benzalkonium chloride is readily soluble

in ethanol and acetone. Although dissolution in water is slow, aqueous solutions are easier to

handle and are preferred. Solutions should be neutral to slightly alkaline, with colour ranging

from colourless to a pale yellow. Solutions foam profusely when shaken, have a bitter taste and a

faint almond-like odour which is only detectable in concentrated solutions.

In article ,
vikasm wrote:

http://www.useful-chemicals.com/?p=55

Sniffing your samples again or are you just naturally stupid?

Section 11 Additional Information
Toxic, corrosive. Harmful if swallowed, inhaled or absorbed through
skin. Material is extremely destructive to tissue of mucous membranes.
Symptoms of exposure may include burning sensation, coughing, wheezing,
laryngitis, shortness of breath headache, nausea and vomiting. Persons
with preexisting conditions may be more susceptible. Target organ data:
Over exposure may cause somnolence, hallucinations, convulsions or
effect on seizure threshold, ataxia, ulceration or bleeding from small
intestine, diarrhea, nausea or vomiting, pre-implantaion mortality
(effects on fertility), fetal toxicity, fetal death. Persons with
preexisting conditions may be more susceptible.*
http://www.sciencestuff.com/msds/C1302.htmlSection


3: Hazards Identification
Potential Acute Health Effects:
Very hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant), of eye contact
(irritant), of ingestion, . Hazardous in case of skin
contact (corrosive), of eye contact (corrosive). Non-corrosive for
lungs. Liquid or spray mist may produce
tissue damage particularly on mucous membranes of eyes, mouth and
respiratory tract. Skin contact may
produce burns. Inhalation of the spray mist may produce severe
irritation of respiratory tract, characterized by
coughing, choking, or shortness of breath. Severe over-exposure can
result in death. Inflammation of the eye is
characterized by redness, watering, and itching. Skin inflammation is
characterized by itching, scaling, reddening,
or, occasionally, blistering.
Potential Chronic Health Effects:
p. 1
CARCINOGENIC EFFECTS: Classified PROVEN by State of California
Proposition 65 [Ethyl alcohol 200 Proof].
Classified A4 (Not classifiable for human or animal.) by ACGIH [Ethyl
alcohol 200 Proof].
MUTAGENIC EFFECTS: Mutagenic for mammalian somatic cells. [Benzalkonium
chloride]. Mutagenic for
bacteria and/or yeast. [Benzalkonium chloride]. Mutagenic for mammalian
somatic cells. [Ethyl alcohol 200 Proof].
Mutagenic for bacteria and/or yeast. [Ethyl alcohol 200 Proof].
TERATOGENIC EFFECTS: Classified PROVEN for human [Ethyl alcohol 200
Proof].
DEVELOPMENTAL TOXICITY: Classified Reproductive system/toxin/female,
Reproductive system/toxin/male
[POSSIBLE] [Benzalkonium chloride]. Classified Development toxin
[PROVEN] [Ethyl alcohol 200 Proof].
Classified Reproductive system/toxin/male [POSSIBLE] [Ethyl alcohol 200
Proof].
The substance is toxic to blood, the reproductive system, liver, upper
respiratory tract, skin, central nervous
system (CNS).
The substance may be toxic to kidneys, heart, gastrointestinal tract,
cardiovascular system.
Repeated or prolonged exposure to the substance can produce target
organs damage. Repeated or prolonged
contact with spray mist may produce chronic eye irritation and severe
skin irritation. Repeated or prolonged
exposure to spray mist may produce respiratory tract irritation leading
to frequent attacks of bronchial infection.
Repeated exposure to a highly toxic material may produce general
deterioration of health by an accumulation in
one or many human organs.
http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Benz...ion_50_-992303
9
--
Racial injustice, war, urban blight, and environmental rape have a common denominator in our exploitative economic system.*
~Channing E. Phillips

http://tinyurl.com/o63ruj
http://countercurrents.org/roberts020709.htm

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
vikasm wrote:



http://changingminds.org/disciplines..._relevance.htm

In article ,
"gunner" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
vikasm wrote:

http://changingminds.org/disciplines..._relevance.htm

http://www.sciencestuff.com/msds/C1302.htmlSection
http://www.ilpi.com/msds/FAQ/parta.html
--
Racial injustice, war, urban blight, and environmental rape have a common denominator in our exploitative economic system.*
~Channing E. Phillips

http://tinyurl.com/o63ruj
http://countercurrents.org/roberts020709.htm

vikasm wrote:
'benzalkonium chloride' (http://www.useful-chemicals.com/?p=55) is
readily soluble

in ethanol and acetone. Although dissolution in water is slow, aqueous
solutions are easier to

handle and are preferred. Solutions should be neutral to slightly
alkaline, with colour ranging

from colourless to a pale yellow. Solutions foam profusely when
shaken, have a bitter taste and a

faint almond-like odour which is only detectable in concentrated
solutions.

Why do we need to know this?

David

gunner wrote:
"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
vikasm wrote:



http://changingminds.org/disciplines..._relevance.htm

This link could mean a lot of things. I presume this is your way of
accusing Billy of presenting a fallacy. If so what is the fallacy and what
is your reason for saying so?

David

In article , vikasm.4ec9e26
@gardenbanter.co.uk says...

'benzalkonium chloride' (http://www.useful-chemicals.com/?p=55) is
readily soluble

in ethanol and acetone. Although dissolution in water is slow, aqueous
solutions are easier to

handle and are preferred. Solutions should be neutral to slightly
alkaline, with colour ranging

from colourless to a pale yellow. Solutions foam profusely when shaken,
have a bitter taste and a

faint almond-like odour which is only detectable in concentrated
solutions.

SPAM

In article , says...
vikasm wrote:
'benzalkonium chloride' (http://www.useful-chemicals.com/?p=55) is
readily soluble

in ethanol and acetone. Although dissolution in water is slow, aqueous
solutions are easier to

handle and are preferred. Solutions should be neutral to slightly
alkaline, with colour ranging

from colourless to a pale yellow. Solutions foam profusely when
shaken, have a bitter taste and a

faint almond-like odour which is only detectable in concentrated
solutions.

Why do we need to know this?

David

It looks like a spam post to me.

In article ,
phorbin wrote:

In article , says...
vikasm wrote:
'benzalkonium chloride' (http://www.useful-chemicals.com/?p=55) is
readily soluble

in ethanol and acetone. Although dissolution in water is slow, aqueous
solutions are easier to

handle and are preferred. Solutions should be neutral to slightly
alkaline, with colour ranging

from colourless to a pale yellow. Solutions foam profusely when
shaken, have a bitter taste and a

faint almond-like odour which is only detectable in concentrated
solutions.

Why do we need to know this?

David

It looks like a spam post to me.

I think we got a consensus, unless "gunny" wants to come back and show
us where we erred. I don't care if it is bactericidal and fungicidal, if
I want something that is extremely destructive to my mucous membranes,
with lingering after burn, coughing, wheezing, laryngitis, shortness of
breath, headache, nausea and vomiting, I can always drink some good ol'
red-eye. It always worked before ;O)
--
Racial injustice, war, urban blight, and environmental rape have a common denominator in our exploitative economic system.*
~Channing E. Phillips

http://tinyurl.com/o63ruj
http://countercurrents.org/roberts020709.htm

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...
gunner wrote:
"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
vikasm wrote:



http://changingminds.org/disciplines..._relevance.htm

This link could mean a lot of things. I presume this is your way of
accusing Billy of presenting a fallacy. If so what is the fallacy and
what is your reason for saying so?

David

Indeed it could, Mr. Hare-Scott, but there is no need to presume. billy
attacked the man, then used information out of context to make the
case that this was yet another evil chemical at work.

Two fallacies at minimum; the Ad Hominem and the Appeal to Emotion.
My question to you, is your question relevant to anything? I.E. is it going
to change anything you do? Research more? You going to fact check better?

As to whether the chemical in question is toxic or not, that is not the
issue here. The issue is the use of fallacy agruments to portray it as
toxic.

The fallacies used in this knee jerk, starts typically and predictably w/
billy leading off w/ his usual Ad Hominem attack; "Sniffing your samples
again or are you just naturally stupid?" Very familiar opening for billy.
Yet, this was a spammer for Pete's sake!!! How bizarre does one need to
get in establishing the pecking order with a spammer trying to sell bulk
product?

Throw in the Appeal to Emotion, perhaps the Appeal to Authority
fallacy also (or Appeal to Misleading Authority may be more appropriate)
billy gives a lot of cherry picked, fear mongering "citations" ;
"CARCINOGENIC EFFECTS, MUTAGENIC EFFECTS, TERATOGENIC
EFFECTS, and DEVELOPMENTAL TOXICITY" .

All very scary words AND he added MSDS links with voluminous amounts of more
scary words, scientific ones even, so it must be true!

But did you actually read any of the links? better yet understand the
theme of the person playing them? Or did ya just glance over them and think
you know what you read? If you actually read the links you would have
noticed the solution he referenced was 50% and 100% BAK. Never are these
great % put into the context of application Mr. Hare-Scott.. These are just
cut and pasted facts that are irrelevant to everyday life unless you are a
warehouse or a shipper.

To quote billy's own follow-up link : "MSDS's are not meant for consumers."
http://www.ilpi.com/msds/FAQ/parta.html . You need to be able to
understand the data relevance. Apparently that did not happen here.

This toxic poison in question is Generally Regarded as
Safe (GRAS) by the FDA.
http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dai...00/ack0001.pdf
Course this bit of information coming from the FDA will be discredited as
part of the covert super secret Government/Corporate conspiracy designed to
keep the working man down and kill the earth off, a spin off of the
military's surreptitious disposal of Agent Orange in CA Orange groves.
updated and now known as the Cheney Option. The wingnuts use this type
fallacy argument whenever they do not have fact. Any bets it gets played?

You did note the FDA reference showed a GRAS OTC application as .11-.13%,
yes? So you're not going to use a BAK solution @ 50% or even 100%, when
the dosage in most application is well below 1%, are you Mr. Hare-Scott?

example of low dose BAK concentrations in:

Neosynephrine is 0.01%
Artificial Tears is .005-0.01%
Visine is 0.01%

In Medicines:

Methotrexate it is 0.9%
Valium 1.5%
Compazine 0.75%

Also, I hope you noticed billy's MSDS scary word categories listed the
200 proof alcohol adjuvant in many, if not more, places than the 50%
Benzalkonium Chloride Solution. This is admittely a chemical billy like to
self medicate with, again in lesser concentrations. Must be organic alcohol!
So go back and read them again.
Here is the first listing:

"CARCINOGENIC EFFECTS: ...[Ethyl alcohol 200 Proof]." etc. etc

If you need further examples of using facts in context go look up the MSDS
for 30% Hydrogen Peroxide he
http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/H4065.htm

"Health Rating: 3 - Severe (Life)

Scary words again, health rating of 3 - severe... would you use that in
your everyday household? Not likely! What you have is ~3% H2O2 in your
medicine cabinet, a slight bit of a difference, yes? H2O2 is one of the
safest ingredients around WHEN USED PROPERLY but it is also a rocket fuel if
you so wish/need to call it that to impress or make a point!

Is this chemical evil? it is GRAS in eye drops, makeup &
toweletts, oh! and for cold sores and vaginal crème so billy can add it
to the home remedies advice he gives out for yeast infections next time
around, maybe he can use it when he can't find his "red-eye" medicine.

You can rant ad nauseam here on many ingredients that are
used in daily households that would give all the dire warnings the Eco
fringe like to perpetuate. But let us keep the BS in context with the
application. Get beyond all the background drama, pecking order and dirt
scratching. these goggling pasties are NOT really scary stuff when you see
what is actually there.

So let's put these continuing "fear-up" tactics away and let's
stop playing into this Chicken Little BS. The world is not going to stop and
go back to the "Good Old Days" of feast and famine to let some "old-think"
get off. We use chemicals everyday, deal with it on an intelligent level

Again, my point; two fallacy arguments, Ad Hominem and the Appeal to
Emotion, this last one can be debated as to category, maybe Authority. he
does like to google.

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"gunner" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
vikasm wrote:

http://changingminds.org/disciplines..._relevance.htm

http://www.sciencestuff.com/msds/C1302.htmlSection

Just another broken link, billy. try tinyurls. This is an all too common
occurance with your links.

http://www.ilpi.com/msds/FAQ/parta.html

ahhh, I think I understand now, you didn't know what an MSDS was?
Well good that you found out, just note that there is one for each product,
Ok. You need to find the correct one though. In this case you gave the
one that would disinfect the world. That once again is a bit overboard. But
it is a good think you are still trying. That is all that is important.

also do note your link reenforces: "MSDS's are not meant for consumers."
You need to be able to understand the data relevance. Apparently you didn't

Extraneous Political BS snipped

Gunner

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
phorbin wrote:

In article , says...
vikasm wrote:
'benzalkonium chloride' (http://www.useful-chemicals.com/?p=55) is
readily soluble

in ethanol and acetone. Although dissolution in water is slow,
aqueous
solutions are easier to

handle and are preferred. Solutions should be neutral to slightly
alkaline, with colour ranging

from colourless to a pale yellow. Solutions foam profusely when
shaken, have a bitter taste and a

faint almond-like odour which is only detectable in concentrated
solutions.

Why do we need to know this?

David

It looks like a spam post to me.

I think we got a consensus,

is this another of your "follow me men, I'm right behind ya" ?

In article ,
"gunner" wrote:

http://changingminds.org/disciplines..._relevance.htm

http://www.sciencestuff.com/msds/C1302.htmlSection

Just another broken link, billy. try tinyurls. This is an all too common
occurance with your links.

http://www.ilpi.com/msds/FAQ/parta.html

ahhh, I think I understand now, you didn't know what an MSDS was?
Well good that you found out, just note that there is one for each product,
Ok. You need to find the correct one though. In this case you gave the
one that would disinfect the world. That once again is a bit overboard. But
it is a good think you are still trying. That is all that is important.

also do note your link reenforces: "MSDS's are not meant for consumers."
You need to be able to understand the data relevance. Apparently you didn't

Extraneous Political BS snipped

Gunner

Sniffing your samples again or are you just naturally stupid, gunny?

"Also do note your link reenforces: "MSDS's are not meant for
consumers.""

I knew you'd jump on that one, gunny. You really ought to get a life.
If you had continued on, you would have been directed to products. but
the presentation wasn't for a product, it was for 100% benzalkonium
chloride.

The MSDS site that I gave http://www.sciencestuff.com/msds/C1302.html
was only for 50% benzalkonium chloride, 40% H2O, 10% Etoh.

When faced with such incompetence in reporting either abusive behavior,
or factual representation, I see no reason to treat you with respect.
--
Racial injustice, war, urban blight, and environmental rape have a common denominator in our exploitative economic system.*
~Channing E. Phillips

http://tinyurl.com/o63ruj
http://countercurrents.org/roberts020709.htm

In article ,
says...

It looks like a spam post to me.

I think we got a consensus,

is this another of your "follow me men, I'm right behind ya" ?

It's SPAM and no doubt about it.

It is clearly intended to generate traffic for an OT site.

gunner wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...
gunner wrote:
"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
vikasm wrote:



http://changingminds.org/disciplines..._relevance.htm

This link could mean a lot of things. I presume this is your way of
accusing Billy of presenting a fallacy. If so what is the fallacy
and what is your reason for saying so?

David

Indeed it could, Mr. Hare-Scott, but there is no need to presume. billy
attacked the man, then used information out of context to make
the case that this was yet another evil chemical at work.


Well why not say so to start with rather than leave us with a shopping list
of things to choose from.

Two fallacies at minimum; the Ad Hominem and the Appeal to Emotion.
My question to you, is your question relevant to anything? I.E. is
it going to change anything you do? Research more? You going to fact
check better?

My question was relevant to getting you to say what you mean which you have
now done.

As to whether the chemical in question is toxic or not, that is not
the issue here. The issue is the use of fallacy agruments to portray
it as toxic.

The fallacies used in this knee jerk, starts typically and
predictably w/ billy leading off w/ his usual Ad Hominem attack; "Sniffing
your samples again or are you just naturally stupid?" Very
familiar opening for billy. Yet, this was a spammer for Pete's
sake!!! How bizarre does one need to get in establishing the pecking
order with a spammer trying to sell bulk product?


Yes he did use an ad hominem and yes he has done so previously. He also
quoted relevant material.

Throw in the Appeal to Emotion, perhaps the Appeal to Authority
fallacy also (or Appeal to Misleading Authority may be more
appropriate) billy gives a lot of cherry picked, fear mongering
"citations" ; "CARCINOGENIC EFFECTS, MUTAGENIC EFFECTS, TERATOGENIC
EFFECTS, and DEVELOPMENTAL TOXICITY" .

All very scary words AND he added MSDS links with voluminous amounts
of more scary words, scientific ones even, so it must be true!

But did you actually read any of the links? better yet understand
the theme of the person playing them? Or did ya just glance over them
and think you know what you read? If you actually read the links you
would have noticed the solution he referenced was 50% and 100% BAK. Never
are these great % put into the context of application Mr.
Hare-Scott.. These are just cut and pasted facts that are irrelevant
to everyday life unless you are a warehouse or a shipper.

To quote billy's own follow-up link : "MSDS's are not meant for
consumers." http://www.ilpi.com/msds/FAQ/parta.html . You need to be
able to understand the data relevance. Apparently that did not
happen here.
This toxic poison in question is Generally Regarded as
Safe (GRAS) by the FDA.
http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dai...00/ack0001.pdf
Course this bit of information coming from the FDA will be discredited as
part of the covert super secret Government/Corporate
conspiracy designed to keep the working man down and kill the earth
off, a spin off of the military's surreptitious disposal of Agent
Orange in CA Orange groves. updated and now known as the Cheney
Option. The wingnuts use this type fallacy argument whenever they
do not have fact. Any bets it gets played?
You did note the FDA reference showed a GRAS OTC application as
.11-.13%, yes? So you're not going to use a BAK solution @ 50% or
even 100%, when the dosage in most application is well below 1%, are
you Mr. Hare-Scott?
example of low dose BAK concentrations in:

Neosynephrine is 0.01%
Artificial Tears is .005-0.01%
Visine is 0.01%

In Medicines:

Methotrexate it is 0.9%
Valium 1.5%
Compazine 0.75%

Also, I hope you noticed billy's MSDS scary word categories listed the
200 proof alcohol adjuvant in many, if not more, places than the
50% Benzalkonium Chloride Solution. This is admittely a chemical
billy like to self medicate with, again in lesser concentrations.
Must be organic alcohol! So go back and read them again.
Here is the first listing:

"CARCINOGENIC EFFECTS: ...[Ethyl alcohol 200 Proof]." etc. etc

If you need further examples of using facts in context go look up the
MSDS for 30% Hydrogen Peroxide he
http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/H4065.htm

"Health Rating: 3 - Severe (Life)

Scary words again, health rating of 3 - severe... would you use that
in your everyday household? Not likely! What you have is ~3% H2O2 in
your medicine cabinet, a slight bit of a difference, yes? H2O2 is
one of the safest ingredients around WHEN USED PROPERLY but it is
also a rocket fuel if you so wish/need to call it that to impress or
make a point!
Is this chemical evil? it is GRAS in eye drops, makeup &
toweletts, oh! and for cold sores and vaginal crème so billy can
add it to the home remedies advice he gives out for yeast infections
next time around, maybe he can use it when he can't find his
"red-eye" medicine.
You can rant ad nauseam here on many ingredients that are
used in daily households that would give all the dire warnings the Eco
fringe like to perpetuate. But let us keep the BS in context with the
application. Get beyond all the background drama, pecking order and
dirt scratching. these goggling pasties are NOT really scary stuff
when you see what is actually there.

So let's put these continuing "fear-up" tactics away and let's
stop playing into this Chicken Little BS. The world is not going to
stop and go back to the "Good Old Days" of feast and famine to let
some "old-think" get off. We use chemicals everyday, deal with it on
an intelligent level
Again, my point; two fallacy arguments, Ad Hominem and the Appeal to
Emotion, this last one can be debated as to category, maybe
Authority. he does like to google.

So to summarise you are saying the concentration of use is a key issue
regarding the degree of hazard and Billy didn't address that but substituted
scare tactics. It's a fair point. It would have been simpler if you said
so to start with.

And why so formal? Unless you feel the need to put some distance between us
call me David.

David