In other good news, I have a concord grape arbor in my yard. This morning
I noticed that it was swarming with honey bees. I've had a few bumblebees
in my yard in the spring but in very small numbers, 1 or 2, but I've
never seen honey bees. But this morning I saw hundreds on my grape vines.
Has anyone else noticed an increase in the bee population? I'm in
Massachusetts.

I've seem more honey bees this year than in past years..I tend to appreciate
them more now
"General Schvantzkoph" wrote in message
...
In other good news, I have a concord grape arbor in my yard. This morning
I noticed that it was swarming with honey bees. I've had a few bumblebees
in my yard in the spring but in very small numbers, 1 or 2, but I've
never seen honey bees. But this morning I saw hundreds on my grape vines.
Has anyone else noticed an increase in the bee population? I'm in
Massachusetts.

In article ,
says...


With an early start each morning, it is easy enough to intercept
and kill the scout bees in order to prevent them from bringing the rest
of the herd to a truck garden but I don't know about grape vine; depends
on how aerial it is, I suppose. As a rule, I certainly don't recommend
any insexticide but, in your case, the thing to do might be to locate
the honeybees' nest and take out the entire hive at night when most of
its inhabitants are present and lethargic or occupied with domestic
duties. The few stragglers that spent the night away from the hive are
not likely to be of sufficient number to maintain it.

You have to be expert enough to tell the difference between honeybees
and many other species. -- There are a lot of look-enough-alikes on the
flowers in great enough numbers to confuse just about anyone, let alone
the experts who sometimes say that you can't tell some species apart
until you get them under a scope.

Whatever your opinion of escaped millifera, this djinn has left the
bottle and can't be stuffed back in. Apis mellifera in the wild is there
to stay ...and might become part of the solution to CCD.

It seems good practice to call a local beekeeper and try to save a
colony before someone with more fear than good sense wastes it.

The up-front assumption that these bees are from a wild colony is a big
leap into a dark hole. A neighbour could have taken up beekeeping.

I think you'd better get your facts straight. First of all, the tracheal and varroa mites that are killing honey bees do not have ANY effect on native bees, so they are not "decimating native solitary bee populations" in any way. Secondly, your claim that honey bees "totally dominate food sources" depends entirely on the variety and number of plants in the area. There are many flowers that honey bees will not enter due to their shape and size, leaving nectar and pollen sources for native bees, and solitary bees fly longer hours, and in rainy and windy weather, when honey bees stay in the hive. And are you aware that native bumble bees are also used as 'managed' pollinators?

How disturbing that you begin your day killing honey bees. Like it or not, one out of every three bites of food we eat depends upon pollinators, and native bees cannot accomplish that alone - even if every honey bee disappeared. We need to encourage all types of pollinators, including honey bees.

So instead of killing, here's a healthier solution to the pollinator demands of our food system: let's all concentrate on improving habitat in our gardens and on our farms by planting native wildflowers and flowering shrubs into field borders, hedgerows, and buffer strips. This approach will reduce the need for all managed pollinators (both native and non-native) by supporting vigorous wild bee populations.

Balvenieman wrote:
General Schvantzkoph wrote:

In other good news, I have a concord grape arbor in my yard. This
morning
I noticed that it was swarming with honey bees.
In what way is that "good" news? You have a problem: Because of
their herding behavior that leads to total domination of food sources,
AWA their spreading of diseases and infestations (mites) against which
native populations have no defenses, European honeybees are decimating
native solitary bee (such as bumblebee) populations; how, one might
well
ask, is that a "good" thing?

How do they dominate food sources?

Do honeybees spread diseases where the other bees do not?

What proof do you have that it is the honeybee decimating the native
bees?
Are you sure other factors at work, like pesticides, herbicides and
GMO,s are not responsible for the decimation of native bees, bee
inbreeding?


The very behavior patterns that make "tame" European honeybees so
highly valuable to commercial, mono-cropping, Earth-damaging
"AGRICULTUREmoneymoneymoney" are the same behavior patterns that,
along
with their diseases and parasites, make them so devastating to native
insect populations. The presence of honeybees in the "woodlands" is
always --100% the fault of negligent beekeepers--. Allowing
honeybees
to roam freely in the "native" or "undeveloped" bush has exactly the
same deleterious effect as does allowing cattle, goats, and sheep
(also
alien species) to do so, the scale is just different and we don't
_see_
it happening, and the perpetrators deserve jail time, IMO, because
it's
absolutely preventable. In my view, herders of domestic beasts do not
have a "right" to inflict them on the native ecosystem but, instead,
have a duty to that system to contain and control their animals.

What makes you the law giver that determine "what is right"?
Are you going to remove what is not native?
Or is it natural selection?

I start most of my days killing honey bee scouts in order to
prevent them carrying the news of my garden to their pestiferous
fellows. Not only do I consider bee-killing to be an essential home
gardening activity, I believe it should be a priority of any gardener
who wants to minimize his impact on the native ecosystem and do his
little part in preserving native insect species.
With an early start each morning, it is easy enough to intercept
and kill the scout bees in order to prevent them from bringing the
rest
of the herd to a truck garden but I don't know about grape vine;
depends
on how aerial it is, I suppose. As a rule, I certainly don't recommend
any insexticide but, in your case, the thing to do might be to locate
the honeybees' nest and take out the entire hive at night when most of
its inhabitants are present and lethargic or occupied with domestic
duties. The few stragglers that spent the night away from the hive are
not likely to be of sufficient number to maintain it.

Honeybees do not travel much more that one mile from their hive. if a
swarm escaped, honeybees typically will not survive a cold winter
without a hive. My guess there is a local beekeeper nearby. A swarm of
bees is worth about $80 US, if the queen is in the swarm. A local
beekeeper would love to have it!

The honeybees arrived in North America the day after the horse arrived
hundreds of years ago. If following your rational, do you believe that
all humans should be exterminated that are not native as well?

Where there humans, their favorite food sources will be there also!

--
Enjoy Life... Dan Using an iPad

In article ,
Our NativeBees wrote:

Balvenieman;897834 Wrote:
General Schvantzkoph wrote:
-
In other good news, I have a concord grape arbor in my yard. This
morning
I noticed that it was swarming with honey bees. -
In what way is that "good" news? You have a problem: Because of
their herding behavior that leads to total domination of food sources,
AWA their spreading of diseases and infestations (mites) against which
native populations have no defenses, European honeybees are decimating
native solitary bee (such as bumblebee) populations; how, one might
well
ask, is that a "good" thing?
The very behavior patterns that make "tame" European honeybees so
highly valuable to commercial, mono-cropping, Earth-damaging
"AGRICULTUREmoneymoneymoney" are the same behavior patterns that, along
with their diseases and parasites, make them so devastating to native
insect populations. The presence of honeybees in the "woodlands" is
always --100% the fault of negligent beekeepers--. Allowing honeybees
to roam freely in the "native" or "undeveloped" bush has exactly the
same deleterious effect as does allowing cattle, goats, and sheep (also
alien species) to do so, the scale is just different and we don't _see_
it happening, and the perpetrators deserve jail time, IMO, because it's
absolutely preventable. In my view, herders of domestic beasts do not
have a "right" to inflict them on the native ecosystem but, instead,
have a duty to that system to contain and control their animals.
I start most of my days killing honey bee scouts in order to
prevent them carrying the news of my garden to their pestiferous
fellows. Not only do I consider bee-killing to be an essential home
gardening activity, I believe it should be a priority of any gardener
who wants to minimize his impact on the native ecosystem and do his
little part in preserving native insect species.
With an early start each morning, it is easy enough to intercept
and kill the scout bees in order to prevent them from bringing the rest
of the herd to a truck garden but I don't know about grape vine;
depends
on how aerial it is, I suppose. As a rule, I certainly don't recommend
any insexticide but, in your case, the thing to do might be to locate
the honeybees' nest and take out the entire hive at night when most of
its inhabitants are present and lethargic or occupied with domestic
duties. The few stragglers that spent the night away from the hive are
not likely to be of sufficient number to maintain it.
--
the Balvenieman
USDA zone 9b, peninsular Florida, U.S.A.
If your neighbor has a cow,
_He_ builds the fence.

I think you'd better get your facts straight. First of all, the
tracheal and varroa mites that are killing honey bees do not have ANY
effect on native bees, so they are not "decimating native solitary bee
populations" in any way. Secondly, your claim that honey bees "totally
dominate food sources" depends entirely on the variety and number of
plants in the area. There are many flowers that honey bees will not
enter due to their shape and size, leaving nectar and pollen sources for
native bees, and solitary bees fly longer hours, and in rainy and windy
weather, when honey bees stay in the hive. And are you aware that
native bumble bees are also used as 'managed' pollinators?

How disturbing that you begin your day killing honey bees. Like it or
not, one out of every three bites of food we eat depends upon
pollinators, and native bees cannot accomplish that alone - even if
every honey bee disappeared. We need to encourage all types of
pollinators, including honey bees.

So instead of killing, here's a healthier solution to the pollinator
demands of our food system: let's all concentrate on improving habitat
in our gardens and on our farms by planting native wildflowers and
flowering shrubs into field borders, hedgerows, and buffer strips. This
approach will reduce the need for all managed pollinators (both native
and non-native) by supporting vigorous wild bee populations.

With that in mind, I have noticed that the honey bees here are strongly
attracted to catnip. I have cut the flowers twice, and it just keeps
making more.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/2/maude
http://english.aljazeera.net/video/m...515308172.html

"Balvenieman" wrote in message
General Schvantzkoph wrote:

In other good news, I have a concord grape arbor in my yard. This morning
I noticed that it was swarming with honey bees.

In what way is that "good" news? You have a problem: Because of
their herding behavior that leads to total domination of food sources,
AWA their spreading of diseases and infestations (mites) against which
native populations have no defenses, European honeybees are decimating
native solitary bee (such as bumblebee) populations; how, one might well
ask, is that a "good" thing?

It probably depends on the importance you put on the survival of a huge slab
of the human race. Personally, I think humanity needs a good scourge, but
most people don't see it the same way as I do. I reckon that at least half
of the human race could disappear and that that would be a good thing. Bees
are important when it comes to feeding humans so those European honey bees
are needed as part of the feeding process regardless of whether we have a
scourge or not.

In article 840119220303917960.801087dan-
,
dude says...

What makes you the law giver that determine "what is right"?
Are you going to remove what is not native?
Or is it natural selection?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balvenie

In article , ask@itshall
says...


It probably depends on the importance you put on the survival of a huge slab
of the human race. Personally, I think humanity needs a good scourge, but
most people don't see it the same way as I do. I reckon that at least half
of the human race could disappear and that that would be a good thing.

I used to feel this way until I realized that a disease that can take
out 50% can take out 100% by itself without considering waves of
disease, vermin, etc. that would follow.

In article ,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"Balvenieman" wrote in message
General Schvantzkoph wrote:

In other good news, I have a concord grape arbor in my yard. This morning
I noticed that it was swarming with honey bees.

In what way is that "good" news? You have a problem: Because of
their herding behavior that leads to total domination of food sources,
AWA their spreading of diseases and infestations (mites) against which
native populations have no defenses, European honeybees are decimating
native solitary bee (such as bumblebee) populations; how, one might well
ask, is that a "good" thing?

It probably depends on the importance you put on the survival of a huge slab
of the human race. Personally, I think humanity needs a good scourge, but
most people don't see it the same way as I do. I reckon that at least half
of the human race could disappear and that that would be a good thing. Bees
are important when it comes to feeding humans so those European honey bees
are needed as part of the feeding process regardless of whether we have a
scourge or not.

You volunteering?

Seems like birth control would be a better idea. Tax breaks (or cash)
for the childless and draconian surcharges for the prolific. Of course
that would probably lead to many more males being born, as in China,
which may lead to wives with multiple husbands. Oops, I hope that wasn't
too shocking of an idea for you ;O) Maybe we could encourage gay
marriages ;O)
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/2/maude
http://english.aljazeera.net/video/m...515308172.html

In article ,
phorbin wrote:

In article , ask@itshall
says...


It probably depends on the importance you put on the survival of a huge
slab
of the human race. Personally, I think humanity needs a good scourge, but
most people don't see it the same way as I do. I reckon that at least half
of the human race could disappear and that that would be a good thing.

I used to feel this way until I realized that a disease that can take
out 50% can take out 100% by itself without considering waves of
disease, vermin, etc. that would follow.

Great book, "The World Without Us", by Alan Weisman
http://www.amazon.com/World-Without-...1C2E0QK/ref=sr
_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1282344894&sr=1-1

If you liked Jerod Diamond's books, you'll like this one.

In a hundred thousand years (the blink of an eye in geologic time),
things could get back to normal(?) on Earth.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/2/maude
http://english.aljazeera.net/video/m...515308172.html

phorbin wrote:
In article 840119220303917960.801087dan-
,
dude says...

What makes you the law giver that determine "what is right"?
Are you going to remove what is not native?
Or is it natural selection?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balvenie

I imagine a good scotch whiskey is a good answer as any

--
Enjoy Life... Dan Using an iPad

"Billy" wrote in message
In article ,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"Balvenieman" wrote in message
General Schvantzkoph wrote:

In other good news, I have a concord grape arbor in my yard. This
morning
I noticed that it was swarming with honey bees.

In what way is that "good" news? You have a problem: Because of
their herding behavior that leads to total domination of food sources,
AWA their spreading of diseases and infestations (mites) against which
native populations have no defenses, European honeybees are decimating
native solitary bee (such as bumblebee) populations; how, one might
well
ask, is that a "good" thing?

It probably depends on the importance you put on the survival of a huge
slab
of the human race. Personally, I think humanity needs a good scourge,
but
most people don't see it the same way as I do. I reckon that at least
half
of the human race could disappear and that that would be a good thing.
Bees
are important when it comes to feeding humans so those European honey
bees
are needed as part of the feeding process regardless of whether we have a
scourge or not.

You volunteering?

Well I'm just taking my chances with cancer which keeps trying to get me but
so far I've survived all four types. I'm fairly sanguine about crossing the
bar.

Seems like birth control would be a better idea.

It would indeed, but everyone thinks it should apply to someone else rather
than themselves.

Tax breaks (or cash)
for the childless and draconian surcharges for the prolific. Of course
that would probably lead to many more males being born, as in China,
which may lead to wives with multiple husbands. Oops, I hope that wasn't
too shocking of an idea for you ;O) Maybe we could encourage gay
marriages ;O)

I don't find either of those things shocking.

In article ,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
In article ,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"Balvenieman" wrote in message
General Schvantzkoph wrote:

In other good news, I have a concord grape arbor in my yard. This
morning
I noticed that it was swarming with honey bees.

In what way is that "good" news? You have a problem: Because of
their herding behavior that leads to total domination of food sources,
AWA their spreading of diseases and infestations (mites) against which
native populations have no defenses, European honeybees are decimating
native solitary bee (such as bumblebee) populations; how, one might
well
ask, is that a "good" thing?

It probably depends on the importance you put on the survival of a huge
slab
of the human race. Personally, I think humanity needs a good scourge,
but
most people don't see it the same way as I do. I reckon that at least
half
of the human race could disappear and that that would be a good thing.
Bees
are important when it comes to feeding humans so those European honey
bees
are needed as part of the feeding process regardless of whether we have a
scourge or not.

You volunteering?

Well I'm just taking my chances with cancer which keeps trying to get me but
so far I've survived all four types. I'm fairly sanguine about crossing the
bar.
My Sweety has dodged it three times. Who knows what it can be, some 20
year old chemical insult to the body, or just eating too many croissants
(highly processed carbohydrates)? Neither of us is in great health, but
what can you do? We just try to enjoy what each day brings (and eat as
much as possible from our garden).

Seems like birth control would be a better idea.

It would indeed, but everyone thinks it should apply to someone else rather
than themselves.

Tax breaks (or cash)
for the childless and draconian surcharges for the prolific. Of course
that would probably lead to many more males being born, as in China,
which may lead to wives with multiple husbands. Oops, I hope that wasn't
too shocking of an idea for you ;O) Maybe we could encourage gay
marriages ;O)

I don't find either of those things shocking.

Neither do I, but I suspect those who want to feel free to have a half
dozen kids would.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/2/maude
http://english.aljazeera.net/video/m...515308172.html

"Billy" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
Well I'm just taking my chances with cancer which keeps trying to get me
but
so far I've survived all four types. I'm fairly sanguine about crossing
the
bar.
My Sweety has dodged it three times. Who knows what it can be, some 20
year old chemical insult to the body, or just eating too many croissants
(highly processed carbohydrates)?

I'm blaming my cancers on exposure to Agent Orange :-))

Years ago, when the Vietnam War was still going on (or the American War as
the Vietnamese call it), I was watching the news with my father one day when
there was some mention of Agent Orange. I asked Dad what it was and he said
"Blackberry Spray".

I had instant recall of the smell and feel of it from my childhood.

Blackberries are a noxious weed in Oz and local authorities used to come
around in big trucks with tankers of the trayback and spray the blackberries
in mid summer. Being country kids with no swimming pool anywhere around us,
a big pack of kids used to follow the truck as it spayed and we'd try to
outcompete each other to stand in the spray drift. It was nice and cool on
a hot summer's day.

Neither of us is in great health, but
what can you do? We just try to enjoy what each day brings (and eat as
much as possible from our garden).

Yep. It's a case of jt keep on keeping on and never give in.

Seems like birth control would be a better idea.

It would indeed, but everyone thinks it should apply to someone else
rather
than themselves.

Tax breaks (or cash)
for the childless and draconian surcharges for the prolific. Of course
that would probably lead to many more males being born, as in China,
which may lead to wives with multiple husbands. Oops, I hope that
wasn't
too shocking of an idea for you ;O) Maybe we could encourage gay
marriages ;O)

I don't find either of those things shocking.

Neither do I, but I suspect those who want to feel free to have a half
dozen kids would.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/2/maude
http://english.aljazeera.net/video/m...515308172.html