In article ,
John Bachman wrote:

On Sun, 27 May 2007 20:09:21 -0900, Jan Flora
wrote:

In article ,
"Bob F" wrote:

"Jack S" wrote in message
ink.net...
I've got a rock "lawn" and I would like to quit using herbicide for
killing weeds, and try scorching them instead.

There are a lot of weed / roofing torches on ebay and I was
wondering if there is anything to choose for or against in buying
one. The one I'm leaning toward getting says: "3000+ Fahrenheit" -
that's enough, right?

Here in Seattle, use of "weed burners" is illegal. FWIW.

Bob

Is the OP in Seattle? If not, who cares?

I just burned my "lawn" and garden off. It's finally time
to plant. And we're going to burn 20 acres of hay meadows off
that we weren't able to hay last year, due to Seattle-type
weather all frigging summer.

Jan in Alaska
The farmers here (NH) used to burn off their fields regularly. Burning
really spruced up the fields nicely, killing weed seeds and other
pests "reconditioned" the soil for the new crop. It was a nice,
organic time honored method.

But the environmentalists managed to outlaw field burning on air
pollution grounds. So now the farmers use chemical methods to control
weeds and other pests. This is a perfect example of the law of
unintended consequences.

Did those opposing field burning really accomplish anything?

JHMO

John

Alaska is being invaded by people who are opposed to everything,
even if they don't know what the f*ck they're talking about.

We're supposed to call the fire hall in town (22 miles away) if
we want to light our burn barrel now. Like that would do us a lot
of good. I've never seen our local fire department lose a foundation
yet.

By the time they get here, houses are a total loss and the guys
show up and water-down the smoldering debris and foundation,
make a big mess, destroy the yard and driveway, then strut around
like they did something important.

It's getting so people with common sense are outlawed from
doing what any man with a lick of sense would do.

Jan

--
Bedouin proverb: If you have no troubles, buy a goat.

Jan Flora expounded:

I've never seen our local fire department lose a foundation
yet.

Yea, they call them cellar savers up in NH and Maine (where there
isn't municipal water supplies in many areas).
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

In article ,
Jan Flora wrote:

In article ,
John Bachman wrote:


The farmers here (NH) used to burn off their fields regularly. Burning
really spruced up the fields nicely, killing weed seeds and other
pests "reconditioned" the soil for the new crop. It was a nice,
organic time honored method.

But the environmentalists managed to outlaw field burning on air
pollution grounds. So now the farmers use chemical methods to control
weeds and other pests. This is a perfect example of the law of
unintended consequences.

Did those opposing field burning really accomplish anything?

JHMO

John

Alaska is being invaded by people who are opposed to everything,
even if they don't know what the f*ck they're talking about.

We're supposed to call the fire hall in town (22 miles away) if
we want to light our burn barrel now. Like that would do us a lot
of good. I've never seen our local fire department lose a foundation
yet.

By the time they get here, houses are a total loss and the guys
show up and water-down the smoldering debris and foundation,
make a big mess, destroy the yard and driveway, then strut around
like they did something important.

It's getting so people with common sense are outlawed from
doing what any man with a lick of sense would do.

Jan

I'm a long way from both of you (N. Calif.) but it is the same deal
here. When I moved here to Sonoma County, some 35 years ago, we would
chuckle about how our smog would blow down to San Francisco leaving us
to breath clean, fresh air. Fast forward and we can't get rid of it now.
Saddening to look east, towards Santa Rosa, and see an orangyish, gray
sky hanging over the valley whereas, if you look west, towards the
redwoods, the sky may have some low clouds or fog but it is clean, to
the naked eye.

Part of the reason I left So. California was that I couldn't breath the
air any more. God, we had beautiful photochemical sunsets back in the
60's but the air would eat the tires right off your car. There were days
I couldn't exercise because I couldn't take a deep breath. That and the
fact that the housing tracts of Orange County couldn't compete with the
rolling, oak covered hills of the Bay Area, made me pack my bags and
move it on north.

Well, the population of Santa Rosa has increased about six fold since I
arrived. The air quality, the salmon and trout and, the traffic have all
gone to hell. Now I can feel the pressure of having to get one of those
low emission, EPA approved wood pellet stoves. Children and, people in
middle age, are getting asthma. People with heart problems are getting
lee-tell, teeny-weeny particles in their lung, making it harder for them
to breath. What to do? Damn-it, the smell of wood smoke is one of the
few rewards we have in the fall. I love it.

I don't know the answer. I'm sure there are plenty of SOBs out there,
like Monsanto, who are trying to spin this (and are willing to give
campaign contributions to the right politician) in their direction. Best
we can do, as far as I can see (Oh lord, not another learning curve.),
is to find out what everybody needs and then try to accommodate each
other.

We used to have burn days here in Sonoma County but I haven't heard them
mentioned for years. I'm not a farmer so I haven't kept up with their
(and rightly, our's too) problems. Burning the fields has always been a
wise way to finish or start the agricultural year. (Can't just till them
under for compost, huh?)

We need our farmers. We need to change "price supports" back to the
"farmer supports" of the New Deal. If you ask Jan and John, I'm sure
they'll tell you that there is good money to be made in food. Just not
in the growing of it.

So I guess the only justification for this mind fart, that I appear to
be having, is that we should all have a right not to have our work made
more difficult than it already is and, we all should have a right to
breath clean air. But as Lenny Bruce used to say,"What should be, isn't
what is".

Good luck making any sense out of this.

- Bill
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

"Jan Flora" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Bob F" wrote:

"Jack S" wrote in message
ink.net...
I've got a rock "lawn" and I would like to quit using herbicide
for
killing weeds, and try scorching them instead.

There are a lot of weed / roofing torches on ebay and I was
wondering if there is anything to choose for or against in buying
one. The one I'm leaning toward getting says: "3000+
Fahrenheit" -
that's enough, right?

Here in Seattle, use of "weed burners" is illegal. FWIW.

Bob

Is the OP in Seattle? If not, who cares?

Just suggesting that it could be an issue. He could be in seattle, or
it could be illegal where he is.

Bob

On Tue, 29 May 2007 09:24:06 -0700, Bill Rose
wrote:

In article ,
Jan Flora wrote:

In article ,
John Bachman wrote:


The farmers here (NH) used to burn off their fields regularly. Burning
really spruced up the fields nicely, killing weed seeds and other
pests "reconditioned" the soil for the new crop. It was a nice,
organic time honored method.

But the environmentalists managed to outlaw field burning on air
pollution grounds. So now the farmers use chemical methods to control
weeds and other pests. This is a perfect example of the law of
unintended consequences.

Did those opposing field burning really accomplish anything?

JHMO

John

Alaska is being invaded by people who are opposed to everything,
even if they don't know what the f*ck they're talking about.

We're supposed to call the fire hall in town (22 miles away) if
we want to light our burn barrel now. Like that would do us a lot
of good. I've never seen our local fire department lose a foundation
yet.

By the time they get here, houses are a total loss and the guys
show up and water-down the smoldering debris and foundation,
make a big mess, destroy the yard and driveway, then strut around
like they did something important.

It's getting so people with common sense are outlawed from
doing what any man with a lick of sense would do.

Jan

Just to make sure that there is no misunderstanding, use of a propane
weed burner has nothing to do with burning fields.

You do not have to char the weed, just apply a bit of heat to it and
get it to wilt a bit and that sucker is a goner.

I wet down the area before I use my burner - that prevents flare ups
but I keep the hose handy just in case. Use a little common sense and
there is no problem. I cannot imagine any justification for outlawing
their use.

Sure, stupid people mis-using a weed burner can cause problems but you
can say that about the use of many, many products including cars,
chainsaws and lawnmowers. We should not penalize the conscientious
user to protect the idiots from themselves.

JMHO

John

In article ,
John Bachman wrote:

On Tue, 29 May 2007 09:24:06 -0700, Bill Rose
wrote:

In article ,
Jan Flora wrote:

In article ,
John Bachman wrote:


The farmers here (NH) used to burn off their fields regularly. Burning
really spruced up the fields nicely, killing weed seeds and other
pests "reconditioned" the soil for the new crop. It was a nice,
organic time honored method.

But the environmentalists managed to outlaw field burning on air
pollution grounds. So now the farmers use chemical methods to control
weeds and other pests. This is a perfect example of the law of
unintended consequences.

Did those opposing field burning really accomplish anything?

JHMO

John

Alaska is being invaded by people who are opposed to everything,
even if they don't know what the f*ck they're talking about.

We're supposed to call the fire hall in town (22 miles away) if
we want to light our burn barrel now. Like that would do us a lot
of good. I've never seen our local fire department lose a foundation
yet.

By the time they get here, houses are a total loss and the guys
show up and water-down the smoldering debris and foundation,
make a big mess, destroy the yard and driveway, then strut around
like they did something important.

It's getting so people with common sense are outlawed from
doing what any man with a lick of sense would do.

Jan

Just to make sure that there is no misunderstanding, use of a propane
weed burner has nothing to do with burning fields.

You do not have to char the weed, just apply a bit of heat to it and
get it to wilt a bit and that sucker is a goner.

I wet down the area before I use my burner - that prevents flare ups
but I keep the hose handy just in case. Use a little common sense and
there is no problem. I cannot imagine any justification for outlawing
their use.

Sure, stupid people mis-using a weed burner can cause problems but you
can say that about the use of many, many products including cars,
chainsaws and lawnmowers. We should not penalize the conscientious
user to protect the idiots from themselves.

JMHO

John


You can use your weedburner the way you want and I'll use mine the
way I want.

We use it to light off hay meadows, pastures and lawns that need old
grass cleaned off. I burn my yard every spring. The native bluestem
(Calamagrastis Canadensis) gets six foot tall every summer, if it's
not kept grazed or mowed down.

It's a common practice in this area to burn the meadows every spring,
right before greenup, and has been since the 1930's, when the first
homesteaders showed up. It helps keep encroaching willows beat back, too.

We also use the weed burner, AKA The Tiger Torch, to light the
woodstove and the shop stove, to preheat the engines on our diesel
farm tractor and various bulldozers in the winter, and recently used it
to fire the pressure canner to steam open an ABS waterline with a
40' plug of ice in it. (That took 3 days.)

I've heard that you can use a weed burner to burn green weeds back,
but have never seen anyone use one for that.

Jan in Alaska

--
Bedouin proverb: If you have no troubles, buy a goat.

On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 12:53:15 -0900, Jan Flora
wrote:

In article ,
In article ,
John Bachman wrote:


The farmers here (NH) used to burn off their fields regularly. Burning
really spruced up the fields nicely, killing weed seeds and other
pests "reconditioned" the soil for the new crop. It was a nice,
organic time honored method.

But the environmentalists managed to outlaw field burning on air
pollution grounds. So now the farmers use chemical methods to control
weeds and other pests. This is a perfect example of the law of
unintended consequences.

Did those opposing field burning really accomplish anything?
Just to make sure that there is no misunderstanding, use of a propane
weed burner has nothing to do with burning fields.

You do not have to char the weed, just apply a bit of heat to it and
get it to wilt a bit and that sucker is a goner.

I wet down the area before I use my burner - that prevents flare ups
but I keep the hose handy just in case. Use a little common sense and
there is no problem. I cannot imagine any justification for outlawing
their use.

You can use your weedburner the way you want and I'll use mine the
way I want.

We use it to light off hay meadows, pastures and lawns that need old
grass cleaned off. I burn my yard every spring. The native bluestem
(Calamagrastis Canadensis) gets six foot tall every summer, if it's
not kept grazed or mowed down.

It's a common practice in this area to burn the meadows every spring,
right before greenup, and has been since the 1930's, when the first
homesteaders showed up. It helps keep encroaching willows beat back, too.

We also use the weed burner, AKA The Tiger Torch, to light the
woodstove and the shop stove, to preheat the engines on our diesel
farm tractor and various bulldozers in the winter, and recently used it
to fire the pressure canner to steam open an ABS waterline with a
40' plug of ice in it. (That took 3 days.)

I've heard that you can use a weed burner to burn green weeds back,
but have never seen anyone use one for that.


Ahh, I wish that burning off meadows was still available here (NH) but
alas the air pollution folks managed to get it outlawed.

Yes weed burners have many uses, melting ice in winter is another.

I use it on green weeds but only individually, not an area burn.

John

In article ,
John Bachman wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 12:53:15 -0900, Jan Flora
wrote:

In article ,
In article ,
John Bachman wrote:


The farmers here (NH) used to burn off their fields regularly. Burning
really spruced up the fields nicely, killing weed seeds and other
pests "reconditioned" the soil for the new crop. It was a nice,
organic time honored method.

But the environmentalists managed to outlaw field burning on air
pollution grounds. So now the farmers use chemical methods to control
weeds and other pests. This is a perfect example of the law of
unintended consequences.

Did those opposing field burning really accomplish anything?
Just to make sure that there is no misunderstanding, use of a propane
weed burner has nothing to do with burning fields.

You do not have to char the weed, just apply a bit of heat to it and
get it to wilt a bit and that sucker is a goner.

I wet down the area before I use my burner - that prevents flare ups
but I keep the hose handy just in case. Use a little common sense and
there is no problem. I cannot imagine any justification for outlawing
their use.

You can use your weedburner the way you want and I'll use mine the
way I want.

We use it to light off hay meadows, pastures and lawns that need old
grass cleaned off. I burn my yard every spring. The native bluestem
(Calamagrastis Canadensis) gets six foot tall every summer, if it's
not kept grazed or mowed down.

It's a common practice in this area to burn the meadows every spring,
right before greenup, and has been since the 1930's, when the first
homesteaders showed up. It helps keep encroaching willows beat back, too.

We also use the weed burner, AKA The Tiger Torch, to light the
woodstove and the shop stove, to preheat the engines on our diesel
farm tractor and various bulldozers in the winter, and recently used it
to fire the pressure canner to steam open an ABS waterline with a
40' plug of ice in it. (That took 3 days.)

I've heard that you can use a weed burner to burn green weeds back,
but have never seen anyone use one for that.


Ahh, I wish that burning off meadows was still available here (NH) but
alas the air pollution folks managed to get it outlawed.

Yes weed burners have many uses, melting ice in winter is another.

I use it on green weeds but only individually, not an area burn.

John


The only air pollution troubles we have up here is when a volcano goes
off or when we get a big forest fire. There are 600,000 people in Alaska,
on a land mass of ~550 million acres. Not enough cars and no factories to
produce air you can see. Although due to terrain, some towns have
outlawed woodstoves without catalytic converters. (Juneau is one.) And
Fairbanks sits in a bowl, just like Lost Angeles, but in Fairbanks, it's
ice fog that lays in the bowl, not smog. (Ice fog is when moisture in
the air freezes and turns to fog. It's a real trip to see for the first
time. It happens at about -45F. or colder.)

For winter ice, I get buckets of beach sand/small gravel to spread, when
I'm down there after storms gathering seaweed to lay on the garden beds.

My whole yard is weeds. I'm trying to convert a wilderness to a garden,
one little bit at a time. But some of the weeds are really cool
wildflowers, so they get to stay...

Jan in Alaska

--
Bedouin proverb: If you have no troubles, buy a goat.

Jan Flora wrote in news:snowshoe-8A18E9.01121204062007
@prawn.nwc.acsalaska.net:

(Ice fog is when moisture in
the air freezes and turns to fog. It's a real trip to see for the first
time. It happens at about -45F. or colder.)

We have ice fog here (Indiana) sometimes, too, and it doesn't get that cold
here. I have photos of my horses out in it, AAMOF. Or at least it's what
they call "freezing fog" here. Is there a difference? To see photo which
will tell you absolutely nothing except there is fog and horses, go to:
http://community.webshots.com/user/deerhnd
fourth page.