"Jim Carlock" writes:
And it is possible, based that what I thought were Asian
LadyBugs are really cucurbit beetles (spotted cucumber
beetles). The leaves started to dry out and wilt. I'm pretty

Here in Australia some ladybirds/ladybugs are attracted to the leaf
of curcubits and potatoes, and they rasp the green layer off the leaf
to leave a transparent patch. You see this small area of damage right
where each bug is located on the leaf, so they are strongly implicated!
I pick the ladybugs off the leaves and squash them. They obviously are
not the helpful ones that eat aphids.

What to plant in sand? I grew the pink sweet potatoes (yams) in
some unimproved very sandy soil, growing them from slips (rooted
lengths of runners). It was difficult to keep the water up to them
during the height of summer, but I covered the soil surface with
leaves and compost and the plants thrived and produced a heavy crop
of delicious tubers. Harvest as needed.
--
John Savage (news address invalid; keep news replies in newsgroup)

Jim,

John Savage is right about Sweet Potatoes growing easily in sand.

DON'T DO IT!!!!! DON'T DO IT!!!

I have ruined two gardens by growing sweet potatoes. They are more persistant
than nut-sedge or wire-grass. Once they are established, that's all you will
grow. Even "Round-up" does not kill them all.

Ed

On 11/16/04 8:58 AM, in article , "Norm
Rohrabaugh" wrote:

I live south of Tampa and for years tried to have a decent garden.
Composted everything I could find in the neighborhood and after 10 years,
nothing changed. A lot of near pure sand full of root knot nematodes.

After vapam was pulled from the market, the nematodes always won.

I started expirmenting with hydroponics and today after 20 years of
learning, I have an abundance of vegetables year around.
Hydroponics has it's own problems, but it eliminates most of the problems of
growing in this sandy nematode filled soil.

Norm


Composting everything in the neighborhood for ten years and still a "lot of
near pure sand...". I don't think you live south of Tampa I think you must
live on the Sahara desert.
Bill

Or on a giant sandbar...

Bill wrote:
On 11/16/04 8:58 AM, in article , "Norm
Rohrabaugh" wrote:


I live south of Tampa and for years tried to have a decent garden.
Composted everything I could find in the neighborhood and after 10 years,
nothing changed. A lot of near pure sand full of root knot nematodes.

After vapam was pulled from the market, the nematodes always won.

I started expirmenting with hydroponics and today after 20 years of
learning, I have an abundance of vegetables year around.
Hydroponics has it's own problems, but it eliminates most of the problems of
growing in this sandy nematode filled soil.

Norm



Composting everything in the neighborhood for ten years and still a "lot of
near pure sand...". I don't think you live south of Tampa I think you must
live on the Sahara desert.
Bill



The organic matter does seem to quickly leach out of the sand in
Florida. But there is hope: I found an earthworm in my garden this
weekend. Not in a pot, actually in the ground.

Bill wrote:
On 11/16/04 8:58 AM, in article , "Norm
Rohrabaugh" wrote:


I live south of Tampa and for years tried to have a decent garden.
Composted everything I could find in the neighborhood and after 10 years,
nothing changed. A lot of near pure sand full of root knot nematodes.

After vapam was pulled from the market, the nematodes always won.

I started expirmenting with hydroponics and today after 20 years of
learning, I have an abundance of vegetables year around.
Hydroponics has it's own problems, but it eliminates most of the problems of
growing in this sandy nematode filled soil.

Norm



Composting everything in the neighborhood for ten years and still a "lot of
near pure sand...". I don't think you live south of Tampa I think you must
live on the Sahara desert.
Bill



The organic matter does seem to quickly leach out of the sand in
Florida. But there is hope: I found an earthworm in my garden this
weekend. Not in a pot, actually in the ground.

Bill wrote:
...........................some of the leaves are
walnut...the worms love 'em, as far as I know.
Bill

Walnuts? What kind of walnuts? Black walnuts?

You seem like the kind of guy who would already know about walnut trees
inhibiting the growth of other plants. Grass seems to grow under a
walnut tree but many other plants are doomed if grown too near to a
walnut tree.

Speaking of worms, I remember when I was a teenager and I gathered a
bucket full of black walnuts from a tree near our property line. I
dumped them on the lawn and stepped on them to break open the outer
husks. Then I tried to clean them up with the garden hose. The water
mixing with the husks produced an inky dark solution like very black
coffee. The earth worms just about flew out of the ground! They weren't
going to stay under ground if that chemical concoction was down there.

OK, I don't have any great wisdom to share. I'm not sure how much of the
plant inhibiting substance actually comes from the leaves. (Well, I'm
not that clueless, the toxin juglone is what causes the trouble.) I
think I would be careful about composting black walnut leaves for use
where I plan to grow tomatoes or their relatives since they are quite
susceptible. I'm also not sure if earth worms would be repelled by the
leaves as they are by the walnut husks.

You didn't even specify black walnut so maybe I'm discussing this for
nothing. I guess I'm just having a burst of chattiness today.

Steve in the Adirondacks where there isn't a walnut tree anywhere near
here. (I grew up in Ohio)

"EDUPSHAW" wrote:
Or on a giant sandbar...

Maybe it was the Vapam that helps create sand?

I'm trying to keep this simple and unwordy so discard this
line and read on...

Cucumbers do grow in "amended" sand. They prefer shade
here in Florida, and if put in direct sunlight, they will grow
if watered daily. It doesn't seem to take much to make the
sand healthy for cucumbers. A good bunch of dead dried
leaves, some dead dried branches, and most importantly,
some a banana peel added monthly or less. g

I don't seem to be having a problem right at the moment with
instant sand. I know the summer sun and vacant patches of
"sand" which I'm working (mixing leaves into) will get
over the problem of sand, as well as adding some more of
the 1-2-1 fertilizer. That seemed to work pretty good with
only one application in the spring.

I'm going to turn the discussion around right now... I haven't
started researching nematodes yet and I don't know what
those are. They seemed to have been a problem for Norm
Rohrabaugh.

2 IMPORTANT QUESTIONS ABOUT NEMATODES:
What promotes a healthy nematode and what destroys a
nematode? I don't even know what a nematode is right at
the moment, I'm assuming it's a bug (beetle that attacks
roots).

Maybe what's killing the cucumbers are root rot nematodes ?
Nawh... the cucumber leaves were attacked and whatever
infected the cucumbers started at the leaves... and it then
worked its way from the leaves inward. I'm assuming the
whiteflies did them in... There was a problem with silverleaf
whiteflies... I can pretty much positively identify those are the
ones that attacked the Yamato cucumbers. And there seemed
to be whiteflies that attacked the MarketMore 76 cucumbers,
the leaves didn't get the white looking lines (of poison?) running
up gradually making the whole leaf pale.

The leaves on the Marketmore 76 cucumbers died and once
the leaves died, the vine itself started dying, starting from the
outermost part going back down to the roots. I'm thinking
that is from a lack of leaves now, rather than a poison running
back to the roots. The base stills seems to be okay, but it is
definitely NOT growing any new leaves or stems... so my
lack of a full understanding on what whiteflies do is slowing
my resolution in this matter... as well as the fact that coffee
grounds DO seem to be a problem for cucumbers... but
perhaps there's something in coffee grounds that promote
a very healthy whitefly and attracts whiteflies? I'm thinking
along the lines that coffee grounds might be beneficial for
cucumbers if there are no whiteflies around? This is all
hypthetical stabs in the dark though... but perhaps someone
out there might be help out...

I'm not sure I need to pursue the root rot nematode thing at
the moment... I'm 90% convinced that it was whiteflies.

ASIAN LADYBUGS, CUCUMBER BEETLES, and
WHITEFLIES...
But that brings me back to the Asian ladybugs, they are
benificial, right? They seemed to be attacking the whiteflies.
But they do also look like cucumber beetles. So I guess I
need to seperate the Asian ladybugs from the cucumber
beetles visually in the next attempt.

I've already started another set of cucumber vines. I'm
hoping I can get the Yamato variety to fruit this time. I'll
be spraying the undersides of the leaves daily to get rid
of all whiteflies and whatever else attacks the undersides.

DISH DETERGENT ???
I've positively identified that spraying water works very
well in this manner. I've also identified that spraying dish
detergent does not "seem" to present a problem. I tried it
over the summer on the Yamato cucumber vines (those
are the ones that never fruited). So I'll just stick with water
this time, :-), unless someone has already done some
research on the effects of dish detergent... (the bottled variety
that you use to clean dishes in sinks, NOT the stuff people
stick in a dish washer).

There's a lot of stuff here and I hope I've presented it very
clearly... and alot of it are just throwing ideas up in the
air for people to add onto. There are quite a few issues
involved so if folks reply, I'm asking that the replies at
least start with the question that was asked that is being
answered... then perhaps leave the unanswered and
relavent questions after your signature, or inline with
comments that you don't know the answer and/or a
suggestion. Thanks!

--
Jim Carlock
Post replies to newsgroup.

I'm not much on "Sand farming", but have been around farming for most
of my 70 years.

Okay, the Root Knot Nematodes--Pull up one of your dead vines- -if the
roots has tiny small knots on them--you have a nematode problem.

The leaves turning white and dying- -Could be a lack of trace minerals
necessary for making Chlorophyll - -could be PH of your soil.(sand).

My recommendation is- -give them a little shot of MiracleGrow, and
watch them grow.

Oh yes, some Cucumbers require polination(Honey bees) to produce-
-while others don't.
Have a good garden- -We are winter bound here!

On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 20:05:27 GMT, "Jim Carlock"
wrote:

"EDUPSHAW" wrote:
Or on a giant sandbar...

Maybe it was the Vapam that helps create sand?

I'm trying to keep this simple and unwordy so discard this
line and read on...

Cucumbers do grow in "amended" sand. They prefer shade
here in Florida, and if put in direct sunlight, they will grow
if watered daily. It doesn't seem to take much to make the
sand healthy for cucumbers. A good bunch of dead dried
leaves, some dead dried branches, and most importantly,
some a banana peel added monthly or less. g

I don't seem to be having a problem right at the moment with
instant sand. I know the summer sun and vacant patches of
"sand" which I'm working (mixing leaves into) will get
over the problem of sand, as well as adding some more of
the 1-2-1 fertilizer. That seemed to work pretty good with
only one application in the spring.

I'm going to turn the discussion around right now... I haven't
started researching nematodes yet and I don't know what
those are. They seemed to have been a problem for Norm
Rohrabaugh.

2 IMPORTANT QUESTIONS ABOUT NEMATODES:
What promotes a healthy nematode and what destroys a
nematode? I don't even know what a nematode is right at
the moment, I'm assuming it's a bug (beetle that attacks
roots).

Maybe what's killing the cucumbers are root rot nematodes ?
Nawh... the cucumber leaves were attacked and whatever
infected the cucumbers started at the leaves... and it then
worked its way from the leaves inward. I'm assuming the
whiteflies did them in... There was a problem with silverleaf
whiteflies... I can pretty much positively identify those are the
ones that attacked the Yamato cucumbers. And there seemed
to be whiteflies that attacked the MarketMore 76 cucumbers,
the leaves didn't get the white looking lines (of poison?) running
up gradually making the whole leaf pale.

The leaves on the Marketmore 76 cucumbers died and once
the leaves died, the vine itself started dying, starting from the
outermost part going back down to the roots. I'm thinking
that is from a lack of leaves now, rather than a poison running
back to the roots. The base stills seems to be okay, but it is
definitely NOT growing any new leaves or stems... so my
lack of a full understanding on what whiteflies do is slowing
my resolution in this matter... as well as the fact that coffee
grounds DO seem to be a problem for cucumbers... but
perhaps there's something in coffee grounds that promote
a very healthy whitefly and attracts whiteflies? I'm thinking
along the lines that coffee grounds might be beneficial for
cucumbers if there are no whiteflies around? This is all
hypthetical stabs in the dark though... but perhaps someone
out there might be help out...

I'm not sure I need to pursue the root rot nematode thing at
the moment... I'm 90% convinced that it was whiteflies.

ASIAN LADYBUGS, CUCUMBER BEETLES, and
WHITEFLIES...
But that brings me back to the Asian ladybugs, they are
benificial, right? They seemed to be attacking the whiteflies.
But they do also look like cucumber beetles. So I guess I
need to seperate the Asian ladybugs from the cucumber
beetles visually in the next attempt.

I've already started another set of cucumber vines. I'm
hoping I can get the Yamato variety to fruit this time. I'll
be spraying the undersides of the leaves daily to get rid
of all whiteflies and whatever else attacks the undersides.

DISH DETERGENT ???
I've positively identified that spraying water works very
well in this manner. I've also identified that spraying dish
detergent does not "seem" to present a problem. I tried it
over the summer on the Yamato cucumber vines (those
are the ones that never fruited). So I'll just stick with water
this time, :-), unless someone has already done some
research on the effects of dish detergent... (the bottled variety
that you use to clean dishes in sinks, NOT the stuff people
stick in a dish washer).

There's a lot of stuff here and I hope I've presented it very
clearly... and alot of it are just throwing ideas up in the
air for people to add onto. There are quite a few issues
involved so if folks reply, I'm asking that the replies at
least start with the question that was asked that is being
answered... then perhaps leave the unanswered and
relavent questions after your signature, or inline with
comments that you don't know the answer and/or a
suggestion. Thanks!

"Rogerx" wrote:
Okay, the Root Knot Nematodes--Pull up one of your dead
vines- -if the roots has tiny small knots on them--you have a
nematode problem.

Thanks Roger.

Don't see anything that's attacking from the root or base of
the cucumbers. I know there's some type of beetles in the
ground but they don't seem to be too much of a problem. I've
got some centipedes, lizards, I've seen some really neat looking
sand critters (reminded me of scorpions but they looked more
like lightly colored miniature lobster looking bugs about 3/4"
long, 1/8th" to 1/4" wide/high). I find an occasional small tree
frog buried in some of the potted plants every so often. It's
really amazing how much stuff there is to see when one opens
their eyes to it all.

The leaves turning white and dying- -Could be a lack of trace
minerals necessary for making Chlorophyll - -could be PH of
your soil.(sand).

The leaves that turned pale (silvery) were attacked by whiteflies.
I did some research on those over the summer and I found that
spraying the undersides of the leaves with water to wash off
tiny flies helped the cucumber vines. But those vines never fruited
for some reason. Maybe the direct sun caused the no fruit problem.

The white flies though, killed some squash I had growing. And I
haven't ruled out that they could have prevented the cucumber vines
from fruiting.

One thing I'm very interested in is knowing if anyone else has
thrown coffee grounds on top of the base of a cucumber vine
and what the results were. I got away with it once but on the
second attempt (a couple weeks later or maybe a month later)
the vine started dying.

Banana peels work very well for cucumber vines, lemon balm,
and roses. One rose stem shot up to ten feet when I put the
whole banana peel around the base of the stem.

As far as fertilizer goes, I've got some ExpertGardner stuff
which is 15-30-15 and is green in color, contains some trace
iron, zinc, molybdenum and maybe two or three other trace
minerals. 1 tablespoon every two to four weeks seems to help
the cucumbers. It helped the grass out front as well with only
one application, although it looks like it's time for another
dose.

Oh yes, some Cucumbers require polination(Honey bees) to
produce--while others don't.

I have some wasps and bees flying around outside. Saw one
of each earlier. Maybe two or three wasps as I wasn't really
keeping count.

--
Jim Carlock
Post replies to newsgroup.

On 11/27/04 1:21 PM, in article ,
"Jim Carlock" wrote:

"Rogerx" wrote:
Okay, the Root Knot Nematodes--Pull up one of your dead
vines- -if the roots has tiny small knots on them--you have a
nematode problem.

Thanks Roger.

Don't see anything that's attacking from the root or base of
the cucumbers. I know there's some type of beetles in the
ground but they don't seem to be too much of a problem. I've
got some centipedes, lizards, I've seen some really neat looking
sand critters (reminded me of scorpions but they looked more
like lightly colored miniature lobster looking bugs about 3/4"
long, 1/8th" to 1/4" wide/high). I find an occasional small tree
frog buried in some of the potted plants every so often. It's
really amazing how much stuff there is to see when one opens
their eyes to it all.

The leaves turning white and dying- -Could be a lack of trace
minerals necessary for making Chlorophyll - -could be PH of
your soil.(sand).

The leaves that turned pale (silvery) were attacked by whiteflies.
I did some research on those over the summer and I found that
spraying the undersides of the leaves with water to wash off
tiny flies helped the cucumber vines. But those vines never fruited
for some reason. Maybe the direct sun caused the no fruit problem.

The white flies though, killed some squash I had growing. And I
haven't ruled out that they could have prevented the cucumber vines
from fruiting.

One thing I'm very interested in is knowing if anyone else has
thrown coffee grounds on top of the base of a cucumber vine
and what the results were. I got away with it once but on the
second attempt (a couple weeks later or maybe a month later)
the vine started dying.

Banana peels work very well for cucumber vines, lemon balm,
and roses. One rose stem shot up to ten feet when I put the
whole banana peel around the base of the stem.

As far as fertilizer goes, I've got some ExpertGardner stuff
which is 15-30-15 and is green in color, contains some trace
iron, zinc, molybdenum and maybe two or three other trace
minerals. 1 tablespoon every two to four weeks seems to help
the cucumbers. It helped the grass out front as well with only
one application, although it looks like it's time for another
dose.

Oh yes, some Cucumbers require polination(Honey bees) to
produce--while others don't.

I have some wasps and bees flying around outside. Saw one
of each earlier. Maybe two or three wasps as I wasn't really
keeping count.

--
Jim Carlock
Post replies to newsgroup.


I used to use chemical fertilizers until I found out more about their
use. They call chemical fertilizers plant food and rightly so. The problem
is that it does not 'nourish' the soil. The plants will grow but the soil is
sterile until you add some more chemical fertilizer. In other words the soil
is not sustainable on it's own. To be sustainable the soil needs worms...
There are studies that indicate that the addition of chemical
fertilizers actually kills worms. The reason being it changes the chemical
makeup of the soil so fast that the worms are traumatized and ultimately
die. Plus, and more importantly, the chemical fertilizers don't feed the
worms even if it didn't kill them. Worms eat vegetation: decomposing
vegetation: the stinkier the better! You see what is 'stinky' to us is
gourmet lunch for the worms!
I feed my worms and they love me! (You haven't been loved until you have
been loved by a worm! vbg )
Bill

"Jim Carlock" writes:
What promotes a healthy nematode and what destroys a
nematode? I don't even know what a nematode is right at
the moment, I'm assuming it's a bug (beetle that attacks
roots).

I haven't tried this, but a local (Australian) TV gardening program used
a molasses solution watered into the ground as an organic treatment for
nematodes.

Nawh... the cucumber leaves were attacked and whatever
infected the cucumbers started at the leaves... and it then
worked its way from the leaves inward.

Did it affect the oldest/largest leaves first, while the young tip
leaves seemed to stay healthy? Any sort of bug would spread the fungal
spores from one plant to another. A whitefly problem can be addressed by
either a brilliant yellow board coated with something sticky (such as
petroleum jelly) or disturb the leaves and wave around your vacuum cleaner
hose to suck them up (improvise some fine-netting attachment so you don't
suck up the leaves).

I've positively identified that spraying water works very
well in this manner. I've also identified that spraying dish
detergent does not "seem" to present a problem. I tried it

The problem with wetting the leaves of cucumbers, zucchinis, etc. is
that this promotes the leaf mildew to which they all seem vulnerable,
causing the older leaves to turn whitish and then die.

Ideally, if you could arrange that the leaves are never watered nor
splashed with soil the plant should stay healthy right through until it
ceases bearing. An organic remedy for this mildew problem is to spray
the leaves with a mix of 1 part whole milk to 9 parts water. (I'd do
this well before mid-afternoon, to make sure the leaves are dry before
nightfall.) Repeat every week.
--
John Savage (news address invalid; keep news replies in newsgroup)

"Jim Carlock" writes:
What promotes a healthy nematode and what destroys a
nematode? I don't even know what a nematode is right at
the moment, I'm assuming it's a bug (beetle that attacks
roots).

I haven't tried this, but a local (Australian) TV gardening program used
a molasses solution watered into the ground as an organic treatment for
nematodes.

Nawh... the cucumber leaves were attacked and whatever
infected the cucumbers started at the leaves... and it then
worked its way from the leaves inward.

Did it affect the oldest/largest leaves first, while the young tip
leaves seemed to stay healthy? Any sort of bug would spread the fungal
spores from one plant to another. A whitefly problem can be addressed by
either a brilliant yellow board coated with something sticky (such as
petroleum jelly) or disturb the leaves and wave around your vacuum cleaner
hose to suck them up (improvise some fine-netting attachment so you don't
suck up the leaves).

I've positively identified that spraying water works very
well in this manner. I've also identified that spraying dish
detergent does not "seem" to present a problem. I tried it

The problem with wetting the leaves of cucumbers, zucchinis, etc. is
that this promotes the leaf mildew to which they all seem vulnerable,
causing the older leaves to turn whitish and then die.

Ideally, if you could arrange that the leaves are never watered nor
splashed with soil the plant should stay healthy right through until it
ceases bearing. An organic remedy for this mildew problem is to spray
the leaves with a mix of 1 part whole milk to 9 parts water. (I'd do
this well before mid-afternoon, to make sure the leaves are dry before
nightfall.) Repeat every week.
--
John Savage (news address invalid; keep news replies in newsgroup)

"John Savage" wrote:
I haven't tried this, but a local (Australian) TV gardening
program used a molasses solution watered into the ground
as an organic treatment for nematodes.

Thanks.

Did it affect the oldest/largest leaves first, while the young
tip leaves seemed to stay healthy?

All those cucumbers are dead now. g I have another one
growing in a different area at the moment. One I planted a
month ago is dying.

As far as the leaves go, over the summer I was pretty sure
of the silverleaf whiteflies attacking squash and cucumbers.
Those whiteflies hung out on the bottom of the leaves, and
tapping the leaves, you'd see little spots jumping. They
were quite small. That was over the summer (June/July/Aug)
and those particular cucumbers and squash never fruited.
The squash died pretty quickly, the cucumbers were yamato
variety and hung around until September/October before I
finally just let them go and gave up on them.

There were quite a few caterpillars evolving on those
cucumber leaves as well. I picked off alot of those green
caterpillars. And I was messing with ways to get rid of the
whiteflies.

The silverleaf whiteflies cause damage by secreting some
bad stuff into the leaves which makes veins in the leaf turn
silvery, then the whole leaf eventually pales and gets a silver
glowish look to it, but the plant continues to live and grow.
I'm only guessing that it makes the whole plant weaker.

The latest cucumbers that did fruit... I eventually let all the
bugs develop on those leaves, as I thought they were all
Asian lady bugs, and it was later that I learned that cuke
beetles can appear to be ladybug looking.

I can't really comment at the moment because I didn't
discriminate between which leaves were attacked and
which weren't. I'm thinking that the oldest leaves though
do seem to get attacked first before the younger leaves.

The new yamato cucumbers I have growing have some
really big leaves growing, and I am seeing holes in the big
leaves but there are no flies or visible bugs at the moment
that I am seeing. Yes the older leaves are getting holes,
and there are some beautiful new leaves growing every
day.

I did try a yellow plastic coffee can lid and I put some
vegetable oil in it over the summer. The cuke vines grew
4 feet up a fence and then started growing horizontally
along the top of the fence.

I've already started watering the leaves on the newest
cuke. Just the underside for the most part, even though
I don't see any bugs. And I appreciate and understand
your comment and concerns about not spraying the plants
with water. It's kind of chilly (50 degree Fahrenheit) at
night and 70ish during the day here now. eg The
people in New York will laugh.

An organic remedy for this mildew problem is to spray the
leaves with a mix of 1 part whole milk to 9 parts water. (I'd
do this well before mid-afternoon, to make sure the leaves
are dry before nightfall.) Repeat every week.

I'll give that a try. Thanks!

Just one more question about cucumbers. I noticed you
mentioned that cucumbers will stop fruiting. So how long
are cucumbers expected to live? I keep hoping they can
live more than 2 or 3 months but perhaps I'm dreaming.

--
Jim Carlock
Post replies to newsgroup.

"John Savage" wrote:
I haven't tried this, but a local (Australian) TV gardening
program used a molasses solution watered into the ground
as an organic treatment for nematodes.

Thanks.

Did it affect the oldest/largest leaves first, while the young
tip leaves seemed to stay healthy?

All those cucumbers are dead now. g I have another one
growing in a different area at the moment. One I planted a
month ago is dying.

As far as the leaves go, over the summer I was pretty sure
of the silverleaf whiteflies attacking squash and cucumbers.
Those whiteflies hung out on the bottom of the leaves, and
tapping the leaves, you'd see little spots jumping. They
were quite small. That was over the summer (June/July/Aug)
and those particular cucumbers and squash never fruited.
The squash died pretty quickly, the cucumbers were yamato
variety and hung around until September/October before I
finally just let them go and gave up on them.

There were quite a few caterpillars evolving on those
cucumber leaves as well. I picked off alot of those green
caterpillars. And I was messing with ways to get rid of the
whiteflies.

The silverleaf whiteflies cause damage by secreting some
bad stuff into the leaves which makes veins in the leaf turn
silvery, then the whole leaf eventually pales and gets a silver
glowish look to it, but the plant continues to live and grow.
I'm only guessing that it makes the whole plant weaker.

The latest cucumbers that did fruit... I eventually let all the
bugs develop on those leaves, as I thought they were all
Asian lady bugs, and it was later that I learned that cuke
beetles can appear to be ladybug looking.

I can't really comment at the moment because I didn't
discriminate between which leaves were attacked and
which weren't. I'm thinking that the oldest leaves though
do seem to get attacked first before the younger leaves.

The new yamato cucumbers I have growing have some
really big leaves growing, and I am seeing holes in the big
leaves but there are no flies or visible bugs at the moment
that I am seeing. Yes the older leaves are getting holes,
and there are some beautiful new leaves growing every
day.

I did try a yellow plastic coffee can lid and I put some
vegetable oil in it over the summer. The cuke vines grew
4 feet up a fence and then started growing horizontally
along the top of the fence.

I've already started watering the leaves on the newest
cuke. Just the underside for the most part, even though
I don't see any bugs. And I appreciate and understand
your comment and concerns about not spraying the plants
with water. It's kind of chilly (50 degree Fahrenheit) at
night and 70ish during the day here now. eg The
people in New York will laugh.

An organic remedy for this mildew problem is to spray the
leaves with a mix of 1 part whole milk to 9 parts water. (I'd
do this well before mid-afternoon, to make sure the leaves
are dry before nightfall.) Repeat every week.

I'll give that a try. Thanks!

Just one more question about cucumbers. I noticed you
mentioned that cucumbers will stop fruiting. So how long
are cucumbers expected to live? I keep hoping they can
live more than 2 or 3 months but perhaps I'm dreaming.

--
Jim Carlock
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