Sigh - I think I'm hoist on my own petard.

I planted cucumbers and corn together, thinking that
the cucumbers would twine around the corn stalks as they grew.

Instead -- and maybe because I planted too thickly -- the corn
is going gang busters, but is shading the cucumbers. Little cukes are
forming, but I am concerned about the perceived lack of sunshine.

So I have a BIG DECISION to make:

Do I move some of the corn to let more light in on the cukes?

Or do I move the cukes and figure out some other way of
training them up.

IOW, which is likely to be more upset by the transplanting?

Persephne

Persephone wrote in message
...

Sigh - I think I'm hoist on my own petard.

I planted cucumbers and corn together, thinking that
the cucumbers would twine around the corn stalks as they grew.

Instead -- and maybe because I planted too thickly -- the corn
is going gang busters, but is shading the cucumbers. Little cukes are
forming, but I am concerned about the perceived lack of sunshine.

So I have a BIG DECISION to make:

Do I move some of the corn to let more light in on the cukes?

Or do I move the cukes and figure out some other way of
training them up.

IOW, which is likely to be more upset by the transplanting?

You can't move the cukes, and if the corn is big enough to shade them, you
can't move it either. AFAIK, you can't transplant either. I've done this
before, and the cukes just didn't make it without sun. If you leave it all
alone, the corn will do fine and you will get few if any cukes. Only the
cukes that grow out of the south end of the corn patch will produce.

I just last week planted some short season corn. 59 day stuff, I figure it
will be ripe the first week of September, which is still good corn growing
season around here. Depending on where you live, you might be able to remove
some of the corn so that they cukes get sun, and maybe plant some short
season corn somewhere else.

On Wed, 4 Jul 2007 18:17:50 -0700, "Ook" Ook Don't send me any
freakin' spam at zootal dot com delete the Don't send me any freakin'
spam wrote:


Persephone wrote in message
m...

Sigh - I think I'm hoist on my own petard.

I planted cucumbers and corn together, thinking that
the cucumbers would twine around the corn stalks as they grew.

Instead -- and maybe because I planted too thickly -- the corn
is going gang busters, but is shading the cucumbers. Little cukes are
forming, but I am concerned about the perceived lack of sunshine.

So I have a BIG DECISION to make:

Do I move some of the corn to let more light in on the cukes?

Or do I move the cukes and figure out some other way of
training them up.

IOW, which is likely to be more upset by the transplanting?

You can't move the cukes,

My goodness, that is very "definite"!

Hellow, NG members -- Has anyone on this NG ever moved cukes?

Straight question.

and if the corn is big enough to shade them, you
can't move it either. AFAIK, you can't transplant either. I've done this
before, and the cukes just didn't make it without sun

Where are you?

I'm in So. Calif coastal, Zone 24/8.

Maybe the difference in locations has a bearing?

.. If you leave it all
alone, the corn will do fine and you will get few if any cukes. Only the
cukes that grow out of the south end of the corn patch will produce.

I just last week planted some short season corn. 59 day stuff, I figure it
will be ripe the first week of September, which is still good corn growing
season around here.

Where?

Depending on where you live, you might be able to remove
some of the corn so that they cukes get sun, and maybe plant some short
season corn somewhere else.

Awaiting your reply...

Persephone

Persephone expounded:

My goodness, that is very "definite"!

Hellow, NG members -- Has anyone on this NG ever moved cukes?

Straight question.

When they are very small with a huge rootball, yes. At the stage your
plants are at - no way.
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

You can't move the cukes,

My goodness, that is very "definite"!

Yes, and for a reason . Cukes are very very un-forgiving of having their
roots disturbed. As Ann said, if you dig up a huge rootball and if the
plants are young enough, you can get away with it. At the stage yours are
at, I'm not sure how big that root ball would have to be, probably quite
large, and you would have to be carefull that the root ball is intact and
does not shift internally. If you damage too many of the roots, the cukes
won't recover. Try it - dig up one or two, try a 12" rootball, and see how
it does. I have a feeling that 12" is not big enough, you may have to go out
18" or more.

I moved a small sunflower yesterday by digging up a 6" rootball. Poor thing
didn't last through the day. I would not have thought that sunflowers that
small would have that extensive of a root system already, but I was
apparently wrong. OTOH, tomatillos are hard to kill - I've pulled them out
and dropped them on the ground, and they survived and continued to grow.

Where are you?

I'm in So. Calif coastal, Zone 24/8.

Maybe the difference in locations has a bearing?

Lebanon, Oregon. Summers are hotter here then in the So. Ca. coastal zones,
but winter starts earlier. OTOH, if you are close enough to the coast, you
don't get much of a summer as it is. So, if you are not too close to the
water, it is not too late to plant short season corn. I don't know how well
corn does in the foggy cool wet beachfront weather.

On Thu, 5 Jul 2007 09:43:01 -0700, "Ook" Ook Don't send me any
freakin' spam at zootal dot com delete the Don't send me any freakin'
spam wrote:

You can't move the cukes,

My goodness, that is very "definite"!

Yes, and for a reason . Cukes are very very un-forgiving of having their
roots disturbed. As Ann said, if you dig up a huge rootball and if the
plants are young enough, you can get away with it. At the stage yours are
at, I'm not sure how big that root ball would have to be, probably quite
large, and you would have to be carefull that the root ball is intact and
does not shift internally. If you damage too many of the roots, the cukes
won't recover. Try it - dig up one or two, try a 12" rootball, and see how
it does. I have a feeling that 12" is not big enough, you may have to go out
18" or more.

I moved a small sunflower yesterday by digging up a 6" rootball. Poor thing
didn't last through the day. I would not have thought that sunflowers that
small would have that extensive of a root system already, but I was
apparently wrong. OTOH, tomatillos are hard to kill - I've pulled them out
and dropped them on the ground, and they survived and continued to grow.

Where are you?

I'm in So. Calif coastal, Zone 24/8.

Maybe the difference in locations has a bearing?

Lebanon, Oregon. Summers are hotter here then in the So. Ca. coastal zones,
but winter starts earlier. OTOH, if you are close enough to the coast, you
don't get much of a summer as it is. So, if you are not too close to the
water, it is not too late to plant short season corn. I don't know how well
corn does in the foggy cool wet beachfront weather.

Thanks for follow. I really did not know what you and Ann told me
about cukes getting upset at transplanting too late in the game.
Will experiment with several, as you suggest.

Our coastal climate down here is not really "foggy cool wet". During
May and June, it tends to be overcast night & morning (they call it
"June gloom") but the rest of the year it's sunny. TOO sunny! We
have had practically zilch rain for two years. Menacing!

People don't realize that the LA area is a desert, which became a huge
city only by dint of stealing water from the Owens valley.* Took
nearly a century to get LA to admit wrong and start minor
amelioration; meantime, Owens Valley had turned into a dust bowl.
There is very interesting populist history about this situation; the
aqueduct was blown up nine times by Owens Valley people who were irate
at getting screwed.

*And the "Chinatown" story of Mulholland bringing the water over the
mountains.

Persephone

Ook, I transplanted cukes last week and they are still doing fine. The
flowers keep coming.
--

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with
the intention of arriving safely in an attractive
and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in
one hand, Starbucks in the other, totally worn
out and screaming, "WOO HOO. what a ride!"


BetsyB



"Ook" Ook Don't send me any freakin' spam at zootal dot com delete the
Don't send me any freakin' spam wrote in message
...

Persephone wrote in message
...

Sigh - I think I'm hoist on my own petard.

I planted cucumbers and corn together, thinking that
the cucumbers would twine around the corn stalks as they grew.

Instead -- and maybe because I planted too thickly -- the corn
is going gang busters, but is shading the cucumbers. Little cukes are
forming, but I am concerned about the perceived lack of sunshine.

So I have a BIG DECISION to make:

Do I move some of the corn to let more light in on the cukes?

Or do I move the cukes and figure out some other way of
training them up.

IOW, which is likely to be more upset by the transplanting?

You can't move the cukes, and if the corn is big enough to shade them, you
can't move it either. AFAIK, you can't transplant either. I've done this
before, and the cukes just didn't make it without sun. If you leave it all
alone, the corn will do fine and you will get few if any cukes. Only the
cukes that grow out of the south end of the corn patch will produce.

I just last week planted some short season corn. 59 day stuff, I figure it
will be ripe the first week of September, which is still good corn growing
season around here. Depending on where you live, you might be able to
remove some of the corn so that they cukes get sun, and maybe plant some
short season corn somewhere else.

How big were they? How big of a rootball did you move? It can be done, you
just have to dig up enough of an intact root system to prevent the plant
from shutting down. I will be the first to admit to not knowing how big that
has to be.


"betsyb" wrote in message
...
Ook, I transplanted cukes last week and they are still doing fine. The
flowers keep coming.

Less than an inch but were in a hanging pot and needed moving. Checked them
this evening and they are almost 3 inches. I just scooped with two hands and
took what came with.

BetsyB



"Ook" Ook Don't send me any freakin' spam at zootal dot com delete the
Don't send me any freakin' spam wrote in message
...
How big were they? How big of a rootball did you move? It can be done, you
just have to dig up enough of an intact root system to prevent the plant
from shutting down. I will be the first to admit to not knowing how big
that has to be.


"betsyb" wrote in message
...
Ook, I transplanted cukes last week and they are still doing fine. The
flowers keep coming.

"betsyb" expounded:

Less than an inch but were in a hanging pot and needed moving. Checked them
this evening and they are almost 3 inches. I just scooped with two hands and
took what came with.

That size has a manageable rootball. You'd be surprised how big it
would be now. Most cucurbits hate any root disturbance and will let
you know it by dying! G
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

Instead -- and maybe because I planted too thickly -- the corn
is going gang busters, but is shading the cucumbers. Little cukes are
forming, but I am concerned about the perceived lack of sunshine.

Yes, a common issue with growing vines up corn stalks.

In the case of beans, there are bean varieties which are specifically
advertised for being more shade-tolerant than usual, just for growing
up corn stalks (for example, at http://www.southernexposure.com/ ).

Not that this helps you before next year, of course...

I have always started cukes this way and never had a problem. My yard is
very small. I live in a retirement community that does not permit vegetable
gardens? God knows why?
You have to sneak them amongst the flowers.

--

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with
the intention of arriving safely in an attractive
and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in
one hand, Starbucks in the other, totally worn
out and screaming, "WOO HOO. what a ride!"


BetsyB



"Ann" wrote in message
...
"betsyb" expounded:

Less than an inch but were in a hanging pot and needed moving. Checked
them
this evening and they are almost 3 inches. I just scooped with two hands
and
took what came with.

That size has a manageable rootball. You'd be surprised how big it
would be now. Most cucurbits hate any root disturbance and will let
you know it by dying! G
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************