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#1
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Looking for a better needle valve for CO2
I am looking for a better needle valve. I am presently using a cheap home
depot valve that just doesn't work. You can go from no bubbles to blowing the reactor of the side of the tank in about a ¼ turn even at pressures less than 5PSI. I presently use this by closing the valve all the way and adjusting the pressure to get the desired flow rate. This doesn't work very well the flow rate fluctuates considerably, from almost dead stop to way too fast. It is a new regulator due to the old one developing a leak an emptying my bottle, but I had the same problem with the old regulator. The new regulator can be seen here http://www.beveragefactory.com/draft...-premium.shtml Look at the one titled Commercial Grade Double Gauge Regulator It may not be the best regulator out there, but it is at least as good as the one it replaced. (It was from a beer taper I bought used twenty years ago) Present setup is a 5pound bottle with a meant for beverage dispensing. The reactor is from the Hagen CO2 natural plant system seen here. All used in a 20 gallon tank. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...81&N=2004+2021 I don't have problem buying a $50 valve if it works. If I have the same problem I will be very unhappy. I am considering the Dwyer RMA-151-SSV valve/flow meter shown here. Based on its published flow rates, and the fact that it is meant for gas, unlike the home depot which is designed for water https://www.dwyer-inst.com/htdocs/FL...MPrice.CFM#CRA Other options would include the omega FL-3607G shown here http://www.omega.com/ppt/pptsc.asp?ref=FL3600_FL3800 I am open to a needle valve with out a gage. But I can't find published data that indicates they would work to meter very slow flow rates of a gas. Once I can reliably control the flow of CO2 I may run the gas into the intake of the Ehiem filter. But I don't want to end up with the same amount of noise the filter makes when it sucks air for the surface extractor. What ever I do I need a well-controlled bubble count Any advice is appreciated Thanks Scott |
#2
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"Scott Rogahn" schrieb im Newsbeitrag ... I am looking for a better needle valve. I am presently using a cheap home depot valve that just doesn't work. You can go from no bubbles to blowing the reactor of the side of the tank in about a ¼ turn even at pressures less than 5PSI. I presently use this by closing the valve all the way and adjusting the pressure to get the desired flow rate. This doesn't work very well the flow rate fluctuates considerably, from almost dead stop to way too fast. It is a new regulator due to the old one developing a leak an emptying my bottle, but I had the same problem with the old regulator. The new regulator can be seen here .... Scott, I don't know whether Dennerle (Germany) sells equipment to the area where you live. They have introduced a pretty good one which you can adjust easily because of the reduction gear. Look at the bottom of their page: http://www.dennerle.de/ENGLISCH/E_CO...EUframeset.htm I have the predecessor of this type and I am very satisfied with it. Regards Juergen |
#3
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"Jürgen Beisser" schrieb im Newsbeitrag ... "Scott Rogahn" schrieb im Newsbeitrag ... I am looking for a better needle valve. I am presently using a cheap home depot valve that just doesn't work. You can go from no bubbles to blowing the reactor of the side of the tank in about a ¼ turn even at pressures less than 5PSI. I presently use this by closing the valve all the way and adjusting the pressure to get the desired flow rate. This doesn't work very well the flow rate fluctuates considerably, from almost dead stop to way too fast. It is a new regulator due to the old one developing a leak an emptying my bottle, but I had the same problem with the old regulator. The new regulator can be seen here .... Scott, I don't know whether Dennerle (Germany) sells equipment to the area where you live. They have introduced a pretty good one which you can adjust easily because of the reduction gear. Look at the bottom of their page: http://www.dennerle.de/ENGLISCH/E_CO...EUframeset.htm I have the predecessor of this type and I am very satisfied with it. Regards Juergen Scott, just found out that you have to click on "Classic Line" from the page mentioned above to get to the page with the new regulator. Regards Juergen |
#4
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"Scott Rogahn" wrote in message
... I am looking for a better needle valve. I am presently using a cheap home depot valve that just doesn't work. You can go from no bubbles to blowing the reactor of the side of the tank in about a ¼ turn even at pressures less than 5PSI. I had the same problem. I'd recommend the Swagelok B-4MG fine metering valve. You can find it on-line at www.swagelok.com. The full catalog with all the specs for their needle valves is at http://www.swagelok.com/downloads/we.../MS-01-142.pdf. Cheers, Michi. -- Michi Henning Ph: +61 4 1118-2700 ZeroC, Inc. http://www.zeroc.com |
#5
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scott
I'm using Clippard valves on all my tanks now and have found them to be satisfactory. Models MNV-4K or MNV-3K should work for you. Their flow to turn ratio are almost identical at the bottom end that you will be working at. If you do order the valves don't forget to order the 1/8" barb adapters to fit into the 10/32 threads. Do a google search and you should be able to come up with a supplier near you. PS |
#6
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wrote in message
.. . I'm using Clippard valves on all my tanks now and have found them to be satisfactory. Models MNV-4K or MNV-3K should work for you. Their flow to turn ratio are almost identical at the bottom end that you will be working at. I tried the MNV-4K. While it works, it doesn't give fine control. Mine goes from 1 bubble per second to something like 30 bubbles per second over a tiny fraction (maybe 2 degrees) of a turn. The Swagelok valve is much better than that. Cheers, Michi. -- Michi Henning Ph: +61 4 1118-2700 ZeroC, Inc. http://www.zeroc.com |
#7
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On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 20:44:06 GMT, "Michi Henning"
wrote: wrote in message . .. I'm using Clippard valves on all my tanks now and have found them to be satisfactory. Models MNV-4K or MNV-3K should work for you. Their flow to turn ratio are almost identical at the bottom end that you will be working at. I tried the MNV-4K. While it works, it doesn't give fine control. Mine goes from 1 bubble per second to something like 30 bubbles per second over a tiny fraction (maybe 2 degrees) of a turn. The Swagelok valve is much better than that. Cheers, Michi. -- Michi Henning Ph: +61 4 1118-2700 ZeroC, Inc. http://www.zeroc.com Michi what was the pressure on the valve? I'm using 8 psi and its working well for me. The Swagelok valves are a better quality but they have a price tag that goes along with that. take care PS |
#8
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wrote in message
.. . I tried the MNV-4K. While it works, it doesn't give fine control. Mine goes from 1 bubble per second to something like 30 bubbles per second over a tiny fraction (maybe 2 degrees) of a turn. The Swagelok valve is much better than that. Michi what was the pressure on the valve? I'm using 8 psi and its working well for me. The Swagelok valves are a better quality but they have a price tag that goes along with that. I don't know the pressure -- I'm using the regulator from an Eheim CO2 system, which has only a single pressure gauge that measure the pressure in the tank. There is no gauge that shows the pressure after the regulator. BTW, I've had bad experiences with the Eheim CO2 system, and I wouldn't recommend it. Almost everything about that system is rubbish, and I ended up having to replace all of it, except for the regulator. Cheers, Michi. -- Michi Henning Ph: +61 4 1118-2700 ZeroC, Inc. http://www.zeroc.com |
#9
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I don't know the pressure -- I'm using the regulator from an Eheim CO2 system, which has only a single pressure gauge that measure the pressure in the tank. There is no gauge that shows the pressure after the regulator. BTW, I've had bad experiences with the Eheim CO2 system, and I wouldn't recommend it. Almost everything about that system is rubbish, and I ended up having to replace all of it, except for the regulator. (snip) You really should get a regulator (they are quite inexpensive). That way you can have infinite control over your CO2 output. I use a 75 lb bottle connected to a 4 port (each port has a valve) header at the regulator. From there I feed a 1/4" line which branches off into seperate valves at each tank. My bubble rate for most tanks (70 gal. average) is 1/sec. Plants and algae are doing great take care PS |
#10
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wrote in message
.. . You really should get a regulator (they are quite inexpensive). That way you can have infinite control over your CO2 output. I use a 75 lb bottle connected to a 4 port (each port has a valve) header at the regulator. From there I feed a 1/4" line which branches off into seperate valves at each tank. My bubble rate for most tanks (70 gal. average) is 1/sec. Plants and algae are doing great Well, I don't really need very fine control. I'm putting the CO2 into an external Reactor 1000 by Aqua Medic (see http://www.aquaristikshop.com/e_arti...actor_1000.htm). That one is so efficient at dissolving CO2 that it doesn't matter whether you run 5 or 50 bubbles per second. A pH meter connected to a controller and solenoid takes care of switching the CO2 off when the pH drops low enough, so I don't have to worry about poisoning my fish. But, you are right -- it's much nicer to have a regulator that allows adjustment of the working pressure and, if you don't have the CO2 supply on a pH meter and controller, it's pretty much essential in order to get consistent and low bubble rates. Cheers, Michi. -- Michi Henning Ph: +61 4 1118-2700 ZeroC, Inc. http://www.zeroc.com |
#11
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"I'd recommend the Swagelok B-4MG fine metering valve.
You can find it on-line at www.swagelok.com. The full catalog with all the specs for their needle valves is at http://www.swagelok.com/downloads/we.../MS-01-142.pdf. Cheers, Michi." Paul on the Clippard side....... I think you have a nice valve in both cases and you get a nice item for your $. One's the economy Clippard, runs about 11$, the other is the old Nu Pro Swagelok which is very nice over the long run if you are willing to pay more for them(38$). I find the Clippards are fine, but the Swagelok's are nice and worth the cost difference. Depends on the funds:-) But they both do a good job. Regards, Tom Barr |
#13
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I have been through this problem as well. I have gone through
"precision needle valves" and other junk. The best solution of commercial equipment for planted tanks in the US is the Eheim regulator with diffuser. I use it in combination with a pH controller that is almost unnecessary with the stability of this unit. I use a Dennerle Check valve for safety too. drsfostersmith carries this unit with a us co2 tank adapter. I have used dwyer needle valve, super precision needle valve, but the eheim step down is very stable. I also use one on a calcium reactor with excellent results |
#14
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Drew_Y wrote:
I have been through this problem as well. I have gone through "precision needle valves" and other junk. The best solution of commercial equipment for planted tanks in the US is the Eheim regulator with diffuser. I use it in combination with a pH controller that is almost unnecessary with the stability of this unit. I use a Dennerle Check valve for safety too. drsfostersmith carries this unit with a us co2 tank adapter. I have used dwyer needle valve, super precision needle valve, but the eheim step down is very stable. I also use one on a calcium reactor with excellent results Take a look at my web site for info on various metering and needle valves. I have never heard of the "dwyer" needle valve. Can you provide more information? http://members.cox.net/tulsaalstons/...mendations.htm Bob |
#15
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"Drew_Y" wrote in message
oups.com... The best solution of commercial equipment for planted tanks in the US is the Eheim regulator with diffuser. I use it in combination with a pH controller that is almost unnecessary with the stability of this unit. That's interesting. I orginally started out with an Eheim CO2 system (regulator, diffusor, solenoid, and pH probe/controller). I was very disappointed with the system and ended up replacing all of it, except for the regulator. I would never buy this system again. Here is a list of things that I think are wrong with it: - The regulator has only one gauge that shows bottle pressure, and there is no second gauge for the working pressure. The second gauge isn't essential but, considering that the Eheim system is no cheaper than CO2 systems from other manufacturers, I don't see why it couldn't provide matching features. - There is no way to adjust working pressure. The working pressure is fixed by the regulator and the only other adjustment to control CO2 flow is via the needle valve. - The needle valve is attached directly to the bottom of the regulator. The valve does not have a handle; instead, there is a small screw that you have to turn with a small screwdriver to adjust the needle valve. This is quite awkward because the screw isn't even visible (the needle valve is mounted at the bottom of the regulator with the screw head pointing downwards and recessed), and if you keep your CO2 bottle below the tank in a cupboard (as many people do), you end up on your knees blindly fumbling around with the screwdriver to try and find the screw slot. - The needle valve doesn't have sufficiently fine control. Minute adjustments on the valve result in large variations of CO2 flow, making it difficult to set the correct flow rate. - The needle valve has a tendency to lose its setting. Having set the flow rate, I repeatedly found that, by the next morning, the flow had either stopped completely, or increased to the point where most of the CO2 was lost because the bubbles got too large and simply burst at the water surface. I got quite sick of the game of getting up each morning and having to re-adjust the flow rate, only to find that, by the time I came home in the evening, the setting had been lost yet again. - The tubing is attached to the needle valve with a simple barb and, from there, runs to the solenoid. When the solenoid is closed, pressure builds up inside the tubing, and there is a tendency for CO2 to leak between the tubing and the barb. There is no clamp or similar to secure the hose to the barb. Other manufactures provide more secure ways to attach the tubing, such as a screw clamp or a proper push-in hose connector. - The CO2 diffusor doesn't work all that well. Even when mounted at the bottom of a 24" tall tank, so the bubbles get a long path to the surface, quite a bit of the CO2 ends up being lost at the surface. - The diffusor disk gradually clogs up with algae and debris and has to be cleaned regularly, which is quite an arduous process. There are many other diffusor designs that are maintenance free and work better. - The solenoid is housed in a separate box with some electronics, and the box has two small plastic barbs to which the tubing is attached. The barbs are quite brittle and, after a few months, one of the barbs developed a small crack, so I had a permanent leak at that point. The barbs are part of the solenoid valve, so if a barb breaks, you have to replace the solenoid valve. I opened up the box and removed the solenoid, and went to Eheim to get a replacement. Eheim refused to sell the solenoid separately and insisted that I had to replace the entire control box (including electronics) at a cost of $155.00. And all that because a plastic piece worth less than 5c had failed! And the barbs could have been made of brass in the first place, in which case the entire problem would never have arisen. I ended up replacing the solenoid with an industrial-grade one, with proper hose connections. Unfortunately, the Eheim control electronics are designed for a 12V solenoid (not a 110/230V one, as is more common), and can only deliver around 200mA of current, so I ended up having to add a relay to switch the replacement solenoid. - The pH control unit allows you to calibrate the probe for the pH 7.0 neutral point, but it does not permit setting of the slope (with a pH 4.0 or pH 9.0 calibration solution). As the pH probe ages, it's slope changes, but there is no way to compensate for that with the Eheim controller. After less than a year, the reading on the controller was out by as much as 0.3 degrees. I contacted Eheim about this and was told that adjustment for the slope "is not necessary". (Interestingly, the Eheim system ships with both 7.0 and 9.0 calibration fluids, but the controller has no mechanism to actually make use of the 9.0 fluid.) Of course, a deviation of 0.3 degrees is completely unacceptable. (At a KH of 5, that corresponds to the difference between 12ppm of CO2 and 24ppm.) - The pH control unit is digital. When power fails, it loses both its calibration and the target pH setting (reverting back to a target setting of 7.0 without any calibration). This is useless -- every time I change a light bulb or lose power (not uncommon during summer in a subtropical climate with lots of storms), I have to go and recalibrate the probe and reset the target value. pH controllers from other manufacturers do not have this problem and retain both calibration and target setting after power fails. So, overall, I think there are too many problems with this system to recommend it. You can get higher quality and more reliable components from other manufacturers, and at a lower price to boot. Cheers, Michi. -- Michi Henning Ph: +61 4 1118-2700 ZeroC, Inc. http://www.zeroc.com |
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