"Penelope Periwinkle" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 20:31:34 -0500, "Marie Dodge"
wrote:

"Penelope Periwinkle" wrote:

Hi-Yield Copperas

I think you would have to go to a nursery, not a big box store to get
it. I got it for years from a local organic nursery; but when they
retired, I was still able to get it from a more traditional nursery. I
would just call a few nurseries or plant stores near where you live
and ask if they carry it.

Will do but organic gardening isn't all that popular where I live. When I
tried to get all organic fertilizers I went into sticker shock. The cost
of
blood meal and bone meal are astronomical! You'd think it was gold meal.
People with small gardens can probably afford such prices, those of us
with
larger gardens would have to sell our firstborn sons.


I understand. There doesn't seem to be much sympathy for people on a
budget or people who don't have easy access to organic products; but I
understand where you're coming from.

It's truly shocking what the cost of organic farming/gardening has come to.
= O


Since my fav organic nursery closed two years ago, it's been difficult
to get organic products, and no one place seems to carry more than one
or two, so I end up driving all over the place.

I haven't seen anything here but fish emulsion and can't afford almost $10
for a little bottle of the stuff. It wouldn't be enough for one tomato plant
for the season. I really overspent on insecticides, both organic and
chemical this year due to the WF and spidermites.


Ad not all the big box stores like Lowe's and Home Depot carry all the
same items, so if they don't appear to have a market for organic
products in an area, that store won't carry them. Both the Lowe's and
the Home Depot nearest me don't carry much in the way of organic
products. I have to go to a Home Depot almost 25 miles away to get to
one that does, and even then, the choices are limited. It hard work to
stay organic around here!

That is a trip with the high cost of gas no less.



I really miss my organic nursery, they were always willing to try and
get products that I'd read about on the web, or help me find a
suitable alternative. The biggest problem is finding potting soil
without any fertilizer in it, but that's a whine for another post.

I've learned to make my own potting soil. It's much cheaper than buying
it.
Us retired people have to watch what we spend.

I used to make all my own, but I'm not retired, so free time is the
limiting factor for me.

I have more time and less money. :-)



Penelope
--
"Maybe you'd like to ask the Wizard for a heart."
"ElissaAnn"

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:47:44 -0500, Marie Dodge wrote:

I understand. There doesn't seem to be much sympathy for people on a
budget or people who don't have easy access to organic products; but I
understand where you're coming from.

It's truly shocking what the cost of organic farming/gardening has come
to. = O

No as expensive as putting unsafe chemicals on your crops.

"jellybean stonerfish" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:47:44 -0500, Marie Dodge wrote:

I understand. There doesn't seem to be much sympathy for people on a
budget or people who don't have easy access to organic products; but I
understand where you're coming from.

It's truly shocking what the cost of organic farming/gardening has come
to. = O

No as expensive as putting unsafe chemicals on your crops.

Organic fertilizers do not keep insect infestations from occurring.

Marie Dodge wrote:

"jellybean stonerfish" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:47:44 -0500, Marie Dodge wrote:

I understand. There doesn't seem to be much sympathy for people on a
budget or people who don't have easy access to organic products; but I
understand where you're coming from.

It's truly shocking what the cost of organic farming/gardening has come
to. = O

No as expensive as putting unsafe chemicals on your crops.

Organic fertilizers do not keep insect infestations from occurring.



The theory is that lack of organic nutrients stresses the plants, and
insect pests are attracted to stressed-out plants. The latter part
seems to be true. The first part is a little iffy but it's not totally
false either.

Bob

"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...

Marie Dodge wrote:

"jellybean stonerfish" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:47:44 -0500, Marie Dodge wrote:

I understand. There doesn't seem to be much sympathy for people on a
budget or people who don't have easy access to organic products; but I
understand where you're coming from.

It's truly shocking what the cost of organic farming/gardening has come
to. = O

No as expensive as putting unsafe chemicals on your crops.

Organic fertilizers do not keep insect infestations from occurring.



The theory is that lack of organic nutrients stresses the plants, and
insect pests are attracted to stressed-out plants.

That's all it is - a theory. I've been gardening since 1958 and have seen
insects attracted to the healthiest plants you can imagine. Pests are
opportunists. If they're in the area they will attack plants be they healthy
or unhealthy.

The latter part
seems to be true. The first part is a little iffy but it's not totally
false either.

And it's not totally true either. My gardens are loaded with organic
matter, yet this year the insects in one garden are totally uncontrollable.
I should have used a good chemical spray as soon as I saw the first insects
and spiders in stead of wasting several weeks with organic oils and powders
that did nothing. All they did was give the pests a good head start, to the
point the garden was a total loss by the time the ag agent recommended a
good chemical spray. More organic matter will be added this fall and for no
other reason than to help our heavy clay soil support veggies.


Bob

In article , "Marie Dodge"
wrote:.

And it's not totally true either. My gardens are loaded with organic
matter, yet this year the insects in one garden are totally uncontrollable.
I should have used a good chemical spray as soon as I saw the first insects
and spiders in stead of wasting several weeks with organic oils and powders
that did nothing. All they did was give the pests a good head start, to the
point the garden was a total loss by the time the ag agent recommended a
good chemical spray. More organic matter will be added this fall and for no
other reason than to help our heavy clay soil support veggies.

Sounds like you've never gotten past the idea that you have to dose the
garden with SOMETHING chemical and are dissatisfied with "organic oils and
powders" as an option. Organic gardening is not about store products, one
ailse for the greenies, three ailses for the people who don't care how
much damage they do to the environment. All aisles are equally about
tricking people into unnecessary purchases.

Organic home gardening is about balance. A butterfly garden intentionally
includes plants butterfly larvae will eat, and the adult butterflies will
get nectar and lay eggs. No one says "oh god the butterflies are eating my
garden, I have to kill all the butterflies!" though their larvae certainly
are eating there. It's about BALANCE so no one insect becomes so numerous
a garden is injured. You've obviously been using toxic chemicals so long
that you would have to learn patience as well as good gardening practices
to begin to restore a baolance.

You've killed foremost the BENEFICIAL insects so OF COURSE harmful ones
rush back into their ecological niches and to their favorite plants with
no natural predators remaining. The predator insects EVENTUALLY return if
you stop killing poisoning their, and your, environment.

A healthy balanced garden does not need chemical fixes. A healthy garden
will never arise from putting toxic chemicals into it. Every time you
dewscribe another problem that "forces" you to use poisons, you're
describing the result of bad gardening practices which can indeed result
in an endless "battle" with "weapons" in the war zone you've established.
My gardens are places of peace and rarely any upsets. I require no
pesticides whether marketed in the organic aisle or the harmful-gardeners
aisle. You could turn your war zone into a peaceful garden if you'd
restore an organic balance and stop re-toxifying the place every time you
get the negative results virtually all toxifiers get.

-paghat the ratgirl
--
visit my temperate gardening website:
http://www.paghat.com
visit my film reviews website:
http://www.weirdwildrealm.com

"paghat" wrote in message
...
In article , "Marie Dodge"
wrote:.

And it's not totally true either. My gardens are loaded with organic
matter, yet this year the insects in one garden are totally
uncontrollable.
I should have used a good chemical spray as soon as I saw the first
insects
and spiders in stead of wasting several weeks with organic oils and
powders
that did nothing. All they did was give the pests a good head start, to
the
point the garden was a total loss by the time the ag agent recommended a
good chemical spray. More organic matter will be added this fall and for
no
other reason than to help our heavy clay soil support veggies.

Sounds like you've never gotten past the idea that you have to dose the
garden with SOMETHING chemical and are dissatisfied with "organic oils and
powders" as an option.

How are they an option when they are useless? Why use them at all when
plain water would do the same thing? Sounds like you can't get past the idea
that they didn't work. If they worked the insects wouldn't have gotten out
of hand now would they?

Organic gardening is not about store products, one
ailse for the greenies, three ailses for the people who don't care how
much damage they do to the environment. All aisles are equally about
tricking people into unnecessary purchases.

And this has what to do with Ironite and the studies I can't find online
showing evidence it's harming people?

Organic home gardening is about balance. A butterfly garden intentionally
includes plants butterfly larvae will eat, and the adult butterflies will
get nectar and lay eggs. No one says "oh god the butterflies are eating my
garden, I have to kill all the butterflies!" though their larvae certainly
are eating there. It's about BALANCE so no one insect becomes so numerous
a garden is injured. You've obviously been using toxic chemicals so long
that you would have to learn patience as well as good gardening practices
to begin to restore a baolance.
You've killed foremost the BENEFICIAL insects so OF COURSE harmful ones
rush back into their ecological niches and to their favorite plants with
no natural predators remaining. The predator insects EVENTUALLY return if
you stop killing poisoning their, and your, environment.

That does not apply. Also what has it got to do with Ironite? You obviously
haven't been reading my posts since this is a NEW garden that laid fallow
for the past 2 years. The first year there were no insect pests. Why would I
waste money and time spraying anything on the plants? If there was this
magical "balance" there wouldn't be such an infestation of these two pests
in a NEW garden. That garden laid fallow under piles of leaves and garden
waste for two years after my accident.

A healthy balanced garden does not need chemical fixes.

What chemical fix? There were no chemicals used until after the insects
appeared and organic powers and sprayed did nothing... what does this have
to do with Ironite?

A healthy garden
will never arise from putting toxic chemicals into it. Every time you
dewscribe another problem that "forces" you to use poisons,

I think you have your posters confused since this is a NEW garden that had
never been sprayed with anything.


you're
describing the result of bad gardening practices which can indeed result
in an endless "battle" with "weapons" in the war zone you've established.

Huh? What are you talking about? Who are you addressing? This is a NEW
garden that lay fallow under leaves and kitchen waste for the last 2
summers!


My gardens are places of peace and rarely any upsets. I require no
pesticides whether marketed in the organic aisle or the harmful-gardeners
aisle. You could turn your war zone into a peaceful garden if you'd
restore an organic balance and stop re-toxifying the place every time you
get the negative results virtually all toxifiers get.

That does not apply. Also what has it got to do with Ironite? You obviously
haven't been reading my posts since this is a NEW garden that laid fallow
for the past 2 years. The first year there were no insect pests. Why would I
waste money and time spraying anything on the plants? If there was this
magical "balance" there wouldn't be such an infestation of these two pests
in a NEW garden. That garden laid fallow under piles of leaves and garden
waste for two years after my accident.


-paghat the ratgirl
--
visit my temperate gardening website:
http://www.paghat.com
visit my film reviews website:
http://www.weirdwildrealm.com

"Jangchub" wrote in message
...
Pags, she's not getting it. When I saw that list of pesticides...who
boy. She doesn't get that, if you nurture the soil with compost you
make for FREE or buy relatively inexpensively she wouldn't need all
the pesticides. But, alas, brick wall and all...

You're another frothing fanatic who doesn't "get it." All our gardens are
loaded with organic matter. Lying by YOU to further your "organic" agenda
wont change that fact. Stop using me as an excuse to get on your
anti-chemical soap box. Organic matter in the soil has no effect on crop
pests and plant disease.

"Jangchub" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:47:44 -0500, "Marie Dodge"
wrote:


It's truly shocking what the cost of organic farming/gardening has come
to.
= O

Yesterday I bought a bag of Medina granular fertilzer, certified
organic, for 20 dollars and it covers up to 4,000 square feet.

How nice! Nothing like that here. Clue #2 = not everyone has stores in
their area that sell organic fertilizers.


I haven't seen anything here but fish emulsion and can't afford almost $10
for a little bottle of the stuff. It wouldn't be enough for one tomato
plant
for the season. I really overspent on insecticides, both organic and
chemical this year due to the WF and spidermites.

You use one tablespoon per gallon of water. That bottle will last a
few years!

You're kidding right? One gallon is enough FE for 3 container Tomatoes for
one watering!



That is a trip with the high cost of gas no less.

Oh, then forget it. Are you on welfare?

Are you retired and living on SS?



I have more time and less money. :-)

So use the Ironite.

I am. ;-) I wanted to know your issues with the product. Has anyone died
from using it in their gardens? Any children suffer from lead inhalation? Is
it being found in veggies grown in soil containing Ironite? I ask a question
and I get a load of people suggesting I purchase all kinds of expensive
products only those with good incomes can afford. I took people's advice on
another Forum to use Organics when the insect infestation started and wasted
over $30 on Neem Oil and Pyrethrum. Neither product made a difference. All
they did was give the insects an unbeatable head start (as I waited for
results) and destroy the garden. By the time I turned to chemicals it was
too late. The plants were totally overrun with spider mites and whitefly.