On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 06:16:49 -0500, (Pat
Kiewicz) wrote:

Sue said:

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 22:26:20 GMT, John Savage
wrote:

It could be that bees have better things to do with their time than
gather pollen from your plants, or the weather might be inclement so they
choose to stay home and just put their feet up.

G Sounds like a good idea to me. I am sooo glad it's the weekend.
We had about 20 days of over 100 degrees. I don't know much about
bees - is that too hot for them to be active?

No, but your weather was too hot for your tomatoes to be setting
fruit. (Which you commented on earlier in this thread.)

I understand that from an earlier thread. I have one tomato plant
that hasn't gotten outrageously big like the others and it's had more
tomatoes than the others despite the heat. I don't know why this one
particular one didn't branch out all over the place as the others did.

I had
a short lull in ripening fruit on my tomato plants which is probably
connected to a stretch of very hot weather earlier this summer.

Squash will abort fruit (sometimes without the flower even opening) when
they are stressed (by fruit load, pests, or environmental circumstances).

I did some hand pollinating this morning with a paint brush and
noticed that some of the blossoms (the females) had lots of ants in
them. Would those be in the pest category?
I'm awfully discouraged with this gardening business.
Sue

Sue said:

On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 06:16:49 -0500, (Pat
Kiewicz) wrote:
Squash will abort fruit (sometimes without the flower even opening) when
they are stressed (by fruit load, pests, or environmental circumstances).

I did some hand pollinating this morning with a paint brush and
noticed that some of the blossoms (the females) had lots of ants in
them. Would those be in the pest category?

Ants? Not usually a pest on squash. (Ants do sometimes become pest
when they nibble soft fruits like raspberries in my garden.) Cucumber
beetles, squash vine borers, and squash bugs are more the pests I had
in mind. Aphids can be a problem because they can carry mosaic virus.
(Unfortunately, this has been a bad year for virus in Michigan.)

I'm awfully discouraged with this gardening business.

There's always next year...though every year it's always something.

Last year I lost virtually my whole pepper crop (to maggots), but the
corn was great. This year I've got ahead of the pepper maggots and
the corn is awful (one planting every ear but one was smutty).

If you haven't done so already, get a soil test. Find out if you have an
obvious shortage in something. (My first test showed that the soil was
low in potassium and high in phosphorous, so the typical 'balanced'
fertilizers weren't really appropriate.)

Work in some compost this fall. Maybe plant some garlic. Read
some gardening books. (_Square Foot Gardening_ is good for
beginners, though I think Mel Bartholomew is a bit optimistic on
his spacings.)

Take credit for your successes and for anything else blame the weather!
Too much rain, not enough rain, rain at the wrong time, too hot,
not hot enough--there's always some reason to fault it!

--
Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast)

Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(attributed to Don Marti)

Sue writes:
I'd asked about this rot business here awhile back. Mine get about an
inch or two, turn yellow and rot. Lots of suggestions.

That is what happens when they have not been pollinated. The flowers are
big enough that you can do it by hand: on a morning that both male and
female flowers are open, break off the male flower, tear away the petals
and rub the male flower onto the centre (stigma) inside each of the open
female flowers. Do this while the plant is still wet with dew.

One was that
they may not be getting enough water so I'm trying to increase it.

It is easy to tell when they are not getting enough water: the leaves
droop alarmingly in the midday heat!

My problem is disorganization - I just don't have a schedule. I did
but my backyard auto sprinkler system died to it's up to me.

Sprinklers? Sprinklers are a recipe for mildew on curcubits. Try not to
wet the leaves when you water them. A dripper system is necessary for
this. You can build up a wall around the centre of the plant so that
water from the hose is contained and soaks in, or half bury a tin can
open at both ends and direct water into this so that it soaks into the
soil. Just take care to now wet any leaves.

Another couple of things I've noticed with the zucchini that are
actually maturing (and I ought to start another thread about this, I
suppose) is that they are quite pale and some are bulbous looking -
almost like gourds. I've never had either of these problems. I'm

They should be okay. BUT ... if any zucchini develops with the free
end noticeably thinner than the stem end then it will be bitter tasting
and you may as well break it off and discard it before it wastes energy
from the plant.

assuming that I've planted the same type as usual - cheapies from
Wal*Mart.

IME zucchinis grow much better when you plant the seed directly, rather
than transplanted from seedlings.

Does a squash plant support more than one squash at a time? For example, it
seems that while a big zucchini is growing, several incipient ones grow
poorly or even rot. If I remove the big zucchini, another one starts to
grow.

Zucchinis are melt-in-your-mouth tasty if you pick them one or two DAYS
after their open-flower stage (yes, break off the flower!), rather than
leaving them to grow for WEEKS. Pick them small and the plant will produce
dozens more; leave any to grow large and you will have far fewer and they
are not anywhere near as tasty.
--
John Savage (my news address is not valid for email)

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 23:01:05 GMT, John Savage
wrote:

Sue writes:
I'd asked about this rot business here awhile back. Mine get about an
inch or two, turn yellow and rot. Lots of suggestions.

That is what happens when they have not been pollinated. The flowers are
big enough that you can do it by hand: on a morning that both male and
female flowers are open, break off the male flower, tear away the petals
and rub the male flower onto the centre (stigma) inside each of the open
female flowers. Do this while the plant is still wet with dew.

I've used a paint brush as was suggested by someone else.


One was that
they may not be getting enough water so I'm trying to increase it.

It is easy to tell when they are not getting enough water: the leaves
droop alarmingly in the midday heat!

Some book I read said they need about 4 gallons a week.


My problem is disorganization - I just don't have a schedule. I did
but my backyard auto sprinkler system died to it's up to me.

Sprinklers? Sprinklers are a recipe for mildew on curcubits.

Curcubits??? As far as I can tell I don't have mildew.

Try not to
wet the leaves when you water them. A dripper system is necessary for
this. You can build up a wall around the centre of the plant so that
water from the hose is contained and soaks in, or half bury a tin can
open at both ends and direct water into this so that it soaks into the
soil. Just take care to now wet any leaves.

I've just been using a slow running hose now. Maybe drip next year.


Another couple of things I've noticed with the zucchini that are
actually maturing (and I ought to start another thread about this, I
suppose) is that they are quite pale and some are bulbous looking -
almost like gourds. I've never had either of these problems. I'm

They should be okay. BUT ... if any zucchini develops with the free
end noticeably thinner than the stem end then it will be bitter tasting
and you may as well break it off and discard it before it wastes energy
from the plant.

Hmmm. I didn't know that. Not had that problem. Last year the
blossom ends weren't closing.


assuming that I've planted the same type as usual - cheapies from
Wal*Mart.

IME zucchinis grow much better when you plant the seed directly, rather
than transplanted from seedlings.

Were I planting lots of them I might do this. However, my limit
(space wise) is four or five.


Does a squash plant support more than one squash at a time? For example, it
seems that while a big zucchini is growing, several incipient ones grow
poorly or even rot. If I remove the big zucchini, another one starts to
grow.

Zucchinis are melt-in-your-mouth tasty if you pick them one or two DAYS
after their open-flower stage (yes, break off the flower!), rather than
leaving them to grow for WEEKS.

Break off the flower when it doesn't open anymore? I didn't know that
either. My ignorance is obviously huge. How can you keep track of
which ones are ready to have the flowers picked off?

Pick them small and the plant will produce
dozens more;

How small would you say?

leave any to grow large and you will have far fewer and they
are not anywhere near as tasty.

Sometimes they hide and get away from me. (
Sue

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 23:01:05 GMT, John Savage
wrote:

Sue writes:
I'd asked about this rot business here awhile back. Mine get about an
inch or two, turn yellow and rot. Lots of suggestions.

That is what happens when they have not been pollinated. The flowers are
big enough that you can do it by hand: on a morning that both male and
female flowers are open, break off the male flower, tear away the petals
and rub the male flower onto the centre (stigma) inside each of the open
female flowers. Do this while the plant is still wet with dew.

One was that
they may not be getting enough water so I'm trying to increase it.

It is easy to tell when they are not getting enough water: the leaves
droop alarmingly in the midday heat!

My problem is disorganization - I just don't have a schedule. I did
but my backyard auto sprinkler system died to it's up to me.

Sprinklers? Sprinklers are a recipe for mildew on curcubits. Try not to
wet the leaves when you water them. A dripper system is necessary for
this. You can build up a wall around the centre of the plant so that
water from the hose is contained and soaks in, or half bury a tin can
open at both ends and direct water into this so that it soaks into the
soil. Just take care to now wet any leaves.

Another couple of things I've noticed with the zucchini that are
actually maturing (and I ought to start another thread about this, I
suppose) is that they are quite pale and some are bulbous looking -
almost like gourds. I've never had either of these problems. I'm

They should be okay. BUT ... if any zucchini develops with the free
end noticeably thinner than the stem end then it will be bitter tasting
and you may as well break it off and discard it before it wastes energy
from the plant.

assuming that I've planted the same type as usual - cheapies from
Wal*Mart.

IME zucchinis grow much better when you plant the seed directly, rather
than transplanted from seedlings.

Does a squash plant support more than one squash at a time? For example, it
seems that while a big zucchini is growing, several incipient ones grow
poorly or even rot. If I remove the big zucchini, another one starts to
grow.

Zucchinis are melt-in-your-mouth tasty if you pick them one or two DAYS
after their open-flower stage (yes, break off the flower!), rather than
leaving them to grow for WEEKS. Pick them small and the plant will produce
dozens more; leave any to grow large and you will have far fewer and they
are not anywhere near as tasty.

Oh, thanks a lot for the advice.
Sue

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 05:35:54 -0500, (Pat
Kiewicz) wrote:

Sue said:

On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 06:16:49 -0500, (Pat
Kiewicz) wrote:
Squash will abort fruit (sometimes without the flower even opening) when
they are stressed (by fruit load, pests, or environmental circumstances).

I did some hand pollinating this morning with a paint brush and
noticed that some of the blossoms (the females) had lots of ants in
them. Would those be in the pest category?

Ants? Not usually a pest on squash. (Ants do sometimes become pest
when they nibble soft fruits like raspberries in my garden.) Cucumber
beetles, squash vine borers, and squash bugs are more the pests I had
in mind. Aphids can be a problem because they can carry mosaic virus.
(Unfortunately, this has been a bad year for virus in Michigan.)

I'm awfully discouraged with this gardening business.

There's always next year...though every year it's always something.

Yep. My gentleman friend's hobby is shooting trap. He only has to
wait a week whenever he doesn't do well.


Last year I lost virtually my whole pepper crop (to maggots), but the
corn was great. This year I've got ahead of the pepper maggots and
the corn is awful (one planting every ear but one was smutty).

I mentioned in some post a couple of weeks ago that the only year I
grew corn it was overwhelmed with ants. I never tried again because I
had no idea how to prevent them.


If you haven't done so already, get a soil test. Find out if you have an
obvious shortage in something. (My first test showed that the soil was
low in potassium and high in phosphorous, so the typical 'balanced'
fertilizers weren't really appropriate.)

I've never done that and know that I should. Where does one get a
test kit. I've never seen one but never really looked either. We
have no nursery here which is why my gardening supplies come from
Wal*Mart.


Work in some compost this fall. Maybe plant some garlic. Read
some gardening books. (_Square Foot Gardening_ is good for
beginners, though I think Mel Bartholomew is a bit optimistic on
his spacings.)

You answered my question before I asked. I was wondering what a good
gardening book might be. I have Sunset and some other, but they don't
really go into problems or details. Too general.


Take credit for your successes and for anything else blame the weather!
Too much rain, not enough rain, rain at the wrong time, too hot,
not hot enough--there's always some reason to fault it!

G Good plan. Thanks for your help.
Sue

Sue said:

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 05:35:54 -0500, (Pat
Kiewicz) wrote:

If you haven't done so already, get a soil test. Find out if you have an
obvious shortage in something. (My first test showed that the soil was
low in potassium and high in phosphorous, so the typical 'balanced'
fertilizers weren't really appropriate.)

I've never done that and know that I should. Where does one get a
test kit. I've never seen one but never really looked either. We
have no nursery here which is why my gardening supplies come from
Wal*Mart.

The in the US, look to your state cooperative extension service for soil
testing. You can check the phone book (in the County Government
section) to see if your county has an extension service office, or use
the following web site to look for your state soil testing lab (this site
includes links to soil labs in Nova Scotia and Ontario Canada, too):

http://www.motherearthnews.com/directory/soil_test/

You order a test kit, which will come with instructions, which you follow
to gather you soil sample. Mail it back and wait for results and
recommendations.

--
Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast)

Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(attributed to Don Marti)

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 23:01:05 GMT, John Savage
wrote:

Sue writes:
I'd asked about this rot business here awhile back. Mine get about an
inch or two, turn yellow and rot. Lots of suggestions.

That is what happens when they have not been pollinated. The flowers are
big enough that you can do it by hand: on a morning that both male and
female flowers are open, break off the male flower, tear away the petals
and rub the male flower onto the centre (stigma) inside each of the open
female flowers. Do this while the plant is still wet with dew.

One was that
they may not be getting enough water so I'm trying to increase it.

It is easy to tell when they are not getting enough water: the leaves
droop alarmingly in the midday heat!

My problem is disorganization - I just don't have a schedule. I did
but my backyard auto sprinkler system died to it's up to me.

Sprinklers? Sprinklers are a recipe for mildew on curcubits. Try not to
wet the leaves when you water them. A dripper system is necessary for
this. You can build up a wall around the centre of the plant so that
water from the hose is contained and soaks in, or half bury a tin can
open at both ends and direct water into this so that it soaks into the
soil. Just take care to now wet any leaves.

Another couple of things I've noticed with the zucchini that are
actually maturing (and I ought to start another thread about this, I
suppose) is that they are quite pale and some are bulbous looking -
almost like gourds. I've never had either of these problems. I'm

They should be okay. BUT ... if any zucchini develops with the free
end noticeably thinner than the stem end then it will be bitter tasting
and you may as well break it off and discard it before it wastes energy
from the plant.

assuming that I've planted the same type as usual - cheapies from
Wal*Mart.

IME zucchinis grow much better when you plant the seed directly, rather
than transplanted from seedlings.
John, can you start them from seeds on Long Island? Are you living
in a much warmer place that I am? If you are planting seeds, when do
you have to start them? It may be too cold here for that.

Did you enter your location on the map at
http://myguestmap.lorca.eti.br/guest...alan&locale=en ?

Does a squash plant support more than one squash at a time? For example, it
seems that while a big zucchini is growing, several incipient ones grow
poorly or even rot. If I remove the big zucchini, another one starts to
grow.

Zucchinis are melt-in-your-mouth tasty if you pick them one or two DAYS
after their open-flower stage (yes, break off the flower!), rather than
leaving them to grow for WEEKS. Pick them small and the plant will produce
dozens more; leave any to grow large and you will have far fewer and they
are not anywhere near as tasty.

Sue, where are you located? Did you put your name and location on the
map at
http://myguestmap.lorca.eti.br/guest...alan&locale=en ?

On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 00:53:29 GMT, Sue wrote:

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 22:26:20 GMT, John Savage
wrote:

Sue writes:
On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 05:32:14 GMT, wrote:

Does a squash plant support more than one squash at a time? For example, it
seems that while a big zucchini is growing, several incipient ones grow
poorly or even rot. If I remove the big zucchini, another one starts to
grow.

I have that rotting problem, too. Sigh.

Are you carrying out the pollination yourself? If the flower is not
properly pollinated the tiny fruit seems to rot or just grow stunted
before it falls. Use a small brush and perform the pollination yourself.

One day I went out to do this (hand pollination) and had to battle the
bees to get to the flowers. I decided it didn't need doing *that*
day. I'll try it again tomorrow. I'm also going to take a deep
breath and hack away at my huge tomato bushes. Hardly any tomatoes
but lots of bush. I need to rethink the whole garden thing next year.
I have so little space that I crowd too much (tomatoes and bells), I
don't do enough prep work and I shoulda found this NG before I planted
in the spring.


It could be that bees have better things to do with their time than
gather pollen from your plants, or the weather might be inclement so they
choose to stay home and just put their feet up.

G Sounds like a good idea to me. I am sooo glad it's the weekend.
We had about 20 days of over 100 degrees. I don't know much about
bees - is that too hot for them to be active?
Sue

Sue writes:
Some book I read said they need about 4 gallons a week.

That depends on how fast the soil drains, day temperatures, whether it's
windy, etc. A hot wind really dries out the plant. Poke your finger into
the soil, if it's damp then the plant doesn't need watering that day.

Sprinklers? Sprinklers are a recipe for mildew on curcubits.
Curcubits??? As far as I can tell I don't have mildew.

Most gardeners find that it's a progressive takeover by mildew that ends
the life of zucchini plants. The leaves turn white with mildew, but the
plant valiantly struggles on, bearing new flowers right to the last.

I've just been using a slow running hose now. Maybe drip next year.

A slow hose is fine. I pictured a sprinkler dowsing the whole plant.

Zucchinis are melt-in-your-mouth tasty if you pick them one or two DAYS
after their open-flower stage (yes, break off the flower!), rather than
leaving them to grow for WEEKS.

Break off the flower when it doesn't open anymore? I didn't know that
either. My ignorance is obviously huge. How can you keep track of
which ones are ready to have the flowers picked off?

Let's back up a bit. The zucchini fruit can be picked and cooked the day
its flower opens or any days later. If you pick them at the just-flowered
stage it really doesn't matter whether that particular flower has been
pollinated or not: by the time the plant realizes that that flower has
not been pollinated and prepares to abort that tiny fruit it discovers IT
IS TOO LATE---you've already picked and eaten the youngster! It is only
if you want the fruit to develop to a bigger size that you'll need to
pollinate it. In this regard the zucchini stands out from all others in
the curcubit family--you can harvest a good crop from your plants even if
you don't have bees and don't hand pollinate--provided you pick the tiny
zucchinis just after the flower has finished. The flower opens in the
early morning and lasts just one day, by the next day that flower is limp
and starting to wither. That's the best stage to harvest it, and after
a few minutes steaming add a dash of butter and a sprinkling of pepper!
Did you know the open flower is edible, too? I've seen mention of cooking
it in batter, but we'd just throw the flower over the fence for our pet
sheep. Shake any bees out first.

Pick them small and the plant will produce
dozens more;

How small would you say?

The day after the flower has fully opened. At this stage they are about
the length of your index finger. Maybe leave it for one more day, try it
and see.

leave any to grow large and you will have far fewer and they
are not anywhere near as tasty.

Sometimes they hide and get away from me. (

Yes, they are well camouflaged for concealment among the foliage. Pick
any big ones immediately you spy them, to encourage the plant to go on
producing more flowers. Best to note where the flowers are each day and
search that spot the following day. The yellow flowers themselves are
definitely not camouflaged!

The plants grow quickly and start bearing early in their life, so they
don't need anywhere near the long growing season of pumpkins, etc., where
you have to let the fruit reach maturity. You can probably stagger some
plantings throughout summer.

I'm in Australia.
--
John Savage (my news address is not valid for email)