On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 03:16:14 GMT, Pam wrote:



Tom Jaszewski wrote:

On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 02:19:22 GMT, Pam wrote:

it is a general use
pesticide that is readily available to homeowners for residential use.

gosh Pam how many quarts of Diazinon hundreds of r nurseries sell
under the same guise?

Gosh, Tom, do you think there is any difference between the two products? Come on, let's use some common
sense. There is just a tad bit of difference between an organophosphate neurotoxin and a seed
germination inhibitor.


Endocrine-disrupting effects
Trifluralin is an endocrine-disrupting chemical, according to both the
UK Environment Agency and the World Wide Fund for Nature(25). These
chemicals have adverse, ‘gender-bender’ effects by interfering with
the body’s hormones, or chemical messengers, and are active at even
miniscule levels (see PAN UK briefing No.2 Mixed messages: pesticides
that confuse hormones).





"As crude a weapon as a cave man's club the chemical barrage has been hurled at the fabric of life."
Rachel Carson

Tom Jaszewski wrote:

On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 03:16:14 GMT, Pam wrote:



Tom Jaszewski wrote:

On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 02:19:22 GMT, Pam wrote:

it is a general use
pesticide that is readily available to homeowners for residential use.

gosh Pam how many quarts of Diazinon hundreds of r nurseries sell
under the same guise?

Gosh, Tom, do you think there is any difference between the two products? Come on, let's use some common
sense. There is just a tad bit of difference between an organophosphate neurotoxin and a seed
germination inhibitor.

Endocrine-disrupting effects
Trifluralin is an endocrine-disrupting chemical, according to both the
UK Environment Agency and the World Wide Fund for Nature(25). These
chemicals have adverse, ‘gender-bender’ effects by interfering with
the body’s hormones, or chemical messengers, and are active at even
miniscule levels (see PAN UK briefing No.2 Mixed messages: pesticides
that confuse hormones).

Suggest you do some further reading (and include some scientific studies rather than simply relying solely on
environmental organizations with their own agenda) - trifluralin is "suspected" of being an endocrine
disruptor, however the endocrine disrupting potential of chemical pesticides is considered to be negligible
compared to those ED sources found in waste treatment plants, animal manure and dietary supplements - heck,
soybeans, apples, wheat and peas are KNOWN endocrine disruptors!

While it is certainly appropriate to be concerned about the use of any chemical pesticide (and even so-called
"organic" products) and the effects they may have on long term environmental and health issues, it is equally
important to understand and develop the knowledge base to put the issue into proper perspective. This is an
issue where even the scientists involved in the research have differing opinions as to its significance. The
science is still being developed and the EPA is fully aware of the concern and has mandated additional
testing under new methods of analysis and evaluation as they become available.

Knowledge is the key when using any type of pesticide, however it is counterproductive to even those
proponents of pesticide reform (and that includes me!) to involve unfounded hypotheses and scare tactics
rather than relying on scientific testing and documented evidence. I sure don't hear any hue and cry about
using animal manures in one's garden, but they pose a much larger threat to endocrine disruption than do the
appropriate and labeled use of suspected chemical pesticides. And are you going to think twice before eating
your next apple?

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

pam - gardengal

I understand you to say you dont prefer chemical treatment in a
garden. As much as I understand that, there is little room for your
type of reply. If you have no experience with the product, refrain
from responding.


oh no the chemical nazi ng police.

I agree, no pREEN!

"Come into my garden, my flowers want to meet you!"

On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 14:38:51 GMT, Pam wrote:

Suggest you do some further reading (and include some scientific studies rather than simply relying solely on
environmental organizations with their own agenda) - trifluralin is "suspected" of being an endocrine
disruptor, however the endocrine disrupting potential of chemical pesticides is considered to be negligible
compared to those ED sources found in waste treatment plants, animal manure and dietary supplements - heck,
soybeans, apples, wheat and peas are KNOWN endocrine disruptors!

Sounds like more of the Roundup rationale. Gosh, salt is poisonous
too!

While it is certainly appropriate to be concerned about the use of any chemical pesticide (and even so-called
"organic" products) and the effects they may have on long term environmental and health issues, it is equally
important to understand and develop the knowledge base to put the issue into proper perspective. This is an
issue where even the scientists involved in the research have differing opinions as to its significance. The
science is still being developed and the EPA is fully aware of the concern and has mandated additional
testing under new methods of analysis and evaluation as they become available.

And yet you readily accept products and the company funded research.
Are you going to tell me you've never trusted the Dursban sales
pitches?

Knowledge is the key when using any type of pesticide, however it is counterproductive to even those
proponents of pesticide reform (and that includes me!) to involve unfounded hypotheses and scare tactics
rather than relying on scientific testing and documented evidence. I sure don't hear any hue and cry about
using animal manures in one's garden, but they pose a much larger threat to endocrine disruption than do the
appropriate and labeled use of suspected chemical pesticides. And are you going to think twice before eating
your next apple?

You bet I think about what got used in the production of that apple!

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

You're right! Some day I'll know as much as you, for now I'll continue
to lack trust in most pesticides and their manufacturers.

pam - gardengal



"As crude a weapon as a cave man's club the chemical barrage has been hurled at the fabric of life."
Rachel Carson

Hey,
It says SAFE in vegetable gardens, gives NO mention on the lable regarding
corn. The WEBSITE does now, it didnt before. All I did was ask a
question...............can you not answer it or be quiet if you dont have a
FACTUAL answer??

Thats the part thats WOW.......


"animaux" wrote in message
...
Are you crazy? You would actually use a product which is toxic and
labeled NOT
FOR USE ON VEGETABLES and then eat it? Wow. The mind boggles.


On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 23:29:34 GMT, "chaz" wrote:

I shopped online for info on PREEN, which is supposed to control weeds.
They
had no info on the site on particulars on the vegetable varieties you can
use it on.

So I go get a box and they have a NEW web site TONIGHT. It says not to
use
it on sweet corn.

Has anyone used this on corn with success? IS there any way I could do
this
without messing up the germination?

chaz-

Pam wrote in message news:


Suggest you do some further reading (and include some scientific studies rather than simply relying solely on
environmental organizations with their own agenda) - trifluralin is "suspected" of being an endocrine
disruptor, however the endocrine disrupting potential of chemical pesticides is considered to be negligible
compared to those ED sources found in waste treatment plants, animal manure and dietary supplements - heck,
soybeans, apples, wheat and peas are KNOWN endocrine disruptors!


Sorry, but if an organization's "agenda" is to protect the public, I
may be a lot more inclined to believe them than a corporation or its
serfs.

Pam wrote in message ...


While it is certainly appropriate to be concerned about the use of any chemical pesticide (and even so-called
"organic" products) and the effects they may have on long term environmental and health issues, it is equally
important to understand and develop the knowledge base to put the issue into proper perspective. This is an
issue where even the scientists involved in the research have differing opinions as to its significance. The
science is still being developed and the EPA is fully aware of the concern and has mandated additional
testing under new methods of analysis and evaluation as they become available.


Rrrright... This is the same excuse used for global warming and almost
everything else that does not coincide with Tom DeLay's beliefs ("the
science is still being developed"). I used to work for the EPA, and
can assure you that the EPA's awareness of an issue rarely translates
into anything resembling action, especially when the offices are
stuffed to the gills with former Monsanto, Dow, and DuPont employees.

David Simmons wrote:

Pam wrote in message news:


Suggest you do some further reading (and include some scientific studies rather than simply relying solely on
environmental organizations with their own agenda) - trifluralin is "suspected" of being an endocrine
disruptor, however the endocrine disrupting potential of chemical pesticides is considered to be negligible
compared to those ED sources found in waste treatment plants, animal manure and dietary supplements - heck,
soybeans, apples, wheat and peas are KNOWN endocrine disruptors!


Sorry, but if an organization's "agenda" is to protect the public, I
may be a lot more inclined to believe them than a corporation or its
serfs.

The information presented was not provided by any corporate entity or its "serfs' but by recognized health agencies
and scientific papers, among them the Japanese Institute for Health Science and the Canadian Center for
Occupational Health and Safety and the EXTOXNET Pesticide Profiles.

I am not in the practice of defending the chemical pesticide megacorps nor advocating the use of pesticides - I am
simply attempting to increase awareness and provide established information, rather than resorting to eco-scare
tactics which are unsubstantiated and are counterproductive to the serious scientific basis underlying the
pesticide reform movement. Pesticide reform is needed and necessary, but it is not going to be accomplished by
those out there labeling all pesticides and their use as evil and poisonous without understanding or knowledge of
the product in question. And that includes a great many so-called organic or natural products, which can be as
toxic and as detrimental to human health with repeated or overuse as any chemical product.

The key to pesticide use is knowledge. The more you know, the more you are able to make informed decisions and that
in a nutshell is what it all boils down to. If you want to remain uninformed, that is your business, but don't you
dare chastise me or anyone else for attempting to provide enlightenment supported by scientific research if you
yourself don't know the facts.