In article ,
Rick wrote:

I agree with John, your best choice will be a relatively behgn
pesticide like glyphosate (Roundup is one brand). Note- do not open
messages from Billy and Charlie. They won't have anything
constructive to say, and are rather overbearing in their
misunderstanding of science in general, and pesticide use in
particular. Crossbow would probably work better, but it is
considerably more toxic and you nentioned children. Glyphosate has
the advantage of being rapidly inactivated in soil

The non-pesticide option is to grub up the roots repeatedly and keep
the area mowed to prevent flowering and seeding. Both Dock and
nettles have long and split tap roots, so repeated treatment will be
required. This is possible for a smallish garden, but will take
several years.

Another possible alternative is a high concentration of acetic acid
(vinegar). NOTE: concentrations of vinegar sold as pesticides (5-7%)
do not work. The stuff you eat on your salad is 5%. It may burn the
geen down, but the plants will resprout. You may find a higher
concentration (eg 20%). There is a brand called Bradford
horticultural vinegar that is sold and is 20%. It is not branded as a
pesticide and is not EPA aproved for that purpose. This will cause
burns to your skin and will seriously damage your eyes should you get
it in them. It might kill dock roots, but also maybe not. Keep
everyone and everything out of sprayed area for at least 48 hrs.
Glyphosate is much safer.

On Sun, 05 Apr 2009 17:36:53 +1000, John Morrison
wrote:

On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 20:40:14 +0100, keelematt
wrote:

Hi everyone.

Hi, I've read all the previous replies.

snip

One of the biggest problems I need to overcome right now is weed
control. We moved into our house nearly a year ago and inherited a
good sized but terribly neglected garden (30 years). The top 1/3 of
the garden, approx 50'x35’ is totally covered in Docks and nettles but
I'd really rather it be lawned. Last summer I got my hands on some
weedkiller and sprayed the lot, within a week they all seemed dead but
a few weeks later they were back with a vengeance so I sprayed them
again, and the same happened. Obviously they died down over winter but
now they’re back in all their glory.

What was the name of the weed killer you used?

Roundup etc. will probably eventually kill the docks and nettles but it
isn't going to happen overnight.

Sorry about the Ozzie link but I often used:
http://www.yates.com.au/products/wee...d-driveways-no
n-selective-control/zero-once-a-year-path-weeder/
You don't use a bucket or watering can, just a careful spray over the
plant.

Now, this is becoming a real bug bare and I don’t feel like I can move
on until I’ve figure out how to kill them. The area is way too big to
dig them out and they must be so deep routed I’m worried that weed
killer isn’t going to get rid either.

Weed killer *WILL* eventually allow you to win.

You are able to kill the adult plants with weed killer but seeds already in
the ground will again germinate.
So when they germinate spray them with weed killer.

After your weeds are all dead I will go back to saving the planet. ;-)

Rick is a real source of garden wisdom.

Bill

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--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA
Not all who wander are lost.
- J.R.R. Tolkien (1892-1973)

Some Hopi gardener said, "This is not about growing vegetables; it
is about growing kids."

Hey, Charlie, who left the door open? The barbarians are back inside.
Why be they always so ugly?

Well, my little barbarians, let me put it this way. Since you obviously
don't give a rats ass about others, why not think about yourself.

All species of Rumex (docks) are edible and most are medicinal.
http://www.pfaf.org/database/search_...ALLNAMES=rumex

If you have the good luck to have rumex acetosa (sorrel),
it makes a wonderful soup.

Throw money down a hole and poison yourself, or have soup.
What do you want to do?

------
Yellow dock has a long history of use as an alterative. Alterative herbs
have nonspecific effects on the gastrointestinal tract and the liver. As
a result, they are thought to treat skin conditions that are attributed
to toxic metabolites from mal-digestion and poor liver function.

Remedies For:*
Alterative, laxative, hepatic, cholagogue, tonic, depurative,
astringent, antiscorbutic, detergent.

Used for:
Poor Digestion
Skin Conditions

Yellow Dock is used extensively in the treatment of chronic skin
complaints such as psoriasis. The anthraquinones present have a markedly
cathartic action on the bowel, but in this herb they act in a mild way.
Thus it is useful for constipation, working as it does in a much wider
way than simply stimulating the gut muscles. It promotes the flow of
bile and has that somewhat obscure action of being a blood cleanser The
action on the gall-bladder gives it a role in the treatment of jaundice
when this is due to congestion.

Traditional herbalists recommend this herb for: bad blood with chronic
skin disease; bubonic swellings; low deposits in glands and cellular
tissues, and tendency to indolent ulcers; feeble recuperative power;
irritative, dry laryngo- tracheal cough; stubborn, dry, summer cough;
chronic sore throat, with glandular enlargements and hypersecretion;
nervous dyspepsia, with epigastric fullness and pain extending through
left half of chest; cough, with dyspnoea and sense of praecordial
fullness.
------

And Nettles, I should be so lucky.
Again, most have some food and/or medicinal value.
http://www.pfaf.org/database/search_...LLNAMES=nettle

Almost be like throwing money down a hole to kill them off. But if you
want to kill them, cut them down and then eat them as they poke back up.
They are chock full of vitamins and minerals.


In article ,
Rick wrote:

I agree with John, your best choice will be a relatively behgn
pesticide like glyphosate (Roundup is one brand). Note- do not open
messages from Billy and Charlie. They won't have anything
constructive to say, and are rather overbearing in their
misunderstanding of science in general, and pesticide use in
particular.

Shame he's probably already poisoned. He'd have made a good stew.

Crossbow would probably work better, but it is
considerably

"more toxic" Hello?

and you nentioned children. Glyphosate has
the advantage of being rapidly inactivated in soil

The non-pesticide option is to grub up the roots repeatedly and keep
the area mowed to prevent flowering and seeding. Both Dock and
nettles have long and split tap roots, so repeated treatment will be
required. This is possible for a smallish garden, but will take
several years.

Another possible alternative is a high concentration of acetic acid
(vinegar). NOTE: concentrations of vinegar sold as pesticides (5-7%)
do not work. The

"stuff you eat on your salad"
(YES! You can eat dock and nettle on your salads. Save $$$)

is 5%. It may burn the
geen down, but the plants will resprout. You may find a higher
concentration (eg 20%). There is a brand called Bradford
horticultural vinegar that is sold and is 20%. It is not branded as a
pesticide and is not EPA aproved for that purpose. This will cause
burns to your skin and will seriously damage your eyes should you get
it in them. It might kill dock roots, but also maybe not. Keep
everyone and everything out of sprayed area for at least 48 hrs.
Glyphosate is much safer.

Safer than vinegar? Let's see you sprinkle some glyphosate on your salad
then. Personally, I'd go with balsamic. It's a little pricey but well
worth the cost.

Oh well, Kids these days. They just never listen. This used to be a nice
planet. Now, it's just goin' to hell in a hand basket. What's an
organic, peace, and civil rights Nazi to do? Kids! (sigh)
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html

In article ,
Rick wrote:

He he, It only takes one post for people to figure you out Charley!

Whaaaat? You the oracle of Delphi, or somethin', with your vacuous
remarks? If you have something to say, say it, straight out like a man,
there are adults in here. (Sorry for the testosterone banter folks;O)
If you think you have something to share, could we get a cite for it?
Unless it is just an opinion. You know about opinions, right? They'er
like anal sphincters. Everybody has one, but nobody wants to hear it.
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Tue, 07 Apr 2009 15:41:21 -0700, Billy
wrote:

Hey, Charlie, who left the door open? The barbarians are back inside.
Why be they always so ugly?

Our friend Rick is an annual spring repeat, kinda like a weed, ya'
know. Remember him from last year? Proponent of GM and all things
chemical....one of them there real smart fellers what likes to put
folks down with his show of edgycation, dick, er, degree waving and
all that there high minded stuff. Seems it's hokey dokey fer his
kind to put down our kind, but the vicey versey is a no no.

(I think he's one of them TLA guys sent here fer disinformation
distribution...know whut I mean, Verne?)


Charlie

TLA? You mean like DM-F or SOB?
Anyways, if'in you wants to keep him, you're gone have to wash and worm
him first. I'm too tuckered after that set-to with that MG teacher to be
bothered with him. MG teacher? Wot you suppose that means? Miniature
golf, maybe? You think she could teach me miniature golf, Charlie? I
think I'd like that. MG? GM?? Nawww. MG female - GM male? I got a bad
feeling about this Charlie. Charlie, what chew know bout mirror images
an' reflection symmetry?
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html

In article , Charlie wrote:

gardengal/gardenrick? MG/GM? yin/yang? What's been loosed in the
garden?

Oh lawdy, Billy. We goin' all physics or metaphysical here? Or
bi-polar? or........? Sheet mon, this ain't one of dem Mr. Natural
moments, now is it?

--
Charlie

"Mr. Natural sez, Use the right tool for the job"

Tell that to brooklyn1 and Jangchub. I'm about to have crop failure.
It's not a full moon tonight is it?
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html

You two are a couple of the most unpleasant and aggressive people I've ever come across in forums. So much so that at times it's actually funny. Not that you care.

You know, you're probably right about everything you say, I don't profess to have any kind of knowledge or wisdom on the green vs non green debate (to simplify matters for the sake of ease) but I do know this: Your message would be much better received, accepted and perhaps even acted upon if you didn't resort to actively attacking with such bile the people you are 'discussing' with. Not every one knows or understands the topics and issues as you do and perhaps education and conversation would be a better bet than aggression and slander.

On Apr 5, 9:40*am, gardengal wrote:
On Apr 4, 6:09*pm, keelematt
wrote:





Billy, do you live your entire life being a total prick or are you just
a part time keyboard hero? *I moderated a number of forums for many
years and I must admit that it's rare to come across anybody as
obnoxious or eager for a flame war as you! *It's usually immature
teenagers that are trying to wind people up at the drop of a hat. *What
was it you called me? *Dumber than dirt wasn't it, you really have no
idea how far off the truth you are, jackass.

You mentioned in your first post that I was here looking for a poison
solution - you're absolutely full of crud, I asked for suggested
methods of killing the Docks not poisoning them, I had been considering
using a paraffin burner or coving them rather than using chemicals and
wondered if it might have been suggested here, it seems like you're
just to eager waiting to start jumping up and down on your soap box
before looking any further than your blurred, narrow minded outlook on
the human race.

Well Mr Smartarse, answer me this - What the hell is so vain and stupid
about a lawn?
My children would be lost without the lawn to play on. *We do have
woods as well as more wild areas on our ground for them to explore but
they still love to kick a ball about the place and ride their toy
tractors around. *You really are a complete tosser. *Would you rather I
concreted the lot and saved myself a life times worth of work? *Are we
not being encouraged to keep lawned areas by your fellow eco warriors?

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post links on here but on the off chance
'here's' (http://tinyurl.com/yjm842) one for you ;-)

I'll take another look at the help comments tomorrow and see if we can
figure out a solution. *Shame I've lowered my self to Billy's level and
wasted 20 minutes of my life writing this post!

--
keelematt

Sometimes it's just not worth it to respond :-)

. But the organic Nazis, such as Billy appears to be, are detrimental to the
cause as are any type of ideologues and tend to put people off the
program rather than encouraging them

I am commenting on just that portion of your message that includes the
expression "organic Nazis".

Please consider that the Seinfeld-popularized use of ".....Nazis" to
denote
anyone or anything you disapprove of is deeply offensive to people
who lost their families in the death camps of the real Nazis -- as
well as to people
whose loved ones were killed or wounded fighting the real Nazis.

I am heartsick when I see this phrase promiscuously used, and I
entreat thoughtful people to eliminate it from their vocabularies.