JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"rachael simpson" wrote in message
...
Pennyaline wrote:
zxcvbob wrote:

*SNIP*
Here's one for you:

we own some land outside of a town near here. 20+ acres of pasture land,
currently occupied by 9 horses and 5 cows. NC DOT recently decided that
they want to take our pasture and run a *new* ditch thru it. The overflow
from an area pond runs thru the pasture in a little stream and now they
want to re-route it. We have been informed by local government, that they
are taking a little over 5 acres for this project, right down the middle
of the pasture, digging a trench, and lining it with landscaping rocks.
Do you know what effect that the rocks will have on the horses feet?!?
The way they want to fix it will almost eliminate any water flow thru the
pasture, thus having a bad effect on the cows. For those who aren't
ranchers on the group, the water is vital to the cows in other ways than
for drinking. Cows don't sweat, so they stand in the water to cool
themselves. The township and the county have already approved this
project. So how can we fight this one? Oh, and during this process, we
are *required* to remove all animals from the pasture, so as the machinery
won't scare them and make them *wild*. They *assure* us that we will be
paid for the acreage they take, as soon as the project is complete. Like
we had it for sale before hand or something............Everything I've
tried to do to prevent this, has turned into dead-ends. Frustrating! UGH!


What does your lawyer say about this? And, did you attend any town meetings
where this could have been discussed?



Ha, town meetings? let me tell you where those got me - NO WHERE! My
uncle is the town manager, his wife is the town secretary and thinks she
runs the whole town! They are upset that grandpa left the cows to me &
my kids, and not them..........you can guess the rest.

So far, we are having trouble finding a local lawyer who hasn't been in
my "aunt's" back pocket so to speak.

However, OTOH, I do have several circuit court judges who are my
friends, one of which is going over our case now. Hopefully, he can
refer us to someone who will take the case, or work on it himself.......

In the meantime, lots of prayer, looking for another pasture that we
might can rent for awhile, and trying to get some of the neighbors
around the pasture involved.

On 7/2/07 9:41 AM, in article , "rachael
simpson" wrote:

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"rachael simpson" wrote in message
...
Pennyaline wrote:
zxcvbob wrote:

*SNIP*
Here's one for you:

we own some land outside of a town near here. 20+ acres of pasture land,
currently occupied by 9 horses and 5 cows. NC DOT recently decided that
they want to take our pasture and run a *new* ditch thru it. The overflow
from an area pond runs thru the pasture in a little stream and now they
want to re-route it. We have been informed by local government, that they
are taking a little over 5 acres for this project, right down the middle
of the pasture, digging a trench, and lining it with landscaping rocks.
Do you know what effect that the rocks will have on the horses feet?!?
The way they want to fix it will almost eliminate any water flow thru the
pasture, thus having a bad effect on the cows. For those who aren't
ranchers on the group, the water is vital to the cows in other ways than
for drinking. Cows don't sweat, so they stand in the water to cool
themselves. The township and the county have already approved this
project. So how can we fight this one? Oh, and during this process, we
are *required* to remove all animals from the pasture, so as the machinery
won't scare them and make them *wild*. They *assure* us that we will be
paid for the acreage they take, as soon as the project is complete. Like
we had it for sale before hand or something............Everything I've
tried to do to prevent this, has turned into dead-ends. Frustrating! UGH!


What does your lawyer say about this? And, did you attend any town meetings
where this could have been discussed?



Ha, town meetings? let me tell you where those got me - NO WHERE! My
uncle is the town manager, his wife is the town secretary and thinks she
runs the whole town! They are upset that grandpa left the cows to me &
my kids, and not them..........you can guess the rest.

So far, we are having trouble finding a local lawyer who hasn't been in
my "aunt's" back pocket so to speak.

However, OTOH, I do have several circuit court judges who are my
friends, one of which is going over our case now. Hopefully, he can
refer us to someone who will take the case, or work on it himself.......

In the meantime, lots of prayer, looking for another pasture that we
might can rent for awhile, and trying to get some of the neighbors
around the pasture involved.

You don't think this has "politics" involved? Family politics are the worst
and most deadly form.
C

Cheryl Isaak wrote:
On 7/2/07 9:41 AM, in article , "rachael
simpson" wrote:

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"rachael simpson" wrote in message
...
Pennyaline wrote:
zxcvbob wrote:
*SNIP*
*snip*

You don't think this has "politics" involved? Family politics are the worst
and most deadly form.
C


AMEN!

rachael simpson wrote:
Pennyaline wrote:
zxcvbob wrote:
In this case, the "neighbor" is Olmsted County, MN. The person
living in the house (rented from the county) is not a problem. The
county itself is sending people out to spray.

The county is most likely immune from any civil lawsuits, small
claims or otherwise. I have to go after the applicator, or find a
criminal statute violated by the county.

I'll bet they're not immune. It used to be a given, but governments
big and small have been made to answer for their presumptive behaviors
lately. If they contracted with Chemlawn, they are responsible for
what Chemlawn does. F'rinstance, Comcast has a right of way through
the back of my property. Two years ago, they had to do excavations on
that right of way to do line upgrading. Comcast hired an outside
company to do the excavation and lay the line. When the work was done,
everybody pulled up and left and the back of my property was a
freakin' mess! They were just gone without a word, and when the yard
remained unchanged days later it seemed evident that they had no
intention of clearing up. There were tire tracks all over my yard from
their digging equipment, my back fence was pushed over, and huge clods
of dirt and sod were everywhere. They hadn't backfilled properly and
the trench line was a heaving lumpy mess. When I called Comcast about
it a few days later, they told me it wasn't their problem since the
"other company" did the work. I reminded them that the "other company"
was acting in Comcast's interest and under Comcast's direction and as
a result it was as if Comcast had done the work itself and was
responsible for cleaning it up. But to be on the safe side, I backed
it up with a letter from an attorney. The "other company" was out
there the next day leveling off the backfill, cleaning up the mess,
and lining the fence back up nice and straight.



BTW, it got interesting a couple of years ago when the house was
vacant one winter, and I called the sheriff and told him if I was
supposed to keep *my* sidewalk cleared, he needed to come out and
shovel *his*. (There was a huge snowstorm and the sidewalk went
unshoveled for a couple of days, in violation of a local ordinance.)
They sent someone out a couple of hours later.

As they should.


Here's one for you:

we own some land outside of a town near here. 20+ acres of pasture
land, currently occupied by 9 horses and 5 cows. NC DOT recently
decided that they want to take our pasture and run a *new* ditch thru
it. The overflow from an area pond runs thru the pasture in a little
stream and now they want to re-route it. We have been informed by local
government, that they are taking a little over 5 acres for this project,
right down the middle of the pasture, digging a trench, and lining it
with landscaping rocks. Do you know what effect that the rocks will
have on the horses feet?!? The way they want to fix it will almost
eliminate any water flow thru the pasture, thus having a bad effect on
the cows. For those who aren't ranchers on the group, the water is vital
to the cows in other ways than for drinking. Cows don't sweat, so they
stand in the water to cool themselves. The township and the county have
already approved this project. So how can we fight this one? Oh, and
during this process, we are *required* to remove all animals from the
pasture, so as the machinery won't scare them and make them *wild*. They
*assure* us that we will be paid for the acreage they take, as soon as
the project is complete. Like we had it for sale before hand or
something............Everything I've tried to do to prevent this, has
turned into dead-ends. Frustrating! UGH!


Where's their environmental impact study? Who knows what endangered
species of microscopic amphibians might be harmed if they reroute the
water? (basically, find all kinds of federal bullshit paperwork that
they are lacking, and sic the bureaucrats on them. The feds should be
able to tie it up for 10 years, although you might have trouble getting
their cooperation under the current administration. But if your lawyer
can find a sympathetic judge...

(I'm serious about the Environmental Impact Study)

They say they will pay *after* the project is finished? That doesn't
smell right.

I don't know where you live in, but there may be state water-rights laws
that give you some leverage.

Or you and a few buddies could just deny them access to the land, with a
Garands and a few cases of Greek or Korean surplus ammunition if you're
into that last stand sort of thing.

Bob

"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
Dave wrote:
"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
Sprayed broadleaf herbicide and who knows what else thru the chain
link fence from my neighbor's yard into my garden again. Killed my
squash, and the tomatillo closest to the fence looks stunted a bit.

Last time they did this they left a calling card. This time, I don't
know for /sure/ that it was them because there was no little sign left
in the yard. I'm gonna call the county Monday and find out who they
sent out to spray the fence line (the county owns the house) and then
complain to the EPA this time instead of complaining directly to
Chemlawn.

I don't think the EPA will yank their applicator's license, but there
ought to be a stiff fine for applying pesticides without following the
label restrictions.

Bob

You're in luck. According to a former town justice here, what the
chem-pigs did falls under the heading of civil trespass. That law
doesn't only apply to people entering property without authorization,
but also objects, animals and substances. Once you find out who the
chem-pigs were, call the town office and find out what's involved in
taking them to small claims court.

You may also want to tally up the hours you spent on the garden,
multiply by a reasonable number (say $175 per hour), and include that
in the claim. Finally, check with your state's environmental agency as
to whether there's a safe method for planting in that spot again. If it
involves new topsoil and hiring laborers, it gets lumped into the
claim. Finally, some judges will issue an injunction preventing any
further spraying within a certain distance of the fence line. The local
judge did that for me. It ***REQUIRED*** the police to arrest my
neighbor and her chem-pig applicator if she repeated her crime. She
never sprayed again.

In this case, the "neighbor" is Olmsted County, MN. The person living
in the house (rented from the county) is not a problem. The county
itself is sending people out to spray.

The county is most likely immune from any civil lawsuits, small claims
or otherwise. I have to go after the applicator, or find a criminal
statute violated by the county.



So, I guess Agent Orange on your children, nevermind your garden, and
pets is okay as long as a government entity is responsible for
subcontracting its application.


Is that really what you think I said? That's it's OK because the govt did
it?

Bob

"The county is most likely immune from any civil lawsuits, small claims or
otherwise."

Dave

Dave wrote:
"zxcvbob" wrote in message
Is that really what you think I said? That's it's OK because the govt did
it?

Bob

"The county is most likely immune from any civil lawsuits, small claims or
otherwise."

Dave

But he *did not* say that makes it all right.

Jan Flora wrote:
Gee, doing that in Alaska will get you in big trouble. The
legislature just passed a statute about pesticide application
without notification.

Correct in Utah as well. We live in a mosquito abatement area
(wetlands... in a high desert state yet!), and aerial pesticide spraying
happens every year. Well before spraying begins, all residents must be
notified of when and where spraying will done, and what agent will be
sprayed.


Some people are allergic to certain ag
chemicals, like me. (What's with people suddenly becoming
allergic to so many things these days? I can't even walk down
the laundry soap isle in the grocery store anymore, and I don't
have a bad case of "chemical sensitivity" or whatever they're
calling it this week.)

People are suddenly becoming sensitive to so many things because we are
exposed to so many things, much more than before. It's in everything we
eat, drink, wear and breathe.

"Dave" wrote in message
ink.net...
"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
Dave wrote:
"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
Sprayed broadleaf herbicide and who knows what else thru the chain
link fence from my neighbor's yard into my garden again. Killed my
squash, and the tomatillo closest to the fence looks stunted a bit.

Last time they did this they left a calling card. This time, I don't
know for /sure/ that it was them because there was no little sign
left in the yard. I'm gonna call the county Monday and find out who
they sent out to spray the fence line (the county owns the house) and
then complain to the EPA this time instead of complaining directly to
Chemlawn.

I don't think the EPA will yank their applicator's license, but there
ought to be a stiff fine for applying pesticides without following
the label restrictions.

Bob

You're in luck. According to a former town justice here, what the
chem-pigs did falls under the heading of civil trespass. That law
doesn't only apply to people entering property without authorization,
but also objects, animals and substances. Once you find out who the
chem-pigs were, call the town office and find out what's involved in
taking them to small claims court.

You may also want to tally up the hours you spent on the garden,
multiply by a reasonable number (say $175 per hour), and include that
in the claim. Finally, check with your state's environmental agency as
to whether there's a safe method for planting in that spot again. If
it involves new topsoil and hiring laborers, it gets lumped into the
claim. Finally, some judges will issue an injunction preventing any
further spraying within a certain distance of the fence line. The
local judge did that for me. It ***REQUIRED*** the police to arrest my
neighbor and her chem-pig applicator if she repeated her crime. She
never sprayed again.

In this case, the "neighbor" is Olmsted County, MN. The person living
in the house (rented from the county) is not a problem. The county
itself is sending people out to spray.

The county is most likely immune from any civil lawsuits, small claims
or otherwise. I have to go after the applicator, or find a criminal
statute violated by the county.



So, I guess Agent Orange on your children, nevermind your garden, and
pets is okay as long as a government entity is responsible for
subcontracting its application.


Is that really what you think I said? That's it's OK because the govt
did it?

Bob

"The county is most likely immune from any civil lawsuits, small claims or
otherwise."

Dave


That's now. Tomorrow is another story. And there's also the individual
person who operated the sprayer. If they own a home, the neighborly thing to
do would be to make them afraid they're going to lose it to settle the
lawsuit.......

Jan Flora wrote:
(What's with people suddenly becoming
allergic to so many things these days? I can't even walk down
the laundry soap isle in the grocery store anymore, and I don't
have a bad case of "chemical sensitivity" or whatever they're
calling it this week.)


Its the toxic crap they put in everything. Fragrances are an
unregulated industry, which is likely what's hitting you in the soap aisle.

Some of the chemicals they use are known sensitizers, ensuring that some
people are going to become allergic.