What is the best way to use Epsom? As a spray for the foliage or sprinkle it around the base of the plants?

MJ

In article ,
" wrote:

What is the best way to use Epsom? As a spray for the foliage or sprinkle it
around the base of the plants?

MJ


Epsom salts has been used to relieve magnesium defi ciency found
during intensive cropping of many fruit and vegetable species worldwide.
Th ese include commonly grown North American crops such as alfalfa,
apple, beets, carrots, citrus, cauliflower, cotton, grains, hops, kale,
nuts, okra, peppers, plums, potatoes, snap beans, sugar beets, sweet
potatoes, tobacco, tomatoes, watermelon, and wine grapes, as well as
more exotic species including banana, cacao, coff ee, rubber, Swedish
turnips, and tea.

Among the diverse plant materials that have been studied under treatment
with Epsom salts, there are two commonalities: all are intensively
produced crops and all were suffering from magnesium deficiency.

There are two primary causes of magnesium defi ciency in plants:
an actual lack of soil magnesium, or an imposed defi ciency caused by
mineral imbalances in the soil or plant. Magnesium defi ciencies most
commonly occur in soils described as light, sandy, and/or acid, though
occasionally clay soils under intensive production can show
magnesium defi ciency as well.

Regardless of type, soils heavily leached by rainfall or irrigation are
more likely to exhibit magnesium defi ciency. Thus, soil addition of
highly soluble Epsom salts under leaching conditions does not benefit
magnesium-deficient plants but does increase mineral contamination of
water passing through.

To restore magnesium, buy some Epsom salts at the drugstore and add
about one tablespoon to an empty spray bottle. Then fill the bottle with
lukewarm water, shake it up so the Epsom salts dissolve and spray the
solution on the leaves and blossoms of your pepper plants.

Epsom salt solutions have been sprayed on foliage, resulting in leaf
scorch; inclusion of a wetting agent can relieve this. A teeny bit of
detergent maybe? Commercial wetting agents look pricy.
--
Remember Rachel Corrie
http://www.rachelcorrie.org/

Welcome to the New America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg

Billy wrote:
In article ,
" wrote:

What is the best way to use Epsom? As a spray for the foliage or
sprinkle it around the base of the plants?

MJ


Epsom salts has been used to relieve magnesium defi ciency found
during intensive cropping of many fruit and vegetable species
worldwide. Th ese include commonly grown North American crops such as
alfalfa, apple, beets, carrots, citrus, cauliflower, cotton, grains,
hops, kale, nuts, okra, peppers, plums, potatoes, snap beans, sugar
beets, sweet potatoes, tobacco, tomatoes, watermelon, and wine
grapes, as well as more exotic species including banana, cacao, coff
ee, rubber, Swedish turnips, and tea.

Among the diverse plant materials that have been studied under
treatment with Epsom salts, there are two commonalities: all are
intensively produced crops and all were suffering from magnesium
deficiency.

There are two primary causes of magnesium defi ciency in plants:
an actual lack of soil magnesium, or an imposed defi ciency caused by
mineral imbalances in the soil or plant. Magnesium defi ciencies most
commonly occur in soils described as light, sandy, and/or acid, though
occasionally clay soils under intensive production can show
magnesium defi ciency as well.

Regardless of type, soils heavily leached by rainfall or irrigation
are more likely to exhibit magnesium defi ciency. Thus, soil addition
of highly soluble Epsom salts under leaching conditions does not
benefit magnesium-deficient plants but does increase mineral
contamination of water passing through.

To restore magnesium, buy some Epsom salts at the drugstore and add
about one tablespoon to an empty spray bottle. Then fill the bottle
with lukewarm water, shake it up so the Epsom salts dissolve and
spray the solution on the leaves and blossoms of your pepper plants.

Epsom salt solutions have been sprayed on foliage, resulting in leaf
scorch; inclusion of a wetting agent can relieve this. A teeny bit of
detergent maybe? Commercial wetting agents look pricy.

As well as all this keep in mind that a foliar spray is a quick fix not a
long term solution and it doesn't last long. Unless you want to do it every
few weeks study your soil and see what needs to be done to provide a long
term balance of minerals.

D

On Thursday, May 30, 2013 7:22:26 PM UTC-4, David Hare-Scott wrote:
Billy wrote:

In article ,

" wrote:



What is the best way to use Epsom? As a spray for the foliage or

sprinkle it around the base of the plants?



MJ





Epsom salts has been used to relieve magnesium defi ciency found

during intensive cropping of many fruit and vegetable species

worldwide. Th ese include commonly grown North American crops such as

alfalfa, apple, beets, carrots, citrus, cauliflower, cotton, grains,

hops, kale, nuts, okra, peppers, plums, potatoes, snap beans, sugar

beets, sweet potatoes, tobacco, tomatoes, watermelon, and wine

grapes, as well as more exotic species including banana, cacao, coff

ee, rubber, Swedish turnips, and tea.



Among the diverse plant materials that have been studied under

treatment with Epsom salts, there are two commonalities: all are

intensively produced crops and all were suffering from magnesium

deficiency.



There are two primary causes of magnesium defi ciency in plants:

an actual lack of soil magnesium, or an imposed defi ciency caused by

mineral imbalances in the soil or plant. Magnesium defi ciencies most

commonly occur in soils described as light, sandy, and/or acid, though

occasionally clay soils under intensive production can show

magnesium defi ciency as well.



Regardless of type, soils heavily leached by rainfall or irrigation

are more likely to exhibit magnesium defi ciency. Thus, soil addition

of highly soluble Epsom salts under leaching conditions does not

benefit magnesium-deficient plants but does increase mineral

contamination of water passing through.



To restore magnesium, buy some Epsom salts at the drugstore and add

about one tablespoon to an empty spray bottle. Then fill the bottle

with lukewarm water, shake it up so the Epsom salts dissolve and

spray the solution on the leaves and blossoms of your pepper plants.



Epsom salt solutions have been sprayed on foliage, resulting in leaf

scorch; inclusion of a wetting agent can relieve this. A teeny bit of

detergent maybe? Commercial wetting agents look pricy.



As well as all this keep in mind that a foliar spray is a quick fix not a

long term solution and it doesn't last long. Unless you want to do it every

few weeks study your soil and see what needs to be done to provide a long

term balance of minerals.



D

Everything is fertilized with 10 10 10. The peppers (bell) do not have very thick walls and I thought I had read that this would help. There is a lot of irrigation to the garden, so am I wasting my time and effort? The burning issue concerns me too. Would early morning be enough to combat that?
MJ

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...
Billy wrote:
In article ,
" wrote:

What is the best way to use Epsom? As a spray for the foliage or
sprinkle it around the base of the plants?

MJ


Epsom salts has been used to relieve magnesium defi ciency found
during intensive cropping of many fruit and vegetable species
worldwide. Th ese include commonly grown North American crops such as
alfalfa, apple, beets, carrots, citrus, cauliflower, cotton, grains,
hops, kale, nuts, okra, peppers, plums, potatoes, snap beans, sugar
beets, sweet potatoes, tobacco, tomatoes, watermelon, and wine
grapes, as well as more exotic species including banana, cacao, coff
ee, rubber, Swedish turnips, and tea.

Among the diverse plant materials that have been studied under
treatment with Epsom salts, there are two commonalities: all are
intensively produced crops and all were suffering from magnesium
deficiency.

There are two primary causes of magnesium defi ciency in plants:
an actual lack of soil magnesium, or an imposed defi ciency caused by
mineral imbalances in the soil or plant. Magnesium defi ciencies most
commonly occur in soils described as light, sandy, and/or acid, though
occasionally clay soils under intensive production can show
magnesium defi ciency as well.

Regardless of type, soils heavily leached by rainfall or irrigation
are more likely to exhibit magnesium defi ciency. Thus, soil addition
of highly soluble Epsom salts under leaching conditions does not
benefit magnesium-deficient plants but does increase mineral
contamination of water passing through.

To restore magnesium, buy some Epsom salts at the drugstore and add
about one tablespoon to an empty spray bottle. Then fill the bottle
with lukewarm water, shake it up so the Epsom salts dissolve and
spray the solution on the leaves and blossoms of your pepper plants.

Epsom salt solutions have been sprayed on foliage, resulting in leaf
scorch; inclusion of a wetting agent can relieve this. A teeny bit of
detergent maybe? Commercial wetting agents look pricy.

As well as all this keep in mind that a foliar spray is a quick fix not a
long term solution and it doesn't last long. Unless you want to do it
every few weeks study your soil and see what needs to be done to provide a
long term balance of minerals.

D

My land is mostly oak forest , the piece where we have made a garden was
woods until recently ~12-15 yrs ago and the soil is acid enough that
low-bush huckleberries thrive . Because a local recommended it I've been
adding 1 tbsp of ES under each tomato and pepper plant as I transplant .
Seems to be working ... and much as I hated to do it , today I used some
13/13/13 on the lettuce and a couple of the tomato plants . I'd rather build
the soil naturally , with mulches and composts . But our situation won't
allow a couple of years to let the soil become productive , I have a feeling
we're gonna need it sooner rather than later . Chickens by the weekend , we
just haven't decided whether to get chicks or older birds .
--
Snag
BTW , as mentioned in my post above , this is the first time this soil has
ever been cultivated .

In article ,
"Terry Coombs" wrote:

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...
Billy wrote:
In article ,
" wrote:

What is the best way to use Epsom? As a spray for the foliage or
sprinkle it around the base of the plants?

MJ


Epsom salts has been used to relieve magnesium defi ciency found
during intensive cropping of many fruit and vegetable species
worldwide. Th ese include commonly grown North American crops such as
alfalfa, apple, beets, carrots, citrus, cauliflower, cotton, grains,
hops, kale, nuts, okra, peppers, plums, potatoes, snap beans, sugar
beets, sweet potatoes, tobacco, tomatoes, watermelon, and wine
grapes, as well as more exotic species including banana, cacao, coff
ee, rubber, Swedish turnips, and tea.

Among the diverse plant materials that have been studied under
treatment with Epsom salts, there are two commonalities: all are
intensively produced crops and all were suffering from magnesium
deficiency.

There are two primary causes of magnesium defi ciency in plants:
an actual lack of soil magnesium, or an imposed defi ciency caused by
mineral imbalances in the soil or plant. Magnesium defi ciencies most
commonly occur in soils described as light, sandy, and/or acid, though
occasionally clay soils under intensive production can show
magnesium defi ciency as well.

Regardless of type, soils heavily leached by rainfall or irrigation
are more likely to exhibit magnesium defi ciency. Thus, soil addition
of highly soluble Epsom salts under leaching conditions does not
benefit magnesium-deficient plants but does increase mineral
contamination of water passing through.

To restore magnesium, buy some Epsom salts at the drugstore and add
about one tablespoon to an empty spray bottle. Then fill the bottle
with lukewarm water, shake it up so the Epsom salts dissolve and
spray the solution on the leaves and blossoms of your pepper plants.

Epsom salt solutions have been sprayed on foliage, resulting in leaf
scorch; inclusion of a wetting agent can relieve this. A teeny bit of
detergent maybe? Commercial wetting agents look pricy.

As well as all this keep in mind that a foliar spray is a quick fix not a
long term solution and it doesn't last long. Unless you want to do it
every few weeks study your soil and see what needs to be done to provide a
long term balance of minerals.

D

My land is mostly oak forest , the piece where we have made a garden was
woods until recently ~12-15 yrs ago and the soil is acid enough that
low-bush huckleberries thrive . Because a local recommended it I've been
adding 1 tbsp of ES under each tomato and pepper plant as I transplant .
Seems to be working ... and much as I hated to do it , today I used some
13/13/13 on the lettuce and a couple of the tomato plants . I'd rather build
the soil naturally , with mulches and composts . But our situation won't
allow a couple of years to let the soil become productive , I have a feeling
we're gonna need it sooner rather than later . Chickens by the weekend , we
just haven't decided whether to get chicks or older birds .

Chickens (birds) will give your soil phosphates, too, as well as
reducing any bug problems.

"Magnesium defi ciencies most commonly occur in soils described as
light, sandy, and/or acid, though
occasionally clay soils under intensive production
can show magnesium deficiency as well."

Being reclaimed forest, you may have acidic conditions. Turning the soil
the next couple of years to incorporate organic material, and to deepen
the growing zone (top 2 ft.) will let some of the CO2 blow off, raising
the pH. Then I suggest you go to no till. Joel Salatin says that 12
worms/ sq. ft. will give you 3" of soil per year. Organic material (5%
by weight, or 10% by volume) will encourage the worms.
--
Remember Rachel Corrie
http://www.rachelcorrie.org/

Welcome to the New America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg

In article ,
" wrote:

On Thursday, May 30, 2013 7:22:26 PM UTC-4, David Hare-Scott wrote:
Billy wrote:

In article ,

" wrote:



What is the best way to use Epsom? As a spray for the foliage or

sprinkle it around the base of the plants?



MJ





Epsom salts has been used to relieve magnesium defi ciency found

during intensive cropping of many fruit and vegetable species

worldwide. Th ese include commonly grown North American crops such as

alfalfa, apple, beets, carrots, citrus, cauliflower, cotton, grains,

hops, kale, nuts, okra, peppers, plums, potatoes, snap beans, sugar

beets, sweet potatoes, tobacco, tomatoes, watermelon, and wine

grapes, as well as more exotic species including banana, cacao, coff

ee, rubber, Swedish turnips, and tea.



Among the diverse plant materials that have been studied under

treatment with Epsom salts, there are two commonalities: all are

intensively produced crops and all were suffering from magnesium

deficiency.



There are two primary causes of magnesium defi ciency in plants:

an actual lack of soil magnesium, or an imposed defi ciency caused by

mineral imbalances in the soil or plant. Magnesium deficiencies most

commonly occur in soils described as light, sandy, and/or acid, though

occasionally clay soils under intensive production can show

magnesium defi ciency as well.



Regardless of type, soils heavily leached by rainfall or irrigation

are more likely to exhibit magnesium defi ciency. Thus, soil addition

of highly soluble Epsom salts under leaching conditions does not

benefit magnesium-deficient plants but does increase mineral

contamination of water passing through.



To restore magnesium, buy some Epsom salts at the drugstore and add

about one tablespoon to an empty spray bottle. Then fill the bottle

with lukewarm water, shake it up so the Epsom salts dissolve and

spray the solution on the leaves and blossoms of your pepper plants.



Epsom salt solutions have been sprayed on foliage, resulting in leaf

scorch; inclusion of a wetting agent can relieve this. A teeny bit of

detergent maybe? Commercial wetting agents look pricy.



As well as all this keep in mind that a foliar spray is a quick fix not a

long term solution and it doesn't last long. Unless you want to do it
every

few weeks study your soil and see what needs to be done to provide a long

term balance of minerals.



D

Everything is fertilized with 10 10 10. The peppers (bell) do not have very
thick walls and I thought I had read that this would help. There is a lot of
irrigation to the garden, so am I wasting my time and effort? The burning
issue concerns me too. Would early morning be enough to combat that?
MJ

Of course I recommend that you go organic. That said, I can only
recommend you try different pepper cultivars, and find the ones that
best like your garden. Watering at levels above what is needed can
create cultivation problems (root rot), and dilute flavor in the fruits,
and vegetables.
======
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Girl

Early Girl is well suited to a technique known as "dry farming".[4]

Researchers at the Center for Agroecology and Sustainable Food Systems
at the University of California, Santa Cruz, are among those who have
described the technique: not watering tomatoes after transplanting,
forcing the roots to grow deeper to seek out moisture, producing more
"concentrated flavor," and saving water.[5]

Dry-farmed Early Girl tomatoes have a cult following, and aficionados
claim the taste of dry-farmed Early Girl tomatoes rival those of the
best-regarded heirloom tomatoes.[6][7][8]

Dry-farmed Early Girl tomatoes are popular in farmers markets in the San
Francisco Bay Area. The variety is also popular with home gardeners in
that region, where it thrives despite the area's cool and often overcast
summers.[9][10][11]

Chez Panisse founder Alice Waters is a fan of the Early Girl tomato,
telling an interviewer "[O]ne of the best tomatoes I¹ve ever had was an
Early Girl that was dry-farmed up in Napa at a friend¹s house."
======

The problem with burning is the concentration of salts in a droplet of
water. Wetting agents let the water spread out in a sheet, rather that
let the surface tension hold it together in a droplet.

Try a drop of detergent per bottle, and then spray a leaf. If droplets
persist add another drop. I wouldn't go above 10 drops (1/2 ml), but
more than that may be OK, depending on the size of the sprayer bottle.
--
Remember Rachel Corrie
http://www.rachelcorrie.org/

Welcome to the New America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg

"Billy" wrote
Being reclaimed forest, you may have acidic conditions. Turning the soil
the next couple of years to incorporate organic material, and to deepen
the growing zone (top 2 ft.) will let some of the CO2 blow off, raising
the pH. Then I suggest you go to no till. Joel Salatin says that 12
worms/ sq. ft. will give you 3" of soil per year. Organic material (5%
by weight, or 10% by volume) will encourage the worms.
--
Remember Rachel Corrie
http://www.rachelcorrie.org/

Welcome to the New America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg

Shades of Ruth Stout ! Actually , Billy , what you suggest is my basic
plan . This fall I'll be tilling some straw or hay in , followed by more
manure/compost before planting next spring . Every pass with the tiller gets
more rocks up and deepens the loosened soil a little . Light supplemental
feedings with 3/13 only if necessary . Since the ground has a slope , as I
till I'll be terracing this area .
We got between 4 and 6 inches of rain last night , looks like more of the
same tonight/tomorrow . That terracing thing helped a lot , only had a
couple of minor washouts and the county road into our place was washed out
in 5 places this morning ... .
--
Snag
Bet that 13/13/13
got washed away ...

In article ,
"Terry Coombs" wrote:

"Billy" wrote
Being reclaimed forest, you may have acidic conditions. Turning the soil
the next couple of years to incorporate organic material, and to deepen
the growing zone (top 2 ft.) will let some of the CO2 blow off, raising
the pH. Then I suggest you go to no till. Joel Salatin says that 12
worms/ sq. ft. will give you 3" of soil per year. Organic material (5%
by weight, or 10% by volume) will encourage the worms.
--
Remember Rachel Corrie
http://www.rachelcorrie.org/

Welcome to the New America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg

Shades of Ruth Stout ! Actually , Billy , what you suggest is my basic
plan . This fall I'll be tilling some straw or hay in , followed by more
manure/compost before planting next spring . Every pass with the tiller gets
more rocks up and deepens the loosened soil a little . Light supplemental
feedings with 3/13 only if necessary . Since the ground has a slope , as I
till I'll be terracing this area .
We got between 4 and 6 inches of rain last night , looks like more of the
same tonight/tomorrow . That terracing thing helped a lot , only had a
couple of minor washouts and the county road into our place was washed out
in 5 places this morning ... .
--
Snag
Bet that 13/13/13
got washed away ...

Clay may have held on to part of it, but that is part of the beauty of
organic fertilizers, they are more likely to stay put.
--
Remember Rachel Corrie
http://www.rachelcorrie.org/

Welcome to the New America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg

wrote:

Epsom salt solutions have been sprayed on foliage, resulting in leaf

scorch; inclusion of a wetting agent can relieve this. A teeny bit
of

detergent maybe? Commercial wetting agents look pricy.



As well as all this keep in mind that a foliar spray is a quick fix
not a

long term solution and it doesn't last long. Unless you want to do
it every

few weeks study your soil and see what needs to be done to provide a
long

term balance of minerals.



D

Everything is fertilized with 10 10 10. The peppers (bell) do not
have very thick walls and I thought I had read that this would help.
There is a lot of irrigation to the garden, so am I wasting my time
and effort? The burning issue concerns me too. Would early morning be
enough to combat that?
MJ

I am assuming you have good reason to think your soil is deficient in
magnesium. If this is just a guess on your part it might be easier to do
some testing before springing into action. If the only indicator you have
is the thickness of the walls of your peppers then consider that this may be
the cultivar you have not the environment. For example the 'bulls horn'
capsicum (sweet pepper) has much thinner walls than the short square kind.

First check the pH of your soil, if it is too low instead of raising it with
garden lime try dolomite instead which contains magnesium as well as
calcium. This form of magnesium is nowhere near as soluble as epsom salts
and so it will last longer.

Keeping the magnesium in the soil also depends on the presence of colloids
such as those in clay or compost (look up cation exchange capacity).
Retentive soil will always be easier to maintain minerals compared to very
sandy soil. This does not apply just to magnesium but all minerals. So the
long term solution would include the steps: getting the pH right, get the
exchange capacity up and add a source of magnesium if required.

D

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Terry Coombs" wrote:

"Billy" wrote
Being reclaimed forest, you may have acidic conditions. Turning the
soil
the next couple of years to incorporate organic material, and to deepen
the growing zone (top 2 ft.) will let some of the CO2 blow off, raising
the pH. Then I suggest you go to no till. Joel Salatin says that 12
worms/ sq. ft. will give you 3" of soil per year. Organic material (5%
by weight, or 10% by volume) will encourage the worms.
--
Remember Rachel Corrie
http://www.rachelcorrie.org/

Welcome to the New America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg

Shades of Ruth Stout ! Actually , Billy , what you suggest is my basic
plan . This fall I'll be tilling some straw or hay in , followed by more
manure/compost before planting next spring . Every pass with the tiller
gets
more rocks up and deepens the loosened soil a little . Light
supplemental
feedings with 3/13 only if necessary . Since the ground has a slope , as
I
till I'll be terracing this area .
We got between 4 and 6 inches of rain last night , looks like more of
the
same tonight/tomorrow . That terracing thing helped a lot , only had a
couple of minor washouts and the county road into our place was washed
out
in 5 places this morning ... .
--
Snag
Bet that 13/13/13
got washed away ...

Clay may have held on to part of it, but that is part of the beauty of
organic fertilizers, they are more likely to stay put.
--


Every hole/hill I planted a seed or start in was a 50/50 mix of soil and
manure/compost . The row stuff all got a side dressing of same m/c on the
uphill side . Got 2 bags of straight manure to be added as the season
progresses . So far weeds haven't been a problem .
--
Snag

Terry Coombs wrote:
David Hare-Scott wrote:
....
As well as all this keep in mind that a foliar spray is a quick fix not a
long term solution and it doesn't last long. Unless you want to do it
every few weeks study your soil and see what needs to be done to provide a
long term balance of minerals.

My land is mostly oak forest , the piece where we have made a garden was
woods until recently ~12-15 yrs ago and the soil is acid enough that
low-bush huckleberries thrive . Because a local recommended it I've been
adding 1 tbsp of ES under each tomato and pepper plant as I transplant .
Seems to be working ... and much as I hated to do it , today I used some
13/13/13 on the lettuce and a couple of the tomato plants . I'd rather build
the soil naturally , with mulches and composts . But our situation won't
allow a couple of years to let the soil become productive , I have a feeling
we're gonna need it sooner rather than later . Chickens by the weekend , we
just haven't decided whether to get chicks or older birds .

if you have scrub woods that you can trim back
you can use the green leaves in a mulch pile
and chip the wood and add that. use agricultural
lime to increase the pH, short term the finest
powder acts quickest, for a longer term amendment
use limestone grit.

it doesn't take much to get worms going and
they can generate many lbs of calcium rich compost.
a few yards within a year.

pigs can do a lot of conversion of forest grub
into manure. i'm not into using animals here on
this small a site, but a larger farm with more
acres and plenty of woods might support a small
population of pigs in rotation to clean up the
acorns and fruit tree droppings. but then you
have to be a farmer/farmer for that as once
you have animals to take care of then that's a
whole different arrangement than if you are
just doing veggies and worm wrangling (both of
these you can leave go for a few days if you
have to).

for a free range bird fertilizer solution a few
of the permaculture authors recommend having a
pigeon loft as then you can get the droppings
underneath there for the scraping when you need
hot fertilizer or extra nitrogen for the compost
heap. i'd probably just site the compost heap
under the pigeon roost -- then once in a while
add a layer of carbon and dirt and water it a
bit. empty it once a year and start over...
the birds are unpaid employees gathering bugs,
fruits, seeds, etc. and turning them into free
fertilizer. i like this approach even better
than having chickens. sometime in the future i
hope to raise quail, pheasants and/or bob whites
as they can free range and i don't have to go
after them for meat or eggs if i don't want to.
just be nice to have more of them around again.


songbird

"songbird" wrote in message
news
Terry Coombs wrote:
David Hare-Scott wrote:
...
As well as all this keep in mind that a foliar spray is a quick fix not
a
long term solution and it doesn't last long. Unless you want to do it
every few weeks study your soil and see what needs to be done to provide
a
long term balance of minerals.

My land is mostly oak forest , the piece where we have made a garden
was
woods until recently ~12-15 yrs ago and the soil is acid enough that
low-bush huckleberries thrive . Because a local recommended it I've been
adding 1 tbsp of ES under each tomato and pepper plant as I transplant .
Seems to be working ... and much as I hated to do it , today I used some
13/13/13 on the lettuce and a couple of the tomato plants . I'd rather
build
the soil naturally , with mulches and composts . But our situation won't
allow a couple of years to let the soil become productive , I have a
feeling
we're gonna need it sooner rather than later . Chickens by the weekend ,
we
just haven't decided whether to get chicks or older birds .

if you have scrub woods that you can trim back
you can use the green leaves in a mulch pile
and chip the wood and add that. use agricultural
lime to increase the pH, short term the finest
powder acts quickest, for a longer term amendment
use limestone grit.

it doesn't take much to get worms going and
they can generate many lbs of calcium rich compost.
a few yards within a year.

pigs can do a lot of conversion of forest grub
into manure. i'm not into using animals here on
this small a site, but a larger farm with more
acres and plenty of woods might support a small
population of pigs in rotation to clean up the
acorns and fruit tree droppings. but then you
have to be a farmer/farmer for that as once
you have animals to take care of then that's a
whole different arrangement than if you are
just doing veggies and worm wrangling (both of
these you can leave go for a few days if you
have to).

for a free range bird fertilizer solution a few
of the permaculture authors recommend having a
pigeon loft as then you can get the droppings
underneath there for the scraping when you need
hot fertilizer or extra nitrogen for the compost
heap. i'd probably just site the compost heap
under the pigeon roost -- then once in a while
add a layer of carbon and dirt and water it a
bit. empty it once a year and start over...
the birds are unpaid employees gathering bugs,
fruits, seeds, etc. and turning them into free
fertilizer. i like this approach even better
than having chickens. sometime in the future i
hope to raise quail, pheasants and/or bob whites
as they can free range and i don't have to go
after them for meat or eggs if i don't want to.
just be nice to have more of them around again.


songbird

Hmm , not sure my neighbors would hold still for pigs , and no way we can
let 'em roam the woods . Already got a big problem in this area with feral
swine , and I won't take a chance here . The chickens are another thing
entirely , several neighbors let theirs roam during the day - though Tom
down the road lost a couple last week , he thinks a fox got 'em . And during
the day ! Great benefit here to let chickens roam , they take care of the
ticks ... only potential problem is the dog . She's never been around birds
, might decide they look tasty . And she's big enough to easily take one
down .
A goat , on the other hand , is quite likely to do well here neighbor has
one , it hangs pretty close . Get a nanny , let 'er breed , and we'll have
meat AND milk ! Can you say goat cheese ?
--
Snag
And his
12 acre
"farm" .

Terry Coombs wrote:
....
Hmm , not sure my neighbors would hold still for pigs , and no way we can
let 'em roam the woods . Already got a big problem in this area with feral
swine , and I won't take a chance here .

i didn't mean let loose without fencing and
tags, perhaps even making sure they are sterile
so even if they did get loose they couldn't
procreate.

feral pigs are on the upswing around here too.
haven't seen any yet on this property. it is
open-season on them any time.


The chickens are another thing
entirely , several neighbors let theirs roam during the day - though Tom
down the road lost a couple last week , he thinks a fox got 'em . And during
the day ! Great benefit here to let chickens roam , they take care of the
ticks ...

they can strip a green area bare and scratch
the soil searching for bugs. some people use
them to clear gardens before or after harvest.


only potential problem is the dog . She's never been around birds
, might decide they look tasty . And she's big enough to easily take one
down .

i think if you raise them from eggs or chicks
the dog might cope better. if you can find a
broody hen to take care of them even better
(so they would be raised as normal birds and
have some protection by an adult bird)...


songbird

On Thursday, May 30, 2013 7:42:42 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thursday, May 30, 2013 7:22:26 PM UTC-4, David Hare-Scott wrote:

Billy wrote:



In article ,



" wrote:







What is the best way to use Epsom? As a spray for the foliage or



sprinkle it around the base of the plants?







MJ











Epsom salts has been used to relieve magnesium defi ciency found



during intensive cropping of many fruit and vegetable species



worldwide. Th ese include commonly grown North American crops such as



alfalfa, apple, beets, carrots, citrus, cauliflower, cotton, grains,



hops, kale, nuts, okra, peppers, plums, potatoes, snap beans, sugar



beets, sweet potatoes, tobacco, tomatoes, watermelon, and wine



grapes, as well as more exotic species including banana, cacao, coff



ee, rubber, Swedish turnips, and tea.







Among the diverse plant materials that have been studied under



treatment with Epsom salts, there are two commonalities: all are



intensively produced crops and all were suffering from magnesium



deficiency.







There are two primary causes of magnesium defi ciency in plants:



an actual lack of soil magnesium, or an imposed defi ciency caused by



mineral imbalances in the soil or plant. Magnesium defi ciencies most



commonly occur in soils described as light, sandy, and/or acid, though



occasionally clay soils under intensive production can show



magnesium defi ciency as well.







Regardless of type, soils heavily leached by rainfall or irrigation



are more likely to exhibit magnesium defi ciency. Thus, soil addition



of highly soluble Epsom salts under leaching conditions does not



benefit magnesium-deficient plants but does increase mineral



contamination of water passing through.







To restore magnesium, buy some Epsom salts at the drugstore and add



about one tablespoon to an empty spray bottle. Then fill the bottle



with lukewarm water, shake it up so the Epsom salts dissolve and



spray the solution on the leaves and blossoms of your pepper plants.







Epsom salt solutions have been sprayed on foliage, resulting in leaf



scorch; inclusion of a wetting agent can relieve this. A teeny bit of



detergent maybe? Commercial wetting agents look pricy.







As well as all this keep in mind that a foliar spray is a quick fix not a



long term solution and it doesn't last long. Unless you want to do it every



few weeks study your soil and see what needs to be done to provide a long



term balance of minerals.







D



Everything is fertilized with 10 10 10. The peppers (bell) do not have very thick walls and I thought I had read that this would help. There is a lot of irrigation to the garden, so am I wasting my time and effort? The burning issue concerns me too. Would early morning be enough to combat that?

MJ

I have had the soil tested many times at through the cooperative extension office but it has been a few years. I don't remember the exact results but there was never anything that stood out and the 10 10 10 was their recommendation. The soil is fairly sandy and slightly acidic due to the pine trees near by. I have never been able to figure out what is in the soil that causes my tomato plants to develop wilt but they do every year. In fact I took some dirt out of the garden, put it in a pot, planted the tomato plant and it too has wilted.
But back to the peppers, I put a tablespoon of the Epsom Salt around the base of each plant and I sware the plants are greener. How often should or can I do this? The garden is watered twice a day for 15 minutes. The plants are just getting flowers.

MJ