I don't remember exactly what lead me to this idea, but the
conversation was centered around the impending and inevitable
breackdown in society. The thought occurred to me, "What will happen
when the trucks stop coming?"

Those trucks, of course, are the big rigs that constantly replenish
our local store shelves with the sustanence we require. "Oh crap," I
thought to myself, "we're totally screwed!" Thus was sparked my
interest in sustainable agriculture. This was only a few months ago,
sometime around early February, and, at that time, I knew little to
nothing about gardening or agriculture on a large scale. I started
out reading anything I could find on the Web about gardening. After
eventually stumbling upon some literature on permaculture, I decided
to focus on gardening techniques that would take only the inputs that
I had readily available. After all, the trucks aren't running, right?

So all of this is getting ahead of my first foray into the world of
gardening. I started out just ripping up some grass, putting some
seeds under the dirt, adding some water and waiting. This, I decided
later, wasn't probably the best way to start a garden, but it was an
exeriment after all. I had terrible problems with powdery mildew and
most of my plants failed to produce much, with the exception of
tomatoes, which produced abundantly.

I eventually stumbled upon these Usenet groups. I learned more than I
could have ever imagined about composting and was able to turn my
dried out ant hill of a compost pile into an organic matter decaying
machine. I also learned of the terrible plight of our honey bee
friends and much about the numerous native bees and how to make a more
favorable habitat for them.

Perhaps the most important thing that I learned from these groups is
that all my plants needs can be provided for by the flora and fauna
living in the soil, so long as I treat them properly and try to make
my garden into a place where these tiny creatures can thrive.

Out of time now, so I will finish this later.

There isn't much to my story so far. In my first spring and summer of
gardening I managed to produce maybe four zukes, some snap peas, an
abudance of tomatoes, two stunted little cukes, some tiny misshaped
greenbeans, basil and spearmint like crazy, and more okra than I knew
what to do with. Most of my failures, I think, were due to uneven
watering. In the beginning, I was using a regular lawn sprinkler. Many
people in these forums suggested using soaker hoses for a number of
reasons. I tried some of the cheap ones from Wally World, and have
used them with some success. Unfortunately, I won't be able to replace
these hoses if I find myself suddenly living in a third world country,
nor can I expect the municipal water system to continue functioning.
So one of my biggest projects in the near future will be to build a
rain water collection and drip irrigation system using materials that
can be obtained locally. I don't expect this to be easy.

I recently spread my first batch of finished compost over one of my
veggie beds and planted some green beans and bell peppers. The beans
were poking out of the soil by the third day and the pepper
transplants established themselves rather quickly.

I had some other plants growing in a variety of conditions. In one bed
of okra, for which I had no mulch, I had allowed an understory of some
of the less competitive weeds to grow up. These okra plants, despite
being blown over by a storm earlier in the season, were producing in
abundance.

In another bed, with only a thin layer of grass clippings as mulch, I
had more peppers and green beans with some parley and basil mixed in.
These plants were surviving, but the small amount of mulch allowed the
soil to dry out almost as fast as the bed with no mulch, where
everything struggled except for a few okra and two eggplants which
were just beginning to bud out.

This is where everything came to a crashing halt as a big, ugly storm
lashed my garden with 100+ mph winds and eventually dropped a large
tree on everything.

It's heartbreaking when things like that happen, but it also means you get
to start again and redesign your garden to be more productive. *I guess you
have to think in a permaculture way when these things happen and turn
problems into solutions.

Andi

Originally, I had envisioned a drip irrigation system made of dried
out gourds and native bamboo, held together with some vines and sealed
with a mud and clay mixture, like something out of Swiss Family
Robinson (its been a long time since I read that book), but that just
doesn't seem feasible. I haven't really researched it yet.

I really do hope society continues to function, as much as it can be
said to function, for quite some time because my experiments in
gardening are showing me how truly dependent I am on these crazy
people all around me. I think I should be studying some basic survival
skills, such as, how to identify edible native plants and how to
capture small animals with sticks and vines. That way I might have
some chance of surviving until I managed to get some crops harvested.
Of course, this raises all kinds of questions like, where would I get
seed in the first place, how would I keep roving bands of barbarians
from raiding my stores, and other such things. Seems that it might be
easier to help society come together and solve some of its
dysfunctions before everything comes crashing down. Truly, it is all
out of my hands and all of this is just some kind of crazy thought
experiment. I just have to keep praying that that Unknowable Essence
has great plans for us and wouldn't let anything too terrible happen,
of course, that may be just what we need. We won't know until it
happens and, even then, we won't likely know what is right in front of
us.

I'm not so much heartbroken over my garden. The dirt is still there
under all of that tree and I get more enjoyment from the work than the
results. I have really gained much in the grand scheme of things. Now
I am just looking for a good wood chipper.

On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 17:16:18 -0700, Mycosimian wrote:

I'm not so much heartbroken over my garden. The dirt is still there
under all of that tree and I get more enjoyment from the work than the
results. I have really gained much in the grand scheme of things. Now I
am just looking for a good wood chipper.

Mulch party.

"Mycosimian" wrote in message
...
snipped for brevity
Most of my failures, I think, were due to uneven
watering. In the beginning, I was using a regular lawn sprinkler. Many
people in these forums suggested using soaker hoses for a number of
reasons. I tried some of the cheap ones from Wally World, and have
used them with some success. Unfortunately, I won't be able to replace
these hoses if I find myself suddenly living in a third world country,
nor can I expect the municipal water system to continue functioning.
So one of my biggest projects in the near future will be to build a
rain water collection and drip irrigation system using materials that
can be obtained locally. I don't expect this to be easy.

Rain water collection is actually quite easy. Get yourself a tank and
redirect your down pipes to empty rain water into the tank from the roof of
your house. Most tanks have a tap at the bottom that you can connect a hose
to and you can then connect your soaker to or, if society does break down, a
back up plan of a watering can might be a good move.


This is where everything came to a crashing halt as a big, ugly storm
lashed my garden with 100+ mph winds and eventually dropped a large
tree on everything.

It's heartbreaking when things like that happen, but it also means you get
to start again and redesign your garden to be more productive. I guess you
have to think in a permaculture way when these things happen and turn
problems into solutions.

Andi

"Mycosimian" wrote in message
...
I don't remember exactly what lead me to this idea, but the
conversation was centered around the impending and inevitable
breackdown in society. The thought occurred to me, "What will happen
when the trucks stop coming?"

Those trucks, of course, are the big rigs that constantly replenish
our local store shelves with the sustanence we require. "Oh crap," I
thought to myself, "we're totally screwed!" Thus was sparked my
interest in sustainable agriculture. This was only a few months ago,
sometime around early February, and, at that time, I knew little to
nothing about gardening or agriculture on a large scale. I started
out reading anything I could find on the Web about gardening. After
eventually stumbling upon some literature on permaculture, I decided
to focus on gardening techniques that would take only the inputs that
I had readily available. After all, the trucks aren't running, right?

So all of this is getting ahead of my first foray into the world of
gardening. I started out just ripping up some grass, putting some
seeds under the dirt, adding some water and waiting. This, I decided
later, wasn't probably the best way to start a garden, but it was an
exeriment after all. I had terrible problems with powdery mildew and
most of my plants failed to produce much, with the exception of
tomatoes, which produced abundantly.

I eventually stumbled upon these Usenet groups. I learned more than I
could have ever imagined about composting and was able to turn my
dried out ant hill of a compost pile into an organic matter decaying
machine. I also learned of the terrible plight of our honey bee
friends and much about the numerous native bees and how to make a more
favorable habitat for them.

Perhaps the most important thing that I learned from these groups is
that all my plants needs can be provided for by the flora and fauna
living in the soil, so long as I treat them properly and try to make
my garden into a place where these tiny creatures can thrive.

Out of time now, so I will finish this later.

I take it you're talking about a general sustenance garden. You touched
upon some things like water supply in subsequent replies to yourself. Rain
water retention won't cut it in a drought period. Those with their own
wells rely on an electrical supply outside their control. Doubtful if they
have pump and piping replacements on hand, or means of digging their own
well. Reliance on gasoline or other fueled equipment might be foolhardy if
such fuel becomes too scarce. Some of this can be addressed by doing things
manually without aid of powered equipment. Canning may get one by if the
crop fails one year. Certainly can't be a problem that is addressed with
pure rationalization, mostly hard work in the end.

Weather conditions such as high winds, drought, excessive rain and flooding
are beyond control.
--
Dave

On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 21:34:42 -0700 (PDT), Mycosimian
wrote:

I don't remember exactly what lead me to this idea, but the
conversation was centered around the impending and inevitable
breackdown in society. The thought occurred to me, "What will happen
when the trucks stop coming?"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dies_the_Fire


http://www.amazon.com/Dies-Fire-S-M-.../dp/0451459792


.....iffen you're into that alternate history stuff.



Penelope
--
"Maybe you'd like to ask the Wizard for a heart."
"ElissaAnn"

On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 21:34:42 -0700 (PDT), Mycosimian
wrote:

I don't remember exactly what lead me to this idea, but the
conversation was centered around the impending and inevitable
breackdown in society. The thought occurred to me, "What will happen
when the trucks stop coming?"

Those trucks, of course, are the big rigs that constantly replenish
our local store shelves with the sustanence we require. "Oh crap," I
thought to myself, "we're totally screwed!" Thus was sparked my
interest in sustainable agriculture. This was only a few months ago,
sometime around early February, and, at that time, I knew little to
nothing about gardening or agriculture on a large scale. I started
out reading anything I could find on the Web about gardening. After
eventually stumbling upon some literature on permaculture, I decided
to focus on gardening techniques that would take only the inputs that
I had readily available. After all, the trucks aren't running, right?

So all of this is getting ahead of my first foray into the world of
gardening. I started out just ripping up some grass, putting some
seeds under the dirt, adding some water and waiting. This, I decided
later, wasn't probably the best way to start a garden, but it was an
exeriment after all. I had terrible problems with powdery mildew and
most of my plants failed to produce much, with the exception of
tomatoes, which produced abundantly.

I eventually stumbled upon these Usenet groups. I learned more than I
could have ever imagined about composting and was able to turn my
dried out ant hill of a compost pile into an organic matter decaying
machine. I also learned of the terrible plight of our honey bee
friends and much about the numerous native bees and how to make a more
favorable habitat for them.

Perhaps the most important thing that I learned from these groups is
that all my plants needs can be provided for by the flora and fauna
living in the soil, so long as I treat them properly and try to make
my garden into a place where these tiny creatures can thrive.

Out of time now, so I will finish this later.


If you are serious about having a garden, contact the extension agent
in your area. They have information the pertains to your area, such
as what varieties of plants do well in your area. If you live in
Canada information from someone in Hawaii is probably not going to be
a lot of help. Some of the information you get from Usenet is very
good and some is not. Unless you have spent time in a group and know
something about the subject, you have no real idea who knows what they
are talking about.

I recently downloaded a 20+ page booklet "Home Vegetable Gardening"
that is published by my state extension service. It not only lists
varieties that do well but they also have a plan for a garden that
will feed 2 people for a year, when to plant, how to plant various
things and other information. I have been gardening for many years
and I found lots of good information and ideas in the booklet.

I suggest that you go to you local extension office and get to know
the extension agent or at least get information from their Web site.
You will get expert information for your area. It is better to get
the correct information early rather than having several years of poor
crops and having to break your bad habits.

http://www.csrees.usda.gov/Extension/index.html

On Sep 23, 8:18 am, The Cook wrote:
On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 21:34:42 -0700 (PDT), Mycosimian
snip

I suggest that you go to you local extension office and get to know
the extension agent or at least get information from their Web site.
You will get expert information for your area. It is better to get
the correct information early rather than having several years of poor
crops and having to break your bad habits.

http://www.csrees.usda.gov/Extension/index.html

I agree; good idea. I see you are from Texas, and the Ag Extension
almost certainly has a Master Gardener's program. Many of the Master
Gardener outreach efforts include call in 'help lines', some even have
radio call-in shows. The programs all concentrate on local conditions,
suitable varieties, and so forth.

I took the course this year, and the knowledge I gained is fabulous.
I've had to re-examine a lot of my long-held 'best practices' that
turn out to be harmful practices.