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#1
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#@%$ Algae - I'm going to turn my tank into a bird cage.
I just don't know what to do anymore. I am sick of pulling 3 cups of thread/beard algae a week from my tank. Does anyone have a clue as to what I can do to solve this problem? 75 gallon planted tank. pH - 6.8 kH - 4.5 gH - 5 Temp - 77 DIY CO2 Injection through a motorized homemade diffuser. 4 x Philips T32 850T8 bulbs for 10 hours a day in homemade hood with reflector. (12,000 lumens) (Was 12 hours, but I cut back to try to reduce algae growth.) Variety of plants, including hairgrass, various crypts, a piece of hornwort, clumps of bacapa & loosetrife, several different swords, All plant growth is good, although the anubias was slightly yellowing so I ammended one time with a small amount of SeaChem Fe. When the tank was first set up, everything was fine, but for the past 6 months, I just can't keep the algae under control. I've added SAE's, mollies, platies, and otto's but they can't keep up with the massive growth. Sometimes, it's so bad it clogs the intake on the CO2 diffusion pump. Total fish load is light - 5 cardinal tetras, 5 head & tail lights, 2 adult platies, 3 juvenile platies, 1 adult molly, one juvenile molly, 3 ottocinclus, 2 SAEs, 1 corydoras julii and one black loach. (Yea, I know - they want some company...) Added fertilizers (SeaChem Flourish), stopped adding ferts, etc. I've done repeated weekly 50% water changes. The only additions I have made to the past few water changes has been epsom salts, baking soda, and calcium carbonate to harden the water. Nothing I do even slows the proliferation. When I lived in Florida, I kept reefs tanks. When I began using R.O. water, my problems with algae disappeared. Could it be nasty tap water causing this? I started this planted tank because I thought it would be simpler than a reef tank. HA! That has NOT been my experience... Any Ideas? Greg |
#2
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#@%$ Algae - I'm going to turn my tank into a bird cage.
You might look at what's in your water. Have you tested your water from the
tap? Also I had a fair amount of algae in my 75 with DIY CO2 but once I made the switch to pressurized so I could raise and maintain consistent CO2 levels, and got my ferts balanced out the algae has almost totally disappeared. Now all I get is a little dusting on the front glass that I scrape off weekly before my water changes. HTH Ron "Greg G." wrote in message ... I just don't know what to do anymore. I am sick of pulling 3 cups of thread/beard algae a week from my tank. Does anyone have a clue as to what I can do to solve this problem? 75 gallon planted tank. pH - 6.8 kH - 4.5 gH - 5 Temp - 77 DIY CO2 Injection through a motorized homemade diffuser. 4 x Philips T32 850T8 bulbs for 10 hours a day in homemade hood with reflector. (12,000 lumens) (Was 12 hours, but I cut back to try to reduce algae growth.) Variety of plants, including hairgrass, various crypts, a piece of hornwort, clumps of bacapa & loosetrife, several different swords, All plant growth is good, although the anubias was slightly yellowing so I ammended one time with a small amount of SeaChem Fe. When the tank was first set up, everything was fine, but for the past 6 months, I just can't keep the algae under control. I've added SAE's, mollies, platies, and otto's but they can't keep up with the massive growth. Sometimes, it's so bad it clogs the intake on the CO2 diffusion pump. Total fish load is light - 5 cardinal tetras, 5 head & tail lights, 2 adult platies, 3 juvenile platies, 1 adult molly, one juvenile molly, 3 ottocinclus, 2 SAEs, 1 corydoras julii and one black loach. (Yea, I know - they want some company...) Added fertilizers (SeaChem Flourish), stopped adding ferts, etc. I've done repeated weekly 50% water changes. The only additions I have made to the past few water changes has been epsom salts, baking soda, and calcium carbonate to harden the water. Nothing I do even slows the proliferation. When I lived in Florida, I kept reefs tanks. When I began using R.O. water, my problems with algae disappeared. Could it be nasty tap water causing this? I started this planted tank because I thought it would be simpler than a reef tank. HA! That has NOT been my experience... Any Ideas? Greg |
#3
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#@%$ Algae - I'm going to turn my tank into a bird cage.
Could it be that your nitrogen levels are low due to the low fish load?
--donovan |
#4
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#@%$ Algae - I'm going to turn my tank into a bird cage.
On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 02:04:34 -0600, "Ron Nelson"
wrote: You might look at what's in your water. Have you tested your water from the tap? Also I had a fair amount of algae in my 75 with DIY CO2 but once I made the switch to pressurized so I could raise and maintain consistent CO2 levels, and got my ferts balanced out the algae has almost totally disappeared. Now all I get is a little dusting on the front glass that I scrape off weekly before my water changes. HTH Ron I have tested the tap water as far as general parameters are concerned, pH, hardness, nitrites, etc. It is impossible for me to test things like phosphate levels, organic debris, ecoli, etc. I don't have a testing lab, just the various and sundry aquarium test kits. I live in a large metro area which makes me question the water supply. The rivers have gone from pristine clean to smelly and polluted in the past 10 years because of overzealous development and explosive population growth. I guess I should try an R.O unit, but I am not fond of the thought of more paraphernalia and drums of water sitting around the house... I considered adding a little Nitrogen (potassium nitrate), but can't find it locally. I guess another trip downtown for a bottle of SeaChem Nitrogen would be worth a shot... the algae couldn't get much worse than it is... Due to the moderate lighting, I have not considered adding any macro nutrients until now. As for the DIY CO2, it performs well, it is consistent and maintains the CO2 level at or above target amounts. I don't feel that this is the problem - as long as the bottles get changed out on time. I have noticed that the plant pearling is reduced from what it was - which leads me to believe that there is a macro-suppliment deficiency. But which one? I'm not about to buy a Hatch Lab for testing. Is there a simple routine for determining these things? Thanks, Greg |
#5
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#@%$ Algae - I'm going to turn my tank into a bird cage.
"Greg G." wrote in message
... I agree with Ron, CO2 is very critical. DIY CO2 folks often report the lion's share of the algae problems. I just don't know what to do anymore. I am sick of pulling 3 cups of thread/beard algae a week from my tank. Does anyone have a clue as to what I can do to solve this problem? Sure, grow the plants well. Tap water is fine assuming this GH/KH are the same. Added fertilizers (SeaChem Flourish), stopped adding ferts, etc. Do you think reduced nutrients and poor CO2 will help your plants to grow not? I've done repeated weekly 50% water changes. This is good. More on this later. The only additions I have made to the past few water changes has been epsom salts, baking soda, and calcium carbonate to harden the water. Nothing I do even slows the proliferation. Well small algae have less requirements for nutrtients than plants, most algae can use the bicarbonate, the KH(HCO3) in your water for a crabon source. The levels of HCO3 needed for good growth are very small as well. You are noit going to beat algae by limitation and also keep plants. It does not work. When I lived in Florida, I kept reefs tanks. When I began using R.O. water, my problems with algae disappeared. Could it be nasty tap water causing this? No. I started this planted tank because I thought it would be simpler than a reef tank. HA! That has NOT been my experience... It's different. I think SW tends to easier but it cost more. Reef's are critter based, this plant based. Any Ideas? Keep doing the 50% weekly water changes. Trim/prune off all the algae. Add enough CO2!!!! Get a gas tank for this sized tank. Lock your KH in around 4 and add enough CO2 gas to KEEP your CO2 ALL DAY LONG at 6.6. Check in the AM and the PM. Make sure you have 20-30ppm at all times when the lights are on. Good substrate helps. You have ther herbivores. Once you do this, right after a big pruning and water change, add the following: 1/2 teaspoon K2SO4 1/2 teaspoon KNO3 1/16-1/8 teaspoon KH2PO4 15mls of Flourish Add 4 days later: 1/2 teaspoon KNO3 1/16th KH2PO4 15mls Flourish 7th day: Water change pruning etc. Once your tank gets goign well, you can add another dose similar to the 4 day dose. So the water change dose, plus 2 more doses till the next water change. This will allow you to have a good range of nutrient concentrations since you are dosing regularly but no excess since you do weekly 50% water changes. Main thing is CO2 and checking for that. You do the above routine and your plants will improve their growth. When the plants are not growing, the algae will. So grow the plants well. Regards, Tom Barr Greg |
#7
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#@%$ Algae - I'm going to turn my tank into a bird cage.
also massively snipped and mid-posted
I am having trouble locating chemicals of this nature. I found 2 pounds of lab grade KNO3 on Ebay fairly cheap and I had no problems recieving it via UPS... I've been using "NO SALT" from the grocery store as a source of potassium... And for phosphates I use Fleet enema also from the grocery store... ymmv but these are working ok in my 75. Well... actually, I was hoping to eventually avoid such massive water changes. ;-) Is this possible once things get going? Everything I have read indicates that the large water changes are nesasary to maintain the balance and replenish some of the trace elements etc... Thanks again for the advice. Greg |
#8
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#@%$ Algae - I'm going to turn my tank into a bird cage.
On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:24:27 -0600, "Ron Nelson"
wrote: I am having trouble locating chemicals of this nature. I found 2 pounds of lab grade KNO3 on Ebay fairly cheap and I had no problems recieving it via UPS... I've been using "NO SALT" from the grocery store as a source of potassium... And for phosphates I use Fleet enema also from the grocery store... ymmv but these are working ok in my 75. Wow! Although it's been a while since I used eBay, I did a search and found just what I was looking for. I never would have thought of going to eBay for chemicals. Found 2 lbs. of Pharm. Grade KNO3 for $6.00. Sold! Thanks for the refresher... I'll check out the local Kroger for the other stuff. Well... actually, I was hoping to eventually avoid such massive water changes. ;-) Is this possible once things get going? Everything I have read indicates that the large water changes are nesasary to maintain the balance and replenish some of the trace elements etc... Ugghh... I was afraid of that... I did a nitrate test with a Hagen kit and came up with 0mg/L. I guess it should be somewhere around 10-20mg/L for optimal growth? Balanced out, of course, with the other nutrients. Got any idea what levels they should be at? Not that I can measure them accurately... Thanks again, Greg |
#9
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#@%$ Algae - I'm going to turn my tank into a bird cage.
On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:41:24 -0400, Greg
wrote: Everything I have read indicates that the large water changes are nesasary to maintain the balance and replenish some of the trace elements etc... Ugghh... I was afraid of that... Large water changes are kind of a safety net. If you are adding too much of something, or if you are missing some trace element, a large water change helps keep things balanced. But large water changes are not an automatic necessity over the long term. I did a nitrate test with a Hagen kit and came up with 0mg/L. I guess it should be somewhere around 10-20mg/L for optimal growth? Be VERY!!! careful trusting the test kit. Maybe mix up a reference sample, or repeat the test using a reputable test kit before trusting it. For "reputable", I'd say either Seachem or Lamotte. Not sure about the Hagen nitrate kit. If the test kit isn't properly indicating the nitrate level, then it's easy to massively overdose without knowing it. To mix a reference solution, you can mix 1 teaspoon KNO3 with 500ml of water. Then take 1ml of that solution, and mix it with 500ml of water. That should result in 13.73ppm Nitrate. Chuck Gadd http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua |
#10
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#@%$ Algae - I'm going to turn my tank into a bird cage.
On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:08:52 -0600, Chuck Gadd wrote:
I did a nitrate test with a Hagen kit and came up with 0mg/L. I guess it should be somewhere around 10-20mg/L for optimal growth? Be VERY!!! careful trusting the test kit. Maybe mix up a reference sample, or repeat the test using a reputable test kit before trusting it. For "reputable", I'd say either Seachem or Lamotte. Not sure about the Hagen nitrate kit. If the test kit isn't properly indicating the nitrate level, then it's easy to massively overdose without knowing it. Well, anxious to try some of this chemistry, I found a pound of Green Light Stump Remover at the local Lowes. It claims to be KNO3. It mixed up clear, and has no funny colors, odors, etc., so I decided to try it. Now to test the test kit... As per Chuck's suggestion, I mixed 1 tsp. with 500ml of water. Then mixed 2 ml of that solution with 1 liter of water. According to the Hagen test kit, the resulting mixture has a nitrate concentration of about 3 mg/L. Tried the test again with a Tetra kit. Although the kit is a few years old, it came up with about the same reading. If I recall correctly, mg/L and ppm are interchangeable? So, either the stump remover contains filler, or the test kits are not accurate. FWIW, Greg |
#11
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#@%$ Algae - I'm going to turn my tank into a bird cage.
Xref: 127.0.0.1 rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants:73123
On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 23:37:26 -0600, Chuck Gadd wrote: Some nitrate test kits report the results of nitrate-nitrogen. For those kits, they report only the nitrogen portion of the nitrate. To get to ppm Nitrate, you need to multiply the value by 4.4, which would give you 13.2, pretty close to what you should get for the reference solution. According to the literature in the Hagen Nitrate Test Kit: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nitrate Test For nitrate as nitrogen (NO3-N), divide result by 4.4 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This implies that the kit is 'supposed' to read Nitrate directly. And with this in mind, the kit is not accurate. Also, to insure that the information I am tendering is accurate, I remixed the standard solution and re-tested with each kit. The Hagen kit contains a reagent #3 that is apparently comprised of zinc dust mixed with N-1 Naphthylethylene-diamine Di HCl. Each time the test is run, a different result is obtained. Apparently, the zinc does not stay in suspension correctly, no matter how much the reagent bottle is shaken. It masses together to the point that it makes dispensing the solution near impossible - for it clogs the tip. This kit is one month old. The Tetra kit simply says NO3- on it. I have long ago lost the enclosed pamphlet so I am uncertain which method it uses. The minus symbol implies to me that the reading is nitrate-nitrogen. And for an interesting aside, a Marine Enterprises Nitrate Test Kit shows 0 ppm on the standard solution. Hmmm... But, keep in mind that if your desired level of nitrate is 5ppm, that would be 1.13ppm Nitrate-Nitrogen. Does the test kit go down to that level? What is the lowest measurement value for the kit? The lowest resolution on the chart on the Hagen kit is 5, although using the sal****er scale could make it usable to 2.5 directly. Guesstimation could extend this somewhat, but alas, the kit appears to be completely inaccurate and inconsistant. The Tetra Kit scale is 0 - 12.5 - 25 - 50 - 100. Still unknown whether this is nitrate-nitrogen or Nitrate directly. So the kits might be accurate after all, if they are reporting nitrate-nitrogen. If I understand this correctly, they are not. I suppose that I could mix up various mixtures and use that to calibrate/create my own scales for use with the kit until it is expended... but is it worth the trouble?! I happened to have these kits on hand, they were not purchased for the purpose of testing nutrient concentrations. But the fact that they are apparently inaccurate will steer me away from them in the future. I will be on the lookout for more precise measuring kits. Thanks again, Greg P.S. - Your web site is fantastic! |
#12
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#@%$ Algae - I'm going to turn my tank into a bird cage.
"Greg G." wrote in message
... Also, to insure that the information I am tendering is accurate, I remixed the standard solution and re-tested with each kit. The Hagen kit contains a reagent #3 that is apparently comprised of zinc dust mixed with N-1 Naphthylethylene-diamine Di HCl. Each time the test is run, a different result is obtained. Apparently, the zinc does not stay in suspension correctly, no matter how much the reagent bottle is shaken. It masses together to the point that it makes dispensing the solution near impossible - for it clogs the tip. This kit is one month old. I've had the same experience with reagent 3 in the Hagen NO3 kit. It would clog up the bottle tip so the liquid barely came out. I even contacted Hagen about it, and they sent me a replacement reagent 3, but it had the same problem. Apparently, you have to shake it for a couple of minutes before this zinc mass dislodges from the bottom of the bottle. Hagen should definitely address this. I finally bought a Seachem NO2-NO3 test kit and that one works fairly well. The Tetra kit simply says NO3- on it. I have long ago lost the enclosed pamphlet so I am uncertain which method it uses. The minus symbol implies to me that the reading is nitrate-nitrogen. Considering the Tetra test kit scale, I doubt it measures NO3-N. (Few test kits do.) The minus sign simply indicates the negative charge of the anion. I suppose that I could mix up various mixtures and use that to calibrate/create my own scales for use with the kit until it is expended... but is it worth the trouble?! You could always dose without testing, as I often do. For quite some time, according to my test results, I have had to add the same amount of KNO3 each time I dose. So now I don't test much, I just add this same amount twice a week. __ Alex pcalex (at) hotpop.com |
#13
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#@%$ Algae - I'm going to turn my tank into a bird cage.
On Thu, 19 Jun 2003 19:45:33 GMT, "Alex R"
wrote: I've had the same experience with reagent 3 in the Hagen NO3 kit. It would clog up the bottle tip so the liquid barely came out. I even contacted Hagen about it, and they sent me a replacement reagent 3, but it had the same problem. Apparently, you have to shake it for a couple of minutes before this zinc mass dislodges from the bottom of the bottle. Hagen should definitely address this. I finally bought a Seachem NO2-NO3 test kit and that one works fairly well. I am of the belief that no matter how much you shake it, it doesn't break up - even after twenty minutes of vigorous pounding and shaking. I've had 5 year old cans of paint mix up better. This particular Hagen kit will be disposed of in short order. I am investigating the SeaChem kit, as several others have mentioned it. It's certainly not a requirement, as dosages can be calculated, as with Chuck Gadd's excellent web page: http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_p...osage_calc.htm Considering the Tetra test kit scale, I doubt it measures NO3-N. (Few test kits do.) The minus sign simply indicates the negative charge of the anion. Probably... You could always dose without testing, as I often do. For quite some time, according to my test results, I have had to add the same amount of KNO3 each time I dose. So now I don't test much, I just add this same amount twice a week. This is true as well, and the approach I will eventually take. I'm just one of those anal types who likes have a visual representation of what I already know... ;-) Thanks for the input, Greg |
#14
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#@%$ Algae - I'm going to turn my tank into a bird cage.
On Thu, 19 Jun 2003 00:57:30 -0400, Greg
wrote: As per Chuck's suggestion, I mixed 1 tsp. with 500ml of water. Then mixed 2 ml of that solution with 1 liter of water. According to the Hagen test kit, the resulting mixture has a nitrate concentration of about 3 mg/L. Tried the test again with a Tetra kit. Although the kit is a few years old, it came up with about the same reading. If I recall correctly, mg/L and ppm are interchangeable? So, either the stump remover contains filler, or the test kits are not accurate. I think the stump remover is close enough to call it pure KNO3. And yes, mg/l and ppm are the same. Some nitrate test kits report the results of nitrate-nitrogen. For those kits, they report only the nitrogen portion of the nitrate. To get to ppm Nitrate, you need to multiply the value by 4.4, which would give you 13.2, pretty close to what you should get for the reference solution. So the kits might be accurate after all, if they are reporting nitrate-nitrogen. But, keep in mind that if your desired level of nitrate is 5ppm, that would be 1.13ppm Nitrate-Nitrogen. Does the test kit go down to that level? What is the lowest measurement value for the kit? Chuck Gadd http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua |
#15
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#@%$ Algae - I'm going to turn my tank into a bird cage.
The Hagen kit contains a reagent #3 that is apparently comprised of
zinc dust mixed with N-1 Naphthylethylene-diamine Di HCl. Each time the test is run, a different result is obtained. Apparently, the zinc does not stay in suspension correctly, no matter how much the reagent bottle is shaken. It masses together to the point that it makes dispensing the solution near impossible - for it clogs the tip. This kit is one month old. A conversation with a Hagen rep found that regent bottle 3 if frozen seperates the zinc from solution. once seperated the test is worthless. When ever the regent is seperated for any reason the test wont work... At that time he did not have a answer for the fix. We foud that our kits were getting frozen in transport way befor we got them. Time to look for a different kithth JR, |
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