In a response to a question concerning blue in hydrangea's, David J. Bockman
so wisely remarked:


"David J Bockman" wrote
inmessage ...

You might be battling a high pH soil, in which case long term acidifying
would mean laying down powdered aluminum sulphate (I like straight iron
sulphate), along with an acidifying fertilizer like Espoma's Hollytone.

The coffee grounds can only help.



"I planted a couple Nikko blue hydrangeas two years ago, but the flowers
haven't been blue (they were more of a pinkish white). I watered them with
an aluminum sulfate solution this spring and last fall to try to make the
flowers blue this year. Now, I'm considering adding old coffee grounds to
the soil -- Will this counteract the aluminum sulfate, or will it help to
make the flowers blue?

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.



Suzanne "





Ok Dave, since you've got yer stuff together on the fertilizers, I need to
ask YOU a question.........my friend whose been in landscaping for years now
(a couple of decades) has recently been fiddling around with mixing Ironite
that Lowe's sells in granular form (a handful per container, or mixing soils
and some ironite up with the soils and planting perennials). She convinced
me to use it myself when I saw the massive improvement in the size and
health of her plants in just a year. If I'm only using this in my
perennials (the bag says NO BURN) why will they grow lush and larger? I have
red clay soil and I've ammended with compost, worm soil, and cheap topsoil.

I've done a search in my gardening books and nothing comes up on IRONITE.
If you saw the results that Karol had with bareroot plants that were just 18
months old, you'd have converted to Ironite in the soil too.
I appreciate the trouble you're going to on this. I need to learn as much
as possible, and before I start mixing massive amounts of soils and Ironite
I need to make sure it won't have long term effects on my plants and
possibly us. If it's safe, just let me know....
madgardener still learning about this whole thing

On Mon, 03 May 2004 23:47:51 -0400, madgardener wrote:

Ok Dave, since you've got yer stuff together on the fertilizers, I need to
ask YOU a question.........my friend whose been in landscaping for years now
(a couple of decades) has recently been fiddling around with mixing Ironite
that Lowe's sells in granular form (a handful per container, or mixing soils
and some ironite up with the soils and planting perennials). She convinced
me to use it myself when I saw the massive improvement in the size and
health of her plants in just a year. If I'm only using this in my
perennials (the bag says NO BURN) why will they grow lush and larger? I have
red clay soil and I've ammended with compost, worm soil, and cheap topsoil.

I've done a search in my gardening books and nothing comes up on IRONITE.
If you saw the results that Karol had with bareroot plants that were just 18
months old, you'd have converted to Ironite in the soil too.
I appreciate the trouble you're going to on this. I need to learn as much
as possible, and before I start mixing massive amounts of soils and Ironite
I need to make sure it won't have long term effects on my plants and
possibly us. If it's safe, just let me know....
madgardener still learning about this whole thing

Sorry for steping in on this conversation, but I have at least two
customers a year asking about ironite. I had to field so many questions on
ironite that I researched it. My findings were a bit unsettling to say the
least. Ironite is mine waste from the Iron King Mine in Arizona.
http://www.envirolaw.org/poison.html

You can look up the metal contents he
http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/Fertilize...B/Product1.asp

In my part of the world there are many locals with blue hydrangeas whose
neighbours just next door have all shades of red due to soil acidity and
they swear its all
due to the generous quantity of nails they put under when planting which
have rusted. Red to blue, blue to red, this is a 'perennial problem' of
trying to be different which we are all guilty of at one time or another.
But one thing is for sure wherever we live, and whatever soil conditions
nature provides its invariably more costly to go against her rather than
with her.
Regards
Mike Gilmore
www.winsfordwalledgarden.freeserve.co.uk


"Timothy" wrote in message
s.com...
On Mon, 03 May 2004 23:47:51 -0400, madgardener wrote:

Ok Dave, since you've got yer stuff together on the fertilizers, I need
to
ask YOU a question.........my friend whose been in landscaping for years
now
(a couple of decades) has recently been fiddling around with mixing
Ironite
that Lowe's sells in granular form (a handful per container, or mixing
soils
and some ironite up with the soils and planting perennials). She
convinced
me to use it myself when I saw the massive improvement in the size and
health of her plants in just a year. If I'm only using this in my
perennials (the bag says NO BURN) why will they grow lush and larger? I
have
red clay soil and I've ammended with compost, worm soil, and cheap
topsoil.

I've done a search in my gardening books and nothing comes up on
IRONITE.
If you saw the results that Karol had with bareroot plants that were
just 18
months old, you'd have converted to Ironite in the soil too.
I appreciate the trouble you're going to on this. I need to learn as
much
as possible, and before I start mixing massive amounts of soils and
Ironite
I need to make sure it won't have long term effects on my plants and
possibly us. If it's safe, just let me know....
madgardener still learning about this whole thing

Sorry for steping in on this conversation, but I have at least two
customers a year asking about ironite. I had to field so many questions on
ironite that I researched it. My findings were a bit unsettling to say the
least. Ironite is mine waste from the Iron King Mine in Arizona.
http://www.envirolaw.org/poison.html

You can look up the metal contents he
http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/Fertilize...B/Product1.asp

THANKS!!! I've gone to the site and I'm appalled at this. I'm getting rid
of my bag today.....NOW.
"Timothy" wrote in message
s.com...
On Mon, 03 May 2004 23:47:51 -0400, madgardener wrote:

Ok Dave, since you've got yer stuff together on the fertilizers, I need
to
ask YOU a question.........my friend whose been in landscaping for years
now
(a couple of decades) has recently been fiddling around with mixing
Ironite
that Lowe's sells in granular form (a handful per container, or mixing
soils
and some ironite up with the soils and planting perennials). She
convinced
me to use it myself when I saw the massive improvement in the size and
health of her plants in just a year. If I'm only using this in my
perennials (the bag says NO BURN) why will they grow lush and larger? I
have
red clay soil and I've ammended with compost, worm soil, and cheap
topsoil.

I've done a search in my gardening books and nothing comes up on
IRONITE.
If you saw the results that Karol had with bareroot plants that were
just 18
months old, you'd have converted to Ironite in the soil too.
I appreciate the trouble you're going to on this. I need to learn as
much
as possible, and before I start mixing massive amounts of soils and
Ironite
I need to make sure it won't have long term effects on my plants and
possibly us. If it's safe, just let me know....
madgardener still learning about this whole thing

Sorry for steping in on this conversation, but I have at least two
customers a year asking about ironite. I had to field so many questions on
ironite that I researched it. My findings were a bit unsettling to say the
least. Ironite is mine waste from the Iron King Mine in Arizona.
http://www.envirolaw.org/poison.html

You can look up the metal contents he
http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/Fertilize...B/Product1.asp

"madgardener" wrote in message
...
THANKS!!! I've gone to the site and I'm appalled at this. I'm getting rid
of my bag today.....NOW.
"Timothy" wrote in message
s.com...
On Mon, 03 May 2004 23:47:51 -0400, madgardener wrote:

Ok Dave, since you've got yer stuff together on the fertilizers, I
need
to
ask YOU a question.........my friend whose been in landscaping for
years
now
(a couple of decades) has recently been fiddling around with mixing
Ironite
that Lowe's sells in granular form (a handful per container, or mixing
soils
and some ironite up with the soils and planting perennials). She
convinced
me to use it myself when I saw the massive improvement in the size and
health of her plants in just a year. If I'm only using this in my
perennials (the bag says NO BURN) why will they grow lush and larger?
I
have
red clay soil and I've ammended with compost, worm soil, and cheap
topsoil.

I've done a search in my gardening books and nothing comes up on
IRONITE.
If you saw the results that Karol had with bareroot plants that were
just 18
months old, you'd have converted to Ironite in the soil too.
I appreciate the trouble you're going to on this. I need to learn as
much
as possible, and before I start mixing massive amounts of soils and
Ironite
I need to make sure it won't have long term effects on my plants and
possibly us. If it's safe, just let me know....
madgardener still learning about this whole thing

Sorry for steping in on this conversation, but I have at least two
customers a year asking about ironite. I had to field so many questions
on
ironite that I researched it. My findings were a bit unsettling to say
the
least. Ironite is mine waste from the Iron King Mine in Arizona.
http://www.envirolaw.org/poison.html

You can look up the metal contents he
http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/Fertilize...B/Product1.asp

I apologize for not getting back to you sooner, Maddy, but when you
mentioned it to me, I remembered that one of my gardening friends said it
was horrible stuff. That's why I earlier cautioned you against using it. We
had company (not a good excuse) who consumed a lot of time. Sorry about
that! This group really did an excellent job!

John

http://www.epa.gov/epaoswer/hazwaste...iz/fert-fr.pdf

Federal Register / Vol. 67, No. 142 / Wednesday, July 24, 2002 / Rules and
Regulations, pg. 15

"IV. Mining Wastes Used To Make Fertilizers

In the preamble to the proposed rule, EPA discussed and requested comment as
to the regulatory status of certain fertilizers that are made from mining
wastes which exhibit a hazardous characteristic (e.g., are toxic when tested
according to the TCLP, cited earlier).
One particular iron fertilizer product, which is widely marketed to
consumers EPA continues to believe that concerns regarding exposure to
arsenic in Ironite products are worthy of serious consideration,
particularly since it is a widely marketed consumer product intended for use
by home gardeners and others. As such, the potential for misuse and/or
accidental exposure (especially to children) cannot be discounted. At the
same time, however, we recognize that there are technical issues associated
with estimating risks from exposure to contaminants in Ironite that merit
further study before the Agency can reach any definitive conclusions as to
the potential risks of the product. For example, there has been some
controversy regarding the bio-availability of the arsenic and lead compounds
in Ironite and Ironite-amended soils."

Dave

"madgardener" wrote in message
...
THANKS!!! I've gone to the site and I'm appalled at this. I'm getting rid
of my bag today.....NOW.
"Timothy" wrote in message
s.com...
On Mon, 03 May 2004 23:47:51 -0400, madgardener wrote:

Ok Dave, since you've got yer stuff together on the fertilizers, I
need
to
ask YOU a question.........my friend whose been in landscaping for
years
now
(a couple of decades) has recently been fiddling around with mixing
Ironite
that Lowe's sells in granular form (a handful per container, or mixing
soils
and some ironite up with the soils and planting perennials). She
convinced
me to use it myself when I saw the massive improvement in the size and
health of her plants in just a year. If I'm only using this in my
perennials (the bag says NO BURN) why will they grow lush and larger?
I
have
red clay soil and I've ammended with compost, worm soil, and cheap
topsoil.

I've done a search in my gardening books and nothing comes up on
IRONITE.
If you saw the results that Karol had with bareroot plants that were
just 18
months old, you'd have converted to Ironite in the soil too.
I appreciate the trouble you're going to on this. I need to learn as
much
as possible, and before I start mixing massive amounts of soils and
Ironite
I need to make sure it won't have long term effects on my plants and
possibly us. If it's safe, just let me know....
madgardener still learning about this whole thing

Sorry for steping in on this conversation, but I have at least two
customers a year asking about ironite. I had to field so many questions
on
ironite that I researched it. My findings were a bit unsettling to say
the
least. Ironite is mine waste from the Iron King Mine in Arizona.
http://www.envirolaw.org/poison.html

You can look up the metal contents he
http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/Fertilize...B/Product1.asp

I have a box of Ironite that I'm trying to figure out how to get rid of.
I believe it has been banned for sale here in Minnesota for several
years, but I bought it about 5 years ago before I knew what it was.
There is no mention on the box about the heavy metals content.

The stuff is ground up mine tailings from a toxic waste site in Arizona.
The arsenic and lead is probably bound up and not bioavailable, but if
so, the iron is also bound up and not available. It's not worth taking
a chance and contaminating ones soil with toxic heavy metals.

For that hydrangea or azalea, just use copperas (ferrous sulfate,) or
sulfur, or a little aluminum sulfate as an acidifier. At least you know
what's in them.

Best regards,
Bob

I have a box of Ironite that I'm trying to figure out how to get rid of.
I believe it has been banned for sale here in Minnesota for several
years, but I bought it about 5 years ago before I knew what it was.
There is no mention on the box about the heavy metals content.

The stuff is ground up mine tailings from a toxic waste site in Arizona.
The arsenic and lead is probably bound up and not bioavailable, but if
so, the iron is also bound up and not available. It's not worth taking
a chance and contaminating ones soil with toxic heavy metals.

For that hydrangea or azalea, just use copperas (ferrous sulfate,) or
sulfur, or a little aluminum sulfate as an acidifier. At least you know
what's in them.

Best regards,
Bob

I have a box of Ironite that I'm trying to figure out how to get rid of.
I believe it has been banned for sale here in Minnesota for several
years, but I bought it about 5 years ago before I knew what it was.
There is no mention on the box about the heavy metals content.

The stuff is ground up mine tailings from a toxic waste site in Arizona.
The arsenic and lead is probably bound up and not bioavailable, but if
so, the iron is also bound up and not available. It's not worth taking
a chance and contaminating ones soil with toxic heavy metals.

For that hydrangea or azalea, just use copperas (ferrous sulfate,) or
sulfur, or a little aluminum sulfate as an acidifier. At least you know
what's in them.

Best regards,
Bob

I have a box of Ironite that I'm trying to figure out how to get rid of.
I believe it has been banned for sale here in Minnesota for several
years, but I bought it about 5 years ago before I knew what it was.
There is no mention on the box about the heavy metals content.

The stuff is ground up mine tailings from a toxic waste site in Arizona.
The arsenic and lead is probably bound up and not bioavailable, but if
so, the iron is also bound up and not available. It's not worth taking
a chance and contaminating ones soil with toxic heavy metals.

For that hydrangea or azalea, just use copperas (ferrous sulfate,) or
sulfur, or a little aluminum sulfate as an acidifier. At least you know
what's in them.

Best regards,
Bob

I have a box of Ironite that I'm trying to figure out how to get rid of.
I believe it has been banned for sale here in Minnesota for several
years, but I bought it about 5 years ago before I knew what it was.
There is no mention on the box about the heavy metals content.

The stuff is ground up mine tailings from a toxic waste site in Arizona.
The arsenic and lead is probably bound up and not bioavailable, but if
so, the iron is also bound up and not available. It's not worth taking
a chance and contaminating ones soil with toxic heavy metals.

For that hydrangea or azalea, just use copperas (ferrous sulfate,) or
sulfur, or a little aluminum sulfate as an acidifier. At least you know
what's in them.

Best regards,
Bob

I have a box of Ironite that I'm trying to figure out how to get rid of.
I believe it has been banned for sale here in Minnesota for several
years, but I bought it about 5 years ago before I knew what it was.
There is no mention on the box about the heavy metals content.

The stuff is ground up mine tailings from a toxic waste site in Arizona.
The arsenic and lead is probably bound up and not bioavailable, but if
so, the iron is also bound up and not available. It's not worth taking
a chance and contaminating ones soil with toxic heavy metals.

For that hydrangea or azalea, just use copperas (ferrous sulfate,) or
sulfur, or a little aluminum sulfate as an acidifier. At least you know
what's in them.

Best regards,
Bob

I have a box of Ironite that I'm trying to figure out how to get rid of.
I believe it has been banned for sale here in Minnesota for several
years, but I bought it about 5 years ago before I knew what it was.
There is no mention on the box about the heavy metals content.

The stuff is ground up mine tailings from a toxic waste site in Arizona.
The arsenic and lead is probably bound up and not bioavailable, but if
so, the iron is also bound up and not available. It's not worth taking
a chance and contaminating ones soil with toxic heavy metals.

For that hydrangea or azalea, just use copperas (ferrous sulfate,) or
sulfur, or a little aluminum sulfate as an acidifier. At least you know
what's in them.

Best regards,
Bob

I have a box of Ironite that I'm trying to figure out how to get rid of.
I believe it has been banned for sale here in Minnesota for several
years, but I bought it about 5 years ago before I knew what it was.
There is no mention on the box about the heavy metals content.

The stuff is ground up mine tailings from a toxic waste site in Arizona.
The arsenic and lead is probably bound up and not bioavailable, but if
so, the iron is also bound up and not available. It's not worth taking
a chance and contaminating ones soil with toxic heavy metals.

For that hydrangea or azalea, just use copperas (ferrous sulfate,) or
sulfur, or a little aluminum sulfate as an acidifier. At least you know
what's in them.

Best regards,
Bob

I have a box of Ironite that I'm trying to figure out how to get rid of.
I believe it has been banned for sale here in Minnesota for several
years, but I bought it about 5 years ago before I knew what it was.
There is no mention on the box about the heavy metals content.

The stuff is ground up mine tailings from a toxic waste site in Arizona.
The arsenic and lead is probably bound up and not bioavailable, but if
so, the iron is also bound up and not available. It's not worth taking
a chance and contaminating ones soil with toxic heavy metals.

For that hydrangea or azalea, just use copperas (ferrous sulfate,) or
sulfur, or a little aluminum sulfate as an acidifier. At least you know
what's in them.

Best regards,
Bob