In article ,
Bob wrote:
"Your money should be going to ----
instead" (from people who obviously don't donate their own money to
anything) ...and even people saying that the animals should all be
euthanized (like the first nasty reply in this thread). Hard to
comprehend.


Much better to play with them for a day or two then kill them.

Bill

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle."
-Philo of Alexandria

http://www.youtube.com/usnationalarchives

On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 21:04:11 +0000 (UTC), enigma
wrote:

Bob wrote in
:


That's the current status, though we don't have a lot of potted
plants. They limit floor space. Hence the interest in something
they could walk on, even if it needs to be swapped out
periodically.

ok, then, have you tried full spectrum UVB bulbs. i'd think they
would help with depression in the patients, and i know that they
work pretty well on the plants in my tort pens. i mostly use the
CFL UVB bulbs, but you can get tubes as well.

Oh yeah, I have several types of UVB lights. That's something that I
researched a lot when I dealt with reptiles. Always worried about
MBD, but there have also been some vet conference seminars that have
correlated location (probably light and temperature) with other
diseases. I believe there was some relation between incidence of
osteomyelitis in northern states. Something that may be worth looking
into if your animals are prone (I've enountered it).

I deal with warm-blooded creatures these days, so they can still get
some outdoor time during the winter. We set up cages where we can
shuttle them from indoors to outdoors for 1/2 hour or an hour, and it
seems to keep them happier (Now if I were only less busy with the
little buggers, I'd be able to go outside too).

At the time that I was looking for data on UVB, the main resource was
a Yahoo group called "UVB Meter Owners":
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/UVB_Meter_Owners/

Kind of a misleading name in that many did specialize in reptiles.
There were a lot of great people there, both on the more scientific
end, and others who did extensive testing to try to improve reptile
environments.

One of the newer topics when I was active (it's been a few years) was
the Weston UVB lamp; a full sized flood with external ballast. There
was a lot of debate about whether the fluorescent-type designs
(Zoomed, etc) were weak, or the Weston-type bulbs were too strong.

I don't know about resolution to that, but I did end up trying a
couple Weston bulbs. My feeling was that even if the fluo bulbs were
putting out enough 310nm, that the close proximity required would
result in hit or miss exposure. Since UVB radiation obeys inverse
square law, my feeling was that the more powerful Weston type could be
mounted at greater distance, for less proximity sensitivity. IOW,
distance between the lamp and green critter would not vary over as
wide a percentage. When you consider it, that's closer to how
sunlight works.

Anyway, since you still deal with reptiles, I thought that may be of
interest to you.

i would try getting some heavy duty jelly roll type pans from a
kitchen supply (or plastic boot trays maybe?) and punching several
drainage holes. if you know a sheet metal worker, you could get
actual 3x3 pans made, but jelly roll pans might be as close as
commercially available. fill with a sterile medium (even damp paper
towels) & sprout rye/wheat grass. those both grow pretty quickly,
so you might be wanting to start new trays at least weekly, so you
can swap out the too tall or trampled grass.

Great idea! Restaurant supply we -do- have. g I'll check with
them.

i'm not much on squirrels, but i've repaired a few raccoon & birds,
and a big brown bat with a torn wing (hint: bats do not stay in
bird cages g). i'm more into reptile repair myself. it's amazing
what a turtle can survive.
lee

I love turtles. Never kept one, though we used to occasionally rescue
them when I lived in the sticks.

Already mentioned that my father studies bats. Moved close to some of
the large caves. Beautiful creatures. Yeah, I wouldn't want to chase
one around if he got loose. Not sure how you recaptured yours.

One of the current concerns is White Nose Syndrome (WNS), which you've
probably heard of:

http://www.forums.caves.org/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=6083

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Nose

Gotta wonder where these things come from. Luckily, it doesn't appear
to have spread much into southern states yet. Gotta hope that it's
dependant on northern environment, or that's bad news for large bat
populations.

In article ,
wrote:
Meant to put this in the privious post but got side tracked by gunner.
Been to alt.vet.med recently? Dead newsgroup.
OK. How about http://www.rainbowwildlife.com/video-squirrels.html
At the very least, it shows how professionals do things.

I apologize for responding in the manner you often do, but why assume
the worst from everyone you don't know who posts here?

It's good to know that you can be as cranky an ol' ******* as myself.
Welcome to the club and make yerself comfortable.
--

- Billy

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and
find out for themselves.
Will Rogers

http://green-house.tv/video/the-spring-garden-tour
http://www.tomdispatch.com/p/zinn

On Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:25:38 +0000 (UTC), enigma
wrote:

Bob wrote in
news
That would be correct. There are only about 4 or 5 of us (in a
large city), and no funded organizations that deal with
wildlife. That is, aside from housing them overnight and usually
euthanizing them within a day or two.

not NYC?
do you get any other of the fringe city dwellers, like oppossum,
raccoons, coyotes, foxes? or just the obvious, like squirrels? any
birds? raptors?

BTW, my father (out of state) works with bats. Amazing
creatures.

yes, they are. i'm so happy the government is giving emergency
funding for the study of white nose! can you imagine how awful the
mosquitoes would be without them? or a world without vanilla?
lee bat conservation international. donate!!!

I just mentioned WNS in another post, but obviously you already know
about it. Yeah, it's tough to stir up sympathy for bats (squirrels
are tough enough, and they're cute and fuzzy). I hear lots of "let
'em die" from the usual crowd, until they're informed of the possible
consequences. For some, it depends on which animal you hate worse, so
mentioning West Nile/Mosquitos usually elicits some sympathy for bats.
g

I've occasionaly 'rescued' birds, but that entailed just mainenance or
shuttling the worse injuries off to those more specialized. I've
actually seen a couple raccoons and oppossums wander into the city,
but I don't deal with them (my life is complicated as it is, and
there's a whole other level of licensing for possible rabies vectors).

One of the misperceptions about those mythological altruistic
city-funded "Wildlife Organizations": Someone called the city about an
oppossum who had wandered into a park. They captured and euthanized
the poor critter and its babies. Would have been easier to transport
her to a rural location, but that's "not their policy." The animal is
nocturnal--she wasn't bothering anyone. She was obviously just
displaced or lost.

Since you're up on WNS, do you happen to know if there's been any news
re profiling it or its spread?

On Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:27:50 -0400, Bob wrote:

On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 21:48:24 -0500, wrote:

Usenet used to be a place where if you were sitting at your computer
and had a question you could find a group that could offer you ideas.
If it's your intent to wreck rec.gardens, congrats - you'e doing a
bang up job.

Yes, lovely attack as usual.

Kate - apologies to the group. Long day.

There's something about this that seems to bring the loonies out of
the woodwork. Hard to figure. You could post about mugging old
ladies and no one would comment. Post about spending time and money
trying to help animals and they start howling.

City newspapers occasionally run stories on the local wildlife rescue
people, and you wouldn't believe some of the vitriolic hate mail that
usually follows in the wake. "Your money should be going to ----
instead" (from people who obviously don't donate their own money to
anything) ...and even people saying that the animals should all be
euthanized (like the first nasty reply in this thread). Hard to
comprehend.

I find it bizarre but you're right.

It's usually balanced out by nicer, saner people such as yourself. So
thanks for that.

I'm not a gardener, so this was probably a one-time (innocent)
question for me. Sorry to see what's going on with your newsgroup.

Well before you go, I was thinking about what might keeps a squirrel
mentally challenged and perhaps this would be sturdy enough. It keeps
dogs entertained.

http://www.alphadogtoys.com/twist_tr...chew_toys.html

I haven't been to that web site before so I'm not endorsing it, just
the toy. Put some peanut butter, a few nuts, freeze and give the
creature something to occupy their time. Just a thought.

Kate

In article ,
Bill who putters wrote:

In article ,
Bob wrote:


There are only about 4 or 5 of us (in a large
city), and no funded organizations that deal with wildlife. That is,
aside from housing them overnight and usually euthanizing them within
a day or two.

I said put them down and labeled a loon. Euthanasia sounds so
correct.

21 century Schizoid man

Bill

Now Bill, the jerk is a guest ;O)
--

- Billy

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and
find out for themselves.
Will Rogers

http://green-house.tv/video/the-spring-garden-tour
http://www.tomdispatch.com/p/zinn

In article ,
Mc wrote:

Charlie wrote in :

Mc,pining for the days when a guy named Bill was one of
the most valuable contributors to rec.gardens, not the loons
we have today.


This is yet another of the lame threads showing here recently and the
lame posters spewing forth.

McCharlie, just another mick *******, with pretty good lineage


A lot of the lame threads are here these days because the
loon squad has run off a lot of the good folks. This is not
unique to rec.gardens, and it's happened before, but it still
stinks.

Go through the rg archives in google, and look at the posts
made by a Bill Morgan, that name ought to be familiar to
some of the other old-timers here. Compare and contrast
to our current crop of BillBilly.

Hey, if Keslick can come back after a long hiatus, maybe
someone good can, too!

Well maybe you'll hang around and show us how to get it right ;O)
--

- Billy

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and
find out for themselves.
Will Rogers

http://green-house.tv/video/the-spring-garden-tour
http://www.tomdispatch.com/p/zinn

In article ,
Bob wrote:

I said I volunteer my time and money, I took the time
to study and get licensing, I hire the best veterinary specialists
that I can find, and fund everything myself. That's all you need to
know.

But it certainly isn't all I want to know. There certainly can't be any
harm in telling us where you are playing Mother Teresa. Hmmmmm?
--

- Billy

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and
find out for themselves.
Will Rogers

http://green-house.tv/video/the-spring-garden-tour
http://www.tomdispatch.com/p/zinn

In article ,
Mc wrote:

a horse's a$$

There's something I'd expect you to know about. Farm boy were you?
--

- Billy

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and
find out for themselves.
Will Rogers

http://green-house.tv/video/the-spring-garden-tour
http://www.tomdispatch.com/p/zinn

In article ,
Bob wrote:

And what's with the "Dr. Bob" thing?

Sorry, that should have been Dr. Mengele. At first I thought you were
just a clown, but now I see you are more menacing than that.
--

- Billy

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and
find out for themselves.
Will Rogers

http://green-house.tv/video/the-spring-garden-tour
http://www.tomdispatch.com/p/zinn

Bob wrote in
:

I just mentioned WNS in another post, but obviously you already
know about it. Yeah, it's tough to stir up sympathy for bats
(squirrels are tough enough, and they're cute and fuzzy). I
hear lots of "let 'em die" from the usual crowd, until they're
informed of the possible consequences. For some, it depends on
which animal you hate worse, so mentioning West Nile/Mosquitos
usually elicits some sympathy for bats. g

well, the "squirrels are cute" line doesn't really work so well
when they're mauling my garden & making off with my hickory nut
crop i do like squirrels though, mostly because of their most
annoying trait: figuring things out. how *do* you keep a squirrel
in a pen?
and bats are cute and fuzzy too!

One of the misperceptions about those mythological altruistic
city-funded "Wildlife Organizations": Someone called the city
about an oppossum who had wandered into a park. They captured
and euthanized the poor critter and its babies. Would have been
easier to transport her to a rural location, but that's "not
their policy." The animal is nocturnal--she wasn't bothering
anyone. She was obviously just displaced or lost.

it's surprising how many people *hate* possums, i guess because
they look like rats. i wouldn't mess with an adult if i didn't need
to, because they can be pretty nasty, but they don't go out of
their way to attack.
i have barn cats, who have a heated bed in the winter. one night i
went out to shut the chickens in (they free range) & feed the cats,
and there was a possum curled up in the cat's bed sound asleep. not
exactly what i want in my chicken barn... it was persuaded to
leave, & hasn't returned, but that was weird.
i also have a couple skunks that eat with the cats. they don't
bother the chickens, but they do get a few eggs. shrug they eat
ground nesting yellow jackets, so i'll let them have a couple eggs.
it's a good tradeoff.

Since you're up on WNS, do you happen to know if there's been
any news re profiling it or its spread?

this is the latest:
http://www.fws.gov/northeast/white_nose.html
lee

On Wed, 24 Jun 2009 23:31:12 +0000 (UTC), enigma
wrote:

Bob wrote in
:

I just mentioned WNS in another post, but obviously you already
know about it. Yeah, it's tough to stir up sympathy for bats
(squirrels are tough enough, and they're cute and fuzzy). I
hear lots of "let 'em die" from the usual crowd, until they're
informed of the possible consequences. For some, it depends on
which animal you hate worse, so mentioning West Nile/Mosquitos
usually elicits some sympathy for bats. g

well, the "squirrels are cute" line doesn't really work so well
when they're mauling my garden & making off with my hickory nut
crop i do like squirrels though, mostly because of their most
annoying trait: figuring things out. how *do* you keep a squirrel
in a pen?
and bats are cute and fuzzy too!

Where I was the squirrels were in cages. I wasn't very good at keeping
them in when I was feeding and cleaning. On seveal occasions, one
would run up my arm, over my back and was free! (I wan't good at
catching them either - the squirrels no doubt enjoyed my being there.)
What I enjoy most about squirrels is how much they like having fun -
as soon as their eyes are open they're wrestling with each other. As
Cindy Lauper might have sung, Squirrels Just Wanna Have Fun.

One of the misperceptions about those mythological altruistic
city-funded "Wildlife Organizations": Someone called the city
about an oppossum who had wandered into a park. They captured
and euthanized the poor critter and its babies. Would have been
easier to transport her to a rural location, but that's "not
their policy." The animal is nocturnal--she wasn't bothering
anyone. She was obviously just displaced or lost.

it's surprising how many people *hate* possums, i guess because
they look like rats. i wouldn't mess with an adult if i didn't need
to, because they can be pretty nasty, but they don't go out of
their way to attack.

We had a possum that would hiss and make threatening gestures towards
everyone. I discovered he was a sucker for vanilla wafers and I would
lure him out of his cage and let him roam the room while I cleaned and
then I'd lure him back in when I was done.

i have barn cats, who have a heated bed in the winter. one night i
went out to shut the chickens in (they free range) & feed the cats,
and there was a possum curled up in the cat's bed sound asleep. not
exactly what i want in my chicken barn... it was persuaded to
leave, & hasn't returned, but that was weird.

I came upon a raccoon in a cat's bed once. The cat didn't seem to mind
so I left it to it's snoring.

i also have a couple skunks that eat with the cats. they don't
bother the chickens, but they do get a few eggs. shrug they eat
ground nesting yellow jackets, so i'll let them have a couple eggs.
it's a good tradeoff.

What's with cats and skunks? I came home one day to find 2 cats and 2
skunks chasing each other in the backyard. I backed up and parked in
the front.

Since you're up on WNS, do you happen to know if there's been
any news re profiling it or its spread?

this is the latest:
http://www.fws.gov/northeast/white_nose.html
lee

Kate

Bob wrote in
:

One of the newer topics when I was active (it's been a few
years) was the Weston UVB lamp; a full sized flood with external
ballast. There was a lot of debate about whether the
fluorescent-type designs (Zoomed, etc) were weak, or the
Weston-type bulbs were too strong.

ah, then you probably missed the introduction & subsequent recall
of Zilla's 'desert UVB' lamps. there were serious eye burn issues
from the wavelengths. i don't think there were any permanant
blindnesses, but it was not fun. i had one on my Schneider skink,
but he's not a basker & wasn't affected. i sent the lamps back
anyway.

I love turtles. Never kept one, though we used to occasionally
rescue them when I lived in the sticks.

i have a snapper who will be 6 in August. he was a severely
dehydrated hatchling when my nephew found him in the road. nephew
thought it was dead, but brought it to me anyway. a little water &
some lettuce and he was off & growing he's gone from the size of
a quarter to almost the size of a tea saucer, but he's only that
big because i don't hybernate him for more than 4-6 weeks... so
he's eating a bit more than a snapper in the wild.
i also have tortoises, a pair of Pyxis (and an egg! i hope it
hatches. so far it looks good) & a Bell's Hingeback. tortoises are
a little easier to keep than turtles.

Gotta wonder where these things come from. Luckily, it doesn't
appear to have spread much into southern states yet. Gotta hope
that it's dependant on northern environment, or that's bad news
for large bat populations.

it does look like it's a cold-loving fungus. that's a hopeful sign
for southern bats, at least.
lee

wrote in
:

We had a possum that would hiss and make threatening gestures
towards everyone. I discovered he was a sucker for vanilla
wafers and I would lure him out of his cage and let him roam the
room while I cleaned and then I'd lure him back in when I was
done.

looking evil can keep one out of fights. opposums have that down
to an artform
i just wish they had more road smarts... looking evil at a car
doesn't work.

i have barn cats, who have a heated bed in the winter. one
night i
went out to shut the chickens in (they free range) & feed the
cats, and there was a possum curled up in the cat's bed sound
asleep. not exactly what i want in my chicken barn... it was
persuaded to leave, & hasn't returned, but that was weird.

I came upon a raccoon in a cat's bed once. The cat didn't seem
to mind so I left it to it's snoring.

i had a pair of baby raccoons once. the cats were a bit unsure at
first, but once they were getting weaned & moving around, the cats
explained the use of litterboxes to them.

What's with cats and skunks? I came home one day to find 2 cats
and 2 skunks chasing each other in the backyard. I backed up and
parked in the front.

my barn cats are black & white. maybe they figure the skunks are
smelly, near-sighted cats? the smaller skunk is a lot twitchier
than our old skunk (he was around for nearly 6 years, so i think
age caught up with him). i think it's fairly young. we have to be
sure that one knows we're about to go into the barn, & it'll leave.
the mostly white one is almost as laid back as the old skunk...
good thing because we found it sleeping in our basement when we
moved a board. oops. he didn't even stamp though, so no problem. we
put the board back & left the door open. it left.
have you ever seen red & white skunks?
lee

In article ,
enigma wrote:

i had a pair of baby raccoons once. the cats were a bit unsure at
first, but once they were getting weaned & moving around, the cats
explained the use of litterboxes to them.

You weren't worried about Raccoon Roundworm (Baylisascaris)?
http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7...27261--,00.htm
l
Clinical and Pathological Signs
In humans, pathological lesions observed consist of skin irritations
(cutaneous larval migrans) and eye and brain tissue damage (visceral
larval migrans) due to the random migration of the larvae. The affected
individuals may experience nausea, a lethargic feeling, incoordination
and loss of eyesight.
--

- Billy

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and
find out for themselves.
Will Rogers

http://green-house.tv/video/the-spring-garden-tour
http://www.tomdispatch.com/p/zinn