Marie Dodge said:

"Pat Kiewicz" wrote in message
...
Marie Dodge said:

They don't sell liquid seaweed where I live. I don't care to start
ordering
things online because the shipping is often as much as the items to be
shipped.

Yes, but some things are cheap at twice the price, and sometimes
shipping
is nowhere near equal to the cost of the item shipped (even these days).

Consider Maxicrop seaweed *powder* where you avoid paying to ship
water:

http://www.arbico-organics.com/1313001.html

Get it shipped by priority mail. It's cheaper.

The product is $14.75 and shipping is $11.50 = $27.25!

That much lasts me two or three years. (And my quoted shipping by
USPS was only $7.00.) It's equivalent to many *gallons* of liquid seaweed.

I wouldn't transplant anything without it. Greens up the occasional
plant that goes chlorotic. Promotes general vigor as a foliar feed.


(I would have recommended The Eclectic Gardener, as a satisfied
customer, but they are sold out of Maxicrop powder. )

http://www.eclectic-gardener.com/maxicroppowder.html


If I ever play and win the Lottery maybe I can afford some of this high
priced organic stuff.

If you gardened on a sand pit like mine, it wouldn't make sense to fertilize
any other way...rain will leach anything soluable right away, which is money
down the drain (almost literally).

My main fertilizer in the vegetable garden is alfalfa (pellets), supplemented
by Maxicrop and all the compost and mulch I can make from autumn
leaves collected all around the neighborhood. Still have some bags of
leaves way in the back from last fall, which will go into more batches of
compost as the sweetcorn stalks get pulled.

15 or so years ago I was able to give the veggie garden a heavy dose of
greensand, but I was lucky at the time to be able to buy it locally in 40
pound bags. Doubt if I could afford that now, as no one seems to carry
it in big bags anymore and the freight costs on that would be really
astronomical. I wish that weren't the case, though...


I buy this mail order *even though* I have seen liquid kelp on sale
locally, because it is so much less expensive (in the long run) to buy
the dry powder even considering shipping, and because the dry powder
is so much more convenient to store.

I'm in Lowe's and Home Depot regularly and yet haven't seen any of these
organic fertilizers. Perhaps there isn't enough call for them here. Or
they're so expensive people wont pay the price. Twice I bought the liquid
Iron and twice it turned into a tinny smelling liquid once opened, with
white stuff like scale in it at the bottom. That was when I switched to
Ironite.

That's the beauty of a dry powder. Sits there on the shelf so you can mix it
up as needed.


--
Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast)

After enlightenment, the laundry.

"Pat Kiewicz" wrote in message
...
Marie Dodge said:

"Pat Kiewicz" wrote in message
...
Marie Dodge said:

They don't sell liquid seaweed where I live. I don't care to start
ordering
things online because the shipping is often as much as the items to be
shipped.

Yes, but some things are cheap at twice the price, and sometimes
shipping
is nowhere near equal to the cost of the item shipped (even these days).

Consider Maxicrop seaweed *powder* where you avoid paying to ship
water:

http://www.arbico-organics.com/1313001.html

Get it shipped by priority mail. It's cheaper.

The product is $14.75 and shipping is $11.50 = $27.25!

That much lasts me two or three years. (And my quoted shipping by
USPS was only $7.00.) It's equivalent to many *gallons* of liquid
seaweed.

My quoted shipping was $11.50 cheapest way. You must live closer to the
place. How large is your garden and how often do you spray it?

I wouldn't transplant anything without it. Greens up the occasional
plant that goes chlorotic. Promotes general vigor as a foliar feed.


(I would have recommended The Eclectic Gardener, as a satisfied
customer, but they are sold out of Maxicrop powder. )

http://www.eclectic-gardener.com/maxicroppowder.html


If I ever play and win the Lottery maybe I can afford some of this high
priced organic stuff.

If you gardened on a sand pit like mine, it wouldn't make sense to
fertilize
any other way...rain will leach anything soluable right away, which is
money
down the drain (almost literally).

I understand. Where I live it's a poor droughty clay. We had to till in
loads and loads of organic matter to grow anything. It was forest when I
bought this land many years ago. It's only the last few years we're really
getting into vegetable gardening. I just started canning again this year.
Now that we're retired we have more time - but less money. We're living
on SS and the few extra bucks he makes helping out a friend once a week or
so. A a small savings account for emergency use. To someone working full
time, or your average Yuppie, the cost of organic stuff is affordable. To
the retired, unless they have "other income," it's just too darn expensive.


My main fertilizer in the vegetable garden is alfalfa (pellets),
supplemented
by Maxicrop and all the compost and mulch I can make from autumn
leaves collected all around the neighborhood. Still have some bags of
leaves way in the back from last fall, which will go into more batches of
compost as the sweetcorn stalks get pulled.
15 or so years ago I was able to give the veggie garden a heavy dose of
greensand, but I was lucky at the time to be able to buy it locally in 40
pound bags. Doubt if I could afford that now, as no one seems to carry
it in big bags anymore and the freight costs on that would be really
astronomical. I wish that weren't the case, though...

I have the same problem! I have to have everything shipped and that is not
possible anymore. I even had to order a canner through Ace Hardware in town.
I was surprised to find canning jars at Wal*Mart. This area of my county is
no longer agricultural. Farmers give up in disgust to droughts and pest
invasions and the high cost of fuel and pesticides. Where farms once were I
see subdivisions full of Yuppies. Cattle farms have turned into huge
shopping Malls. The stores cater to them... not to us looking for organic
garden products. These newcomers hire Lawn Services and never dirty their
hands.


I'm in Lowe's and Home Depot regularly and yet haven't seen any of these
organic fertilizers. Perhaps there isn't enough call for them here. Or
they're so expensive people wont pay the price. Twice I bought the liquid
Iron and twice it turned into a tinny smelling liquid once opened, with
white stuff like scale in it at the bottom. That was when I switched to
Ironite.

That's the beauty of a dry powder. Sits there on the shelf so you can mix
it
up as needed.

How large is your garden and how often do you spray it?



--
Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast)

After enlightenment, the laundry.

"Marie Dodge" wrote

"Steve Young" bowtieATbrightdslDOTnet wrote

"Marie Dodge" wrote

"Pat Kiewicz" wrote

Marie Dodge said:

They don't sell liquid seaweed where I live. I don't care to start
ordering things online because the shipping is often as much
as the items to be shipped.

Try nematodes for that relationship, then try finding live ones locally

For what relationship? ???

The relationship between product cost and shipping. You seem to refuse to
pay shipping, yet willing to spend for a wrong product. Example: Pat tried
to help you below, but something was wrong that

Yes, but some things are cheap at twice the price, and sometimes
shipping is nowhere near equal to the cost of the item shipped (even
these days).

Consider Maxicrop seaweed *powder* where you avoid paying to ship
water:

http://www.arbico-organics.com/1313001.html

Get it shipped by priority mail. It's cheaper.

The product is $14.75 and shipping is $11.50 = $27.25!

(I would have recommended The Eclectic Gardener, as a satisfied
customer, but they are sold out of Maxicrop powder. )
http://www.eclectic-gardener.com/maxicroppowder.html

If I ever play and win the Lottery maybe I can afford some of this high
priced organic stuff.

oh poor me
I guess you'll just have to kick back and retire from gardening.

Why should I do that simply because I can't afford the things YOU can?
Clue #1 - Not everyone has your income. :-)

You're joking? We are trying to teach you cheaper-better but you are
recalcitrant. Nothing works but what you have your mind set on

Here we are, off to Lowes again
I'm in Lowe's and Home Depot regularly and yet haven't seen any of these
organic fertilizers. Perhaps there isn't enough call for them here. Or
they're so expensive people wont pay the price. Twice I bought the
liquid Iron and twice it turned into a tinny smelling liquid once
opened, with white stuff like scale in it at the bottom. That was when
I switched to Ironite.

You're wanting to buy the wrong stuff at the wrong places and then
disappointed that you can't, or you get overcharged

I can only shop at the stores that are here.

Where? 100 feet from your front door?

I've given you leads and links to many.

There's a nursery that carries bone and blood meal and I think they still
have Fish Emulsion. It would be several hundred dollars to purchase
enough for our gardens. People are not buying these high priced items.
They're going for the bags of General Fertilizer and Ironite.

Probably because they are not familiar with the chemistry. Does that mean
you have to use it too?

What did you find out about the other places I pointed you to? How was
talking with Eric?

As others have pointed out, your problem probably is not an iron deficiency.
I agree, it's more likely a magnesium deficiency coupled with a nitrogen
deficiency as the summer wears on and the soil gets dry. Magnesium is
required for iron absorption. But hell, heap on the Ironite, at least you
can find that with your eyes closed and you'll feel better that you're doing
something.

Sprinkle some Epsom salt, rather than Ironite. Water it in and I'll bet
you'll see the difference this year. Prolly within a week or two.

Steve Young

"Steve Young" bowtieATbrightdslDOTnet wrote in message
...
"Marie Dodge" wrote

"Steve Young" bowtieATbrightdslDOTnet wrote

"Marie Dodge" wrote

"Pat Kiewicz" wrote

Marie Dodge said:

They don't sell liquid seaweed where I live. I don't care to start
ordering things online because the shipping is often as much
as the items to be shipped.

Try nematodes for that relationship, then try finding live ones locally

For what relationship? ???

The relationship between product cost and shipping. You seem to refuse to
pay shipping, yet willing to spend for a wrong product. Example: Pat tried
to help you below, but something was wrong that

Nothing was wrong with it. I didn't say anything was "wrong" with it.


Yes, but some things are cheap at twice the price, and sometimes
shipping is nowhere near equal to the cost of the item shipped (even
these days).

Consider Maxicrop seaweed *powder* where you avoid paying to ship
water:

http://www.arbico-organics.com/1313001.html

Get it shipped by priority mail. It's cheaper.

The product is $14.75 and shipping is $11.50 = $27.25!

(I would have recommended The Eclectic Gardener, as a satisfied
customer, but they are sold out of Maxicrop powder. )
http://www.eclectic-gardener.com/maxicroppowder.html

If I ever play and win the Lottery maybe I can afford some of this high
priced organic stuff.

oh poor me
I guess you'll just have to kick back and retire from gardening.

Why should I do that simply because I can't afford the things YOU can?
Clue #1 - Not everyone has your income. :-)

You're joking? We are trying to teach you cheaper-better but you are
recalcitrant. Nothing works but what you have your mind set on

I'm joking that I'm retired on a limited income? Why would I joke about
it?


Here we are, off to Lowes again
I'm in Lowe's and Home Depot regularly and yet haven't seen any of
these
organic fertilizers. Perhaps there isn't enough call for them here. Or
they're so expensive people wont pay the price. Twice I bought the
liquid Iron and twice it turned into a tinny smelling liquid once
opened, with white stuff like scale in it at the bottom. That was when
I switched to Ironite.

You're wanting to buy the wrong stuff at the wrong places and then
disappointed that you can't, or you get overcharged

I can only shop at the stores that are here.

Where? 100 feet from your front door?

Yes! The store must be in my driveway. ;-)


I've given you leads and links to many.

Haven't we been through this before? If someone dies and leaves me an
inheritance I'll buy expensive stuff and have it shipped.


There's a nursery that carries bone and blood meal and I think they still
have Fish Emulsion. It would be several hundred dollars to purchase
enough for our gardens. People are not buying these high priced items.
They're going for the bags of General Fertilizer and Ironite.

Probably because they are not familiar with the chemistry. Does that mean
you have to use it too?

It means we can't afford expensive supplements plus shipping.


What did you find out about the other places I pointed you to? How was
talking with Eric?

I have no way to get to Eric's business so why call him? Would he trade me
some soil amendments for some boxes of left over yard sale stuff?

As others have pointed out, your problem probably is not an iron
deficiency.

The Soil Test Report didn't list Iron this time so I don't know. The soil PH
is 7 and that was good. The Report says to add 5 lbs Ammonium Nitrate per
1000 sq. ft before planting (my fall garden).

I agree, it's more likely a magnesium deficiency coupled with a nitrogen
deficiency as the summer wears on and the soil gets dry. Magnesium is
required for iron absorption. But hell, heap on the Ironite, at least you
can find that with your eyes closed and you'll feel better that you're
doing
something.

I don't know who "heaped" it on, do you? 1 lb is "heaping" it on? You're
WRONG about Magnesium. It's 64+ so not recommended I add more.

Sprinkle some Epsom salt, rather than Ironite. Water it in and I'll bet
you'll see the difference this year. Prolly within a week or two.

WRONG!!!! I am not to add Magnesium. Only nitrogen was low as I suspected.


Steve Young

"Marie Dodge" wrote in message

I understand. Where I live it's a poor droughty clay.

???? By that do you mean clay that is/was drought affected?

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
...
"Marie Dodge" wrote in message

I understand. Where I live it's a poor droughty clay.

???? By that do you mean clay that is/was drought affected?

It called "droughty" because it doesn't hold moisture unless loads and loads
of organic matter are incorporated, which we do before using a spot for
gardening. It's a fine clay that's like powder. When dry it's like concrete.
It's really crappy soil. But once organic matter is incorporated and it's
fertilized, the plants grow like crazy if given enough moisture.

Marie Dodge said:



"Pat Kiewicz" wrote in message
...

That's the beauty of a dry powder. Sits there on the shelf so you can
mix it up as needed.

How large is your garden and how often do you spray it?


Let's see... I used to use more Maxicrop than I do now. After 18
seasons of adding compost, mulch, and organic fertilizers, the soil
is still very sandy, but much improved from what it was, at least in
the top 18 inches. Below that, it's pure sand for at least 10 feet,
probably more. (I live on top of a fossil sand dune, which was
on the shoreline from thousands of years ago when Lake Erie-to-be
was much bigger.)

A good soak at transplant (I transplant everything other than corn,
squash, and beans). A light sprinkle a week or so later.

One or two foliar sprays during the season, all over. (This used
to be more frequently done. I've cut back.)

Spot treatments for any plants that "look like they need it."

I have 18 intensively planted beds (each roughly 4 by 8 feet) plus
one long narrow bed (20 by 3 feet), plus a herb area, and also
two beds of raspberries. Several of the garden beds get both
spring and fall crops. It's all worked by hand with a broad fork
(no power tillers).

The flower gardens (there are a bunch of them) might get one
spray in the spring, and any transplants get the same treatment
as the veggie transplants.

The garden is looking a bit sad right now, as we are hurting for
rain. Can't fix that with seaweed spray...
--
Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast)

After enlightenment, the laundry.

Would anyone like some cheese to go with the whine?

"Pat Kiewicz" wrote in message
...
Marie Dodge said:



"Pat Kiewicz" wrote in message
...

That's the beauty of a dry powder. Sits there on the shelf so you can
mix it up as needed.

How large is your garden and how often do you spray it?


Let's see... I used to use more Maxicrop than I do now. After 18
seasons of adding compost, mulch, and organic fertilizers, the soil
is still very sandy, but much improved from what it was, at least in
the top 18 inches. Below that, it's pure sand for at least 10 feet,
probably more. (I live on top of a fossil sand dune, which was
on the shoreline from thousands of years ago when Lake Erie-to-be
was much bigger.)

A good soak at transplant (I transplant everything other than corn,
squash, and beans). A light sprinkle a week or so later.

One or two foliar sprays during the season, all over. (This used
to be more frequently done. I've cut back.)

Spot treatments for any plants that "look like they need it."

I have 18 intensively planted beds (each roughly 4 by 8 feet) plus
one long narrow bed (20 by 3 feet), plus a herb area, and also
two beds of raspberries. Several of the garden beds get both
spring and fall crops. It's all worked by hand with a broad fork
(no power tillers).

The flower gardens (there are a bunch of them) might get one
spray in the spring, and any transplants get the same treatment
as the veggie transplants.

The garden is looking a bit sad right now, as we are hurting for
rain. Can't fix that with seaweed spray...
--
Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast)

After enlightenment, the laundry.

In article ,
"Steve Peek" wrote:

Would anyone like some cheese to go with the whine?


I didn't hear a whine. I heard a gardener talking about gardening
experiences. But when you came in, the cheese was loud and clear.

You should chat up the Purulent Primrose since you both seem to enjoy
gratuitous sarcasm and misstatements.
--

Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1009916.html

Billy said:


In article 08-dnaFU_Ky5rS3VnZ2dnUVZ_u-
,
"Steve Peek" wrote:

Would anyone like some cheese to go with the whine?


I didn't hear a whine. I heard a gardener talking about gardening
experiences. But when you came in, the cheese was loud and clear.

I thought the weather was always safe to talk (or grumble) about....


--
Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast)

After enlightenment, the laundry.

Sorry Pat, I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to Marie's constant
whine & her inability to accept the help she asked for.

"Pat Kiewicz" wrote in message
...
Billy said:


In article 08-dnaFU_Ky5rS3VnZ2dnUVZ_u-
,
"Steve Peek" wrote:

Would anyone like some cheese to go with the whine?


I didn't hear a whine. I heard a gardener talking about gardening
experiences. But when you came in, the cheese was loud and clear.

I thought the weather was always safe to talk (or grumble) about....


--
Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast)

After enlightenment, the laundry.

On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 08:29:53 -0400, Pat Kiewicz wrote:

I thought the weather was always safe to talk (or grumble) about....


That was before the weather became political.

Pat Kiewicz wrote:
Marie Dodge said:


"Pat Kiewicz" wrote in message
...

That's the beauty of a dry powder. Sits there on the shelf so you can
mix it up as needed.
How large is your garden and how often do you spray it?


Let's see... I used to use more Maxicrop than I do now. After 18
seasons of adding compost, mulch, and organic fertilizers, the soil
is still very sandy, but much improved from what it was, at least in
the top 18 inches. Below that, it's pure sand for at least 10 feet,
probably more. (I live on top of a fossil sand dune, which was
on the shoreline from thousands of years ago when Lake Erie-to-be
was much bigger.)



Drip irrigation might work well there. The best garden I ever had was
in central Texas in 100+ degree heat and thin poor soil. I'd been
struggling to garden there for several years, and finally I set up an
inexpensive drip irrigation system and mulched everything that wasn't
leafy enough to thoroughly shade the ground itself. The garden just
exploded (in a good way.)

Bob