In article ,
Steve wrote:

On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:22:50 -0500, "cat daddy"
wrote:


"Billy Rose" wrote in message
...

It is strange that while technology flourishes and grows, human spirit
seems to be returning to the "Middle Ages" and it's reptilian mind. That
period when Mediterranean culture lost a thousand years of development,
from the fall of Rome in 500 AD to the "Renaissance" in 1500 AD, and
only rediscovered it in Arab translations of the Roman and Greek
originals. Not that the Arabs didn't contribute with what is now our
numbering system, including the concept of zero, the distillation
process, troubadours, and the idea of romantic love, to name a few.
Reminds me of the Bob Zimmerman lyric about Manhattan where buildings go
up to the sky and people go down into the ground.

I'm sure countless civilizations and societies have come and gone, all
the while believing they are the epitome of what has gone before and will
last forever. Yet, they are gone, and we will go, and it will start all over
again. We are capable of much ingenuity, but are still barely out of the
caves as a species.
All I can hope is that in this time period, we won't damage the planet
irreparably so that it can continue.

As a civilization America is but teenaged, and we will on occasion act
the part.
What use in mourning a culture yet to develop into itself?

As to planet damage, when she's had enough of us she will dispose of
us. It is not the planet that has a tenuous grip on existence.

Since someone opened the Dylan door;
"And but for the sky there are no fences facing".

Pollyanna couldn't have said it better. The sky is the fence and we
can't run, and we can't hide from Dr. Strangelove.

The only door that is likely to open is marked "entropy".

FB - FFF
--
Billy
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/

Charlie wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:22:50 -0500, "cat daddy"
wrote:


All I can hope is that in this time period, we won't damage the planet
irreparably so that it can continue.

And what do you think our chances are that we *haven't* damaged our
nest past the point of no return?

I'm not being a wiseass, I am serious. I am in a rather "we're
screwed" state of mind and wonder if I have lost my perspective, and
Hope.

I doesn't look good at all, to me.

Yet we go on because we must. What else can we do?

Sorry for not getting back on this sooner. Other stuff got in the way.
And, I can't begin to do justice to the question you pose.
But, the history of this planet has had such a mindblowing diversity of
life, existing and going extinct for vast ages beyond our comprehension.
Humans are just a blip. I have no doubt the planet and many more wondrous
lifeforms will exist until the Sun goes nova.
It's a shame, with our alleged intellect, that we can't seem to recognize
and avoid the petty pitfalls that may not see our species through to the
end.

But, one thing happened recently that gave me hope, both for us and the
species we share this rock with. I was dismayed, as many others, at the
decline of the bees. I had only *three* bees this Spring hanging around the
oxalis blossoms. I had direct evidence that something really bad was going
on.
But last week, I went out back and the coralvines were blooming, and they
were covered in hundreds of bees. Every day since, I've gone out there just
to watch them and hope that they have recovered and overcome whatever it was
that happened to them.
I read that one reason that Monsanto et. al. doesn't want farmers saving
seeds (beyond the obvious profit threat) is that the GMO mods don't last in
succeeding generations. Nature tends to slough off our meddling. That makes
me feel good.
Nature may, in fact, slough off humans sooner rather than later. It's
probably what we deserve. But, as long as the bees make it, I'm alright with
that......

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 23:08:40 -0500, "cat daddy"
wrote:


Charlie wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:22:50 -0500, "cat daddy"
wrote:


All I can hope is that in this time period, we won't damage the planet
irreparably so that it can continue.

And what do you think our chances are that we *haven't* damaged our
nest past the point of no return?

I'm not being a wiseass, I am serious. I am in a rather "we're
screwed" state of mind and wonder if I have lost my perspective, and
Hope.

I doesn't look good at all, to me.

Yet we go on because we must. What else can we do?

Sorry for not getting back on this sooner. Other stuff got in the way.
And, I can't begin to do justice to the question you pose.
But, the history of this planet has had such a mindblowing diversity of
life, existing and going extinct for vast ages beyond our comprehension.
Humans are just a blip. I have no doubt the planet and many more wondrous
lifeforms will exist until the Sun goes nova.
It's a shame, with our alleged intellect, that we can't seem to recognize
and avoid the petty pitfalls that may not see our species through to the
end.

But, one thing happened recently that gave me hope, both for us and the
species we share this rock with. I was dismayed, as many others, at the
decline of the bees. I had only *three* bees this Spring hanging around the
oxalis blossoms. I had direct evidence that something really bad was going
on.
But last week, I went out back and the coralvines were blooming, and they
were covered in hundreds of bees. Every day since, I've gone out there just
to watch them and hope that they have recovered and overcome whatever it was
that happened to them.
I read that one reason that Monsanto et. al. doesn't want farmers saving
seeds (beyond the obvious profit threat) is that the GMO mods don't last in
succeeding generations. Nature tends to slough off our meddling. That makes
me feel good.
Nature may, in fact, slough off humans sooner rather than later. It's
probably what we deserve. But, as long as the bees make it, I'm alright with
that......


I wish I could share in your hope, for us anyway, but I fear that hope
has been extinguished and replaced with fear of the fate that likely
will befall my children and grandchildren. Yet facing this fear, I am
coming to acceptance and acting upon it, taking actions that will
mitigate some of the dire consequences that I fear. Perhaps it will
suffice to provide some measure of safety and comfort for those who
follow me.

The fittest will survive. And by fittest, I mean the greediest and
meanest of our species, those that you already see in power and
accumulating "wealth" at whatever cost, even now to the blatant and
obvious stealing from the poorest among us in this world.

We've had it. The Earth cannot support this continual desire for
people to advance, consume, procreate, accumulate, masturbate, etc.

Endgame, my friend.

The changes have begun. And sadly, *most* Usians (I speak from that
perspective, and am saddened that this country has been the leading
purveyor of misery and greed) are unaware of how close is the edge of
the cliff to which we are blindly racing.

Those in power *know* these things to be true. Climate change, and the
ensuing famine and other natural disasters will not be avoided. We
cannot grow enough corn to fuel our desire for transport. Not and feed
ourselves as well. But we can grow enough corn if the world were
minus, say, several billion people. The *fittest* among us are simply
allowing the poorest of us to die-off, it's happening now. Look at the
situations in Africa. Quite a few resources there, eh? Soon as the
AIDS "problem" runs it's course, should be easier pickin's.

DU should take care of most of the MidEast within a generation or two,
and should take care of the costly problem of all those wounded
children returning from war, many minus their parts and their sanity.

As things worsen, we will become the poorest and our turn shall be upon
us.

Oil may diminish soon enough to prevent complete global catastropic
warming, but it makes little difference, for the end result will be the
same. The deaths of billions and a new beginning. Those that survive
may find themselves in worse straits than they can imagine. The
fittest may need workers, and those who are hungry will sell their
birthright for a bowl of pottage.

No, I have little hope left for mankind, yet maybe the bees will
survive and Gaia will be able to remake herself yet again. Perhaps
some of the kinder of us may make it as well, and contribute to a new
beginning based upon principles other than what are being espoused by
the vocal majority, which is, in truth, the minority.

But you know, it is kinda cool to witness this amazing, amazing thing,
that such weak stupid creatures, humans, have been able to totally
trash and destroy our home in such a short period of time and not even
realize that we are the cause our own undoing.

Remarkable.

Peace and care, Brother,

Charlie

Heaven brings forth individuals in it's own way. Chinese Philo...

Very easy to write but it sort of explains how I got here now whatever
wherever that is. Not trying to be cute.

Bill whose belief system sort of helps dealing with change. That may
change too depending on circumstance.

The way things are.

Come back to line one as a personal refuge.

PS Find your own way or be enslaved by someone else. Courtesy William
Blake.

Meanwhile our garden is OK and gives great joy.

--

S Jersey USA Zone 5 Shade
http://www.ocutech.com/ High tech Vison aid
This article is posted under fair use rules in accordance with
Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, and is strictly for the educational
and informative purposes. This material is distributed without profit.

In article , Charlie wrote:

"The earth is not dying. It is being killed, and those killing it
have names and addresses." - Utah Phillips

Ah, quotin' ol' Uter. Must have seen the starlight on the rails. Well,
shit, in five billion years, it will all be over anyway. Kind of
embarrassing that we only lasted a measly million years. Dinosaurs did
it for hundreds of millions of years. Dey de man. Maybe when the next
species gifted(?) with conceptual thought and abstract reasoning finds a
fossilized tool, things will happen quicker and better. Avarice and
stupidity = Bush. The whacked out religious right is bringing the
raptures and Jamestown to your block, enjoy. Enjoy each day as if it
were your last. Carp diem. If you get a chance to throw your shoes into
the machinery, go for it. You'll find me in my garden.
--
FB - FFF

Billy
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 19:09:49 -0400, William Wagner
wrote:


Heaven brings forth individuals in it's own way. Chinese Philo...

Very easy to write but it sort of explains how I got here now whatever
wherever that is. Not trying to be cute.

Bill whose belief system sort of helps dealing with change. That may
change too depending on circumstance.

The way things are.

Come back to line one as a personal refuge.

PS Find your own way or be enslaved by someone else. Courtesy William
Blake.

Meanwhile our garden is OK and gives great joy.

Thank you Bill. These words had an effect upon me that I can't quite
explain. I *felt* them and they "caused" something. Something I
haven't felt for a long time.

Been in my head for several hours now. There is peace and acceptance
in those words, and a relinquishing of control? A sense that all is as
it should be?

I don't understand, yet I feel them to be true.

Your whole post centered me or something.

The sun has just set and the magical hour is upon us. Back to the
garden I now go. I feel ok about things at the moment.

Charlie....seeking to find my own way

On a more serious note and I do watch Yahoo Serious.

http://www.csmngt.com/laughter_the_best_medicine.htm

Bill

--

S Jersey USA Zone 5 Shade
http://www.ocutech.com/ High tech Vison aid
This article is posted under fair use rules in accordance with
Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, and is strictly for the educational
and informative purposes. This material is distributed without profit.