Hello,

I will start by saying that I've had success with Corn, Basil,
and Cucumbers. I've got radishes growing but they never
looked like radishes... They've been growing for over 4
months now and they are pretty plants with bright red
stems, nice looking leaves. Can a radish be eaten months
after it's 30 day due date?

I've got some carrots growing but the carrots look like
they are still two months from maturing. The leaves are
growing upwards, are about 6 inches. The roots aren't
developing very much at the moment.

I've planted some cabbage but the cabbage doesn't seem
to be taking to well.

The sandy soil is slowly turning into a better (not so sandy)
soil, I'm thinking it'll take another year though before it's fully
where it should be.

So my main question involves what to grow in sand in order
to improve the quality of the sand? I've reworked the corn
stalks into the sand and that seems to have helped a bit,
and I keep adding dead leaves and such and keep watching
bugs appear.

One other question... involving basil. I know basil will die
if I let it bloom. If I let it bloom will it seed itself and create
more basil plants? And if I have sweet basil next to purple
basil next to lemon basil... what can I expect if I let them
all bloom?

--
Jim Carlock
Post replies to newsgroup.

Jim,

Look around you. Tampa Bay produces most of the winter (Ruskin) tomatoes.
Plant City is famous for strawberries. If you drive down h-iway 60 you will
see fields of Collard and Mustard greens.

I understand your frustration with the sandy Florida soils. I moved to Anna
Maria Island from Lakeland a few years ago and have been burying every bit of
organics I can get a hold of (leaves, 7-11 coffee grounds, seaweed, even barber
hair.) Keep adding leaves, especially oak leaves.

Cropwise, try peanuts (Spanish) or peas as a Nitrogen fixing green manure. Be
sure to plant Marigolds to fight off Fla's biggest plant pest, Root-knot
Nematodes. In the cool weather (winter, lol) plant Corriander and let it go to
seed and dry out to attract ladybugs.

You can forget about growing root crops around here. I have never seen any
home garden grown ones of any size. I don't know if it is the texture or the
chemistry of our sand. Stick to cruciforms and fruiting vegetables like
tomatoes, eggplant or peppers.

Good Luck,

Ed Upshaw
Anna Maria Island
"A Quaint Little Drinking Village,
With a Fishing Problem."

"Laser6328" wrote:
Look around you. Tampa Bay produces most of the
winter (Ruskin) tomatoes. Plant City is famous for
strawberries. If you drive down h-iway 60 you will
see fields of Collard and Mustard greens.

Driving down 60 I've seen fields of cows. Maybe some
trees farther on down closer to the east coast. It's been a
long time, maybe 8 years since I've done the drive to Miami.

I've had success with Mustard Leaf. The leaves grow pretty
nicely.

I understand your frustration with the sandy Florida soils.
I moved to Anna Maria Island from Lakeland a few years
ago and have been burying every bit of organics I can get
a hold of (leaves, 7-11 coffee grounds, seaweed, even barber
hair.) Keep adding leaves, especially oak leaves.

I'm seeing dead leaves are working great at turning sand into
something more than sand. And coffee seems to help as long
as it's mixed with the sand and left a few months with some
other composting marterials before actually being used... (it
kills cucumbers if applied directly to the topsoil and watered
in).

Coffee grounds seem to be no good for cucumbers. The
cucumbers seem to love a 1-2-1 ratio of fertilizer though.

I've got some pigweed growing that is supposed to draw
things up and I kind of like it as it has these sharp thorns on
it and it grows to about 5 feet high and vines like to climb it.
I haven't found very many details about using it to bring
nutrients up to the surface, most people seem to call it
spinach (or amaranthus?). It must have come in some of
the cow manure soil I bought from Home Depot, I don't
know where it came from.

Cropwise, try peanuts (Spanish) or peas as a Nitrogen
fixing green manure.

The peanuts won't survive the squirrels. The squirrels ate
up about 50 cobs of corn I grew.

Be sure to plant Marigolds to fight off Fla's biggest plant
pest, Root-knot Nematodes.

I'll keep that in mind. I'll have to do some research on the
Nematodes. I think it might be possible that those could
have taken out the cucumbers. I'm only assuming that it
was the coffee grounds that did it. Everytime I've put the
grounds in the area where the cucumbers are growing,
the cucumber leaves started turning brown and looking
rotton. There was a problem with silverleaf whitefly on
the cucumbers over the summer, where I found that
washing the leaves with dish detergent or just plain water
seemed to seemed to help... but then some of the things
I was washing off the leaves were Asian ladybugs... so
I'm not sure if I did more harm or more good. At the time
I was messing with the coffee grounds and a second set
of cucumber plants, I stopped watering the leaves and
left all the white, yellow and brown specks (eggs?) on the
bottom of the leaves. I watched quite a few lady bugs in
their larva stages develop. Those leaves on those cucumbers
gradually turned brown and dried out. One vine is almost
completely leafless, produced about 5 or 6 cucumbers
before losing all it's leaves and is currently leafless. So I
believe it was the coffee grounds that are doing in that
particular cucumber vine... it looks pretty much done in.

In the cool weather (winter, lol) plant Corriander and
let it go to seed and dry out to attract ladybugs.

The cucumbers seem to attract ladybugs very well, just
passing that along back to you. I'll keep the Corriander
in mind. The Cucumbers I've had success with are the
Poinsett 76 / MarketMore 76 varieties. I did get some
Yamato Cucumber vines going but they never fruited...
and it appeared that the coffee grounds killed those, but
perhaps they don't last all year long... maybe they only
last for about 3 or 4 months at most... because if that's
the case, I might need to rethink the coffee grounds.

You can forget about growing root crops around here.

I've got some carrots potted in a rich soil that seem to be
growing right now. They just are growing up at the moment,
rather than down. :-) I think you're right about the root
crops.

Stick to cruciforms and fruiting vegetables like tomatoes,
eggplant or peppers.

Cruciform? What exactly is that one? I looked it up at:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=cruciform

And all I see is having four parts... or cross and most of the
links tend to go to religious references, assuming the cross that
Jesus Christ and others have hung upon as used by the Italians?

I did find cucumiform though which indicates an object in the
shape of a cucumber. :-)

Ed Upshaw

Thanks, Ed.
--
Jim Carlock
Post replies to newsgroup.

I looked up cucumbers in one of my trusty Rodale "How To's" and it seems that
they like acidic soils (5.0-6.8) so I don't think that coffee grounds hurt your
plants. You do need to give them lots of Phosphate and Potasium.

How wet is your soil? Could your leaf browning be caused by fungus? That
would start with round spots and soft spots on fruit.

Someone may correct me but I believe "Curciforms" are leafy plants with
opposing leaves. The ones that we keep hearing are good for us: Spinach,
Collards, Turnips, Brussle Sprouts, etc

Ed.

"EDUPSHAW" wrote:
I looked up cucumbers in one of my trusty Rodale "How To's"
and it seems that they like acidic soils (5.0-6.8) so I don't think
that coffee grounds hurt your plants. You do need to give them
lots of Phosphate and Potasium.

How wet is your soil? Could your leaf browning be caused
by fungus? That would start with round spots and soft spots
on fruit.

The soil is sand for the most part that has been turned and
mixed with some dead dried out leaves, some dead dried
grass clippings, some dead dried oak leaves, a variety of other
leaves and stems. As sand it drains very well. The other stuff
I've mixed in seems to keep it from draining so quickly.

Someone may correct me but I believe "Curciforms" are
leafy plants with opposing leaves. The ones that we keep
hearing are good for us: Spinach, Collards, Turnips,
Brussle Sprouts, etc

Cruciform according to the definition at dictionary.com:
(Bot.) having four parts arranged in the form of a cross.

I'm thinking along the lines of maybe Spanish Needle, where
there are three leaves on a stem. I don't know. Maybe
someone else can help out.

While going through things, I found the word cucurbit...

And it is possible, based that what I thought were Asian
LadyBugs are really cucurbit beetles (spotted cucumber
beetles). The leaves started to dry out and wilt. I'm pretty
sure some of the ladybugs I saw were actual ladybugs. But
there were quite a few bugs out there. I watched some as
they developed through their larva stages. I've spent the
last hour or so looking up stuff on cucurbit, cruciform and
all and I have to give up on it and get some other things
done. Perhaps there was a combination of ladybugs and
spotted cucumber beetles.

I should have took some pictures of the bugs. :-)

--
Jim Carlock
Post replies to newsgroup.

Jim Carlock said:

While going through things, I found the word cucurbit...

And it is possible, based that what I thought were Asian
LadyBugs are really cucurbit beetles (spotted cucumber
beetles). The leaves started to dry out and wilt. I'm pretty
sure some of the ladybugs I saw were actual ladybugs. But
there were quite a few bugs out there.

I've rarely seen ladybugs on my cucurbits (cucumbers, melons, squash).
But I *always* see cucumber beetles. They can spread diseases such as
bacterial wilt and mosaic virus.

I grow my cucumbers in a screened box, to exclude the cucumber beetles,
which means I only grow the types that set fruit without pollination. Otherwise
the bacterial wilt will wipe them out.

My soil is really sandy, too. My main fertilizers are alfalfa pellets and
compost made with shredded leaves and large amounts of coffee grounds.
That works for me because my soil test revealed abundant amounts of
phosphorous but very limited amounts of potassium. Phosphorous tends
to stick around in soils, but potassium leaches. Coffee grounds and alfalfa
add nitrogen and potassium but not so much phosphorous.

Youshould consider having your soil tested to find out what your critical
nutrients might be...

--
Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast)

Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(attributed to Don Marti)

"Jim Carlock" writes:
And it is possible, based that what I thought were Asian
LadyBugs are really cucurbit beetles (spotted cucumber
beetles). The leaves started to dry out and wilt. I'm pretty

Here in Australia some ladybirds/ladybugs are attracted to the leaf
of curcubits and potatoes, and they rasp the green layer off the leaf
to leave a transparent patch. You see this small area of damage right
where each bug is located on the leaf, so they are strongly implicated!
I pick the ladybugs off the leaves and squash them. They obviously are
not the helpful ones that eat aphids.

What to plant in sand? I grew the pink sweet potatoes (yams) in
some unimproved very sandy soil, growing them from slips (rooted
lengths of runners). It was difficult to keep the water up to them
during the height of summer, but I covered the soil surface with
leaves and compost and the plants thrived and produced a heavy crop
of delicious tubers. Harvest as needed.
--
John Savage (news address invalid; keep news replies in newsgroup)

Jim Carlock said:

While going through things, I found the word cucurbit...

And it is possible, based that what I thought were Asian
LadyBugs are really cucurbit beetles (spotted cucumber
beetles). The leaves started to dry out and wilt. I'm pretty
sure some of the ladybugs I saw were actual ladybugs. But
there were quite a few bugs out there.

I've rarely seen ladybugs on my cucurbits (cucumbers, melons, squash).
But I *always* see cucumber beetles. They can spread diseases such as
bacterial wilt and mosaic virus.

I grow my cucumbers in a screened box, to exclude the cucumber beetles,
which means I only grow the types that set fruit without pollination. Otherwise
the bacterial wilt will wipe them out.

My soil is really sandy, too. My main fertilizers are alfalfa pellets and
compost made with shredded leaves and large amounts of coffee grounds.
That works for me because my soil test revealed abundant amounts of
phosphorous but very limited amounts of potassium. Phosphorous tends
to stick around in soils, but potassium leaches. Coffee grounds and alfalfa
add nitrogen and potassium but not so much phosphorous.

Youshould consider having your soil tested to find out what your critical
nutrients might be...

--
Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast)

Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(attributed to Don Marti)

Jim Carlock said:

While going through things, I found the word cucurbit...

And it is possible, based that what I thought were Asian
LadyBugs are really cucurbit beetles (spotted cucumber
beetles). The leaves started to dry out and wilt. I'm pretty
sure some of the ladybugs I saw were actual ladybugs. But
there were quite a few bugs out there.

I've rarely seen ladybugs on my cucurbits (cucumbers, melons, squash).
But I *always* see cucumber beetles. They can spread diseases such as
bacterial wilt and mosaic virus.

I grow my cucumbers in a screened box, to exclude the cucumber beetles,
which means I only grow the types that set fruit without pollination. Otherwise
the bacterial wilt will wipe them out.

My soil is really sandy, too. My main fertilizers are alfalfa pellets and
compost made with shredded leaves and large amounts of coffee grounds.
That works for me because my soil test revealed abundant amounts of
phosphorous but very limited amounts of potassium. Phosphorous tends
to stick around in soils, but potassium leaches. Coffee grounds and alfalfa
add nitrogen and potassium but not so much phosphorous.

Youshould consider having your soil tested to find out what your critical
nutrients might be...

--
Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast)

Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(attributed to Don Marti)

"Jim Carlock" writes:
And it is possible, based that what I thought were Asian
LadyBugs are really cucurbit beetles (spotted cucumber
beetles). The leaves started to dry out and wilt. I'm pretty

Here in Australia some ladybirds/ladybugs are attracted to the leaf
of curcubits and potatoes, and they rasp the green layer off the leaf
to leave a transparent patch. You see this small area of damage right
where each bug is located on the leaf, so they are strongly implicated!
I pick the ladybugs off the leaves and squash them. They obviously are
not the helpful ones that eat aphids.

What to plant in sand? I grew the pink sweet potatoes (yams) in
some unimproved very sandy soil, growing them from slips (rooted
lengths of runners). It was difficult to keep the water up to them
during the height of summer, but I covered the soil surface with
leaves and compost and the plants thrived and produced a heavy crop
of delicious tubers. Harvest as needed.
--
John Savage (news address invalid; keep news replies in newsgroup)

"EDUPSHAW" wrote:
I looked up cucumbers in one of my trusty Rodale "How To's"
and it seems that they like acidic soils (5.0-6.8) so I don't think
that coffee grounds hurt your plants. You do need to give them
lots of Phosphate and Potasium.

How wet is your soil? Could your leaf browning be caused
by fungus? That would start with round spots and soft spots
on fruit.

The soil is sand for the most part that has been turned and
mixed with some dead dried out leaves, some dead dried
grass clippings, some dead dried oak leaves, a variety of other
leaves and stems. As sand it drains very well. The other stuff
I've mixed in seems to keep it from draining so quickly.

Someone may correct me but I believe "Curciforms" are
leafy plants with opposing leaves. The ones that we keep
hearing are good for us: Spinach, Collards, Turnips,
Brussle Sprouts, etc

Cruciform according to the definition at dictionary.com:
(Bot.) having four parts arranged in the form of a cross.

I'm thinking along the lines of maybe Spanish Needle, where
there are three leaves on a stem. I don't know. Maybe
someone else can help out.

While going through things, I found the word cucurbit...

And it is possible, based that what I thought were Asian
LadyBugs are really cucurbit beetles (spotted cucumber
beetles). The leaves started to dry out and wilt. I'm pretty
sure some of the ladybugs I saw were actual ladybugs. But
there were quite a few bugs out there. I watched some as
they developed through their larva stages. I've spent the
last hour or so looking up stuff on cucurbit, cruciform and
all and I have to give up on it and get some other things
done. Perhaps there was a combination of ladybugs and
spotted cucumber beetles.

I should have took some pictures of the bugs. :-)

--
Jim Carlock
Post replies to newsgroup.

I looked up cucumbers in one of my trusty Rodale "How To's" and it seems that
they like acidic soils (5.0-6.8) so I don't think that coffee grounds hurt your
plants. You do need to give them lots of Phosphate and Potasium.

How wet is your soil? Could your leaf browning be caused by fungus? That
would start with round spots and soft spots on fruit.

Someone may correct me but I believe "Curciforms" are leafy plants with
opposing leaves. The ones that we keep hearing are good for us: Spinach,
Collards, Turnips, Brussle Sprouts, etc

Ed.

I looked up cucumbers in one of my trusty Rodale "How To's" and it seems that
they like acidic soils (5.0-6.8) so I don't think that coffee grounds hurt your
plants. You do need to give them lots of Phosphate and Potasium.

How wet is your soil? Could your leaf browning be caused by fungus? That
would start with round spots and soft spots on fruit.

Someone may correct me but I believe "Curciforms" are leafy plants with
opposing leaves. The ones that we keep hearing are good for us: Spinach,
Collards, Turnips, Brussle Sprouts, etc

Ed.

Hi Jim,
The radishes sound doomed. Have they bolted (produced flowers)? If so,
the seed pods that develop are edible.
Cabbage really does better in a heavy soil.
The split between what grows and what doesn't my not all be due to the
sand. It may be a division between what grows well in hot weather and
what does better in a cool climate. Possible?

To improve the soil, about all you can do is keep adding lots of organic
material. It will probably take more than you think.

Steve


Jim Carlock wrote:

Hello,

I will start by saying that I've had success with Corn, Basil,
and Cucumbers. I've got radishes growing but they never
looked like radishes... They've been growing for over 4
months now and they are pretty plants with bright red
stems, nice looking leaves. Can a radish be eaten months
after it's 30 day due date?

I've got some carrots growing but the carrots look like
they are still two months from maturing. The leaves are
growing upwards, are about 6 inches. The roots aren't
developing very much at the moment.

I've planted some cabbage but the cabbage doesn't seem
to be taking to well.

The sandy soil is slowly turning into a better (not so sandy)
soil, I'm thinking it'll take another year though before it's fully
where it should be.

So my main question involves what to grow in sand in order
to improve the quality of the sand? I've reworked the corn
stalks into the sand and that seems to have helped a bit,
and I keep adding dead leaves and such and keep watching
bugs appear.

One other question... involving basil. I know basil will die
if I let it bloom. If I let it bloom will it seed itself and create
more basil plants? And if I have sweet basil next to purple
basil next to lemon basil... what can I expect if I let them
all bloom?

"Steve" wrote in message ...:
Hi Jim,
The radishes sound doomed. Have they bolted (produced
flowers)? If so, the seed pods that develop are edible.

No flowers yet.

Cabbage really does better in a heavy soil.
The split between what grows and what doesn't my not all
be due to the sand. It may be a division between what
grows well in hot weather and what does better in a cool
climate. Possible?

Very possible. Alot of stuff doesn't like the heat of summer
here.

To improve the soil, about all you can do is keep adding
lots of organic material. It will probably take more than you
think.

Funny... I cleaned out the gutters last week, a couple years ago
a tree started to grow in the gutter. I think I found alot of good
stuff in the gutters. The tree that started growing in the gutter is
now growing on the side of the house, is about 14 feet tall.

--
Jim Carlock
Post replies to newsgroup.