Have anybody tried it? I am wondering if you save seeds from apples grown in
a normal garden, the seeds will likely be cross pollinated and the offspring
F1 - so theoretically the offspring should give fairly healthy, large
apples. The taste cannot be guessed.

I keep hearing people saying that the new tree is highly unlikely to produce
good/eatable/normal apples. Is that really true?

Would it be worth trying just as a fun experiment? If the offspring is
interesting one could graft it on some existing tree.

Jette

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:42:28 +0100, "Jette Randlov"
wrote:

Have anybody tried it? I am wondering if you save seeds from apples grown in
a normal garden, the seeds will likely be cross pollinated and the offspring
F1 - so theoretically the offspring should give fairly healthy, large
apples. The taste cannot be guessed

Apples are propagated by grafting, not seeds.

I keep hearing people saying that the new tree is highly unlikely to produce
good/eatable/normal apples. Is that really true?

It is true, and rather than being "highly unlikely" for a seed-grown
tree to produce edible apples, the chances are infinitessimally small.
"The Botany of Desire" by Michael Pollan was a best seller in the US a
few years ago, and has an extensive section on the habits and history
of apples.

Would it be worth trying just as a fun experiment? If the offspring is
interesting one could graft it on some existing tree.

Of course it'd be a fun experiment. Keep in mind that you're going to
have to wait 3-5 years for fruit (and you need 2 trees for
pollination).

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:42:28 +0100, "Jette Randlov"
wrote:

Have anybody tried it? I am wondering if you save seeds from apples grown in
a normal garden, the seeds will likely be cross pollinated and the offspring
F1 - so theoretically the offspring should give fairly healthy, large
apples. The taste cannot be guessed

Apples are propagated by grafting, not seeds.

I keep hearing people saying that the new tree is highly unlikely to produce
good/eatable/normal apples. Is that really true?

It is true, and rather than being "highly unlikely" for a seed-grown
tree to produce edible apples, the chances are infinitessimally small.
"The Botany of Desire" by Michael Pollan was a best seller in the US a
few years ago, and has an extensive section on the habits and history
of apples.

Would it be worth trying just as a fun experiment? If the offspring is
interesting one could graft it on some existing tree.

Of course it'd be a fun experiment. Keep in mind that you're going to
have to wait 3-5 years for fruit (and you need 2 trees for
pollination).

"Jette Randlov" wrote:

Have anybody tried it? I am wondering if you save seeds from apples grown in
a normal garden, the seeds will likely be cross pollinated and the offspring
F1 - so theoretically the offspring should give fairly healthy, large
apples. The taste cannot be guessed.

I keep hearing people saying that the new tree is highly unlikely to produce
good/eatable/normal apples. Is that really true?

Would it be worth trying just as a fun experiment? If the offspring is
interesting one could graft it on some existing tree.

Jette

If you are planning on starting an apple tree from seed, waiting until
it produces fruit and then, if the apples are of high quality,
grafting a scion from the seed grown tree onto an existing tree I only
have one suggestion, start while you're still young ;-).

Ross.

Jette Randlov wrote:

Have anybody tried it? I am wondering if you save seeds from apples grown in
a normal garden, the seeds will likely be cross pollinated and the offspring
F1 - so theoretically the offspring should give fairly healthy, large
apples. The taste cannot be guessed.

As far as I know, you talk about F1 if they are offsprings from
pure-bred parents. But there is no kind of apple that is at the same
time a species. A kind of apple is actually a single plant (even if it's
distributed by grafting onto thousands of trees).

You can have one kind of pure-bred pea, if you cross it with plants from
the same kind you will get offsprings of the same kind. If you cross it
with a different (pure-breeding) kind of pea you will get F1-Offsprings
with traits from both parents. You can't do it the same way with apples,
because you don't have pure-bred apple-parent-trees. Maybe it would be
possible to get pure-bred apples, but this would take centuries.

Of course it would be interesting to hear about someones apple-trees
raised from seed. But I only hear from people who /want/ to try it,
never from someone who /did/ it.

Bye,
Robert

Ok I have grown apple trees from seed. Years ago (John Chapman's era) every
body did it to some extent. It is extremely rare, however to get appleas aeven
approaching modern grafted stock. On the old homestead we used seedlings
mainly as roots to graft better apples on to. A few of the antique varieties
like Gloucester Cheese, Limber Twig, Green Skins etc reproduced closer than
modern apples but most were at best horse apples (good only for feeding to
horses). We had one that produced a nice looking red winter apple that we
called the cotton apple. It looked good but tasted like a mouth full of cotton.
If one has lots of room and time it is fun to play with.

Robert Gummi wrote in message ...

Of course it would be interesting to hear about someones apple-trees
raised from seed. But I only hear from people who /want/ to try it,
never from someone who /did/ it.

Nearby there is a wild park where there was an orchard, and near a
pruned crabapple tree seedlings have grown wild. The apples are edible
if you have nothing else to munch on for the next 3 hours, and make
good pie.

mihai
47N, -40C in winter

Robert Gummi wrote in message ...

Of course it would be interesting to hear about someones apple-trees
raised from seed. But I only hear from people who /want/ to try it,
never from someone who /did/ it.

Nearby there is a wild park where there was an orchard, and near a
pruned crabapple tree seedlings have grown wild. The apples are edible
if you have nothing else to munch on for the next 3 hours, and make
good pie.

mihai
47N, -40C in winter

Robert Gummi wrote in message ...

Of course it would be interesting to hear about someones apple-trees
raised from seed. But I only hear from people who /want/ to try it,
never from someone who /did/ it.

Nearby there is a wild park where there was an orchard, and near a
pruned crabapple tree seedlings have grown wild. The apples are edible
if you have nothing else to munch on for the next 3 hours, and make
good pie.

mihai
47N, -40C in winter

"Jette Randlov" wrote:

Have anybody tried it? I am wondering if you save seeds from apples grown in
a normal garden, the seeds will likely be cross pollinated and the offspring
F1 - so theoretically the offspring should give fairly healthy, large
apples. The taste cannot be guessed.

I keep hearing people saying that the new tree is highly unlikely to produce
good/eatable/normal apples. Is that really true?

I have 4 apple trees that my father started from Empire Apple seeds
18-20 years ago. They have suffered from poor soil-- poor
location- north side of house- and my 20 yr ago thought of an
apple-espalier fence followed by 17yrs or so of no pruning.

Only one of the 4 has ever borne fruit. It has had one apple twice
in its life & they were both excellent tasting, though small. [even
for Empires]

Would it be worth trying just as a fun experiment? If the offspring is
interesting one could graft it on some existing tree.

'One of these days' I'll give some branches from the fruit bearing one
to someone who will graft them onto a tree they will care for.
Between pruning and spraying, I'm not really a fruit farmer.

Jim

"Jette Randlov" wrote:

Have anybody tried it? I am wondering if you save seeds from apples grown in
a normal garden, the seeds will likely be cross pollinated and the offspring
F1 - so theoretically the offspring should give fairly healthy, large
apples. The taste cannot be guessed.

I keep hearing people saying that the new tree is highly unlikely to produce
good/eatable/normal apples. Is that really true?

I have 4 apple trees that my father started from Empire Apple seeds
18-20 years ago. They have suffered from poor soil-- poor
location- north side of house- and my 20 yr ago thought of an
apple-espalier fence followed by 17yrs or so of no pruning.

Only one of the 4 has ever borne fruit. It has had one apple twice
in its life & they were both excellent tasting, though small. [even
for Empires]

Would it be worth trying just as a fun experiment? If the offspring is
interesting one could graft it on some existing tree.

'One of these days' I'll give some branches from the fruit bearing one
to someone who will graft them onto a tree they will care for.
Between pruning and spraying, I'm not really a fruit farmer.

Jim

Jette Randlov wrote:
Have anybody tried it? I am wondering if you save seeds from apples grown in
a normal garden, the seeds will likely be cross pollinated and the offspring
F1 - so theoretically the offspring should give fairly healthy, large
apples. The taste cannot be guessed.

People do it all the time. Think of all the hundreds of apple
varieties that are available. Every one of those varieties came from
an original seed grown tree. After each was discovered to be
worthwhile, they made more of the same by grafting. Some new
varieties are the result of a careful breeding program trying to get
a desired quality by crossing 2 known parents. Even then, they cut
down thousands of worthless trees to find the one or 2 worth keeping.
Many varieties are just chance seedlings that sprang up in the wild.
The variety Delicious comes to mind. (Now we call it Red Delicious
to keep it separate from Golden Delicious which came later and is
not related at all except by name.) Anyway, Delicious, at one point,
had over 40% of the market for apples eaten in the US and it was
just a chance seedling that someone discovered to be something special.
Apples are no more F1 than you are F1 because your 2 parents were
not the same person.



I keep hearing people saying that the new tree is highly unlikely to produce
good/eatable/normal apples. Is that really true?

To find one that is so good it will be grown commercially some day
is about as likely as winning the lottery. To find one that is good
enough to eat or maybe make some apple sauce isn't that hard. You
might easily find one you like enough to keep and enjoy just because
it is YOURS.


Would it be worth trying just as a fun experiment? If the offspring is
interesting one could graft it on some existing tree.


Sure. If you have room, grow several. As a business, it would likely
be a looser but as a hobby, it would be fun. Plant them out fairly
close together because you will be thinning out the really bad ones
eventually anyway.

Steve

Jette Randlov wrote:
Have anybody tried it? I am wondering if you save seeds from apples grown in
a normal garden, the seeds will likely be cross pollinated and the offspring
F1 - so theoretically the offspring should give fairly healthy, large
apples. The taste cannot be guessed.

People do it all the time. Think of all the hundreds of apple
varieties that are available. Every one of those varieties came from
an original seed grown tree. After each was discovered to be
worthwhile, they made more of the same by grafting. Some new
varieties are the result of a careful breeding program trying to get
a desired quality by crossing 2 known parents. Even then, they cut
down thousands of worthless trees to find the one or 2 worth keeping.
Many varieties are just chance seedlings that sprang up in the wild.
The variety Delicious comes to mind. (Now we call it Red Delicious
to keep it separate from Golden Delicious which came later and is
not related at all except by name.) Anyway, Delicious, at one point,
had over 40% of the market for apples eaten in the US and it was
just a chance seedling that someone discovered to be something special.
Apples are no more F1 than you are F1 because your 2 parents were
not the same person.



I keep hearing people saying that the new tree is highly unlikely to produce
good/eatable/normal apples. Is that really true?

To find one that is so good it will be grown commercially some day
is about as likely as winning the lottery. To find one that is good
enough to eat or maybe make some apple sauce isn't that hard. You
might easily find one you like enough to keep and enjoy just because
it is YOURS.


Would it be worth trying just as a fun experiment? If the offspring is
interesting one could graft it on some existing tree.


Sure. If you have room, grow several. As a business, it would likely
be a looser but as a hobby, it would be fun. Plant them out fairly
close together because you will be thinning out the really bad ones
eventually anyway.

Steve

"Jette Randlov" wrote:

Have anybody tried it? I am wondering if you save seeds from apples grown in
a normal garden, the seeds will likely be cross pollinated and the offspring
F1 - so theoretically the offspring should give fairly healthy, large
apples. The taste cannot be guessed.

I keep hearing people saying that the new tree is highly unlikely to produce
good/eatable/normal apples. Is that really true?

I have 4 apple trees that my father started from Empire Apple seeds
18-20 years ago. They have suffered from poor soil-- poor
location- north side of house- and my 20 yr ago thought of an
apple-espalier fence followed by 17yrs or so of no pruning.

Only one of the 4 has ever borne fruit. It has had one apple twice
in its life & they were both excellent tasting, though small. [even
for Empires]

Would it be worth trying just as a fun experiment? If the offspring is
interesting one could graft it on some existing tree.

'One of these days' I'll give some branches from the fruit bearing one
to someone who will graft them onto a tree they will care for.
Between pruning and spraying, I'm not really a fruit farmer.

Jim

Jette Randlov wrote:
Have anybody tried it? I am wondering if you save seeds from apples grown in
a normal garden, the seeds will likely be cross pollinated and the offspring
F1 - so theoretically the offspring should give fairly healthy, large
apples. The taste cannot be guessed.

People do it all the time. Think of all the hundreds of apple
varieties that are available. Every one of those varieties came from
an original seed grown tree. After each was discovered to be
worthwhile, they made more of the same by grafting. Some new
varieties are the result of a careful breeding program trying to get
a desired quality by crossing 2 known parents. Even then, they cut
down thousands of worthless trees to find the one or 2 worth keeping.
Many varieties are just chance seedlings that sprang up in the wild.
The variety Delicious comes to mind. (Now we call it Red Delicious
to keep it separate from Golden Delicious which came later and is
not related at all except by name.) Anyway, Delicious, at one point,
had over 40% of the market for apples eaten in the US and it was
just a chance seedling that someone discovered to be something special.
Apples are no more F1 than you are F1 because your 2 parents were
not the same person.



I keep hearing people saying that the new tree is highly unlikely to produce
good/eatable/normal apples. Is that really true?

To find one that is so good it will be grown commercially some day
is about as likely as winning the lottery. To find one that is good
enough to eat or maybe make some apple sauce isn't that hard. You
might easily find one you like enough to keep and enjoy just because
it is YOURS.


Would it be worth trying just as a fun experiment? If the offspring is
interesting one could graft it on some existing tree.


Sure. If you have room, grow several. As a business, it would likely
be a looser but as a hobby, it would be fun. Plant them out fairly
close together because you will be thinning out the really bad ones
eventually anyway.

Steve