On 04/17/2016 08:25 PM, songbird wrote:
T wrote:
songbird wrote:
if you
got time to go around dumping or spraying you got time
to pull it or smother it IMO.

Hi Songbird,

Some blabbing and a question on the bottom for you.

Since I let my back lawn go to seed last year in hope of replacing it
with a garden, I now have weeds I never knew existed.

weeds are free organic matter, if they will grow
where nothing else will they can then be chopped
and used for other things, like building mulch or
topsoil fertility.


On of them looks like a small shade tree and it pulls really easily.
The rest suck to the ground, like the dandelions that won't die.
I have to dig these up with a shovel, which is no easy task
considering you can make some really awesome bricks out of
my soil.

My soil isn't soil anyway. I know the guy who graded my property.
My back yard is 20 feet down from top soil. It is basically
rocks and decomposed sandstone (like decomposed granite,
only way, way uglier). If you strike the ground to hard with
a shovel, it literally sparks.

How some of these weeks managed to bore their roots down in the
stuff, I will never know. And, you can only cut their tops off.
Then they grow right back and back and back. So vinegar and
soap it is, less the salt. Cussing at them doesn't work either.

The back yard is too big to cover in cardboard or plastic,
especially with the high winds we have. (Two category one
hurricane force winds last January.) Rock gardens work
with visqueen.

rock gardens are just fine ways to cover an area.
we have plenty of those here ourselves.

also, if you do not need it for anything is there
any reason to do anything with it at all? we have
some land here on the other side of the large drainage
ditch. i'd like to put some fruit trees back there
but it's so far back there and hard to get to right
now that it's just growing small shrubs and trees
now. i'll need to cut it all back in the next few
years if i don't want it to turn into woodland/trees.


Also, this is one for you. My blue garlic comes out pink.
I was told that this is because my soil is very alkaline
(verified by the local nursery lady.) I little vinegar
may help. Your thoughts?

if you are just going to grow a few plants, i would
bring in some good topsoil add some composted cow manure
and any other organic materials i could scrounge up.

make sure the area is leveled and drainage is good
and also make sure there is a wind break to protect
against the drying winds.

that will solve the poor soil problem and your
pH will be corrected.

for the rest of the area as you can scrounge free
organic materials and chop and drop whatever weeds
that grow to get your topsoil developing environment
going. as most of the processes of forming topsoil
involve moisture it is better to have things piled
deep enough to preserve moisture than to scatter
your efforts widely. you might also be able to
scrounge free fill that is better than what you
have. even if you have to do it a few yards at a
time...

as you get an area covered and able to absorb and
store moisture then it will support worm and other
soil community creatures (you may need to innoculate
the area with soil from a healthy area). these build
topsoil and support plant life. your pH will change
as more organic matter is added.

it's just a matter of scale, what you want to put
into it, how much money you want to spend, and how
much you're willing to be patient while nature does
some work for you.


songbird


Thank you. I am wondering where to get some cow poop.
We have lots of cows about, but I haven't seen anyone
selling it.

I got in late last night. I put my headset on and cut
a four foot wide swath through the weeds. When I am done
picking them and they dry out a bit, I am planning on
digging them into holes that I will eventually
plant zukes in.

Here is an interesting observation. I think the weeds
were always there in my lawn. When the grass dies,
the weeds stayed.

On 4/19/2016 3:04 PM, T wrote:
On 04/17/2016 08:25 PM, songbird wrote:
T wrote:
songbird wrote:
if you
got time to go around dumping or spraying you got time
to pull it or smother it IMO.

Hi Songbird,

Some blabbing and a question on the bottom for you.

Since I let my back lawn go to seed last year in hope of replacing it
with a garden, I now have weeds I never knew existed.

weeds are free organic matter, if they will grow
where nothing else will they can then be chopped
and used for other things, like building mulch or
topsoil fertility.


On of them looks like a small shade tree and it pulls really easily.
The rest suck to the ground, like the dandelions that won't die.
I have to dig these up with a shovel, which is no easy task
considering you can make some really awesome bricks out of
my soil.

My soil isn't soil anyway. I know the guy who graded my property.
My back yard is 20 feet down from top soil. It is basically
rocks and decomposed sandstone (like decomposed granite,
only way, way uglier). If you strike the ground to hard with
a shovel, it literally sparks.

How some of these weeks managed to bore their roots down in the
stuff, I will never know. And, you can only cut their tops off.
Then they grow right back and back and back. So vinegar and
soap it is, less the salt. Cussing at them doesn't work either.

The back yard is too big to cover in cardboard or plastic,
especially with the high winds we have. (Two category one
hurricane force winds last January.) Rock gardens work
with visqueen.

rock gardens are just fine ways to cover an area.
we have plenty of those here ourselves.

also, if you do not need it for anything is there
any reason to do anything with it at all? we have
some land here on the other side of the large drainage
ditch. i'd like to put some fruit trees back there
but it's so far back there and hard to get to right
now that it's just growing small shrubs and trees
now. i'll need to cut it all back in the next few
years if i don't want it to turn into woodland/trees.


Also, this is one for you. My blue garlic comes out pink.
I was told that this is because my soil is very alkaline
(verified by the local nursery lady.) I little vinegar
may help. Your thoughts?

if you are just going to grow a few plants, i would
bring in some good topsoil add some composted cow manure
and any other organic materials i could scrounge up.

make sure the area is leveled and drainage is good
and also make sure there is a wind break to protect
against the drying winds.

that will solve the poor soil problem and your
pH will be corrected.

for the rest of the area as you can scrounge free
organic materials and chop and drop whatever weeds
that grow to get your topsoil developing environment
going. as most of the processes of forming topsoil
involve moisture it is better to have things piled
deep enough to preserve moisture than to scatter
your efforts widely. you might also be able to
scrounge free fill that is better than what you
have. even if you have to do it a few yards at a
time...

as you get an area covered and able to absorb and
store moisture then it will support worm and other
soil community creatures (you may need to innoculate
the area with soil from a healthy area). these build
topsoil and support plant life. your pH will change
as more organic matter is added.

it's just a matter of scale, what you want to put
into it, how much money you want to spend, and how
much you're willing to be patient while nature does
some work for you.


songbird


Thank you. I am wondering where to get some cow poop.
We have lots of cows about, but I haven't seen anyone
selling it.
We've had good luck in asking about getting the cow manure and shovel it
yourself into a trailer or pick-up. Worked for us for many years. There
is a compost called "Black Cow" available at Lowe's. Now that we
basically live on the outskirts of Houston, TX that's where we get our
manure. Works well.

I got in late last night. I put my headset on and cut
a four foot wide swath through the weeds. When I am done
picking them and they dry out a bit, I am planning on
digging them into holes that I will eventually
plant zukes in.
The smaller you cut the weeds the faster they rot. I usually run over
them with the mower two or three times and it gets smaller each time

Here is an interesting observation. I think the weeds
were always there in my lawn. When the grass dies,
the weeds stayed.
Weeds are much hardier than grass. We are pestered with dandelions and
nut grass, takes patience and finger strength to get the !@#$% things
out of the ground. Wife enjoys it so I let her take the lead on weed
pulling. She lived further out in the country than I did before we
married. G

George Shirley wrote:
....
Weeds are much hardier than grass. We are pestered with dandelions and
nut grass, takes patience and finger strength to get the !@#$% things
out of the ground. Wife enjoys it so I let her take the lead on weed
pulling. She lived further out in the country than I did before we
married. G

hahaha...

we have areas where we've never weeded. the rabbits seem
to selectively eat the weeds and leave most of the grass
alone. we just mow it once in a while with a mulching mower
so there is no raking involved.

there is a few areas that are crab grass invaded but those
are all patches that exist because Ma sprays herbicides and
it leaves bare soil that the crab grass will get going in
too easily. i try to keep them weeded if i can, but i can't
always keep up so it's just what it is. if i stay longer
term all the grass will be turned into gardens and the
mower will go away. i can trim some areas with the hedge
trimmer or a string trimmer (with a cutting blade) as needed.

alfalfa is a good crop for green manure (free N fertilizer).


songbird

On 4/19/2016 7:59 PM, songbird wrote:
George Shirley wrote:
...
Weeds are much hardier than grass. We are pestered with dandelions and
nut grass, takes patience and finger strength to get the !@#$% things
out of the ground. Wife enjoys it so I let her take the lead on weed
pulling. She lived further out in the country than I did before we
married. G

hahaha...

we have areas where we've never weeded. the rabbits seem
to selectively eat the weeds and leave most of the grass
alone. we just mow it once in a while with a mulching mower
so there is no raking involved.
We haven't seen any rabbits yet. Wouldn't mind seeing one in the
evening, break out the air rifle with the suppressor and the scope, runs
at about 1250 fps and should take out a rabbit for dinner.

A flock of white Muscovy ducks landed on the retention pond this
afternoon. They're not native so they're free game. Unfortunately there
were people walking around the pond. Dang!

there is a few areas that are crab grass invaded but those
are all patches that exist because Ma sprays herbicides and
it leaves bare soil that the crab grass will get going in
too easily. i try to keep them weeded if i can, but i can't
always keep up so it's just what it is. if i stay longer
term all the grass will be turned into gardens and the
mower will go away. i can trim some areas with the hedge
trimmer or a string trimmer (with a cutting blade) as needed.

alfalfa is a good crop for green manure (free N fertilizer).


songbird

We got a truck load of spoiled alfalfa many years ago for free and
another truck load of spoiled plain grass hay. Big storm east of us and
caught some truckers without cover. Friend of mine who was dealing with
them had them come over to our old place with 10 acres and the unloaded
on us. Stacked the bales around the big garden up to about eight feet
tall and the tomatoes and peppers made fruit all winter. Gradually it
all rotted away, pulled out the strings and scattered over a place we
wanted to turn into a bean field. Had lots of beans and other veggies
for several years.

Haven't seen any hay truck but once since then. Don't think we had any
droughts for a long time either.

No rain today, maybe tomorrow. Gardens and other plants got so much
water this past week we're having to fertilize again.

George

On 04/19/2016 06:12 PM, George Shirley wrote:
On 4/19/2016 7:59 PM, songbird wrote:
George Shirley wrote:
...
Weeds are much hardier than grass. We are pestered with dandelions and
nut grass, takes patience and finger strength to get the !@#$% things
out of the ground. Wife enjoys it so I let her take the lead on weed
pulling. She lived further out in the country than I did before we
married. G

hahaha...

we have areas where we've never weeded. the rabbits seem
to selectively eat the weeds and leave most of the grass
alone. we just mow it once in a while with a mulching mower
so there is no raking involved.
We haven't seen any rabbits yet. Wouldn't mind seeing one in the
evening, break out the air rifle with the suppressor and the scope, runs
at about 1250 fps and should take out a rabbit for dinner.

A flock of white Muscovy ducks landed on the retention pond this
afternoon. They're not native so they're free game. Unfortunately there
were people walking around the pond. Dang!

there is a few areas that are crab grass invaded but those
are all patches that exist because Ma sprays herbicides and
it leaves bare soil that the crab grass will get going in
too easily. i try to keep them weeded if i can, but i can't
always keep up so it's just what it is. if i stay longer
term all the grass will be turned into gardens and the
mower will go away. i can trim some areas with the hedge
trimmer or a string trimmer (with a cutting blade) as needed.

alfalfa is a good crop for green manure (free N fertilizer).


songbird

We got a truck load of spoiled alfalfa many years ago for free and
another truck load of spoiled plain grass hay. Big storm east of us and
caught some truckers without cover. Friend of mine who was dealing with
them had them come over to our old place with 10 acres and the unloaded
on us. Stacked the bales around the big garden up to about eight feet
tall and the tomatoes and peppers made fruit all winter. Gradually it
all rotted away, pulled out the strings and scattered over a place we
wanted to turn into a bean field. Had lots of beans and other veggies
for several years.

Haven't seen any hay truck but once since then. Don't think we had any
droughts for a long time either.

No rain today, maybe tomorrow. Gardens and other plants got so much
water this past week we're having to fertilize again.

George

Texas rains can be something to behold!

I can grow carp. Well except weeds. Maybe I can coax my purslane
to choke out the weeds. It hasn't come up yet this year.

On 4/20/2016 7:17 PM, T wrote:
On 04/19/2016 06:12 PM, George Shirley wrote:
On 4/19/2016 7:59 PM, songbird wrote:
George Shirley wrote:
...
Weeds are much hardier than grass. We are pestered with dandelions and
nut grass, takes patience and finger strength to get the !@#$% things
out of the ground. Wife enjoys it so I let her take the lead on weed
pulling. She lived further out in the country than I did before we
married. G

hahaha...

we have areas where we've never weeded. the rabbits seem
to selectively eat the weeds and leave most of the grass
alone. we just mow it once in a while with a mulching mower
so there is no raking involved.
We haven't seen any rabbits yet. Wouldn't mind seeing one in the
evening, break out the air rifle with the suppressor and the scope, runs
at about 1250 fps and should take out a rabbit for dinner.

A flock of white Muscovy ducks landed on the retention pond this
afternoon. They're not native so they're free game. Unfortunately there
were people walking around the pond. Dang!

there is a few areas that are crab grass invaded but those
are all patches that exist because Ma sprays herbicides and
it leaves bare soil that the crab grass will get going in
too easily. i try to keep them weeded if i can, but i can't
always keep up so it's just what it is. if i stay longer
term all the grass will be turned into gardens and the
mower will go away. i can trim some areas with the hedge
trimmer or a string trimmer (with a cutting blade) as needed.

alfalfa is a good crop for green manure (free N fertilizer).


songbird

We got a truck load of spoiled alfalfa many years ago for free and
another truck load of spoiled plain grass hay. Big storm east of us and
caught some truckers without cover. Friend of mine who was dealing with
them had them come over to our old place with 10 acres and the unloaded
on us. Stacked the bales around the big garden up to about eight feet
tall and the tomatoes and peppers made fruit all winter. Gradually it
all rotted away, pulled out the strings and scattered over a place we
wanted to turn into a bean field. Had lots of beans and other veggies
for several years.

Haven't seen any hay truck but once since then. Don't think we had any
droughts for a long time either.

No rain today, maybe tomorrow. Gardens and other plants got so much
water this past week we're having to fertilize again.

George

Texas rains can be something to behold!

I can grow carp. Well except weeds. Maybe I can coax my purslane
to choke out the weeds. It hasn't come up yet this year.
To be a decent gardener you have to understand your climate, the rain
patterns, what the soil is made of, and, even then, you can lose. Think
of it as something fun to do and you won't go completely bonkers.

George Shirley wrote:
....
To be a decent gardener you have to understand your climate, the rain
patterns, what the soil is made of, and, even then, you can lose. Think
of it as something fun to do and you won't go completely bonkers.

i agree, some crops you may not succeed with some years,
but it helps to pay attention and read what you can on
soils/plants/biology/botany/etc.

what i've noticed here is that planting diversity helps
keep me more interested too. that even if some patches
don't make it some others might.

i really don't mind weeds and untidyness in the gardens.
i'd much rather have something growing in a spot than having
bare dirt. to me weeds are free energy collectors and free
worm food. when i do need a space i dig a hole and bury the
weeds and then plant over them. by the time the seedlings
get their roots down very far the worst of the fermentation
has happened and the worms are in there doing their thing.

only a few select weeds survive this kind of treatment and
their roots need to be dried out before they get buried (sow
thistle, thistles in general, dandelions, queen anne's lace,
chickory, potatoes).


songbird

T wrote:
....
I can grow carp. Well except weeds. Maybe I can coax my purslane
to choke out the weeds. It hasn't come up yet this year.

put a few carp in your zuke mounds! at the bottom. best
fertilizer ever.

purslane grows well here too. starts too late to be a
good ground cover (grows here as an annual). mixed with
other things it's ok. see if you can get some alfalfa
going.


songbird

On 04/21/2016 10:38 AM, songbird wrote:
T wrote:
...
I can grow carp. Well except weeds. Maybe I can coax my purslane
to choke out the weeds. It hasn't come up yet this year.

put a few carp in your zuke mounds! at the bottom. best
fertilizer ever.

A few of the local fishing pons have goldfish (ugly carp) in
them from individuals that forgot to flush them. They mess up
the pond pretty bad. Haven't figured out how to catch
them yet.



purslane grows well here too. starts too late to be a
good ground cover (grows here as an annual). mixed with
other things it's ok. see if you can get some alfalfa
going.


songbird


I just found my purslane sprouts coming up yesterday!

There is a huge debate around these parts that zukes do
better without mounds. So far the flat earth crown is
winning with a higher yield. What are your thoughts?

Also, in my garage, I was going to pot my tomatillos
and zukes next week. We will have freezing nights
still till June. So I put my little pots over by
my garage windows and take them out side during the
warmth of the day (~65-75F), then take them back in a
night. Your thoughts?

Thank you for helping me with this!

On 04/19/2016 02:02 PM, George Shirley wrote:
On 4/19/2016 3:04 PM, T wrote:
On 04/17/2016 08:25 PM, songbird wrote:
T wrote:
songbird wrote:
if you
got time to go around dumping or spraying you got time
to pull it or smother it IMO.

Hi Songbird,

Some blabbing and a question on the bottom for you.

Since I let my back lawn go to seed last year in hope of replacing it
with a garden, I now have weeds I never knew existed.

weeds are free organic matter, if they will grow
where nothing else will they can then be chopped
and used for other things, like building mulch or
topsoil fertility.


On of them looks like a small shade tree and it pulls really easily.
The rest suck to the ground, like the dandelions that won't die.
I have to dig these up with a shovel, which is no easy task
considering you can make some really awesome bricks out of
my soil.

My soil isn't soil anyway. I know the guy who graded my property.
My back yard is 20 feet down from top soil. It is basically
rocks and decomposed sandstone (like decomposed granite,
only way, way uglier). If you strike the ground to hard with
a shovel, it literally sparks.

How some of these weeks managed to bore their roots down in the
stuff, I will never know. And, you can only cut their tops off.
Then they grow right back and back and back. So vinegar and
soap it is, less the salt. Cussing at them doesn't work either.

The back yard is too big to cover in cardboard or plastic,
especially with the high winds we have. (Two category one
hurricane force winds last January.) Rock gardens work
with visqueen.

rock gardens are just fine ways to cover an area.
we have plenty of those here ourselves.

also, if you do not need it for anything is there
any reason to do anything with it at all? we have
some land here on the other side of the large drainage
ditch. i'd like to put some fruit trees back there
but it's so far back there and hard to get to right
now that it's just growing small shrubs and trees
now. i'll need to cut it all back in the next few
years if i don't want it to turn into woodland/trees.


Also, this is one for you. My blue garlic comes out pink.
I was told that this is because my soil is very alkaline
(verified by the local nursery lady.) I little vinegar
may help. Your thoughts?

if you are just going to grow a few plants, i would
bring in some good topsoil add some composted cow manure
and any other organic materials i could scrounge up.

make sure the area is leveled and drainage is good
and also make sure there is a wind break to protect
against the drying winds.

that will solve the poor soil problem and your
pH will be corrected.

for the rest of the area as you can scrounge free
organic materials and chop and drop whatever weeds
that grow to get your topsoil developing environment
going. as most of the processes of forming topsoil
involve moisture it is better to have things piled
deep enough to preserve moisture than to scatter
your efforts widely. you might also be able to
scrounge free fill that is better than what you
have. even if you have to do it a few yards at a
time...

as you get an area covered and able to absorb and
store moisture then it will support worm and other
soil community creatures (you may need to innoculate
the area with soil from a healthy area). these build
topsoil and support plant life. your pH will change
as more organic matter is added.

it's just a matter of scale, what you want to put
into it, how much money you want to spend, and how
much you're willing to be patient while nature does
some work for you.


songbird


Thank you. I am wondering where to get some cow poop.
We have lots of cows about, but I haven't seen anyone
selling it.
We've had good luck in asking about getting the cow manure and shovel it
yourself into a trailer or pick-up. Worked for us for many years. There
is a compost called "Black Cow" available at Lowe's. Now that we
basically live on the outskirts of Houston, TX that's where we get our
manure. Works well.

I got in late last night. I put my headset on and cut
a four foot wide swath through the weeds. When I am done
picking them and they dry out a bit, I am planning on
digging them into holes that I will eventually
plant zukes in.
The smaller you cut the weeds the faster they rot. I usually run over
them with the mower two or three times and it gets smaller each time

Here is an interesting observation. I think the weeds
were always there in my lawn. When the grass dies,
the weeds stayed.
Weeds are much hardier than grass. We are pestered with dandelions and
nut grass, takes patience and finger strength to get the !@#$% things
out of the ground. Wife enjoys it so I let her take the lead on weed
pulling. She lived further out in the country than I did before we
married. G

Thank you!

No pickup truck and no lawn mover.

Just out of curiosity, how deep do you have to go to
keep the little buzzards seeds/root from coming back up?

I am planning on planting two more Ponderosa Pines to kep
my other one company. Their needles will eventually acidify
the soil and provide some ground cover.

On 4/20/2016 7:15 PM, T wrote:
On 04/19/2016 02:02 PM, George Shirley wrote:
On 4/19/2016 3:04 PM, T wrote:
On 04/17/2016 08:25 PM, songbird wrote:
T wrote:
songbird wrote:
if you
got time to go around dumping or spraying you got time
to pull it or smother it IMO.

Hi Songbird,

Some blabbing and a question on the bottom for you.

Since I let my back lawn go to seed last year in hope of replacing it
with a garden, I now have weeds I never knew existed.

weeds are free organic matter, if they will grow
where nothing else will they can then be chopped
and used for other things, like building mulch or
topsoil fertility.


On of them looks like a small shade tree and it pulls really easily.
The rest suck to the ground, like the dandelions that won't die.
I have to dig these up with a shovel, which is no easy task
considering you can make some really awesome bricks out of
my soil.

My soil isn't soil anyway. I know the guy who graded my property.
My back yard is 20 feet down from top soil. It is basically
rocks and decomposed sandstone (like decomposed granite,
only way, way uglier). If you strike the ground to hard with
a shovel, it literally sparks.

How some of these weeks managed to bore their roots down in the
stuff, I will never know. And, you can only cut their tops off.
Then they grow right back and back and back. So vinegar and
soap it is, less the salt. Cussing at them doesn't work either.

The back yard is too big to cover in cardboard or plastic,
especially with the high winds we have. (Two category one
hurricane force winds last January.) Rock gardens work
with visqueen.

rock gardens are just fine ways to cover an area.
we have plenty of those here ourselves.

also, if you do not need it for anything is there
any reason to do anything with it at all? we have
some land here on the other side of the large drainage
ditch. i'd like to put some fruit trees back there
but it's so far back there and hard to get to right
now that it's just growing small shrubs and trees
now. i'll need to cut it all back in the next few
years if i don't want it to turn into woodland/trees.


Also, this is one for you. My blue garlic comes out pink.
I was told that this is because my soil is very alkaline
(verified by the local nursery lady.) I little vinegar
may help. Your thoughts?

if you are just going to grow a few plants, i would
bring in some good topsoil add some composted cow manure
and any other organic materials i could scrounge up.

make sure the area is leveled and drainage is good
and also make sure there is a wind break to protect
against the drying winds.

that will solve the poor soil problem and your
pH will be corrected.

for the rest of the area as you can scrounge free
organic materials and chop and drop whatever weeds
that grow to get your topsoil developing environment
going. as most of the processes of forming topsoil
involve moisture it is better to have things piled
deep enough to preserve moisture than to scatter
your efforts widely. you might also be able to
scrounge free fill that is better than what you
have. even if you have to do it a few yards at a
time...

as you get an area covered and able to absorb and
store moisture then it will support worm and other
soil community creatures (you may need to innoculate
the area with soil from a healthy area). these build
topsoil and support plant life. your pH will change
as more organic matter is added.

it's just a matter of scale, what you want to put
into it, how much money you want to spend, and how
much you're willing to be patient while nature does
some work for you.


songbird


Thank you. I am wondering where to get some cow poop.
We have lots of cows about, but I haven't seen anyone
selling it.
We've had good luck in asking about getting the cow manure and shovel it
yourself into a trailer or pick-up. Worked for us for many years. There
is a compost called "Black Cow" available at Lowe's. Now that we
basically live on the outskirts of Houston, TX that's where we get our
manure. Works well.

I got in late last night. I put my headset on and cut
a four foot wide swath through the weeds. When I am done
picking them and they dry out a bit, I am planning on
digging them into holes that I will eventually
plant zukes in.
The smaller you cut the weeds the faster they rot. I usually run over
them with the mower two or three times and it gets smaller each time

Here is an interesting observation. I think the weeds
were always there in my lawn. When the grass dies,
the weeds stayed.
Weeds are much hardier than grass. We are pestered with dandelions and
nut grass, takes patience and finger strength to get the !@#$% things
out of the ground. Wife enjoys it so I let her take the lead on weed
pulling. She lived further out in the country than I did before we
married. G

Thank you!

No pickup truck and no lawn mover.

Just out of curiosity, how deep do you have to go to
keep the little buzzards seeds/root from coming back up?
Nut grass actually has a nut at the bottom, that has to come out or
another weed grows. Dandelions is a shot at getting it all, we usually
stick a finger into the ground and feel for roots then push it out.
Every weed has some sort of problem with wanting to live and procreate.
Get rough with them.

I am planning on planting two more Ponderosa Pines to kep
my other one company. Their needles will eventually acidify
the soil and provide some ground cover.


I grew up in the piney woods of SE Texas, takes many moons to actually
acidify soil that way. It is a cheap way though if you're patient.

Not raining at the moment, more tomorrow is what the weather folk are
saying. Lots of folks in Houston proper and the other cities and towns
on the drainage plain are under several feet of water for the second
year. So far we're just getting lots of water on the gardens and they
are doing well. Sun came out this afternoon and everything growing
perked up. I took a lot of "rain" limbs off the pear tree. Blasted thing
grow faster the more water they get.

George

In article ,
George Shirley wrote:

I grew up in the piney woods of SE Texas, takes many moons to actually
acidify soil that way. It is a cheap way though if you're patient.

If you are less patient, see if you can find baled "pine straw." I have
some reservations about the fact that folks seem to be happy to strip
their forests of organic material to sell it, but given that they do, it
would help your (T's) yard a little faster than not. And of course, try
to get as many leaves as possible in leaf season, when folks are
throwing them away...spoiled hay is likewise highly useful (unspoiled
hay is also useful, but much more expensive.) Even shredded paper helps,
though it ties up nitrogen while it decomposes.

Creeping buttercup is currently my least-favorite weed; it will find the
surface from being buried 6" down and mulched over. I now aim for
partially dry and (sealed, anerobic) compost on that stuff.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile and ignore them so they will go away.

On 4/21/2016 9:03 PM, Ecnerwal wrote:
In article ,
George Shirley wrote:

I grew up in the piney woods of SE Texas, takes many moons to actually
acidify soil that way. It is a cheap way though if you're patient.

If you are less patient, see if you can find baled "pine straw." I have
some reservations about the fact that folks seem to be happy to strip
their forests of organic material to sell it, but given that they do, it
would help your (T's) yard a little faster than not. And of course, try
to get as many leaves as possible in leaf season, when folks are
throwing them away...spoiled hay is likewise highly useful (unspoiled
hay is also useful, but much more expensive.) Even shredded paper helps,
though it ties up nitrogen while it decomposes.

Creeping buttercup is currently my least-favorite weed; it will find the
surface from being buried 6" down and mulched over. I now aim for
partially dry and (sealed, anerobic) compost on that stuff.

I wish we had something other than live oaks in this subdivision. We
have a young pear and a young fig that drop leaves but that's about a
quarter bushel of useful leaves. The kumquat tree seldom sheds leaves
and the pine woods behind us have been decimated for more houses. Off
hand we have something between 3 and 5 thousand new homes going in
within a square mile or so.

I am going to drive around the nearby subdivision that has oak and other
leaf shedding trees this fall. I don't think those folks would mind if I
stole their bags of leafs from the curb. Might have to slide around
right after they have all gone to work. Being retired helps with that. G

We have a barrel composter, no compost heaps in this subdivision, it is
banned. Shredded paper of any kind takes a long time to compost that
way. I help it along with a bit of water each time I open the barrel and
have recently started soaking the scrap news and other papers. Will see
if shredded cardboard rots quickly when it has been through the
shredder. Looks like a good spot of "brown" stuff for the composter. I
put the egg shells through an old food processor and turn the shells
into very small bits, seems to compost much quicker that way and adds a
goodly amount of calcium to the mix. Also saves those items from the
recycling bin. Our trash output is very small, maybe three lbs worth on
a busy week. We can most of our own food at home so not many cans and
cartons to recycle.

I miss our huge cherry bark oak from our place in Louisiana. Seemed to
drop about a ton of leaves each year that went directly into the
gardens. Thing was a little over nine feet in diameter at three feet
about grade. I even forgave the tree for dropping a six inch diameter
limb through our roof during a hurricane. G

George

Ecnerwal wrote:
....
Creeping buttercup is currently my least-favorite weed; it will find the
surface from being buried 6" down and mulched over. I now aim for
partially dry and (sealed, anerobic) compost on that stuff.

if you're willing to use shredded paper then plain cardboard
or cardboard with some black ink on it is very good for
smothering hard to get rid of weeds. a few layers overlapped
so that water can get through will work just fine. then put
your mulch on top. by the time the cardboard gets broken
down by worms/pill bugs/fungi, etc. the weeds have usually
run out of energy. i use this method on most of the spots that
turn out to be a lot of trouble and i don't want to disturb
them by digging up the entire area. much less work than digging
and pulling weeds out too. especially considering you can
usually get cardboard for free from almost any store.

i used this method last year along a fence that was being
taken over by pennyroyal and also a low area that was collecting
weed seeds that i wanted to cover. spent about 5 minutes the
rest of the season getting a few stragglers along an edge. in
the low spot eventually the bark pieces and stuff i put in
there will be good humus to scrape up and use someplace else
and i can put down another round for the worms to work on.


songbird

On 04/20/2016 06:33 PM, George Shirley wrote:
On 4/20/2016 7:15 PM, T wrote:
On 04/19/2016 02:02 PM, George Shirley wrote:
On 4/19/2016 3:04 PM, T wrote:
On 04/17/2016 08:25 PM, songbird wrote:
T wrote:
songbird wrote:
if you
got time to go around dumping or spraying you got time
to pull it or smother it IMO.

Hi Songbird,

Some blabbing and a question on the bottom for you.

Since I let my back lawn go to seed last year in hope of replacing it
with a garden, I now have weeds I never knew existed.

weeds are free organic matter, if they will grow
where nothing else will they can then be chopped
and used for other things, like building mulch or
topsoil fertility.


On of them looks like a small shade tree and it pulls really easily.
The rest suck to the ground, like the dandelions that won't die.
I have to dig these up with a shovel, which is no easy task
considering you can make some really awesome bricks out of
my soil.

My soil isn't soil anyway. I know the guy who graded my property.
My back yard is 20 feet down from top soil. It is basically
rocks and decomposed sandstone (like decomposed granite,
only way, way uglier). If you strike the ground to hard with
a shovel, it literally sparks.

How some of these weeks managed to bore their roots down in the
stuff, I will never know. And, you can only cut their tops off.
Then they grow right back and back and back. So vinegar and
soap it is, less the salt. Cussing at them doesn't work either.

The back yard is too big to cover in cardboard or plastic,
especially with the high winds we have. (Two category one
hurricane force winds last January.) Rock gardens work
with visqueen.

rock gardens are just fine ways to cover an area.
we have plenty of those here ourselves.

also, if you do not need it for anything is there
any reason to do anything with it at all? we have
some land here on the other side of the large drainage
ditch. i'd like to put some fruit trees back there
but it's so far back there and hard to get to right
now that it's just growing small shrubs and trees
now. i'll need to cut it all back in the next few
years if i don't want it to turn into woodland/trees.


Also, this is one for you. My blue garlic comes out pink.
I was told that this is because my soil is very alkaline
(verified by the local nursery lady.) I little vinegar
may help. Your thoughts?

if you are just going to grow a few plants, i would
bring in some good topsoil add some composted cow manure
and any other organic materials i could scrounge up.

make sure the area is leveled and drainage is good
and also make sure there is a wind break to protect
against the drying winds.

that will solve the poor soil problem and your
pH will be corrected.

for the rest of the area as you can scrounge free
organic materials and chop and drop whatever weeds
that grow to get your topsoil developing environment
going. as most of the processes of forming topsoil
involve moisture it is better to have things piled
deep enough to preserve moisture than to scatter
your efforts widely. you might also be able to
scrounge free fill that is better than what you
have. even if you have to do it a few yards at a
time...

as you get an area covered and able to absorb and
store moisture then it will support worm and other
soil community creatures (you may need to innoculate
the area with soil from a healthy area). these build
topsoil and support plant life. your pH will change
as more organic matter is added.

it's just a matter of scale, what you want to put
into it, how much money you want to spend, and how
much you're willing to be patient while nature does
some work for you.


songbird


Thank you. I am wondering where to get some cow poop.
We have lots of cows about, but I haven't seen anyone
selling it.
We've had good luck in asking about getting the cow manure and shovel it
yourself into a trailer or pick-up. Worked for us for many years. There
is a compost called "Black Cow" available at Lowe's. Now that we
basically live on the outskirts of Houston, TX that's where we get our
manure. Works well.

I got in late last night. I put my headset on and cut
a four foot wide swath through the weeds. When I am done
picking them and they dry out a bit, I am planning on
digging them into holes that I will eventually
plant zukes in.
The smaller you cut the weeds the faster they rot. I usually run over
them with the mower two or three times and it gets smaller each time

Here is an interesting observation. I think the weeds
were always there in my lawn. When the grass dies,
the weeds stayed.
Weeds are much hardier than grass. We are pestered with dandelions and
nut grass, takes patience and finger strength to get the !@#$% things
out of the ground. Wife enjoys it so I let her take the lead on weed
pulling. She lived further out in the country than I did before we
married. G

Thank you!

No pickup truck and no lawn mover.

Just out of curiosity, how deep do you have to go to
keep the little buzzards seeds/root from coming back up?
Nut grass actually has a nut at the bottom, that has to come out or
another weed grows. Dandelions is a shot at getting it all, we usually
stick a finger into the ground and feel for roots then push it out.
Every weed has some sort of problem with wanting to live and procreate.
Get rough with them.

I am planning on planting two more Ponderosa Pines to kep
my other one company. Their needles will eventually acidify
the soil and provide some ground cover.


I grew up in the piney woods of SE Texas, takes many moons to actually
acidify soil that way. It is a cheap way though if you're patient.

Not raining at the moment, more tomorrow is what the weather folk are
saying. Lots of folks in Houston proper and the other cities and towns
on the drainage plain are under several feet of water for the second
year. So far we're just getting lots of water on the gardens and they
are doing well. Sun came out this afternoon and everything growing
perked up. I took a lot of "rain" limbs off the pear tree. Blasted thing
grow faster the more water they get.

George


It is raining here today. If yo listen hard, you can hear the weeds
growing. Okay, I am exaggerating a bit. Only a bit. :'(