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ok Gunner, here's where we are at
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songbird wrote: Gunner wrote: songbird wrote: Gunner wrote: Bird, You guys should be darn proud, 20 #s a plant is exceptional in any climate. Just know that would not happen here without some help. Hell, a lot of help, hence the BS hothouse vines sure taste better than the Fl field pinks shipped up here. So I tweak under lights. i'm happy, but not particularly proud because we didn't really have to do much other than plant them and water them during the dry spells. a little weeding here or there. I also agree w/ ya, you can't place a price on a quality product. So I don't understand "whats the price" thing was? i'm not sure what you are talking about unless you mean the point i was trying to make about what it actually costs to produce a pound of greenhouse tomato compared to what it costs to produce a pound grown in the dirt. You would not be pulling 20 # here and you admit you can't compete with the commercial growers on price point. i don't understand you. you quoted wholesale tomato prices not wholesale organic tomato prices. and i'm not a commercial grower anyways. the question i answered was how much did it cost me per pound and i put a number out there and my reasoning behind it. i still have yet to see a number from you. Kinda sounded like you were tag teaming with billy, one of those organo vs. the world folks when we started this little posturing game. it's not posturing if i'm backing it up with facts. My garden is a cook's garden. I do really good with it because of a lot of good teachers around the world. My rosemarys are not the Mediterranean quality I have known but I can tweak em in a green house better to taste than I can in the cool wet short growing season we have here. That is priceless to have that. Sure nice in the winter to have some rosemary garlic trashcan potatoes from your own garden. Same for the many varieties of peppers, epozote, basils, marjoram/ oregano,Bay Laurel .... you get the picture I'm sure. So growing my own is much better than not. The 20-30 bucks a month is acceptable to me , again especially in the winter when I'm in my greenhouse. I still have time to review the seed catalogs in front of the winter fire with the dog at my feet as you do it all sounds good to me. here, keeping a greenhouse warm enough to keep a rosemary plant would cost a lot of money. the rosemary plant we have comes inside for the winter and sits by the window here in my room. that's all the space for plants i want to bring in. the amaryllis are taking over as it is. gotta give some away soon. As for your sermon of "go forth and cause no harm". Your preaching to the choir, maybe not yours perhaps and certainly not the billy bad goat Doom and Gloom Fringe Band. I do not see it as an "either/ or". You've even stated you use billy's evil OP. ? billy's evil OP? no idea what that means. But billy has never been anywhere nor seen anything except what he reads on the Internet to really compare. I have been around the world a time or two to appreciate the little things that American billys seems to think is exclusive to the Organos. He has no bona fides except from his Amazon Organo book of the month club . Your 20# @ give you some. My Inlaws in Detroit didn't have such luck. the neighbor's garden 150yds away didn't have any luck this year either. but it's really not lack of luck as much as nobody cares much for gardening there. just a little effort in the right direction and they'd get much more for their efforts. to defend billy a bit, he does garden. yes, i'd like to hear more direct experience from him and less quoting of other sources as this isn't a "post your research quotes" newsgroup. in the end, i think his heart is in the right place. Just know I'm using less 'cides than most in my IPM schedules and certainly less water than dirt scratchers except mine is about equal in the hottest part of the summer when our soil drains too well. Luckily we have Hydropower here so my energy/water is cheap. Old Sol is not always here for ya in the PNW. You results may vary in the Great Lakes. sure. our power is mostly either coal or nuclear. the wind and solar is gradually increasing. they are just now adding a 90MW wind farm that will come online this year. the problem here with solar is that the winters are cloudy often enough so it isn't something that gets paid back as quickly as it would in the southwest. Regardless, The best to you birds. I also hope you keep your land for many years to come. Also know my grandkids will be helping yours. thanks, BTW, Miracle-Gro is still OK to use gack! i was just thinking about what i would rather drink, dilute MG or dilute worm tea. can't say i've tasted either. don't intend to. now my break is over and time to get back out and get the buckets of stuff buried and the grapes cleaned up a bit. if i have any energy left after that then i move on to finishing up thinning the strawberry patch. O&E, songbird Psst. Is he gone? When do you think he'll find out that you are just another hemorrhoidal, fat, old man? Whups ;O) shussh. Anyway, all I got for you is another ol' book report. To wit: Animal Factory: The Looming Threat of Industrial Pig, Dairy, and Poultry Farms to Humans and the Environment by David Kirby http://www.amazon.com/Animal-Factory...vironment/dp/B 004IK9EJQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1310272843&sr=1-1 (Available at your local library, until they are closed.) 260 ANIMAL FACTORY What irked Chuck most was that not all hog farmers [CAFOs] were doing their part to avoid pollution. "And it ticks me off," he said. "I spend so much time and trouble and paperwork on all the things I do most of my expenses, really for applying and monitoring the waste. And then some guy somewhere just decides to let it go, and then that paints a bad picture for all of us." Chuck was personally involved in the hunt to make [CAFO] lagoons obsolete. Chuck introduced them to the inventor, an old farmer named Don Lloyd. Rick and Nicolette watched in wonderment as Chuck and Lloyd explained how it worked. "We take all the wastewater washed from the barns and pump it into this underground holding tank, where heavy solids settle to the bottom," Chuck said. "Now, this is all the stuff that would normally go into the lagoon. So you see, we've already eliminated the need for a lagoon right from the get-go." Rick liked what he was hearing so far. Once the solids had settled out, Chuck and Lloyd siphoned water off the top and ran it to a large above-ground tank. [T]he solids, raw manure cannot be used on food crops because of the harmful pathogens it contains, limiting its commercial value as a fertilizer. Most of the germs can be killed through composting, though that takes time and money to accomplish, without adding enough market value to the manure to make the system economically feasible. "Then we discovered an answer," Chuck said proudly. "It was worms vermiculture, they call it." Lloyd devised a system that feeds waste solids to worms on a continual basis. Inside a barn with dirt floors, he had dug several rows of trenchesthree feet wide and about twenty-two inches deepthe entire length of the floor. A mix of worms and organic matter were introduced into the trenches, and then specially designed machinery deposited an inch of solids into each trench every morning. By the end of the day, the worms had consumed the entire inch of food, turning it into clean, odorless, disease-free castings. The worms returned to the bottom of the trench, and another layer of, solids was applied to begin the process again. "I chose a type of worm that turns this stuff into some kind of superfood for plants," Don said. "Farmers and gardeners can't get enough of it; they pay top dollar for it." The worm barn could yield about three tons of the coveted "black gold" each day, he said, adding that the state department of transportation had told him they wanted to buy it for roadside plantings. "And because of the value added on the manure from those little worms," Chuck concluded with a big grin, "it brings our net costs down to about fourteen 262 I ANIMAL FACTORY dollars per thousandweight," or a penny and a half per pound. "But this is still in its early stages. We're just a little Chitty Chitty Bang Bang kinda outfit up here." --- -- - Billy Both the House and Senate budget plan would have cut Social Security and Medicare, while cutting taxes on the wealthy. Kucinich noted that none of the government programs targeted for elimination or severe cutback in House Republican spending plans "appeared on the GAO's list of government programs at high risk of waste, fraud and abuse." http://www.politifact.com/ohio/state...is-kucinich/re p-dennis-kucinich-says-gop-budget-cuts-dont-targ/ [W]e have the situation with the deficit and the debt and spending and jobs. And its not that difficult to get out of it. The first thing you do is you get rid of corporate welfare. Thats hundreds of billions of dollars a year. The second is you tax corporations so that they dont get away with no taxation. - Ralph Nader http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/19/ralph_naders_solution_to_debt_crisis |
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