from moisture, or lack of it, on a skewer stick. Bonsai
experts kept saying you can determine when to water also by
the weight of the plant, so I just started to use a digital
postage scale, which shows lbs/oz or kg/g, to help me to know
when to water my bonsai. Of course this only works with
smaller plants and if you don't have many to deal with. What
I'm starting to do is when I repot I weigh the bonsai before
any water is introduced and then again after it's totally
saturated. This gives me two numbers and then I try to figure
out at what point between these two weights do I need to
water again. From what I have read it seems to be, as a
general rule, average plants at about 50% or so moisture
content of soil; please correct me if I'm wrong. This would
change with each bonsai and that I am trying to determine
now. Obviously watching my plants will help me to determine
at what point to water. Has anyone experimented with this
sort of crazy idea and does anyone have any insight into what
a general rewatering point would be for some common bonsai,
say a Juniper, Chinese Elm or any others? If you think this
is a crazy idea let me know, but I'm thinking it would be one
way for someone new to this hobby, like myself, and someone
who doesn't mind using a little technology with an old
artform, to figure out when to water with a little more
certainty, and hopefully keep a few more bonsai alive and
well. Oh yes, try not to laugh too much at this idea.

Gary Huff
Virginia
Zone 7a

************************************************** ************
******************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
************************************************** ************
******************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/
-- --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail
+++++


************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++