My dwarf pie cherry tree has died, perhaps from old age. At least I
found no patent signs of injury or disease. We removed it and dug out
the stump (no easy task on an older tree).

I want to put in a replacement, but not a dwarf. The place we had the
old one is ideal. Is there some reason I wouldn't put the replacement
there next spring, or something I should do to prepare the site?

These are good questions. Most likely if you dug the stump out. There may
be some woody roots that are left without and energy source. They will be
predisposed to rot decay fungi. As long as the tree is healthy, you are
planting, you plant correctly, mulch correctly, I would wait until the
second growing season before any stem pruning or fertilization,you should be
OK. I guess some organic fertilizer would be fine. Do root prune at
planting time to remove torn woody roots. With a sharp tool and straight
across like the end of a straw. Look up "root pruning" at pruning link
below. Other than that -

Many tree problems are associated with the following: They are Case
Sensitive.

Troubles in the Rhizosphere
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/RHIZO.html

Unhealthy Trees from the Nursery / Improper Planting
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman/sub1.html
and
Look up "Tree Planting" http://www.treedictionary.com

Improper Mulching - http://home.ccil.org/~treeman/sub3.html
and
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/M/ Look up "Mulch"

Improper Pruning
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/tree_pruning

Improper Fertilization (See A Touch of Chemistry)
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/CHEM.html

Tree Farming and Related Problems
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/SOUND/

Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.

"Not@home" wrote in message
...
My dwarf pie cherry tree has died, perhaps from old age. At least I found
no patent signs of injury or disease. We removed it and dug out the stump
(no easy task on an older tree).

I want to put in a replacement, but not a dwarf. The place we had the old
one is ideal. Is there some reason I wouldn't put the replacement there
next spring, or something I should do to prepare the site?

"Not@home" wrote in message
...
My dwarf pie cherry tree has died, perhaps from old age. At least I
found no patent signs of injury or disease. We removed it and dug out
the stump (no easy task on an older tree).

I want to put in a replacement, but not a dwarf. The place we had the
old one is ideal. Is there some reason I wouldn't put the replacement
there next spring, or something I should do to prepare the site?

I'd plant close but no exactly where the old one was. Remember it died.
I'd hate to see you lose another.
Betsy

Not@home wrote:
My dwarf pie cherry tree has died, perhaps from old age. At least I
found no patent signs of injury or disease. We removed it and dug out
the stump (no easy task on an older tree).

I lost two about a year apart, dwarf North Star. I wasn't going to
replace them but missed them too much, waited about 3 years. If a virus
killed them (they were about 30 years old), I was afraid to put new
trees near there, but not much sunny, open space in my smallish yard.

Somebody came around, and I paid to have the stumps dug out, but there
are still remains underneath that need to decay.


I want to put in a replacement, but not a dwarf. The place we had the
old one is ideal. Is there some reason I wouldn't put the replacement
there next spring, or something I should do to prepare the site?

I wouldn't want anything but a dwarf. They are good producers, at least
mine were, every year, more than I needed, didn't do a thing to them
ever except plant well, water and mulch the first year. I bought two NS
at Home Depot early this spring and planted them a few feet away from
where the others had been, would have gone further if I had had more
space to work with. Then the deep freeze killed all the buds, one was dead.

So I didn't want to lose a year, they had a warranty, so first made sure
they had something left, dug up and returned the NS and came home with 2
Montmorency. I should have taken more care about the shape of them, but
not much to choose from that were close to the same and looked nice.
Then some bugs or some critter, possibly deer but never saw any in the
yard, ate a bunch of leaves off the one, never had any problem like that
with the NS's that I can remember.

So maybe next spring, I'll dig them out while they are still under
warranty unless they bud out too nicely and go back to NS and probably
bite the bullet and get some nicer ones from a nursery. I saw some huge
NS's at Lowe's, but they were larger than I would have wanted to tackle.

Good luck. You don't need a pair for cross pollination I guess, but I
liked having two.

sherwindu wrote:

I go along with your feelings on dwarf trees. I don't know why anyone would
prefer a full size tree, especially on a small lot. I had a North Star, which
was
supposed to be a dwarf, but grew to great size and took up a lot of space.

Maybe it was a freak or got mislabelled somewhere in the process. Maybe
some do get large like those young 'uns I saw at Lowe's.

Seems mine grew to no more than 7' tall and 5' wide and stayed like that
for many years.

I
might
have kept it, but it never produced more than a handful of cherries every year,
so
I pulled it out.

I'd want rid of it, too, but I do hate killing trees :-).

Having two North Stars instead of one should help with the
pollination and result in more fruit, even though that tree is self fertile. I
still have my Montmorency, which has consistently produced fruit for the last 15
years.

They told me at the nursery where I bought the NS's that it required two
to cross pollinate. Now I've read that is not true. Anyway, your
satisfaction with the Montmorency is encouraging, and I hope mine will
do well.

I so wish I had room for a couple dwarf apricot trees. I have what I
thought was supposed to be a dwarf Moorpark, and late frosts almost
always kill the fruit, once they got wormy, and about 3 years ago loaded
with gorgeous apricots (somebody stole all the low ones I was watching
until they were just right to pick). It looks like a standard to me.
It's a crooked old thing now (because it had to stretch out to get to
the sun), I think I will give it one more year. I read Sungold or
Moongold are more hardy, but I could only have one.

Haven't seen any around for a long time, but when I first moved here,
two neighbors had some standards that bore tons of smaller fruit without
fail every year, messy, but delicious.

Nobody bothers much with fruit trees any more. Why don't more people
want fruit trees? New luxury homes have sprung up all around, but they
seem to want yards that are professionally landscaped. They all look
kind of blah to me, same old, same old. Some of it is practical. Low
maintenance. Reliable in our climate.

Hettie® wrote:

Not@home wrote:
My dwarf pie cherry tree has died, perhaps from old age. At least I
found no patent signs of injury or disease. We removed it and dug out
the stump (no easy task on an older tree).

I lost two about a year apart, dwarf North Star. I wasn't going to
replace them but missed them too much, waited about 3 years. If a virus
killed them (they were about 30 years old), I was afraid to put new
trees near there, but not much sunny, open space in my smallish yard.

Somebody came around, and I paid to have the stumps dug out, but there
are still remains underneath that need to decay.


I want to put in a replacement, but not a dwarf. The place we had the
old one is ideal. Is there some reason I wouldn't put the replacement
there next spring, or something I should do to prepare the site?

I wouldn't want anything but a dwarf. They are good producers, at least
mine were, every year, more than I needed, didn't do a thing to them
ever except plant well, water and mulch the first year. I bought two NS
at Home Depot early this spring and planted them a few feet away from
where the others had been, would have gone further if I had had more
space to work with. Then the deep freeze killed all the buds, one was dead.

So I didn't want to lose a year, they had a warranty, so first made sure
they had something left, dug up and returned the NS and came home with 2
Montmorency. I should have taken more care about the shape of them, but
not much to choose from that were close to the same and looked nice.
Then some bugs or some critter, possibly deer but never saw any in the
yard, ate a bunch of leaves off the one, never had any problem like that
with the NS's that I can remember.

So maybe next spring, I'll dig them out while they are still under
warranty unless they bud out too nicely and go back to NS and probably
bite the bullet and get some nicer ones from a nursery. I saw some huge
NS's at Lowe's, but they were larger than I would have wanted to tackle.

Good luck. You don't need a pair for cross pollination I guess, but I
liked having two.

I go along with your feelings on dwarf trees. I don't know why anyone would
prefer a full size tree, especially on a small lot. I had a North Star, which
was
supposed to be a dwarf, but grew to great size and took up a lot of space. I
might
have kept it, but it never produced more than a handful of cherries every year,
so
I pulled it out. Having two North Stars instead of one should help with the
pollination and result in more fruit, even though that tree is self fertile. I
still have my Montmorency, which has consistently produced fruit for the last 15
years.

Sherwin

Hettie® wrote:


Not@home wrote:
My dwarf pie cherry tree has died, perhaps from old age. At least I
found no patent signs of injury or disease. We removed it and dug out
the stump (no easy task on an older tree).

I lost two about a year apart, dwarf North Star. I wasn't going to
replace them but missed them too much, waited about 3 years. If a virus
killed them (they were about 30 years old), I was afraid to put new
trees near there, but not much sunny, open space in my smallish yard.

Somebody came around, and I paid to have the stumps dug out, but there
are still remains underneath that need to decay.

I have Montmorency's, as I think they make the best pies, and I don't
have room in the front yard for two trees.

I too have a very small yard, so the place where the old one died is
about the only place to put a new one without removing something else.
Our dwarf Montmorency in the back yard was not affected, which inclines
me to think the cause of death was not a virus.

I'm looking at the non dwarf variety, as they say it will be 15 to 20
feet tall, which will nicely shade the porch, and let the birds eat the
fruit at the top, while we enjoy the lower fruit. I have a non-dwarf
Stella in the back, which has done quite well, although it had mold on
the fruit a couple of years ago, which I attribute to inadequate
pruning. My good luck with the non-dwarf Stella is inclining me to try
a non-dwarf Montmorency.


I want to put in a replacement, but not a dwarf. The place we had the
old one is ideal. Is there some reason I wouldn't put the replacement
there next spring, or something I should do to prepare the site?

I wouldn't want anything but a dwarf. They are good producers, at least
mine were, every year, more than I needed, didn't do a thing to them
ever except plant well, water and mulch the first year. I bought two NS
at Home Depot early this spring and planted them a few feet away from
where the others had been, would have gone further if I had had more
space to work with. Then the deep freeze killed all the buds, one was
dead.

So I didn't want to lose a year, they had a warranty, so first made sure
they had something left, dug up and returned the NS and came home with 2
Montmorency. I should have taken more care about the shape of them, but
not much to choose from that were close to the same and looked nice.
Then some bugs or some critter, possibly deer but never saw any in the
yard, ate a bunch of leaves off the one, never had any problem like that
with the NS's that I can remember.

So maybe next spring, I'll dig them out while they are still under
warranty unless they bud out too nicely and go back to NS and probably
bite the bullet and get some nicer ones from a nursery. I saw some huge
NS's at Lowe's, but they were larger than I would have wanted to tackle.

Good luck. You don't need a pair for cross pollination I guess, but I
liked having two.

Not@home wrote:


I have Montmorency's, as I think they make the best pies, and I don't
have room in the front yard for two trees.

I have heard that, too, so hope mine will be ok. When I made pies with
the NS's, I diluted the juice with water a little because they have high
acid, and everybody loved them. They freeze well and easily and keep
longer than most people keep frozen stuff.


I too have a very small yard, so the place where the old one died is
about the only place to put a new one without removing something else.
Our dwarf Montmorency in the back yard was not affected, which inclines
me to think the cause of death was not a virus.

I would think mine was due to one having been damaged by a teen going
rambunctious, then getting scraped with the mower (it had a bole-like
scar growth at the ground level). But when the other went that wasn't
like it, it was either a virus or they had just reached the end of their
life cycle.


I'm looking at the non dwarf variety, as they say it will be 15 to 20
feet tall, which will nicely shade the porch, and let the birds eat the
fruit at the top, while we enjoy the lower fruit. I have a non-dwarf
Stella in the back, which has done quite well, although it had mold on
the fruit a couple of years ago, which I attribute to inadequate
pruning. My good luck with the non-dwarf Stella is inclining me to try
a non-dwarf Montmorency.

Now that you explain your needs and desires, if that is what you want,
it should be fine. The shade factor is important, much as I love my
trees, I am paying for not having enough sunny spots for my flowers.
One must choose. I didn't think of some of that when I planted many
years ago. So you deal with what is.

Go with the standard and be happy with it. It will look pretty at
blossoming and fruiting time. Bet you wish you had more room, too, but
again we have to deal with what is or get a bigger place which is not a
good option for many of us.

And you may get occasional people asking if they can have some like I
did :-). I had plenty to share because I really didn't NEED that many,
just enjoy watching them do their thing and a few pies to look forward to.




I want to put in a replacement, but not a dwarf. The place we had
the old one is ideal. Is there some reason I wouldn't put the
replacement there next spring, or something I should do to prepare
the site?


I wouldn't want anything but a dwarf. They are good producers, at
least mine were, every year, more than I needed, didn't do a thing to
them ever except plant well, water and mulch the first year. I bought
two NS at Home Depot early this spring and planted them a few feet
away from where the others had been, would have gone further if I had
had more space to work with. Then the deep freeze killed all the
buds, one was dead.

So I didn't want to lose a year, they had a warranty, so first made
sure they had something left, dug up and returned the NS and came home
with 2 Montmorency. I should have taken more care about the shape of
them, but not much to choose from that were close to the same and
looked nice. Then some bugs or some critter, possibly deer but never
saw any in the yard, ate a bunch of leaves off the one, never had any
problem like that with the NS's that I can remember.

So maybe next spring, I'll dig them out while they are still under
warranty unless they bud out too nicely and go back to NS and probably
bite the bullet and get some nicer ones from a nursery. I saw some
huge NS's at Lowe's, but they were larger than I would have wanted to
tackle.

Good luck. You don't need a pair for cross pollination I guess, but I
liked having two.

This is an example of an intelligent thread. Everybody had something
important to say and everybody said it well.

"Hettie®" wrote in message
...


Not@home wrote:


I have Montmorency's, as I think they make the best pies, and I don't
have room in the front yard for two trees.

I have heard that, too, so hope mine will be ok. When I made pies with
the NS's, I diluted the juice with water a little because they have high
acid, and everybody loved them. They freeze well and easily and keep
longer than most people keep frozen stuff.


I too have a very small yard, so the place where the old one died is
about the only place to put a new one without removing something else.
Our dwarf Montmorency in the back yard was not affected, which inclines
me to think the cause of death was not a virus.

I would think mine was due to one having been damaged by a teen going
rambunctious, then getting scraped with the mower (it had a bole-like scar
growth at the ground level). But when the other went that wasn't like it,
it was either a virus or they had just reached the end of their life
cycle.


I'm looking at the non dwarf variety, as they say it will be 15 to 20
feet tall, which will nicely shade the porch, and let the birds eat the
fruit at the top, while we enjoy the lower fruit. I have a non-dwarf
Stella in the back, which has done quite well, although it had mold on
the fruit a couple of years ago, which I attribute to inadequate pruning.
My good luck with the non-dwarf Stella is inclining me to try a non-dwarf
Montmorency.

Now that you explain your needs and desires, if that is what you want, it
should be fine. The shade factor is important, much as I love my trees, I
am paying for not having enough sunny spots for my flowers. One must
choose. I didn't think of some of that when I planted many years ago. So
you deal with what is.

Go with the standard and be happy with it. It will look pretty at
blossoming and fruiting time. Bet you wish you had more room, too, but
again we have to deal with what is or get a bigger place which is not a
good option for many of us.

And you may get occasional people asking if they can have some like I did
:-). I had plenty to share because I really didn't NEED that many, just
enjoy watching them do their thing and a few pies to look forward to.




I want to put in a replacement, but not a dwarf. The place we had the
old one is ideal. Is there some reason I wouldn't put the replacement
there next spring, or something I should do to prepare the site?


I wouldn't want anything but a dwarf. They are good producers, at least
mine were, every year, more than I needed, didn't do a thing to them
ever except plant well, water and mulch the first year. I bought two NS
at Home Depot early this spring and planted them a few feet away from
where the others had been, would have gone further if I had had more
space to work with. Then the deep freeze killed all the buds, one was
dead.

So I didn't want to lose a year, they had a warranty, so first made sure
they had something left, dug up and returned the NS and came home with 2
Montmorency. I should have taken more care about the shape of them, but
not much to choose from that were close to the same and looked nice.
Then some bugs or some critter, possibly deer but never saw any in the
yard, ate a bunch of leaves off the one, never had any problem like that
with the NS's that I can remember.

So maybe next spring, I'll dig them out while they are still under
warranty unless they bud out too nicely and go back to NS and probably
bite the bullet and get some nicer ones from a nursery. I saw some huge
NS's at Lowe's, but they were larger than I would have wanted to tackle.

Good luck. You don't need a pair for cross pollination I guess, but I
liked having two.

It may have been intelligent from content, but I don't understand how 9 replies
to the original poster can wind up with only 4 references in your email. Maybe

it's some kind of complicated branching issue?

Sherwin

symplastless wrote:

This is an example of an intelligent thread. Everybody had something
important to say and everybody said it well.

"Hettie®" wrote in message
...


Not@home wrote:


I have Montmorency's, as I think they make the best pies, and I don't
have room in the front yard for two trees.

I have heard that, too, so hope mine will be ok. When I made pies with
the NS's, I diluted the juice with water a little because they have high
acid, and everybody loved them. They freeze well and easily and keep
longer than most people keep frozen stuff.


I too have a very small yard, so the place where the old one died is
about the only place to put a new one without removing something else.
Our dwarf Montmorency in the back yard was not affected, which inclines
me to think the cause of death was not a virus.

I would think mine was due to one having been damaged by a teen going
rambunctious, then getting scraped with the mower (it had a bole-like scar
growth at the ground level). But when the other went that wasn't like it,
it was either a virus or they had just reached the end of their life
cycle.


I'm looking at the non dwarf variety, as they say it will be 15 to 20
feet tall, which will nicely shade the porch, and let the birds eat the
fruit at the top, while we enjoy the lower fruit. I have a non-dwarf
Stella in the back, which has done quite well, although it had mold on
the fruit a couple of years ago, which I attribute to inadequate pruning.
My good luck with the non-dwarf Stella is inclining me to try a non-dwarf
Montmorency.

Now that you explain your needs and desires, if that is what you want, it
should be fine. The shade factor is important, much as I love my trees, I
am paying for not having enough sunny spots for my flowers. One must
choose. I didn't think of some of that when I planted many years ago. So
you deal with what is.

Go with the standard and be happy with it. It will look pretty at
blossoming and fruiting time. Bet you wish you had more room, too, but
again we have to deal with what is or get a bigger place which is not a
good option for many of us.

And you may get occasional people asking if they can have some like I did
:-). I had plenty to share because I really didn't NEED that many, just
enjoy watching them do their thing and a few pies to look forward to.




I want to put in a replacement, but not a dwarf. The place we had the
old one is ideal. Is there some reason I wouldn't put the replacement
there next spring, or something I should do to prepare the site?


I wouldn't want anything but a dwarf. They are good producers, at least
mine were, every year, more than I needed, didn't do a thing to them
ever except plant well, water and mulch the first year. I bought two NS
at Home Depot early this spring and planted them a few feet away from
where the others had been, would have gone further if I had had more
space to work with. Then the deep freeze killed all the buds, one was
dead.

So I didn't want to lose a year, they had a warranty, so first made sure
they had something left, dug up and returned the NS and came home with 2
Montmorency. I should have taken more care about the shape of them, but
not much to choose from that were close to the same and looked nice.
Then some bugs or some critter, possibly deer but never saw any in the
yard, ate a bunch of leaves off the one, never had any problem like that
with the NS's that I can remember.

So maybe next spring, I'll dig them out while they are still under
warranty unless they bud out too nicely and go back to NS and probably
bite the bullet and get some nicer ones from a nursery. I saw some huge
NS's at Lowe's, but they were larger than I would have wanted to tackle.

Good luck. You don't need a pair for cross pollination I guess, but I
liked having two.

"Then the deep freeze killed all the buds, one was
dead."

How do buds freeze? I thought they super-cooled.
Ref:
Milon F. George; Michael J. Burke Cold Hardiness and Deep Supercooling in
Xylem of Shagbark Hickory Plant Physiol. (1977) 59, 319-325

Something I do not understand is how Xylem super-cools. The xylem is what
the cambium zone produces to the inside. However, by the time fall and
winter comes, the xylem has differentiated and becomes sapwood not xylem.
Kind of confusing.
--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.

symplastless wrote:
"Then the deep freeze killed all the buds, one was
dead."

How do buds freeze? I thought they super-cooled.

I don't know. Maybe it was a poor choice of words. When I bought the
trees late one evening and planted them the very next day, the buds were
swollen and green but not leafed out except but a few. I planted,
watered and mulched well, and all the buds turned brown one the one
tree, and it looked dead but for two green buds. The other one suffered
quite a bit of similar damage but not as bad, still leafed out quite a
bit after planting and through that cold spell. I tried to put garbage
bags over the trees and take them off in the morning when the temps rose
enough again so that late bad frost that dipped into the teens wouldn't
kill my newly-planted trees even though I knew established trees could
have handled it.

I wanted two to match, like not one NS and one Montmorency. By that
time all HD had left was Montmorency, and I felt darn lucky to have
found the NS ones at a good price. They were $25 apiece. I was lucky
HD honored the warranty because technically the one tree wasn't that
bad, but they didn't give me a hassle about it when I returned them both.

It was a struggle for me to plant them in the first place, I didn't
think I could do that kind of hard work any more, had to dig through and
remove sod which I used to patch a couple bad spots in the lawn, and
make two really deep, wide holes, pile up all the dirt on plastic. Then
to have to dig them up again in order to take them back and plant new
ones didn't make me too happy, but I was so determined I wanted cherry
trees again, so I did it. I was exhausted frankly, but hard work has
given me back a little more stamina, not as much as I'd like :-(

Over 30 years ago when I planted my first NS, I went through a regular
nursery, and they wanted $50 for two. It is possible my memory is bad
and they wanted $40. Anyway, I got them to give me a break on the
price, and they subtracted $10, and those trees were marvelous for
years. Needless to say, I was very sad to lose them and cut them down,
had help with that because I wasn't feeling well at the time.



Ref:
Milon F. George; Michael J. Burke Cold Hardiness and Deep Supercooling in
Xylem of Shagbark Hickory Plant Physiol. (1977) 59, 319-325

Something I do not understand is how Xylem super-cools. The xylem is what
the cambium zone produces to the inside. However, by the time fall and
winter comes, the xylem has differentiated and becomes sapwood not xylem.
Kind of confusing.