Hello,

I will start by saying that I've had success with Corn, Basil,
and Cucumbers. I've got radishes growing but they never
looked like radishes... They've been growing for over 4
months now and they are pretty plants with bright red
stems, nice looking leaves. Can a radish be eaten months
after it's 30 day due date?

I've got some carrots growing but the carrots look like
they are still two months from maturing. The leaves are
growing upwards, are about 6 inches. The roots aren't
developing very much at the moment.

I've planted some cabbage but the cabbage doesn't seem
to be taking to well.

The sandy soil is slowly turning into a better (not so sandy)
soil, I'm thinking it'll take another year though before it's fully
where it should be.

So my main question involves what to grow in sand in order
to improve the quality of the sand? I've reworked the corn
stalks into the sand and that seems to have helped a bit,
and I keep adding dead leaves and such and keep watching
bugs appear.

One other question... involving basil. I know basil will die
if I let it bloom. If I let it bloom will it seed itself and create
more basil plants? And if I have sweet basil next to purple
basil next to lemon basil... what can I expect if I let them
all bloom?

--
Jim Carlock
Post replies to newsgroup.

Jim,

Look around you. Tampa Bay produces most of the winter (Ruskin) tomatoes.
Plant City is famous for strawberries. If you drive down h-iway 60 you will
see fields of Collard and Mustard greens.

I understand your frustration with the sandy Florida soils. I moved to Anna
Maria Island from Lakeland a few years ago and have been burying every bit of
organics I can get a hold of (leaves, 7-11 coffee grounds, seaweed, even barber
hair.) Keep adding leaves, especially oak leaves.

Cropwise, try peanuts (Spanish) or peas as a Nitrogen fixing green manure. Be
sure to plant Marigolds to fight off Fla's biggest plant pest, Root-knot
Nematodes. In the cool weather (winter, lol) plant Corriander and let it go to
seed and dry out to attract ladybugs.

You can forget about growing root crops around here. I have never seen any
home garden grown ones of any size. I don't know if it is the texture or the
chemistry of our sand. Stick to cruciforms and fruiting vegetables like
tomatoes, eggplant or peppers.

Good Luck,

Ed Upshaw
Anna Maria Island
"A Quaint Little Drinking Village,
With a Fishing Problem."

Hi Jim,
The radishes sound doomed. Have they bolted (produced flowers)? If so,
the seed pods that develop are edible.
Cabbage really does better in a heavy soil.
The split between what grows and what doesn't my not all be due to the
sand. It may be a division between what grows well in hot weather and
what does better in a cool climate. Possible?

To improve the soil, about all you can do is keep adding lots of organic
material. It will probably take more than you think.

Steve


Jim Carlock wrote:

Hello,

I will start by saying that I've had success with Corn, Basil,
and Cucumbers. I've got radishes growing but they never
looked like radishes... They've been growing for over 4
months now and they are pretty plants with bright red
stems, nice looking leaves. Can a radish be eaten months
after it's 30 day due date?

I've got some carrots growing but the carrots look like
they are still two months from maturing. The leaves are
growing upwards, are about 6 inches. The roots aren't
developing very much at the moment.

I've planted some cabbage but the cabbage doesn't seem
to be taking to well.

The sandy soil is slowly turning into a better (not so sandy)
soil, I'm thinking it'll take another year though before it's fully
where it should be.

So my main question involves what to grow in sand in order
to improve the quality of the sand? I've reworked the corn
stalks into the sand and that seems to have helped a bit,
and I keep adding dead leaves and such and keep watching
bugs appear.

One other question... involving basil. I know basil will die
if I let it bloom. If I let it bloom will it seed itself and create
more basil plants? And if I have sweet basil next to purple
basil next to lemon basil... what can I expect if I let them
all bloom?

Hi Jim,
The radishes sound doomed. Have they bolted (produced flowers)? If so,
the seed pods that develop are edible.
Cabbage really does better in a heavy soil.
The split between what grows and what doesn't my not all be due to the
sand. It may be a division between what grows well in hot weather and
what does better in a cool climate. Possible?

To improve the soil, about all you can do is keep adding lots of organic
material. It will probably take more than you think.

Steve


Jim Carlock wrote:

Hello,

I will start by saying that I've had success with Corn, Basil,
and Cucumbers. I've got radishes growing but they never
looked like radishes... They've been growing for over 4
months now and they are pretty plants with bright red
stems, nice looking leaves. Can a radish be eaten months
after it's 30 day due date?

I've got some carrots growing but the carrots look like
they are still two months from maturing. The leaves are
growing upwards, are about 6 inches. The roots aren't
developing very much at the moment.

I've planted some cabbage but the cabbage doesn't seem
to be taking to well.

The sandy soil is slowly turning into a better (not so sandy)
soil, I'm thinking it'll take another year though before it's fully
where it should be.

So my main question involves what to grow in sand in order
to improve the quality of the sand? I've reworked the corn
stalks into the sand and that seems to have helped a bit,
and I keep adding dead leaves and such and keep watching
bugs appear.

One other question... involving basil. I know basil will die
if I let it bloom. If I let it bloom will it seed itself and create
more basil plants? And if I have sweet basil next to purple
basil next to lemon basil... what can I expect if I let them
all bloom?

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 19:45:10 GMT, "Jim Carlock"
wrote:


One other question... involving basil. I know basil will die
if I let it bloom. If I let it bloom will it seed itself and create
more basil plants? And if I have sweet basil next to purple
basil next to lemon basil... what can I expect if I let them
all bloom?

Basil reseeds like crazy in my yard. I don't know how much
it cross pollinates, but I find versions of Lettuce leaf, lemon,
Italian, and cinnamon basil growing in the lawn, in clay, through
the fence, and in the flower beds. I just crush a leaf on any of
the plants and sniff to figure out which one it is if I can't
tell by the leaf. If it doesn't have a good, strong scent; it
gets pulled up.

Penelope
--
"Maybe you'd like to ask the Wizard for a heart."
"ElissaAnn"

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 19:45:10 GMT, "Jim Carlock"
wrote:


One other question... involving basil. I know basil will die
if I let it bloom. If I let it bloom will it seed itself and create
more basil plants? And if I have sweet basil next to purple
basil next to lemon basil... what can I expect if I let them
all bloom?

Basil reseeds like crazy in my yard. I don't know how much
it cross pollinates, but I find versions of Lettuce leaf, lemon,
Italian, and cinnamon basil growing in the lawn, in clay, through
the fence, and in the flower beds. I just crush a leaf on any of
the plants and sniff to figure out which one it is if I can't
tell by the leaf. If it doesn't have a good, strong scent; it
gets pulled up.

Penelope
--
"Maybe you'd like to ask the Wizard for a heart."
"ElissaAnn"

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 19:45:10 GMT, "Jim Carlock"
wrote:


One other question... involving basil. I know basil will die
if I let it bloom. If I let it bloom will it seed itself and create
more basil plants? And if I have sweet basil next to purple
basil next to lemon basil... what can I expect if I let them
all bloom?

Basil reseeds like crazy in my yard. I don't know how much
it cross pollinates, but I find versions of Lettuce leaf, lemon,
Italian, and cinnamon basil growing in the lawn, in clay, through
the fence, and in the flower beds. I just crush a leaf on any of
the plants and sniff to figure out which one it is if I can't
tell by the leaf. If it doesn't have a good, strong scent; it
gets pulled up.

Penelope
--
"Maybe you'd like to ask the Wizard for a heart."
"ElissaAnn"

"Jim Carlock" wrote in message m...
Hello,

I will start by saying that I've had success with Corn, Basil,
and Cucumbers. I've got radishes growing but they never
looked like radishes... They've been growing for over 4
months now and they are pretty plants with bright red
stems, nice looking leaves. Can a radish be eaten months
after it's 30 day due date?

I've got some carrots growing but the carrots look like
they are still two months from maturing. The leaves are
growing upwards, are about 6 inches. The roots aren't
developing very much at the moment.

I've planted some cabbage but the cabbage doesn't seem
to be taking to well.

The sandy soil is slowly turning into a better (not so sandy)
soil, I'm thinking it'll take another year though before it's fully
where it should be.

So my main question involves what to grow in sand in order
to improve the quality of the sand? I've reworked the corn
stalks into the sand and that seems to have helped a bit,
and I keep adding dead leaves and such and keep watching
bugs appear.


Things that help with sand.

1) drip irrigation, since sand gets dry so damn fast.
2) much more organic matter than you think. Conside one foot deep
topdressing
3) sunken beds. This and 2) mean that you may have to dig up and
dispose of some of the sand, and replace it with compost
4) most veggies do well in sand but, as others said, cabbage, fava,
horseradish will not.
5) more frequent fertilizing

Some of my sandy beds are not so sandy anymore, but they did take over
one foot topdressing, and the manure I use has chunks of clay mixed
in, which helps. Veggies with a large taproot that is not eaten will
help deposit organic matter at depth (example, dandelion) but this
method will get you somewhere very slowly. You will just have to dig
the sand, spread it one the lawn, and come in with tons of compost, or
restrict yourself to what grows well there. I am sure watermelons will
do wonderfully.

"Jim Carlock" wrote in message m...
Hello,

I will start by saying that I've had success with Corn, Basil,
and Cucumbers. I've got radishes growing but they never
looked like radishes... They've been growing for over 4
months now and they are pretty plants with bright red
stems, nice looking leaves. Can a radish be eaten months
after it's 30 day due date?

I've got some carrots growing but the carrots look like
they are still two months from maturing. The leaves are
growing upwards, are about 6 inches. The roots aren't
developing very much at the moment.

I've planted some cabbage but the cabbage doesn't seem
to be taking to well.

The sandy soil is slowly turning into a better (not so sandy)
soil, I'm thinking it'll take another year though before it's fully
where it should be.

So my main question involves what to grow in sand in order
to improve the quality of the sand? I've reworked the corn
stalks into the sand and that seems to have helped a bit,
and I keep adding dead leaves and such and keep watching
bugs appear.


Things that help with sand.

1) drip irrigation, since sand gets dry so damn fast.
2) much more organic matter than you think. Conside one foot deep
topdressing
3) sunken beds. This and 2) mean that you may have to dig up and
dispose of some of the sand, and replace it with compost
4) most veggies do well in sand but, as others said, cabbage, fava,
horseradish will not.
5) more frequent fertilizing

Some of my sandy beds are not so sandy anymore, but they did take over
one foot topdressing, and the manure I use has chunks of clay mixed
in, which helps. Veggies with a large taproot that is not eaten will
help deposit organic matter at depth (example, dandelion) but this
method will get you somewhere very slowly. You will just have to dig
the sand, spread it one the lawn, and come in with tons of compost, or
restrict yourself to what grows well there. I am sure watermelons will
do wonderfully.

Just some thoughts-- If I'm wrong Cereus will correct me.g I'm
convinced that my current garden is on an ancient beach site. [50
feet away is pure clay with a rubble topping, so I'm not complaining]

"Jim Carlock" wrote:

Hello,

I will start by saying that I've had success with Corn, Basil,
and Cucumbers.

That seems to indicate that you manage to keep water in there for the
plants. That's the first trick with sand. You're also growing
things that take a good dose of Nitrogen [corn & basil] and some that
depend more on Potassium. [cukes]


I've got radishes growing but they never looked like radishes...

Your root crops seem to be suffering. They need a high am mount of
phosphorous. My garden is the same--- the only way I've ever had
any decent carrots, beets or radishes was to side dress those rows
with a fertilizer high in phosphorous. [the middle number in the
fertilizer name-- I usually end up with 10-60-10 because that's what
they carry at the local nursery.]

I give the whole garden a dose in the spring, but then I just
concentrate of ph & heavy mulching. I use all my grass clipping
green on my tomatoes and peppers. Then I side-dress my root crops
every couple weeks with the 10-60-10.

Bring some soil samples to your local Co-operative Extension [or
whatever the county agriculture people are called in your state] and
have it tested.

They've been growing for over 4
months now and they are pretty plants with bright red
stems, nice looking leaves. Can a radish be eaten months
after it's 30 day due date?

Probably pretty tough-- but it won't hurt you.

I've got some carrots growing but the carrots look like
they are still two months from maturing. The leaves are
growing upwards, are about 6 inches. The roots aren't
developing very much at the moment.

I've planted some cabbage but the cabbage doesn't seem
to be taking to well.

I never grew cabbage, but I wonder if that could be Phosphorous, too--
don't they have a long taproot?


The sandy soil is slowly turning into a better (not so sandy)
soil, I'm thinking it'll take another year though before it's fully
where it should be.
-snip-

There's been a garden on my garden site for 50 years. [with a couple
4-5 year breaks] I add a couple tons of organic matter every
year. It is amazing how much the sand can swallow.

Jim

Just some thoughts-- If I'm wrong Cereus will correct me.g I'm
convinced that my current garden is on an ancient beach site. [50
feet away is pure clay with a rubble topping, so I'm not complaining]

"Jim Carlock" wrote:

Hello,

I will start by saying that I've had success with Corn, Basil,
and Cucumbers.

That seems to indicate that you manage to keep water in there for the
plants. That's the first trick with sand. You're also growing
things that take a good dose of Nitrogen [corn & basil] and some that
depend more on Potassium. [cukes]


I've got radishes growing but they never looked like radishes...

Your root crops seem to be suffering. They need a high am mount of
phosphorous. My garden is the same--- the only way I've ever had
any decent carrots, beets or radishes was to side dress those rows
with a fertilizer high in phosphorous. [the middle number in the
fertilizer name-- I usually end up with 10-60-10 because that's what
they carry at the local nursery.]

I give the whole garden a dose in the spring, but then I just
concentrate of ph & heavy mulching. I use all my grass clipping
green on my tomatoes and peppers. Then I side-dress my root crops
every couple weeks with the 10-60-10.

Bring some soil samples to your local Co-operative Extension [or
whatever the county agriculture people are called in your state] and
have it tested.

They've been growing for over 4
months now and they are pretty plants with bright red
stems, nice looking leaves. Can a radish be eaten months
after it's 30 day due date?

Probably pretty tough-- but it won't hurt you.

I've got some carrots growing but the carrots look like
they are still two months from maturing. The leaves are
growing upwards, are about 6 inches. The roots aren't
developing very much at the moment.

I've planted some cabbage but the cabbage doesn't seem
to be taking to well.

I never grew cabbage, but I wonder if that could be Phosphorous, too--
don't they have a long taproot?


The sandy soil is slowly turning into a better (not so sandy)
soil, I'm thinking it'll take another year though before it's fully
where it should be.
-snip-

There's been a garden on my garden site for 50 years. [with a couple
4-5 year breaks] I add a couple tons of organic matter every
year. It is amazing how much the sand can swallow.

Jim

"Laser6328" wrote:
Look around you. Tampa Bay produces most of the
winter (Ruskin) tomatoes. Plant City is famous for
strawberries. If you drive down h-iway 60 you will
see fields of Collard and Mustard greens.

Driving down 60 I've seen fields of cows. Maybe some
trees farther on down closer to the east coast. It's been a
long time, maybe 8 years since I've done the drive to Miami.

I've had success with Mustard Leaf. The leaves grow pretty
nicely.

I understand your frustration with the sandy Florida soils.
I moved to Anna Maria Island from Lakeland a few years
ago and have been burying every bit of organics I can get
a hold of (leaves, 7-11 coffee grounds, seaweed, even barber
hair.) Keep adding leaves, especially oak leaves.

I'm seeing dead leaves are working great at turning sand into
something more than sand. And coffee seems to help as long
as it's mixed with the sand and left a few months with some
other composting marterials before actually being used... (it
kills cucumbers if applied directly to the topsoil and watered
in).

Coffee grounds seem to be no good for cucumbers. The
cucumbers seem to love a 1-2-1 ratio of fertilizer though.

I've got some pigweed growing that is supposed to draw
things up and I kind of like it as it has these sharp thorns on
it and it grows to about 5 feet high and vines like to climb it.
I haven't found very many details about using it to bring
nutrients up to the surface, most people seem to call it
spinach (or amaranthus?). It must have come in some of
the cow manure soil I bought from Home Depot, I don't
know where it came from.

Cropwise, try peanuts (Spanish) or peas as a Nitrogen
fixing green manure.

The peanuts won't survive the squirrels. The squirrels ate
up about 50 cobs of corn I grew.

Be sure to plant Marigolds to fight off Fla's biggest plant
pest, Root-knot Nematodes.

I'll keep that in mind. I'll have to do some research on the
Nematodes. I think it might be possible that those could
have taken out the cucumbers. I'm only assuming that it
was the coffee grounds that did it. Everytime I've put the
grounds in the area where the cucumbers are growing,
the cucumber leaves started turning brown and looking
rotton. There was a problem with silverleaf whitefly on
the cucumbers over the summer, where I found that
washing the leaves with dish detergent or just plain water
seemed to seemed to help... but then some of the things
I was washing off the leaves were Asian ladybugs... so
I'm not sure if I did more harm or more good. At the time
I was messing with the coffee grounds and a second set
of cucumber plants, I stopped watering the leaves and
left all the white, yellow and brown specks (eggs?) on the
bottom of the leaves. I watched quite a few lady bugs in
their larva stages develop. Those leaves on those cucumbers
gradually turned brown and dried out. One vine is almost
completely leafless, produced about 5 or 6 cucumbers
before losing all it's leaves and is currently leafless. So I
believe it was the coffee grounds that are doing in that
particular cucumber vine... it looks pretty much done in.

In the cool weather (winter, lol) plant Corriander and
let it go to seed and dry out to attract ladybugs.

The cucumbers seem to attract ladybugs very well, just
passing that along back to you. I'll keep the Corriander
in mind. The Cucumbers I've had success with are the
Poinsett 76 / MarketMore 76 varieties. I did get some
Yamato Cucumber vines going but they never fruited...
and it appeared that the coffee grounds killed those, but
perhaps they don't last all year long... maybe they only
last for about 3 or 4 months at most... because if that's
the case, I might need to rethink the coffee grounds.

You can forget about growing root crops around here.

I've got some carrots potted in a rich soil that seem to be
growing right now. They just are growing up at the moment,
rather than down. :-) I think you're right about the root
crops.

Stick to cruciforms and fruiting vegetables like tomatoes,
eggplant or peppers.

Cruciform? What exactly is that one? I looked it up at:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=cruciform

And all I see is having four parts... or cross and most of the
links tend to go to religious references, assuming the cross that
Jesus Christ and others have hung upon as used by the Italians?

I did find cucumiform though which indicates an object in the
shape of a cucumber. :-)

Ed Upshaw

Thanks, Ed.
--
Jim Carlock
Post replies to newsgroup.

I looked up cucumbers in one of my trusty Rodale "How To's" and it seems that
they like acidic soils (5.0-6.8) so I don't think that coffee grounds hurt your
plants. You do need to give them lots of Phosphate and Potasium.

How wet is your soil? Could your leaf browning be caused by fungus? That
would start with round spots and soft spots on fruit.

Someone may correct me but I believe "Curciforms" are leafy plants with
opposing leaves. The ones that we keep hearing are good for us: Spinach,
Collards, Turnips, Brussle Sprouts, etc

Ed.

I looked up cucumbers in one of my trusty Rodale "How To's" and it seems that
they like acidic soils (5.0-6.8) so I don't think that coffee grounds hurt your
plants. You do need to give them lots of Phosphate and Potasium.

How wet is your soil? Could your leaf browning be caused by fungus? That
would start with round spots and soft spots on fruit.

Someone may correct me but I believe "Curciforms" are leafy plants with
opposing leaves. The ones that we keep hearing are good for us: Spinach,
Collards, Turnips, Brussle Sprouts, etc

Ed.

I looked up cucumbers in one of my trusty Rodale "How To's" and it seems that
they like acidic soils (5.0-6.8) so I don't think that coffee grounds hurt your
plants. You do need to give them lots of Phosphate and Potasium.

How wet is your soil? Could your leaf browning be caused by fungus? That
would start with round spots and soft spots on fruit.

Someone may correct me but I believe "Curciforms" are leafy plants with
opposing leaves. The ones that we keep hearing are good for us: Spinach,
Collards, Turnips, Brussle Sprouts, etc

Ed.