On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 17:22:43 -0500, Charlie wrote:

On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 14:59:33 -0700, Persephone wrote:


1. Pouring hot water over the pebbles would kill the weeds, but would
it hurt the Princess Plant that grows in the middle of the area.

vs

2. Roundup, same concerns vis-a-vis the Princess Plant.

Your wisdom, please?

Persephone

Poison Bad.
Do Not Use Poison.
Poison Make People Sick, Maybe Die.
Poison Hurt Developing Babies.
Do Not Use Poison.
Poison Bad.

Monsanto Bad.
Do Not Use Monsanto.
Monsanto Make People Sick, Maybe Die.
Monsanto Hurt Developing Babies.
Do Not Use Monsanto.
Monsanto Bad.

Pull the g-damn weeds.

Wisdom enough?

Hi Charlie,

If you buy your food from the grocery store I wouldn't worry
too much about the pittance of Roundup any of us might use.

Typical notill farming for corn, soybeans and now they have
Roundup ready wheat seed too. Spray whole field with Roundup
and either plant at the same time or wait a few days. After
your desired crop is on the way up and the weeds are taking
hold spray whole field with Roundup again. The seed/crop has
been genetically engineered so it is virtually immune to
Roundup.

There are hundreds of acres with in easy walking distance
from me that have been douched with Roundup for many years
now.

I've seen/read studies showing that low levels of Glyphosate
(Roundup's active ingredient) can be detected in just about
everything we eat/buy made from corn, soybeans and wheat.

Use it judicially, but I wouldn't lose any sleep over what
we might do with it. Worry about the thousands and thousands
of acres douched with it by agriculture...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Jul 25, 1:02 am, Persephone wrote:


the above sensible suggestions:

weed-suppressing fabric, a few years ago, I and some friends took
a LOT of trouble to spread fabric in a rose path -- big hassle, trim,
cut holes, etc. My gardener warned me the weeds would come back
anyway -- and they did, big time, so I had extra work digging up &
removing the fabric and said never again. I understand there are
supposed to be different thicknesses of that stuff, perhaps some more
effective, but have only seen the ordinary in nursery/homeowner places
around here; don't want to order huge quantity on-line for tiny area.

Perse
The best weed suppressing "fabric" is newsprint. About 20 sheets of
newspaper covered with pebbles or bark will smother weeds and
by the time the paper decomposes they won't come back up.
Of course the paper lasts longer if you can keep the area fairly dry
but even
with water they last a surprosingly long time. Cheaper too.
I have used this method with success even over the dreaded Bermuda
Grass!

Both vinegar and boiling water work, but neither will discrimate
between
plants you want and weeds. Just keep them out of the root zone of
the PP.
Emilie

On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 17:16:31 GMT, Steve wrote:

On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 01:02:52 -0700, Persephone wrote:

weed-suppressing fabric, a few years ago, I and some friends took
a LOT of trouble to spread fabric in a rose path -- big hassle, trim,
cut holes, etc. My gardener warned me the weeds would come back
anyway -- and they did, big time, so I had extra work digging up &
removing the fabric and said never again. I understand there are
supposed to be different thicknesses of that stuff, perhaps some more
effective,

What does one do when the weed seed germinates and puts down roots
_through_ the fabric?

What happens after a few years as soil builds up on top of the fabric?

That is PRECISELY what happened!

So I think I'll go with OP's suggestion about multiple layers of
newsprint, IF I ever undertake a weed suppression program again!

Persephone

Persephone wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 04:48:57 GMT, "Dave"
wrote:

Persephone wrote in message
om...


I finally got around to dealing with an area, approx 3 ft
circumference, under one of the water faucets,
where the hose lies coiled (when it isn't sprawling over
the lawn g).

I've tried various ground covers, but weeds seem to take over.

So I poured a couple of sacks of pebbles in the area; looks
nice and neat. However, weeds starting to poke through.
I guess I could p.u.another couple of sacks of pebbles...but wondered
whether:

1. Pouring hot water over the pebbles would kill the weeds, but would
it hurt the Princess Plant that grows in the middle of the area.

vs

2. Roundup, same concerns vis-a-vis the Princess Plant.

Your wisdom, please?

Persephone

Dig up your precious plant, put it in a temp container. Go out to the
hill
country and find a landowner who is more than willing to give up some
cedars. Cut a few dozen down and chunk 'em in the truck. Get some oak
while you're out there. Tie down as it will be a big pile. Put a few
cedars on the weeds, and light 'em off. Feed another tree every 5
minutes
or so. Midway, add the oak. Will take a couple of hours. Be sure to
wash
down the side of the house so often so it don't burn down. Dig a hole in
the middle of the ash pile next day. Put your precious plant with
container
in the hole. Water it some. If the weeds come back, just dig up the
container. Use dynamite this time. You'll have to bring in some soil to
replace that blown away. A few yards or so... House repairs are
optional.

I KNEW somebody would come up with the perfect solution! Mes
hommages, Dave!

Persephone

I'd just kneel down and pull the weeds myself.

Gets tougher through pebbles. I pulled weeds in that area for years,
so finally thought I'd try the pebbles. I have them on the other side
of the house under the other faucet - several layers - and they seem
to be working pretty well.

Your choice. Consider putting the hose on a hanger.

I've looked at hose-hangers for years. They don't seem practical
when I'm using the hose almost every day. I got one of those
spiral jobbies that is suppose to retract on its own but it didn't
work for me so I returned it.

The idea solution is a hose cart; I tried locating one there, but
there just isn't room.

Persephone.





Same experience with end gutter rollup hose. Ends up falling off the vinyl
gutter. No matter how tight the clamp. Sure don't need a rain barrel this
year where I'm at, deluge.
Dave

"Leon Fisk" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 17:22:43 -0500, Charlie wrote:

On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 14:59:33 -0700, Persephone wrote:


1. Pouring hot water over the pebbles would kill the weeds, but would
it hurt the Princess Plant that grows in the middle of the area.

vs

2. Roundup, same concerns vis-a-vis the Princess Plant.

Your wisdom, please?

Persephone

Poison Bad.
Do Not Use Poison.
Poison Make People Sick, Maybe Die.
Poison Hurt Developing Babies.
Do Not Use Poison.
Poison Bad.

Monsanto Bad.
Do Not Use Monsanto.
Monsanto Make People Sick, Maybe Die.
Monsanto Hurt Developing Babies.
Do Not Use Monsanto.
Monsanto Bad.

Pull the g-damn weeds.

Wisdom enough?

Hi Charlie,

If you buy your food from the grocery store I wouldn't worry
too much about the pittance of Roundup any of us might use.

Typical notill farming for corn, soybeans and now they have
Roundup ready wheat seed too. Spray whole field with Roundup
and either plant at the same time or wait a few days. After
your desired crop is on the way up and the weeds are taking
hold spray whole field with Roundup again. The seed/crop has
been genetically engineered so it is virtually immune to
Roundup.

There are hundreds of acres with in easy walking distance
from me that have been douched with Roundup for many years
now.

I've seen/read studies showing that low levels of Glyphosate
(Roundup's active ingredient) can be detected in just about
everything we eat/buy made from corn, soybeans and wheat.

Use it judicially, but I wouldn't lose any sleep over what
we might do with it. Worry about the thousands and thousands
of acres douched with it by agriculture...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

Any long term studies by an independent group on cattle, swine, goats,
chickens eating such tainted feed or photosynthetic organism with
glysophate, including their offspring, their grand offspring etc.? If
financed by Monsanto, the results are mute.
Dave

Persephone wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 21:55:10 -0700, Sheldon wrote:

On Jul 24, 6:57?pm, Pennyaline wrote:
Persephone wrote:

I finally got around to dealing with an area, approx 3 ft
circumference, under one of the water faucets,
where the hose lies coiled (when it isn't sprawling over
the lawn g).

I've tried various ground covers, but weeds seem to take over.

So I poured a couple of sacks of pebbles in the area; looks
nice and neat. However, weeds starting to poke through.
I guess I could p.u.another couple of sacks of pebbles...but wondered
whether:

1. Pouring hot water over the pebbles would kill the weeds, but would
it hurt the Princess Plant that grows in the middle of the area.

vs

2. Roundup, same concerns vis-a-vis the Princess Plant.

Your wisdom, please?

Persephone

1. Rake up existing pebbles, put them aside on a tarp.
2. Weed whack the area down to bare ground.
3. Spread landscape/weed suppressing fabric over the bare area and pin
it down.
4. Neatly spread pebbles on top of the fabric.
5. Place edging around the pebbled area to keep them contained
(optional).

Not really optional, the critters will have them all strewn about in
no time. I wouldn't use pebbles, no matter how contained the majority
will eventually find their way into the lawn areas where they will
wreak havoc on lawnmower blades. I'd choose some nice large pieces of
pine bark mulch... the large pieces stay put, the small pieces wash
away in heavy rain. Cut small slits in the weed block fabric and
plant a few petunias.

Thanks for a message devoid of anti-Monsanto Jeremiads. Yes, we all
hate them. No, I don't know how far horizonally an application
spreads (germane to whether it would harm Princess Plant roots).

the above sensible suggestions:

weed-suppressing fabric, a few years ago, I and some friends took
a LOT of trouble to spread fabric in a rose path -- big hassle, trim,
cut holes, etc. My gardener warned me the weeds would come back
anyway -- and they did, big time, so I had extra work digging up &
removing the fabric and said never again. I understand there are
supposed to be different thicknesses of that stuff, perhaps some more
effective, but have only seen the ordinary in nursery/homeowner places
around here; don't want to order huge quantity on-line for tiny area.

Lawnmower blades, this area is contained within those curved
pink concrete edgers, so pebbles (2-3") will not escape.

Critters, none except a few possums; this is city.

pine bark mulch, oh, how I wish we'd get SOME rain, heavy,
light, or medium! No danger of "washing away", alas, and I fear
weeds would soon find their way through.

vinegar, interesting thought; I've never used it as a weed
suppressant. Any harm to roots of (very large old) Princess Plant?
Quantity required? Dilute or full strength?

****NOBODY has answered about hot water. I use it routinely to
kill weeds between plates of the concrete patio. Seems the
least toxic and still effective. I just don't know if it would harm
PP's roots.

Hope to hear about vinegar & hot water, and thanks to all for
replies.

Persephone.



Both boiling water and vinegar are indiscriminate. Dynamite and long term
wood burning is too, but more effective.
Fabric, any kind, if blocking seed activity below, will accumulate potential
seed above it.
Move the plant somewhere else. Toss some rocks out there. When the weeds
come up, burn em' down with a propane torch.
Dave

On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 00:37:29 GMT, "Dave"
wrote:

Any long term studies by an independent group on cattle, swine, goats,
chickens eating such tainted feed or photosynthetic organism with
glysophate, including their offspring, their grand offspring etc.? If
financed by Monsanto, the results are mute.

MOOT


MOOT - A term used in the inns of court, signifying the exercise of
arguing imaginary cases, which young barristers and students used to
perform at certain times, the better to be enabled by this practice to
defend their clients' cases. A moot question is one which has not been
decided.

So what did you really mean? That they are not valid? Or?

P.

(Sorry...I can't help myself...)

On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 00:31:11 GMT, "Dave"
wrote:

Persephone wrote in message
m...
On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 04:48:57 GMT, "Dave"
wrote:

Persephone wrote in message
news:NYudnS1csrLd6zvbnZ2dnUVZ_vmlnZ2d@adelphia. com...

[...snip ...}
Persephone

I'd just kneel down and pull the weeds myself.

Gets tougher through pebbles. I pulled weeds in that area for years,
so finally thought I'd try the pebbles. I have them on the other side
of the house under the other faucet - several layers - and they seem
to be working pretty well.

Your choice. Consider putting the hose on a hanger.

I've looked at hose-hangers for years. They don't seem practical
when I'm using the hose almost every day. I got one of those
spiral jobbies that is suppose to retract on its own but it didn't
work for me so I returned it.

The ideal solution is a hose cart; I tried locating one there, but
there just isn't room.

Persephone.


Same experience with end gutter rollup hose. Ends up falling off the vinyl
gutter. No matter how tight the clamp. Sure don't need a rain barrel this
year where I'm at, deluge.
Dave

Oh, lawdy, lawd...send me some...even a few drops...!

P.

In article om,
mleblanca wrote:

On Jul 25, 1:02 am, Persephone wrote:


the above sensible suggestions:

weed-suppressing fabric, a few years ago, I and some friends took
a LOT of trouble to spread fabric in a rose path -- big hassle, trim,
cut holes, etc. My gardener warned me the weeds would come back
anyway -- and they did, big time, so I had extra work digging up &
removing the fabric and said never again. I understand there are
supposed to be different thicknesses of that stuff, perhaps some more
effective, but have only seen the ordinary in nursery/homeowner places
around here; don't want to order huge quantity on-line for tiny area.

Perse
The best weed suppressing "fabric" is newsprint. About 20 sheets of
newspaper covered with pebbles or bark will smother weeds and
by the time the paper decomposes they won't come back up.
Of course the paper lasts longer if you can keep the area fairly dry
but even
with water they last a surprosingly long time. Cheaper too.
I have used this method with success even over the dreaded Bermuda
Grass!

Both vinegar and boiling water work, but neither will discrimate
between
plants you want and weeds. Just keep them out of the root zone of
the PP.
Emilie

Tell her about cardboard too, when she comes back down.

FB - FFF (raise a big stink)
--
Billy
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/

On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 00:37:29 GMT, "Dave"
wrote:

snip
Any long term studies by an independent group on cattle, swine, goats,
chickens eating such tainted feed or photosynthetic organism with
glysophate, including their offspring, their grand offspring etc.? If
financed by Monsanto, the results are mute.
Dave

I have a hard time just finding stuff that I know I have
read about before. Most of the studies that seem to have any
merit come from over the pond in European Countries. There
rules are much stricter than here.

We (humans) will probably be the ultimate test in the USA.
Big Ag and Pharmaceuticals have our government
leaders/enforcers in their back pocket...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 16:30:58 -0500, Charlie wrote:

On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 14:25:09 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:


If you buy your food from the grocery store I wouldn't worry
too much about the pittance of Roundup any of us might use.

Point taken, but protest I must. Seems a shame to even give one penny
to the bastids.

I try and buy only food that has a chance of being non-contamintated,
but of course, this a near impossiblilty.

Typical notill farming for corn, soybeans and now they have
Roundup ready wheat seed too. Spray whole field with Roundup
and either plant at the same time or wait a few days. After
your desired crop is on the way up and the weeds are taking
hold spray whole field with Roundup again. The seed/crop has
been genetically engineered so it is virtually immune to
Roundup.

There are hundreds of acres with in easy walking distance
from me that have been douched with Roundup for many years
now.

I'm smack-effing-dab in the middle of the saturate zone, gazillions of
acres in every direction, Rockies to the Apallachians, Texas to Canada
and beyond. Northwestern Missouri.

I've seen/read studies showing that low levels of Glyphosate
(Roundup's active ingredient) can be detected in just about
everything we eat/buy made from corn, soybeans and wheat.

Yep, and I remember DDT as well and the widespread use and misuse of
that poison.

Use it judicially, but I wouldn't lose any sleep over what
we might do with it. Worry about the thousands and thousands
of acres douched with it by agriculture...

I do worry about the widespread use and give the middle finger salute
to Monsanto et al. whenever possible. ;-)

Hi Charlie,

As you probably already know, DDT is still in widespread use
throughout the rest of the World. It did and still does work
really, really well for what it was intended (shrug). It was
way, way overused and abused.

I'm guilty of using Glyphosate. In some places it seems to
be the lesser of evils. I try to avoid it in places that I
plan on eating crops from.

Which do you suppose is more harmful. Spraying a bit of
Glyphosate a few times a summer or running a noisy/smelly
exhaust spewing weed-whacker every week. I hate those
machines (and leave blowers) and only use them when I
absolutely have to. Much rather do the trimming and weeding
all by hand, but a bit of Glyphosate here and there can be a
big help. It is about the only thing that I have found that
can take out Grapevines, Poison Ivy and Autumn Olives short
of a small nuclear device

I guess if we live long enough we will find out eventually
one way or the other just how bad it is.

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 08:58:48 -0500, Lar wrote:

Persephone wrote:



****NOBODY has answered about hot water. I use it routinely to
kill weeds between plates of the concrete patio. Seems the
least toxic and still effective. I just don't know if it would harm
PP's roots.

Hope to hear about vinegar & hot water, and thanks to all for
replies.

Persephone.



Wondering if constant use of vinegar in an area can change the PH of the
soil thus causing growing issues to some plants. Hot water? Well would
guess near boiling is what you need and for your preferred plant it
would depend how much root damage the water could cause to it. If you
feel boiling water is a safer mode of weed control, it can be, but it
is more hazardous...carrying a pot of boiling water from the kitchen out
the door and pour it where you want to pour it. How dangerous could that
be? Had a customer who was talked into using boiling water to kill out
fire ant nests instead of chemicals so he decided to do the right thing
and go that route himself. Had a big pot of water going and when it was
ready snatched it up to head out the door...the problem was his daughter
2-4 years old (forget now exactly how old she was) was wrapped up in a
blanket playing with a new puppy had walked behind him without him
noticing. He took up the water and turned to head out the door and
stepped on the blanket dragging on the floor, slipped and spilled the
water. He was able to push the falling pot away from the kid and what
water that spilt on her was diverted by the blanket, but still had some
burns. He had a hand/wrist doused with the boiling water causing a
severe burn, in which he was still having issues with for over a year
that I know of. The dropped pot landed on the puppy killing it.

Lar

What a terrifying story! Thank heavens disaster was averted --
narrowly!

To apply hot water to weeds in cracks, or wherever in garden:

I fill the electric kettle and plug it into the outside garage outlet
(or if you don't have one, use an extension cord). That way you
are dealing with a smaller quantity of hot water, under control.
Rather refill a few times if treating a larger area, than risk
tragedy per above cautionary tale.

Persephone

In article ,
Leon Fisk wrote:

On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 00:37:29 GMT, "Dave"
wrote:

snip
Any long term studies by an independent group on cattle, swine, goats,
chickens eating such tainted feed or photosynthetic organism with
glysophate, including their offspring, their grand offspring etc.? If
financed by Monsanto, the results are mute.
Dave

I have a hard time just finding stuff that I know I have
read about before. Most of the studies that seem to have any
merit come from over the pond in European Countries. There
rules are much stricter than here.

We (humans) will probably be the ultimate test in the USA.
Big Ag and Pharmaceuticals have our government
leaders/enforcers in their back pocket...

A little bit of this is safe, under laboratory conditions and maybe a
little bit of that is safe under laboratory conditions. But along with
the "Body Burden" of the accumulated industrial, agricultural, and
ubiquitous medicines that accumulate in our bodies, comes potential
synergistic interactions between the one hundred to two hundred
chemicals that nature hasn't prepared us to cope with. These chemicals
and/or their interactions can lead to cancers or birth defects. Miners
die from their injuries, nuclear workers pass them on. You may not just
be damaging yourself but all who descend from you in the future.

FB - FFF
--
Billy
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/

Persephone wrote in message
...



On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 00:37:29 GMT, "Dave"
wrote:

Any long term studies by an independent group on cattle, swine, goats,
chickens eating such tainted feed or photosynthetic organism with
glysophate, including their offspring, their grand offspring etc.? If
financed by Monsanto, the results are mute.

MOOT


MOOT - A term used in the inns of court, signifying the exercise of
arguing imaginary cases, which young barristers and students used to
perform at certain times, the better to be enabled by this practice to
defend their clients' cases. A moot question is one which has not been
decided.

So what did you really mean? That they are not valid? Or?

P.

(Sorry...I can't help myself...)

Sure you could. It okay though. Moot is the word.
Dave