In article , Charlie wrote:

On Fri, 7 Aug 2009 22:58:47 +1000, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote:

Charlie wrote in message
On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 13:58:38 +1000, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote:

I think this system works even better if you chuck all thos things under
the
free top layer. I like to let the worms get at it and do a lot of work
for
me. But then my soil is rotten and hard and wormless so I also dig up
some
worms from my veg garden, dig a tiny bit of soil so thye at least have
some
soil cover and then do what you describe.


hmmmm.......doh. This makes good sense, in that the worms don't have
to chew thru the cardboard/hessian/whatever before they begin to work.

Same weed reduction results, but faster soil improvement results.

Thanks for the idea, Wormwrangler.

Lazy Cow is another name I'm quite prepared to answer to. I don't see why I
should do something if all those tireless wee wrigglers will do a lot of the
soil prep for me.


Uhhhh.....yeah....right....*you* may answer to that, but *I* ain't
about to call it out. Shit, old Charlie knows how to tread thru a
minefield!! ;-))))

You know why they call it PMS, right?
Mad Cow was already taken.
(Billy already running)
--
Racial injustice, war, urban blight, and environmental rape have a common denominator in our exploitative economic system.
~Channing E. Phillips

http://tinyurl.com/o63ruj
http://countercurrents.org/roberts020709.htm

Charlie wrote in message
On Fri, 7 Aug 2009 23:05:31 +1000, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote:
Charlie wrote in message

As far as the alfalfa, one needs to find the right balance perhaps. I
think parts of my garden suffered from alfalfa meal overdose this
year. At least I had what appeared to be nitrogen burn on some things
that I likely OD'd with too much alfalfa meal and blood meal.

Charlie I often use lucerne (alfalfa) straw as a mulch but I notice in
another post that you refer to alfalfa pellets.

Can you buy lucerne (alfalfa) in bales such as you'd feed to a horse as
this
stuff is magnificent as a mulch. Or even if you could buy it in the chaff
form should also be good. It's ideal for gardens but not for cattle. My
old lecturer when I was doing a farm animal production course used to say
that feeding lucerne to cows was like feeding chocolate to children.


I'm unable to find small bales locally this year, at least ones that
aren't contracted or weedy as hell, and don't feel like driving thirty
odd miles for a few bales. Most producers and farmers are now baling
in the 1500 lb round bales. A bit unruly to wrestle into my small
garden. ;-) I'm using chopped leaves and old moldy straw this year
for mulch.

I use alfalfa pellets and meal in potting mix and incorporated in
compost and the mulch. Meal sounds like the chaff you mention. Meal
is ground alfalfa which has the consistency of,
say....hmmmm......wheat germ, and is good for incorporation or as a
slurry with water in compost (thanks to catdaddy, gets a heap
smokin'), but I find tends to form a crust when used as mulch.

Chaff is much bigger than wheat germ - more like half the size of a corn
flake. I like it because it doesnt' crust up - good for letting the water
through but mulches tiny seedlings well without having them disappear below
the mulch.

Charlie wrote in message
On Fri, 7 Aug 2009 22:58:47 +1000, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote:
Charlie wrote in message

Thanks for the idea, Wormwrangler.

Lazy Cow is another name I'm quite prepared to answer to. I don't see why
I
should do something if all those tireless wee wrigglers will do a lot of
the
soil prep for me.


Uhhhh.....yeah....right....*you* may answer to that, but *I* ain't
about to call it out. Shit, old Charlie knows how to tread thru a
minefield!! ;-))))

Wise decision :-)) I can go from dead placid to prize bitch in a
nanosecond. :-))

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"George.com" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article , Charlie wrote:

On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 23:27:51 -0700, Billy
wrote:

In article , Charlie
wrote:

On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 13:58:38 +1000, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote:

"George.com" wrote in message news:h5bfs1

I'd not bother with the plastic and instead cover the area with
cardboard
or old felt carpet underlay. Whatever comes free and second
hand. A
carpet
layer will often have second hand hessian underlay they are
happy
to
part
with for free.

Coffee grounds, food scraps, leaves, grass clippings. Chuck it
all
on
top
of the hessian or cardboard and leave for a few months & you
have a
garden.

I think this system works even better if you chuck all thos things
under
the
free top layer. I like to let the worms get at it and do a lot of
work
for
me. But then my soil is rotten and hard and wormless so I also
dig
up
some
worms from my veg garden, dig a tiny bit of soil so thye at least
have
some
soil cover and then do what you describe.


hmmmm.......doh. This makes good sense, in that the worms don't
have
to chew thru the cardboard/hessian/whatever before they begin to
work.

Same weed reduction results, but faster soil improvement results.

Thanks for the idea, Wormwrangler.

Charlie

I would suggest that you first lay down your soil amendments (manure,
rock phosphate, potassiun [wood ash, what ever]), then your
cardboard,
or newsprint, and then cover that unsightly mess with the mulch of
your
choice (I prefer alfalfa), then if you want to go full gonzo, spread
some green manure seeds (I'd go with rye or buckwheat to condition
the
soil [make it looser], or some legumes to add more nitrogen to the
soil).
In any event, the worms will thank you for it.

No disagreement witcha on this and what I have done also, but my take
and thinking, after Fran's post, is lay down a good layer of worm bait
and food, such as cooked rice and pasta, veggie trimmings

May I see the wine list?;o)

, rotten
fruit and trimmings, etc., *under* the cardboard, with amendements,

I think the operative word, Billy, in my suggestion was 'chuck'. I could
substitute it with the word 'bung' to try and reflect the approach I am
taking.

No just 'do nothing gardening', but 'close enough is good enough
gardening'.

rob

It's just Mr. Occam and his razor again. No sense making anything more
difficult than it has to be. But tell me again, why is Chuck underneath
the Hessian with a bung? All sounds rather "kinky" to this country boy.
Must be what comes from spending your life up-side down ;O)

I should have written felt underlay, and whatever Chuck is doing being felt
in his garden I, hmmmmmm, don't need to know more about thank you very much.

As for the bung, if you want to offer me one just make it substantial please
in the back pocket.

rob

"Charlie" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 7 Aug 2009 20:08:12 +1200, "George.com"
wrote:

I think the operative word, Billy, in my suggestion was 'chuck'. I could
substitute it with the word 'bung' to try and reflect the approach I am
taking.

rob

Yeah, well, I'm scratching me arse and trying to figure if I've been
directly, or indirectly, insulted or what.

(Bloody cheeky often obtuse bloke rob is, he is)

Charlie, who just this minute remembered the cider laid down and is
going for an opener and bottle this very minute...

why, does chuck take the odd bung?

Does George like his kungpow spicy? Why would George steal from the Yankees?
George is getting upset! Worlds are colliding. It's all just slipping away,
and you're letting it happen.

rob

In article ,
"George.com" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"George.com" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article , Charlie wrote:

On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 23:27:51 -0700, Billy
wrote:

In article , Charlie
wrote:

On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 13:58:38 +1000, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote:

"George.com" wrote in message news:h5bfs1

I'd not bother with the plastic and instead cover the area with
cardboard
or old felt carpet underlay. Whatever comes free and second
hand. A
carpet
layer will often have second hand hessian underlay they are
happy
to
part
with for free.

Coffee grounds, food scraps, leaves, grass clippings. Chuck it
all
on
top
of the hessian or cardboard and leave for a few months & you
have a
garden.

I think this system works even better if you chuck all thos things
under
the
free top layer. I like to let the worms get at it and do a lot of
work
for
me. But then my soil is rotten and hard and wormless so I also
dig
up
some
worms from my veg garden, dig a tiny bit of soil so thye at least
have
some
soil cover and then do what you describe.


hmmmm.......doh. This makes good sense, in that the worms don't
have
to chew thru the cardboard/hessian/whatever before they begin to
work.

Same weed reduction results, but faster soil improvement results.

Thanks for the idea, Wormwrangler.

Charlie

I would suggest that you first lay down your soil amendments (manure,
rock phosphate, potassiun [wood ash, what ever]), then your
cardboard,
or newsprint, and then cover that unsightly mess with the mulch of
your
choice (I prefer alfalfa), then if you want to go full gonzo, spread
some green manure seeds (I'd go with rye or buckwheat to condition
the
soil [make it looser], or some legumes to add more nitrogen to the
soil).
In any event, the worms will thank you for it.

No disagreement witcha on this and what I have done also, but my take
and thinking, after Fran's post, is lay down a good layer of worm bait
and food, such as cooked rice and pasta, veggie trimmings

May I see the wine list?;o)

, rotten
fruit and trimmings, etc., *under* the cardboard, with amendements,

I think the operative word, Billy, in my suggestion was 'chuck'. I could
substitute it with the word 'bung' to try and reflect the approach I am
taking.

No just 'do nothing gardening', but 'close enough is good enough
gardening'.

rob

It's just Mr. Occam and his razor again. No sense making anything more
difficult than it has to be. But tell me again, why is Chuck underneath
the Hessian with a bung? All sounds rather "kinky" to this country boy.
Must be what comes from spending your life up-side down ;O)

I should have written felt underlay, and whatever Chuck is doing being felt
in his garden I, hmmmmmm, don't need to know more about thank you very much.

As for the bung, if you want to offer me one just make it substantial please
in the back pocket.

rob

OK, that's it. Spankings all around ;O)
--
Racial injustice, war, urban blight, and environmental rape have a common denominator in our exploitative economic system.*
~Channing E. Phillips

http://tinyurl.com/o63ruj
http://countercurrents.org/roberts020709.htm

Charlie wrote in message
On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 23:12:28 +1200, "George.com" wrote:

Does George like his kungpow spicy? Why would George steal from the
Yankees?
George is getting upset! Worlds are colliding. It's all just slipping
away,
and you're letting it happen.

rob

Hmmm.....first you have me scratchin' me butt, and now I'm scratchin'
me head!

Ah well, nothing better to do on a hot Sat. nite than try and
translate Robspeak into something poor old addled Charlie can
unnerstan'.

Charlie

I think George just might have had a few too many cleansing ales when he was
writing his post as I too haven't got a clue what he's on about and I can
generally understand Kiwi posts :-)))).

In article
,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

Charlie wrote in message
On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 23:12:28 +1200, "George.com" wrote:

Does George like his kungpow spicy? Why would George steal from the
Yankees?
George is getting upset! Worlds are colliding. It's all just slipping
away,
and you're letting it happen.

rob

Hmmm.....first you have me scratchin' me butt, and now I'm scratchin'
me head!

Ah well, nothing better to do on a hot Sat. nite than try and
translate Robspeak into something poor old addled Charlie can
unnerstan'.

Charlie

I think George just might have had a few too many cleansing ales
I don't think that is possible. Alcohol frees the body from the tyranny
of the mind. Can't ever be too free.
when he was
writing his post as I too haven't got a clue what he's on about and I can
generally understand Kiwi posts :-)))).
The medium IS the massage.
--
Racial injustice, war, urban blight, and environmental rape have a common denominator in our exploitative economic system.*
~Channing E. Phillips

http://tinyurl.com/o63ruj
http://countercurrents.org/roberts020709.htm

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"George.com" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"George.com" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article , Charlie
wrote:

On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 23:27:51 -0700, Billy
wrote:

In article , Charlie
wrote:

On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 13:58:38 +1000, "FarmI" ask@itshall be
given
wrote:

"George.com" wrote in message news:h5bfs1

I'd not bother with the plastic and instead cover the area
with
cardboard
or old felt carpet underlay. Whatever comes free and second
hand. A
carpet
layer will often have second hand hessian underlay they are
happy
to
part
with for free.

Coffee grounds, food scraps, leaves, grass clippings. Chuck
it
all
on
top
of the hessian or cardboard and leave for a few months & you
have a
garden.

I think this system works even better if you chuck all thos
things
under
the
free top layer. I like to let the worms get at it and do a lot
of
work
for
me. But then my soil is rotten and hard and wormless so I also
dig
up
some
worms from my veg garden, dig a tiny bit of soil so thye at
least
have
some
soil cover and then do what you describe.


hmmmm.......doh. This makes good sense, in that the worms don't
have
to chew thru the cardboard/hessian/whatever before they begin to
work.

Same weed reduction results, but faster soil improvement
results.

Thanks for the idea, Wormwrangler.

Charlie

I would suggest that you first lay down your soil amendments
(manure,
rock phosphate, potassiun [wood ash, what ever]), then your
cardboard,
or newsprint, and then cover that unsightly mess with the mulch of
your
choice (I prefer alfalfa), then if you want to go full gonzo,
spread
some green manure seeds (I'd go with rye or buckwheat to condition
the
soil [make it looser], or some legumes to add more nitrogen to the
soil).
In any event, the worms will thank you for it.

No disagreement witcha on this and what I have done also, but my
take
and thinking, after Fran's post, is lay down a good layer of worm
bait
and food, such as cooked rice and pasta, veggie trimmings

May I see the wine list?;o)

, rotten
fruit and trimmings, etc., *under* the cardboard, with amendements,

I think the operative word, Billy, in my suggestion was 'chuck'. I
could
substitute it with the word 'bung' to try and reflect the approach I
am
taking.

No just 'do nothing gardening', but 'close enough is good enough
gardening'.

rob

It's just Mr. Occam and his razor again. No sense making anything more
difficult than it has to be. But tell me again, why is Chuck underneath
the Hessian with a bung? All sounds rather "kinky" to this country boy.
Must be what comes from spending your life up-side down ;O)

I should have written felt underlay, and whatever Chuck is doing being
felt
in his garden I, hmmmmmm, don't need to know more about thank you very
much.

As for the bung, if you want to offer me one just make it substantial
please
in the back pocket.

rob

OK, that's it. Spankings all around ;O)

I note charlie responded to the spanking comment. As for me Billy, just pass
me the bung mate. Used note & brown envelope & I'll keep quiet. Cheers.

rob

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article
,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

Charlie wrote in message
On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 23:12:28 +1200, "George.com"
wrote:

Does George like his kungpow spicy? Why would George steal from the
Yankees?
George is getting upset! Worlds are colliding. It's all just slipping
away,
and you're letting it happen.

rob

Hmmm.....first you have me scratchin' me butt, and now I'm scratchin'
me head!

Ah well, nothing better to do on a hot Sat. nite than try and
translate Robspeak into something poor old addled Charlie can
unnerstan'.

Charlie

I think George just might have had a few too many cleansing ales
I don't think that is possible. Alcohol frees the body from the tyranny
of the mind. Can't ever be too free.
when he was
writing his post as I too haven't got a clue what he's on about and I can
generally understand Kiwi posts :-)))).
The medium IS the massage.

Gees, the reference is just staring you in the face. If relationship George
walks through that door, independent George will die. A George divided
against himself cannot stand.

Aw, lets just go back to talking about Chuck being felt in his garden.

rob

In article ,
"George.com" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"George.com" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"George.com" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
..
.
In article , Charlie
wrote:

On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 23:27:51 -0700, Billy
wrote:

In article , Charlie
wrote:

On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 13:58:38 +1000, "FarmI" ask@itshall be
given
wrote:

"George.com" wrote in message news:h5bfs1

I'd not bother with the plastic and instead cover the area
with
cardboard
or old felt carpet underlay. Whatever comes free and second
hand. A
carpet
layer will often have second hand hessian underlay they are
happy
to
part
with for free.

Coffee grounds, food scraps, leaves, grass clippings. Chuck
it
all
on
top
of the hessian or cardboard and leave for a few months & you
have a
garden.

I think this system works even better if you chuck all thos
things
under
the
free top layer. I like to let the worms get at it and do a lot
of
work
for
me. But then my soil is rotten and hard and wormless so I also
dig
up
some
worms from my veg garden, dig a tiny bit of soil so thye at
least
have
some
soil cover and then do what you describe.


hmmmm.......doh. This makes good sense, in that the worms don't
have
to chew thru the cardboard/hessian/whatever before they begin to
work.

Same weed reduction results, but faster soil improvement
results.

Thanks for the idea, Wormwrangler.

Charlie

I would suggest that you first lay down your soil amendments
(manure,
rock phosphate, potassiun [wood ash, what ever]), then your
cardboard,
or newsprint, and then cover that unsightly mess with the mulch of
your
choice (I prefer alfalfa), then if you want to go full gonzo,
spread
some green manure seeds (I'd go with rye or buckwheat to condition
the
soil [make it looser], or some legumes to add more nitrogen to the
soil).
In any event, the worms will thank you for it.

No disagreement witcha on this and what I have done also, but my
take
and thinking, after Fran's post, is lay down a good layer of worm
bait
and food, such as cooked rice and pasta, veggie trimmings

May I see the wine list?;o)

, rotten
fruit and trimmings, etc., *under* the cardboard, with amendements,

I think the operative word, Billy, in my suggestion was 'chuck'. I
could
substitute it with the word 'bung' to try and reflect the approach I
am
taking.

No just 'do nothing gardening', but 'close enough is good enough
gardening'.

rob

It's just Mr. Occam and his razor again. No sense making anything more
difficult than it has to be. But tell me again, why is Chuck underneath
the Hessian with a bung? All sounds rather "kinky" to this country boy.
Must be what comes from spending your life up-side down ;O)

I should have written felt underlay, and whatever Chuck is doing being
felt
in his garden I, hmmmmmm, don't need to know more about thank you very
much.

As for the bung, if you want to offer me one just make it substantial
please
in the back pocket.

rob

OK, that's it. Spankings all around ;O)

I note charlie responded to the spanking comment. As for me Billy, just pass
me the bung mate. Used note & brown envelope & I'll keep quiet. Cheers.

rob

.. . . and in gardening news, I just discovered that many of my plants
are hermaphrodites. Only in California;O)

Since we're in the garden, he said, leaning against the fence. I like
sweet corn, not super sweet, I still like to be able to taste the corn
flavor, but I've noticed that even with trying to select the perfect
corn, not only I, but my CSA as well, seem to produce corn that is
starchy. On the other hand, I can go to the local market and get corn
that is sweet, that I presume was picked all at the same time. What's up
with that?

I think I'd be willing to grow some hybrid corn, just for the sake of
having good corn on the cob, while I'm learning on my "Golden Bantam".

What corn works for you?
--
Racial injustice, war, urban blight, and environmental rape have a common denominator in our exploitative economic system.*
~Channing E. Phillips

http://tinyurl.com/o63ruj
http://countercurrents.org/roberts020709.htm

In article
,
Billy wrote:

What corn works for you?

Silver Queen was our favorite. Currently not enough sun here but with
our oaks dying maybe light enough too soon.

Bill whose basil is unbelievable and yes it rained again today HARD.

......................
Dinner From Rec.recipes again

Chorizo Cabbage Scramble

This started out as a typical recipe for unstuffed cabbage but has
been seriously adjusted in the direction of TexMex.

1 small head cabbage, shredded (about 4 cups)
1 lb bulk Mexican-style chorizo
1/2 cup uncooked instant brown rice
1 small onion, chopped
1 15 oz can diced tomatoes with chipotle
OR 1 can plain diced tomatoes + 1-2 Tbsp minced chipotle en adobo
1 Tbsp brown sugar
2 tsp salt

Crumble and cook chorizo in large skillet. Drain fat. Add onion and cook
until softened. Add diced tomatoes with liquid from can. Add minced
chipotles if using plain tomatoes. Add rice and brown sugar. Stir until
the rice is well mixed in and the brown sugar has disolved. Add shredded
cabbage and stir together with chorizo mixture. Cover and cook about 15
minutes until cabbage has softened and flavors have blended. Add salt to
taste if needed.

The scramble can be eaten as-is or used as a stuffing for tacos,
tamales, etc.

...............................
I use long grain rice

--

Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

"Charlie" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 19:36:27 +1200, "George.com"
wrote:


"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article
,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

Charlie wrote in message
On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 23:12:28 +1200, "George.com"
wrote:

Does George like his kungpow spicy? Why would George steal from the
Yankees?
George is getting upset! Worlds are colliding. It's all just slipping
away,
and you're letting it happen.

rob

Hmmm.....first you have me scratchin' me butt, and now I'm scratchin'
me head!

Ah well, nothing better to do on a hot Sat. nite than try and
translate Robspeak into something poor old addled Charlie can
unnerstan'.

Charlie

I think George just might have had a few too many cleansing ales
I don't think that is possible. Alcohol frees the body from the tyranny
of the mind. Can't ever be too free.
when he was
writing his post as I too haven't got a clue what he's on about and I
can
generally understand Kiwi posts :-)))).
The medium IS the massage.

Gees, the reference is just staring you in the face. If relationship
George
walks through that door, independent George will die. A George divided
against himself cannot stand.

Aw, lets just go back to talking about Chuck being felt in his garden.

rob

Chuck is beginning to feel like a well trodden carpet....

Stop being such a fuss pot charlie. What you do with a bit of crumpet in
your grotty garden is your business, none of mine. Not being a wowser of
course.

Most of the February cider got bottled yesterday. Looks good, nice n clear
and a good smell. Not going to try any for a few more months yet though,
give it time to mature well.

rob

"Charlie" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:35:55 +1200, "George.com"
wrote:


"Charlie" wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 19:36:27 +1200, "George.com"
wrote:


"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article
,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

Charlie wrote in message
On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 23:12:28 +1200, "George.com"
wrote:

Does George like his kungpow spicy? Why would George steal from the
Yankees?
George is getting upset! Worlds are colliding. It's all just
slipping
away,
and you're letting it happen.

rob

Hmmm.....first you have me scratchin' me butt, and now I'm
scratchin'
me head!

Ah well, nothing better to do on a hot Sat. nite than try and
translate Robspeak into something poor old addled Charlie can
unnerstan'.

Charlie

I think George just might have had a few too many cleansing ales
I don't think that is possible. Alcohol frees the body from the
tyranny
of the mind. Can't ever be too free.
when he was
writing his post as I too haven't got a clue what he's on about and I
can
generally understand Kiwi posts :-)))).
The medium IS the massage.

Gees, the reference is just staring you in the face. If relationship
George
walks through that door, independent George will die. A George divided
against himself cannot stand.

Aw, lets just go back to talking about Chuck being felt in his garden.

rob

Chuck is beginning to feel like a well trodden carpet....

Stop being such a fuss pot charlie. What you do with a bit of crumpet in
your grotty garden is your business, none of mine. Not being a wowser of
course.

Butt of course not.


Most of the February cider got bottled yesterday. Looks good, nice n clear
and a good smell. Not going to try any for a few more months yet though,
give it time to mature well.

rob

I bottled in twelve ouncers after a month in secondary and cracked one
open last weekend and was pleased with the carbonation, aroma, clarity
*and* taste.

Charlie

That seems like only 3 odd months after fermentation? Thats alcoholic
territory charlie.

"Chuck is getting drunk". "Chuck likes his cider young".

rob

"Charlie" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 22:00:28 +1200, "George.com"
wrote:


That seems like only 3 odd months after fermentation? Thats alcoholic
territory charlie.

"Chuck is getting drunk". "Chuck likes his cider young".

rob

Thank you for reminding me of something I oft forget, in my desire to
be clever, but often find myself in a position of being too cute by
half, a quote whose attribute is in question, but valid
nonetheless..."Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is
fighting some kind of battle."

sorry Charlie, you have lost me. Way too subtle.

I'm not game to try it yet even after 6 months, don't want to be
dissappointed, rather be pleasantly surprised. Am thinking maybe of taking a
bottle down to a local park & getting the opinion of the resident drunks.

rob

ps got a load of home brew kit from a mate who knew I was making cider.
Included was an oldish stout brew mixture. I made that up and set it a few
weeks. My near neighbour is a semi-alcoholic. I offered him a few bottles.
He gratefully received. That was 2-3 months ago. A couple weeks back
neighbour was weaving his way home down the street after an sunday afternoon
at the boozer. I was walking the dogs. As we passed I offered him some more
booze. His reply, "naaaah, thanks mate, I'mmmm (long drawl) ok, ha ha ha".
Couldn't even give the stuff to near alcoholics. Didn't think it was that
bad & I dislike the stuff.

rob