Fran-

Thanks for your clear and practical comments. Of course, the tires are
just building materials.

Most building materials look bad or unfinished left sitting out in the
open. Cinder block, rebar, or two by fours left in plain sight, or
where someone can trip over them are Not attractive.

Tires are a useful building material. The earthship type houses
sometimes use tires as a core, covered with adobe like materials.
These structures are often very beautiful and the tires are not
showing.

The other thing is, in a garden space, a variety of plants can be
grown in front of the tires.
They can also be lined up in an organized manner in a section of a
garden, storage area or other work area where their appearance would
not be unpleasant.

It's up to the person to make their living space attractive, or at
least what they wish it to be.
SOME people are ok with rough-hewn settings. It's not my place to tell
others how to live tastefully.




"Fran" wrote in message . au...
"paghat" wrote in message
(Edgar S.) wrote:

(snip) Growing your own food makes more or less sense,
depending on the economy. (snip)
If one can meet most of their needs without using dollars, they're
better off. Of course, this presupposes they can raise the food
efficiently.

Even just a dozen tire stacks with home raised potatoes would be nice
to have and takes little effort.

You almost convinced me but then you created this image of the sort of
trashoids who have worn out tires stacked up in their yards as planters --
no doubt lined up in front of the rusting vehicles up on blocks with those
very tires removed, in front of a doublewide that's settling at an odd
angle with a roof that goes BANG! on hot days.

Boy, I don't think I've ever seen anyone drop so quickly into stereotyping
about such a simple thing.

I've grown spuds in tyres and I live in a house that friends who live in the
city think is quite posh. (Possibly the sauna impresses them but the only
thing I find it useful for is to house the mushroom growing kit).

Spuds don't care where they grow and if you have a problem with a few car
tyres then what about an upturned plastic garbage bin with the bottom cut
out of it? Same principle but does that offend you so much? Recycling can
be done with both taste and effectiveness. You of all people should know
that given your own site (which, BTW, is quite impressive [especially the
crataegus which I love]: but where are the veggies????).

Putting a stack of car tyres behind a big healthy rhubarb plant isn't going
to cause any real offence and if the plants are growing vigorously then most
people will see the lushness and productiveness and not have your "eyesore"
reaction.

On 14 Dec 2003 11:40:54 -0800,
(Tallgrass) wrote:

And a refrigerator....any suggestions, other than an aquarium?
Planter? Other?

Smoker. Read up on smoking meats. Do not keep and use the
refrigerator grills for direct contact with the meats.
--
rbc: vixen Fairly harmless

Hit reply to email.
Though I'm very slow to respond.
http://www.visi.com/~cyli

On 14 Dec 2003 11:40:54 -0800,
(Tallgrass) wrote:

And a refrigerator....any suggestions, other than an aquarium?
Planter? Other?

Smoker. Read up on smoking meats. Do not keep and use the
refrigerator grills for direct contact with the meats.
--
rbc: vixen Fairly harmless

Hit reply to email.
Though I'm very slow to respond.
http://www.visi.com/~cyli

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 19:50:33 GMT, (dstvns) wrote:

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 01:42:22 GMT, (Richard A.
Lewis) wrote:

On a 3,000-4,000cal diet, you'll need to eat approximately 12 pounds
of potatoes per day just to maintain your body weight. Add in the
artichokes, if they're of a comparable cal level as the taters, and
you got just over two days of food before you start starving.

Who the hell eats 4 thousand calories a day?

I doubt if many people trying to live a self-sufficient lifestyle would.

A thanksgiving dinner is
2000. Are you going on personal experience with calorie intake? I
would hate to have you as a dependent.

By the way, thanks for being a regular ray of sunshine, I didn't know
there was gonna be a pop quiz on this. As I said in my first post, I
DONT KNOW how many acres require self-sufficiency.

The above posts are not necessarily indicative of the typical replies seen in
misc. survivalism.

It is easier to fight for our principles than to live up to them.-Alfred Adler

(Tallgrass) wrote in message . com...
(Edgar S.) wrote in message . com...snipped

Even just a dozen tire stacks with home raised potatoes would be nice
to have and takes little effort.
snipped again

Tire stacks....what are these, adn how does one work with them?

stack them up, fill with compost. As I understand it, u harvest the
spuds by removing one tire at a time. The tire stack saves space and
conserves water. Water evaporates off the stacks more slowly than it
does off the ground.

While the tires indeed would be ugly to look at out in the open, it
would not be too difficult to plant something in front of them... or
put them behind some kind of facade.... maybe a rammed earth wall in
front with access to the tire stack from the rear.

Having MULTIPLE dumped tires in my creekbed, I would love to find a
use for them, once I pull them up the ravine!

And a refrigerator....any suggestions, other than an aquarium?
Planter? Other?

My father used his old 'fridge as a tool chest. It worked very well
and was handy. The shelves remained in place. The tool shop was very
neat.

(dstvns) wrote in message ...

Who the hell eats 4 thousand calories a day? A thanksgiving dinner is
2000. Are you going on personal experience with calorie intake? I
would hate to have you as a dependent.

By the way, thanks for being a regular ray of sunshine, I didn't know
there was gonna be a pop quiz on this. As I said in my first post, I
DONT KNOW how many acres require self-sufficiency.

Dan

It's not that hard to burn that many calories when using hand tools,
bucking bales, turning soil by hand, and especially if cutting lumber.

Most people will not eat all of that in carbohydrates, tho, but make
up a fair amount of those calories in animal fat. Bacon, butter,
gravy, lard used in cooking.

One can find caloric requirements of particular job types. It is very
interesting to read.

Linda H., M.D.

(dstvns) wrote in message ...
On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 04:26:33 GMT, (Richard
Lewis) wrote:

You have looked at the calorie levels of that garlic and those
tomatoes, right? What you grew on 400 square feet will do nothing but
slow your starvation by a slight bit.

Oh I forgot...15 pounds of potatoes on an extra 30 square feet, plus
just as many Jerusalem artichokes in the same amount of space on the
other side of the yard. Hows 30 pounds of starch in an extra 60
square feet?

Dan

Build up, not out with tire stacks. Grow potatoes, jerusalem
artichokes, and other root veggies.

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 19:50:33 GMT, (dstvns) wrote:

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 01:42:22 GMT, (Richard A.
Lewis) wrote:

On a 3,000-4,000cal diet, you'll need to eat approximately 12 pounds
of potatoes per day just to maintain your body weight. Add in the
artichokes, if they're of a comparable cal level as the taters, and
you got just over two days of food before you start starving.

Who the hell eats 4 thousand calories a day?

And of those that did, how many would try to get all of those calories
from a single food source like potatos? I just pray for their sake
that they don't try to raise a lone crop of Habanero peppers. I don't
know how many pounds of those you would have to choke down per day but
I think spontanious human combustion would be the result. :-)

A thanksgiving dinner is
2000. Are you going on personal experience with calorie intake? I
would hate to have you as a dependent.

By the way, thanks for being a regular ray of sunshine, I didn't know
there was gonna be a pop quiz on this. As I said in my first post, I
DONT KNOW how many acres require self-sufficiency.

Dan

kb9wfk

"rick etter" wrote:

Obviously not the lard butt that sits on the computer all day. There are,
however, many occupations/activities that will burn off far more than 2000
calories in a days work or a few hours a day workouts.
That you are too lazy to actually work/exercise doesn't mean that others
are.

Well-said, Rick.

Too many folks think that gardening or farming is just as easy as
using a can opener in the long run. It's far from it.

ral

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 19:50:33 GMT, (dstvns) wrote:

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 01:42:22 GMT, (Richard A.
Lewis) wrote:

On a 3,000-4,000cal diet, you'll need to eat approximately 12 pounds
of potatoes per day just to maintain your body weight. Add in the
artichokes, if they're of a comparable cal level as the taters, and
you got just over two days of food before you start starving.

Who the hell eats 4 thousand calories a day?

I doubt if many people trying to live a self-sufficient lifestyle would.

A thanksgiving dinner is
2000. Are you going on personal experience with calorie intake? I
would hate to have you as a dependent.

By the way, thanks for being a regular ray of sunshine, I didn't know
there was gonna be a pop quiz on this. As I said in my first post, I
DONT KNOW how many acres require self-sufficiency.

The above posts are not necessarily indicative of the typical replies seen in
misc. survivalism.

It is easier to fight for our principles than to live up to them.-Alfred Adler

(Tallgrass) wrote:

It's not that hard to burn that many calories when using hand tools,
bucking bales, turning soil by hand, and especially if cutting lumber.

It was once a common topic on the misc.survivalism group....how many
acres would it take to grow a year's food and all that. The bottom
line was that if you plan *nothing but a veggan diet*, you pretty much
have resigned yourself to a slow death.

Most of our folks had heard or believed that it was possible to grow
enough food on an acre, but it never stood up to scrutiny.

I have a feeling I just started the argument again on these
cross-posted groups as well. You gardening folks have fun

We on ms had gone so far as to plan out and critique pretty much every
possible diet and analized the requirements vs the benefits etc and we
came out with, at most, two possible ones (nothing but grains and
beans etc) and dozens of proven impossible ones.

One person, using a minimum 3,000 cal a day diet (necessary to produce
those taters after all....gasoline engines don't last long in a
survival situation) would have to eat between 12-15 pounds of taters
per day depending on the type to get the necessary cals.

Of course, as that one fellow pointed out above, you won't be trying
to live on potatoes alone. We added spinach, onions, apples, corn,
beans, cabbage, lettuce, carrots, peas, squash etc etc etc in equal
amounts and in pretty much every case, the required poundage simply
went up. (We tried that menu above and it came out to approx
seventeen pounds a day if I recall correctly.)

""If you add corn to that diet of taters in equal proportions, you
come
out with a diet that consists of 17 large ears of corn and 13 potatoes
to make 3000 calories a day. Want to know how much that weighs?""

It's thus not a question of how much food you have to grow, it's a
question of how much food you have to eat and *NOBODY* can live by
eating fifteen pounds of veggies a day.

Right about now, someone on the gardening groups will be typing out an
irate "but my family did it during the Depression and I grew up just
fine". Problem is that their families, just like the Irish, the
Europeans, and the Russians (all limited diets) all survived by eating
massive amounts of fat. Why do you reckon fried foods were and are so
popular in the US? Why do you think the Russian moms will stand in
line for four hours to buy a pound of lard sold as "sausage"? Linda
H. hit that nail on the head.

ral

Most people will not eat all of that in carbohydrates, tho, but make
up a fair amount of those calories in animal fat. Bacon, butter,
gravy, lard used in cooking.

One can find caloric requirements of particular job types. It is very
interesting to read.

Linda H., M.D.

(Tallgrass) wrote in message . com...
(Edgar S.) wrote in message . com...snipped

Even just a dozen tire stacks with home raised potatoes would be nice
to have and takes little effort.
snipped again

Tire stacks....what are these, adn how does one work with them?

stack them up, fill with compost. As I understand it, u harvest the
spuds by removing one tire at a time. The tire stack saves space and
conserves water. Water evaporates off the stacks more slowly than it
does off the ground.

While the tires indeed would be ugly to look at out in the open, it
would not be too difficult to plant something in front of them... or
put them behind some kind of facade.... maybe a rammed earth wall in
front with access to the tire stack from the rear.

Having MULTIPLE dumped tires in my creekbed, I would love to find a
use for them, once I pull them up the ravine!

And a refrigerator....any suggestions, other than an aquarium?
Planter? Other?

My father used his old 'fridge as a tool chest. It worked very well
and was handy. The shelves remained in place. The tool shop was very
neat.

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 02:10:31 GMT, KB9WFK said:

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 19:50:33 GMT, (dstvns) wrote:

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 01:42:22 GMT, (Richard A.
Lewis) wrote:

On a 3,000-4,000cal diet, you'll need to eat approximately 12 pounds
of potatoes per day just to maintain your body weight. Add in the
artichokes, if they're of a comparable cal level as the taters, and
you got just over two days of food before you start starving.

Who the hell eats 4 thousand calories a day?

And of those that did, how many would try to get all of those calories
from a single food source like potatos? I just pray for their sake
that they don't try to raise a lone crop of Habanero peppers. I don't
know how many pounds of those you would have to choke down per day but
I think spontanious human combustion would be the result. :-)


There is a way to get your cals from taters and other veggies, simply
fry them in lard, or fat, even veggie oil.

Another way is to eat some taters with a hamburger.

By frying the veggies in fat, you change everything.

"North" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 02:10:31 GMT, KB9WFK said:

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 19:50:33 GMT, (dstvns) wrote:

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 01:42:22 GMT, (Richard A.
Lewis) wrote:

On a 3,000-4,000cal diet, you'll need to eat approximately 12 pounds
of potatoes per day just to maintain your body weight. Add in the
artichokes, if they're of a comparable cal level as the taters, and
you got just over two days of food before you start starving.

Who the hell eats 4 thousand calories a day?

And of those that did, how many would try to get all of those calories
from a single food source like potatos? I just pray for their sake
that they don't try to raise a lone crop of Habanero peppers. I don't
know how many pounds of those you would have to choke down per day but
I think spontanious human combustion would be the result. :-)


There is a way to get your cals from taters and other veggies, simply
fry them in lard, or fat, even veggie oil.

Another way is to eat some taters with a hamburger.

By frying the veggies in fat, you change everything.


The problem is where do you get the fats? the nuts that think you can live
off a small garden are just dreaming. you can't do it without a lot of back
breaking work, and even then the diet is poor and you run the risk of health
problems from poor diet.

better to figure in a lot of animal protein and fat as a big chunk of your
diet. much easier than trying to eat 20 pounds of cauliflower every day.

(dstvns) wrote in message ...

Who the hell eats 4 thousand calories a day? A thanksgiving dinner is
2000. Are you going on personal experience with calorie intake? I
would hate to have you as a dependent.

By the way, thanks for being a regular ray of sunshine, I didn't know
there was gonna be a pop quiz on this. As I said in my first post, I
DONT KNOW how many acres require self-sufficiency.

Dan

It's not that hard to burn that many calories when using hand tools,
bucking bales, turning soil by hand, and especially if cutting lumber.

Most people will not eat all of that in carbohydrates, tho, but make
up a fair amount of those calories in animal fat. Bacon, butter,
gravy, lard used in cooking.

One can find caloric requirements of particular job types. It is very
interesting to read.

Linda H., M.D.