Johnny appleseed didn't know that I guess.

"Frogleg" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:42:28 +0100, "Jette Randlov"
wrote:

Have anybody tried it? I am wondering if you save seeds from apples grown
in
a normal garden, the seeds will likely be cross pollinated and the
offspring
F1 - so theoretically the offspring should give fairly healthy, large
apples. The taste cannot be guessed

Apples are propagated by grafting, not seeds.

I keep hearing people saying that the new tree is highly unlikely to
produce
good/eatable/normal apples. Is that really true?

It is true, and rather than being "highly unlikely" for a seed-grown
tree to produce edible apples, the chances are infinitessimally small.
"The Botany of Desire" by Michael Pollan was a best seller in the US a
few years ago, and has an extensive section on the habits and history
of apples.

Would it be worth trying just as a fun experiment? If the offspring is
interesting one could graft it on some existing tree.

Of course it'd be a fun experiment. Keep in mind that you're going to
have to wait 3-5 years for fruit (and you need 2 trees for
pollination).

MOM PEAGRAM wrote:

Johnny appleseed didn't know that I guess.


I once read (and that doesn't mean it is true) that Johnny appleseed
didn't expect most of his seedlings to be eaten as they were. He
knew that as settlers moving west to the new land would want apple
orchids. Some would bring scion wood from their trees back east and
would need trees to graft them onto. I don't remember now if the
author of that story offered any proof but I suppose it might be true.

Steve

We have tried it several times with several kinds of apples. The trees are
still too small to bear fruit, but I fully expect to get some nice fruit
from them. They wont taste the same as the apple they came from, but will
revert to what ever one of the parent trees were (I don't remember it will
take the attributes from the root stock or the grafted slip).

I know of a lot of peach and pear trees that were started from seed, and
they all bear very good fruit. They have never missed.

You probably already know this, but maybe some one doesn't and is
interested, but this is the method we used for starting apple seeds. We put
them in moist dirt in a plastic bag. Then we put them in the crisper in the
refrigerator. After a month, we take it out and check the seeds. If they
have not sprouted, we put them back in and leave them for another month. Do
this until they start sprouting. Then transplant them with the sprouts down
and the seed (if it is still attached) up. As it grows, place it outside
more and more so it gets strong enough to stand dup to the wind.


Dwayne


"Jette Randlov" wrote in message
...
Have anybody tried it? I am wondering if you save seeds from apples grown
in
a normal garden, the seeds will likely be cross pollinated and the
offspring
F1 - so theoretically the offspring should give fairly healthy, large
apples. The taste cannot be guessed.

I keep hearing people saying that the new tree is highly unlikely to
produce
good/eatable/normal apples. Is that really true?

Would it be worth trying just as a fun experiment? If the offspring is
interesting one could graft it on some existing tree.

Jette

In article ,
says...


MOM PEAGRAM wrote:

Johnny appleseed didn't know that I guess.


I once read (and that doesn't mean it is true) that Johnny appleseed
didn't expect most of his seedlings to be eaten as they were. He
knew that as settlers moving west to the new land would want apple
orchids. Some would bring scion wood from their trees back east and
would need trees to graft them onto. I don't remember now if the
author of that story offered any proof but I suppose it might be true.

Steve


Well... Way back then apples in the US were mostly grown for cider (and
of course without refridgeration pressed apple juice fermented). Water
being of dubious quality and all. When prohibition hit, the apple
growing industry needed a new market for their produce, and so focus
shifted to "eating apples". In those thousands upon thousands of apple
trees planted, only a few were deemed worthy for marketing as eating
apples, to be cloned and cultivated further.

Johnny Appleseed was welcomed into the homes of the frontiersmen
because he was bringing alcohol, not the wholesome delicious apples
that we know today. Life was hard and brutal - mild alcohol was safer
than water and a welcome relief from boredom in the hard winter months.
Back then, anyone that wanted apples for eating grafted known stock -
just as they do today. In those days apples came no more true to seed
than they do now.

Prohibition (and many religions) demonized alcohol, and so the myth of
Johnny Appleseed planting apple orchards for wholesome healthy eating
was born.

BP

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:55:37 -0500, "MOM PEAGRAM"
wrote:

"Frogleg" wrote

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:42:28 +0100, "Jette Randlov"
wrote:

I keep hearing people saying that the new tree is highly unlikely to
produce
good/eatable/normal apples. Is that really true?

It is true, and rather than being "highly unlikely" for a seed-grown
tree to produce edible apples, the chances are infinitessimally small.
"The Botany of Desire" by Michael Pollan was a best seller in the US a
few years ago, and has an extensive section on the habits and history
of apples.

Johnny appleseed didn't know that I guess.

The book I mentioned discusses John Chapman (Johnny Appleseed)
extensively. As others have posted, the seeds he planted didn't yield
eating apples. From the book: "Every seed in that apple, not to
mention every seed riding down the Ohio alongside John Chapman,
contains the genetic instructions for a completely new and different
apple tree, one that, if planted, would bear only the most glancing
resemblance to its parents."

"Dwayne" wrote in message ...

You probably already know this, but maybe some one doesn't and is
interested, but this is the method we used for starting apple seeds. We put
them in moist dirt in a plastic bag. Then we put them in the crisper in the
refrigerator. After a month, we take it out and check the seeds. If they
have not sprouted, we put them back in and leave them for another month. Do
this until they start sprouting. Then transplant them with the sprouts down
and the seed (if it is still attached) up. As it grows, place it outside
more and more so it gets strong enough to stand dup to the wind.


I have found an other description.

"I worked in apple breeding for thrity plus years.
soak the seed in cold water, from anywhere between 8 and 24 hours,
change the water three times. Drain and remove excess mositure by
patting with dry papper towel, place seed on slightly moist papper
towel (all excess water is removed by twisting), put the towel with
seeds on it into a ziplock bag. Place bag in the coldest spot in your
refrigerator (ideal is mid 30's F). Every two or three weeks check for
rotten seed, remove any bad looking seed. In about seventy days they
might start pushing, if you are ready to plant about then, take seed
out keep in cool room for two or three days the should be pushing a
little white. Plant seed keep them between quarter and half inch deep
keep between 55 & 75 degrees. Good Luck you could get a real winner
or a dude, or somewhere inbetween. The "

55 and 75 degrees from what axis?

What's the difference between the plastic bag and the cool room?

If the seed splits on one side, I just leave it in the bag until it grows a root?

mihai
47N, -40C in winter

"Dwayne" wrote in message ...

You probably already know this, but maybe some one doesn't and is
interested, but this is the method we used for starting apple seeds. We put
them in moist dirt in a plastic bag. Then we put them in the crisper in the
refrigerator. After a month, we take it out and check the seeds. If they
have not sprouted, we put them back in and leave them for another month. Do
this until they start sprouting. Then transplant them with the sprouts down
and the seed (if it is still attached) up. As it grows, place it outside
more and more so it gets strong enough to stand dup to the wind.


I have found an other description.

"I worked in apple breeding for thrity plus years.
soak the seed in cold water, from anywhere between 8 and 24 hours,
change the water three times. Drain and remove excess mositure by
patting with dry papper towel, place seed on slightly moist papper
towel (all excess water is removed by twisting), put the towel with
seeds on it into a ziplock bag. Place bag in the coldest spot in your
refrigerator (ideal is mid 30's F). Every two or three weeks check for
rotten seed, remove any bad looking seed. In about seventy days they
might start pushing, if you are ready to plant about then, take seed
out keep in cool room for two or three days the should be pushing a
little white. Plant seed keep them between quarter and half inch deep
keep between 55 & 75 degrees. Good Luck you could get a real winner
or a dude, or somewhere inbetween. The "

55 and 75 degrees from what axis?

What's the difference between the plastic bag and the cool room?

If the seed splits on one side, I just leave it in the bag until it grows a root?

mihai
47N, -40C in winter

"Dwayne" wrote in message ...

You probably already know this, but maybe some one doesn't and is
interested, but this is the method we used for starting apple seeds. We put
them in moist dirt in a plastic bag. Then we put them in the crisper in the
refrigerator. After a month, we take it out and check the seeds. If they
have not sprouted, we put them back in and leave them for another month. Do
this until they start sprouting. Then transplant them with the sprouts down
and the seed (if it is still attached) up. As it grows, place it outside
more and more so it gets strong enough to stand dup to the wind.


I have found an other description.

"I worked in apple breeding for thrity plus years.
soak the seed in cold water, from anywhere between 8 and 24 hours,
change the water three times. Drain and remove excess mositure by
patting with dry papper towel, place seed on slightly moist papper
towel (all excess water is removed by twisting), put the towel with
seeds on it into a ziplock bag. Place bag in the coldest spot in your
refrigerator (ideal is mid 30's F). Every two or three weeks check for
rotten seed, remove any bad looking seed. In about seventy days they
might start pushing, if you are ready to plant about then, take seed
out keep in cool room for two or three days the should be pushing a
little white. Plant seed keep them between quarter and half inch deep
keep between 55 & 75 degrees. Good Luck you could get a real winner
or a dude, or somewhere inbetween. The "

55 and 75 degrees from what axis?

What's the difference between the plastic bag and the cool room?

If the seed splits on one side, I just leave it in the bag until it grows a root?

mihai
47N, -40C in winter

Jim Elbrecht wrote in message . ..

Only one of the 4 has ever borne fruit. It has had one apple twice
in its life & they were both excellent tasting, though small. [even
for Empires]

You can help the tree by putting organic material, such as food
left-overs, alogside its trunk.

mihai
47N, -40C in winter

Jim Elbrecht wrote in message . ..

Only one of the 4 has ever borne fruit. It has had one apple twice
in its life & they were both excellent tasting, though small. [even
for Empires]

You can help the tree by putting organic material, such as food
left-overs, alogside its trunk.

mihai
47N, -40C in winter

(Mihai Cartoaje) wrote in message . com...

Nearby is a wild park where there was an orchard, and near a
pruned crabapple tree seedlings have grown wild. The apples are edible

The pruned tree is not a crabapple. Its apples are smaller than grocery apples.

47N, -40 in winter

(Mihai Cartoaje) wrote in message . com...

Nearby is a wild park where there was an orchard, and near a
pruned crabapple tree seedlings have grown wild. The apples are edible

The pruned tree is not a crabapple. Its apples are smaller than grocery apples.

47N, -40 in winter

Thank you to all of you for all the advice and for clearing out my
misunderstanding of F1. I will try later this year to save seeds from my own
trees - I have four different kinds, so the pollination will be no problem.

"Mihai Cartoaje" wrote in message
om...

[Snip]

keep between 55 & 75 degrees. Good Luck you could get a real winner
or a dude, or somewhere inbetween. The "

55 and 75 degrees from what axis?


Fahrenheit, I guess. It is something like 13-25 C.


mihai
47N, -40C in winter

Jette, Denmark
55N, -20C in winter

Thank you to all of you for all the advice and for clearing out my
misunderstanding of F1. I will try later this year to save seeds from my own
trees - I have four different kinds, so the pollination will be no problem.

"Mihai Cartoaje" wrote in message
om...

[Snip]

keep between 55 & 75 degrees. Good Luck you could get a real winner
or a dude, or somewhere inbetween. The "

55 and 75 degrees from what axis?


Fahrenheit, I guess. It is something like 13-25 C.


mihai
47N, -40C in winter

Jette, Denmark
55N, -20C in winter

il Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:49:25 +0100, "Jette Randlov" ha scritto:

Thank you to all of you for all the advice and for clearing out my
misunderstanding of F1. I will try later this year to save seeds from my own
trees - I have four different kinds, so the pollination will be no problem.

Good luck, I tried a granny smith seed once. Took me a while to
realise it was growing upside down and that was why the 'leaves'
looked a bit funny. So much for the horticultural lessons telling me
plants knew which way was up.
--
Cheers,
Loki [ Brevity is the soul of wit. W.Shakespeare ]