Have about 500 sq ft that I want to make into garden for next year....this
area is grass now. what is best way to get this area ready for next year? I
just today found a source for coffee grounds today, and was thinking to
spread coffee grounds over grass and then cover with plastic....then till
next spring.....I don't know if this is best plan....any advise
appreciated.....

In article ,
wrote:

Have about 500 sq ft that I want to make into garden for next year....this
area is grass now. what is best way to get this area ready for next year? I
just today found a source for coffee grounds today, and was thinking to
spread coffee grounds over grass and then cover with plastic....then till
next spring.....I don't know if this is best plan....any advise
appreciated.....

Cheap Dave,
lazy Billy here to recommend that you look at the web sites below.
http://ourgardengang.tripod.com/lasagna_gardening.htm
http://organicgardening.about.com/od...n/a/lasagnagar
den.htm
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Organ.../Lasagna-Garde
ning.aspx

Lasagna gardening is no dig gardening, although if you could double dig
it the first year, and that would be the end of the digging.
http://www.wikihow.com/Double-Dig-a-Garden
http://www.organicgardening.com/feat...19-934,00.html
http://www.simplegiftsfarm.com/double-digging.html

Either way be sure to add your amendments to the organic material,
manure, phosphate, and potassium, when you prep the garden area this
Fall.

Plastic (clear) is good, if your trying to kill off weeds with solar
heat (solarization), but it will keep the moisture out as well (not a
good idea to my mind). Lasagna gardening will pretty much bury the
problem of weeds.

Oh, yeah, coffee grounds can be used on blueberry plants and potatoes
with no harm, but compost them first before you used them on any other
plant.
--
Racial injustice, war, urban blight, and environmental rape have a common denominator in our exploitative economic system.*
~Channing E. Phillips

http://tinyurl.com/o63ruj
http://countercurrents.org/roberts020709.htm

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
wrote:

Have about 500 sq ft that I want to make into garden for next
year....this
area is grass now. what is best way to get this area ready for next year?
I
just today found a source for coffee grounds today, and was thinking to
spread coffee grounds over grass and then cover with plastic....then till
next spring.....I don't know if this is best plan....any advise
appreciated.....

Cheap Dave,
lazy Billy here to recommend that you look at the web sites below.
http://ourgardengang.tripod.com/lasagna_gardening.htm
http://organicgardening.about.com/od...n/a/lasagnagar
den.htm
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Organ.../Lasagna-Garde
ning.aspx

Lasagna gardening is no dig gardening, although if you could double dig
it the first year, and that would be the end of the digging.
http://www.wikihow.com/Double-Dig-a-Garden
http://www.organicgardening.com/feat...19-934,00.html
http://www.simplegiftsfarm.com/double-digging.html


http://www.wikihow.com/Create-a-No-Dig-Garden

http://www.fbga.net/Lasagna%20gardening%202004.htm

I'd not bother with the plastic and instead cover the area with cardboard or
old felt carpet underlay. Whatever comes free and second hand. A carpet
layer will often have second hand hessian underlay they are happy to part
with for free.

Coffee grounds, food scraps, leaves, grass clippings. Chuck it all on top of
the hessian or cardboard and leave for a few months & you have a garden.

rob

"George.com" wrote in message
...

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
wrote:

Have about 500 sq ft that I want to make into garden for next
year....this
area is grass now. what is best way to get this area ready for next
year? I
just today found a source for coffee grounds today, and was thinking to
spread coffee grounds over grass and then cover with plastic....then
till
next spring.....I don't know if this is best plan....any advise
appreciated.....

Cheap Dave,
lazy Billy here to recommend that you look at the web sites below.
http://ourgardengang.tripod.com/lasagna_gardening.htm
http://organicgardening.about.com/od...n/a/lasagnagar
den.htm
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Organ.../Lasagna-Garde
ning.aspx

Lasagna gardening is no dig gardening, although if you could double dig
it the first year, and that would be the end of the digging.
http://www.wikihow.com/Double-Dig-a-Garden
http://www.organicgardening.com/feat...19-934,00.html
http://www.simplegiftsfarm.com/double-digging.html


http://www.wikihow.com/Create-a-No-Dig-Garden

http://www.fbga.net/Lasagna%20gardening%202004.htm

I'd not bother with the plastic and instead cover the area with cardboard
or old felt carpet underlay. Whatever comes free and second hand. A carpet
layer will often have second hand hessian underlay they are happy to part
with for free.

Coffee grounds, food scraps, leaves, grass clippings. Chuck it all on top
of the hessian or cardboard and leave for a few months & you have a
garden.

rob

The video on this page is a laugh. The joker mows his leaves up to make
mulch TWICE. He mows them TWICE. Roftl. Once is more than adequate. Twice is
just wasting time you could be on the couch with newspaper or snoozing.

http://www.wikihow.com/Find-Inexpensive-Mulch

"George.com" wrote in message
...

"George.com" wrote in message
...

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
wrote:

Have about 500 sq ft that I want to make into garden for next
year....this
area is grass now. what is best way to get this area ready for next
year? I
just today found a source for coffee grounds today, and was thinking to
spread coffee grounds over grass and then cover with plastic....then
till
next spring.....I don't know if this is best plan....any advise
appreciated.....

Cheap Dave,
lazy Billy here to recommend that you look at the web sites below.
http://ourgardengang.tripod.com/lasagna_gardening.htm
http://organicgardening.about.com/od...n/a/lasagnagar
den.htm
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Organ.../Lasagna-Garde
ning.aspx

Lasagna gardening is no dig gardening, although if you could double dig
it the first year, and that would be the end of the digging.
http://www.wikihow.com/Double-Dig-a-Garden
http://www.organicgardening.com/feat...19-934,00.html
http://www.simplegiftsfarm.com/double-digging.html


http://www.wikihow.com/Create-a-No-Dig-Garden

http://www.fbga.net/Lasagna%20gardening%202004.htm

I'd not bother with the plastic and instead cover the area with cardboard
or old felt carpet underlay. Whatever comes free and second hand. A
carpet layer will often have second hand hessian underlay they are happy
to part with for free.

Coffee grounds, food scraps, leaves, grass clippings. Chuck it all on top
of the hessian or cardboard and leave for a few months & you have a
garden.

rob

The video on this page is a laugh. The joker mows his leaves up to make
mulch TWICE. He mows them TWICE. Roftl. Once is more than adequate. Twice
is just wasting time you could be on the couch with newspaper or snoozing.

http://www.wikihow.com/Find-Inexpensive-Mulch

Let me explain a little further.

The joker mows up his leaves. He opens the catcher and explains that the
leaves are somewhat mulched up.

He then explains that he will mow them again.

Eh?

He wants them mulched up finer.

Why?

He spreads them on his drive way and mows them up again.

By that point my leaves are on the garden & I am on the sofa with a nice cup
of tea & the newspaper.

rob

"George.com" wrote in message news:h5bfs1

I'd not bother with the plastic and instead cover the area with cardboard
or old felt carpet underlay. Whatever comes free and second hand. A carpet
layer will often have second hand hessian underlay they are happy to part
with for free.

Coffee grounds, food scraps, leaves, grass clippings. Chuck it all on top
of the hessian or cardboard and leave for a few months & you have a
garden.

I think this system works even better if you chuck all thos things under the
free top layer. I like to let the worms get at it and do a lot of work for
me. But then my soil is rotten and hard and wormless so I also dig up some
worms from my veg garden, dig a tiny bit of soil so thye at least have some
soil cover and then do what you describe.

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 13:58:38 +1000, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote:

"George.com" wrote in message news:h5bfs1

I'd not bother with the plastic and instead cover the area with cardboard
or old felt carpet underlay. Whatever comes free and second hand. A carpet
layer will often have second hand hessian underlay they are happy to part
with for free.

Coffee grounds, food scraps, leaves, grass clippings. Chuck it all on top
of the hessian or cardboard and leave for a few months & you have a
garden.

I think this system works even better if you chuck all thos things under the
free top layer. I like to let the worms get at it and do a lot of work for
me. But then my soil is rotten and hard and wormless so I also dig up some
worms from my veg garden, dig a tiny bit of soil so thye at least have some
soil cover and then do what you describe.


hmmmm.......doh. This makes good sense, in that the worms don't have
to chew thru the cardboard/hessian/whatever before they begin to work.

Same weed reduction results, but faster soil improvement results.

Thanks for the idea, Wormwrangler.

Charlie

I would suggest that you first lay down your soil amendments (manure,
rock phosphate, potassiun [wood ash, what ever]), then your cardboard,
or newsprint, and then cover that unsightly mess with the mulch of your
choice (I prefer alfalfa), then if you want to go full gonzo, spread
some green manure seeds (I'd go with rye or buckwheat to condition the
soil [make it looser], or some legumes to add more nitrogen to the soil).
In any event, the worms will thank you for it.
--
Racial injustice, war, urban blight, and environmental rape have a common denominator in our exploitative economic system.
~Channing E. Phillips

http://tinyurl.com/o63ruj
http://countercurrents.org/roberts020709.htm

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 23:27:51 -0700, Billy
wrote:

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 13:58:38 +1000, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote:

"George.com" wrote in message news:h5bfs1

I'd not bother with the plastic and instead cover the area with
cardboard
or old felt carpet underlay. Whatever comes free and second hand. A
carpet
layer will often have second hand hessian underlay they are happy to
part
with for free.

Coffee grounds, food scraps, leaves, grass clippings. Chuck it all on
top
of the hessian or cardboard and leave for a few months & you have a
garden.

I think this system works even better if you chuck all thos things under
the
free top layer. I like to let the worms get at it and do a lot of work
for
me. But then my soil is rotten and hard and wormless so I also dig up
some
worms from my veg garden, dig a tiny bit of soil so thye at least have
some
soil cover and then do what you describe.


hmmmm.......doh. This makes good sense, in that the worms don't have
to chew thru the cardboard/hessian/whatever before they begin to work.

Same weed reduction results, but faster soil improvement results.

Thanks for the idea, Wormwrangler.

Charlie

I would suggest that you first lay down your soil amendments (manure,
rock phosphate, potassiun [wood ash, what ever]), then your cardboard,
or newsprint, and then cover that unsightly mess with the mulch of your
choice (I prefer alfalfa), then if you want to go full gonzo, spread
some green manure seeds (I'd go with rye or buckwheat to condition the
soil [make it looser], or some legumes to add more nitrogen to the soil).
In any event, the worms will thank you for it.

No disagreement witcha on this and what I have done also, but my take
and thinking, after Fran's post, is lay down a good layer of worm bait
and food, such as cooked rice and pasta, veggie trimmings

May I see the wine list?;o)

, rotten
fruit and trimmings, etc., *under* the cardboard, with amendements, in
order to give the crawlers a head start on doing their business, and
then continue with the layering. Just a slight variation on the
procedure to which we subscribe.

No argument, but I doubt that worms would see much difference between
cardboard or newsprint vis-a-vis leaf mulch, or straw.


As far as the alfalfa, one needs to find the right balance perhaps. I
think parts of my garden suffered from alfalfa meal overdose this
year. At least I had what appeared to be nitrogen burn on some things
that I likely OD'd with too much alfalfa meal and blood meal.
Particularly in my potted mix.

I've had the same problems with alfalfa pellets, which I use in my
lettuce patch, but with a much lighter hand in pots now.
Manure Chicken Diary cow Horse Steer Alfalfa Fish Emulsion
N 1.1 .257 .70 .70 3 5
P .80 .15 .30 .30 1 1
K .50 .25 .60 .40 2 1
You can see that alfalfa is almost three times stronger in "N" than
chook doo.

I still use it (pellets) in the lettuce, and carrots because I don't
want to bury the plants under mulch. Otherwise, I've never had a problem
with baled alfalfa as a mulch.

Charlie

The tomatoes are starting to come around, producing a little more each
day. Koralic came in first, followed by Stupice. Everything else is very
green.

Happy to report that we no longer need to put on music for dinner. The
crickets arrived two nights ago. With the stair lights on, it is nearly
magical outside in the evening. (We eat late.)
--
Racial injustice, war, urban blight, and environmental rape have a common denominator in our exploitative economic system.
~Channing E. Phillips

http://tinyurl.com/o63ruj
http://countercurrents.org/roberts020709.htm

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article , Charlie wrote:

On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 23:27:51 -0700, Billy
wrote:

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 13:58:38 +1000, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote:

"George.com" wrote in message news:h5bfs1

I'd not bother with the plastic and instead cover the area with
cardboard
or old felt carpet underlay. Whatever comes free and second hand. A
carpet
layer will often have second hand hessian underlay they are happy
to
part
with for free.

Coffee grounds, food scraps, leaves, grass clippings. Chuck it all
on
top
of the hessian or cardboard and leave for a few months & you have a
garden.

I think this system works even better if you chuck all thos things
under
the
free top layer. I like to let the worms get at it and do a lot of
work
for
me. But then my soil is rotten and hard and wormless so I also dig
up
some
worms from my veg garden, dig a tiny bit of soil so thye at least
have
some
soil cover and then do what you describe.


hmmmm.......doh. This makes good sense, in that the worms don't have
to chew thru the cardboard/hessian/whatever before they begin to work.

Same weed reduction results, but faster soil improvement results.

Thanks for the idea, Wormwrangler.

Charlie

I would suggest that you first lay down your soil amendments (manure,
rock phosphate, potassiun [wood ash, what ever]), then your cardboard,
or newsprint, and then cover that unsightly mess with the mulch of your
choice (I prefer alfalfa), then if you want to go full gonzo, spread
some green manure seeds (I'd go with rye or buckwheat to condition the
soil [make it looser], or some legumes to add more nitrogen to the
soil).
In any event, the worms will thank you for it.

No disagreement witcha on this and what I have done also, but my take
and thinking, after Fran's post, is lay down a good layer of worm bait
and food, such as cooked rice and pasta, veggie trimmings

May I see the wine list?;o)

, rotten
fruit and trimmings, etc., *under* the cardboard, with amendements,

I think the operative word, Billy, in my suggestion was 'chuck'. I could
substitute it with the word 'bung' to try and reflect the approach I am
taking.

No just 'do nothing gardening', but 'close enough is good enough gardening'.

rob

Charlie wrote in message
On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 13:58:38 +1000, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote:

I think this system works even better if you chuck all thos things under
the
free top layer. I like to let the worms get at it and do a lot of work
for
me. But then my soil is rotten and hard and wormless so I also dig up
some
worms from my veg garden, dig a tiny bit of soil so thye at least have
some
soil cover and then do what you describe.


hmmmm.......doh. This makes good sense, in that the worms don't have
to chew thru the cardboard/hessian/whatever before they begin to work.

Same weed reduction results, but faster soil improvement results.

Thanks for the idea, Wormwrangler.

Lazy Cow is another name I'm quite prepared to answer to. I don't see why I
should do something if all those tireless wee wrigglers will do a lot of the
soil prep for me.

Charlie wrote in message

As far as the alfalfa, one needs to find the right balance perhaps. I
think parts of my garden suffered from alfalfa meal overdose this
year. At least I had what appeared to be nitrogen burn on some things
that I likely OD'd with too much alfalfa meal and blood meal.

Charlie I often use lucerne (alfalfa) straw as a mulch but I notice in
another post that you refer to alfalfa pellets.

Can you buy lucerne (alfalfa) in bales such as you'd feed to a horse as this
stuff is magnificent as a mulch. Or even if you could buy it in the chaff
form should also be good. It's ideal for gardens but not for cattle. My
old lecturer when I was doing a farm animal production course used to say
that feeding lucerne to cows was like feeding chocolate to children.

On Fri, 7 Aug 2009 23:05:31 +1000, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote:

Charlie wrote in message

As far as the alfalfa, one needs to find the right balance perhaps. I
think parts of my garden suffered from alfalfa meal overdose this
year. At least I had what appeared to be nitrogen burn on some things
that I likely OD'd with too much alfalfa meal and blood meal.

Charlie I often use lucerne (alfalfa) straw as a mulch but I notice in
another post that you refer to alfalfa pellets.

Can you buy lucerne (alfalfa) in bales such as you'd feed to a horse as this
stuff is magnificent as a mulch. Or even if you could buy it in the chaff
form should also be good. It's ideal for gardens but not for cattle. My
old lecturer when I was doing a farm animal production course used to say
that feeding lucerne to cows was like feeding chocolate to children.

Do you happen to know when you harvest alfalfa? After reading about it
here, I decided to grow it in bare patches. Some is about 18" tall and
blooming.

Kate

In article ,
"George.com" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article , Charlie wrote:

On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 23:27:51 -0700, Billy
wrote:

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 13:58:38 +1000, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote:

"George.com" wrote in message news:h5bfs1

I'd not bother with the plastic and instead cover the area with
cardboard
or old felt carpet underlay. Whatever comes free and second hand. A
carpet
layer will often have second hand hessian underlay they are happy
to
part
with for free.

Coffee grounds, food scraps, leaves, grass clippings. Chuck it all
on
top
of the hessian or cardboard and leave for a few months & you have a
garden.

I think this system works even better if you chuck all thos things
under
the
free top layer. I like to let the worms get at it and do a lot of
work
for
me. But then my soil is rotten and hard and wormless so I also dig
up
some
worms from my veg garden, dig a tiny bit of soil so thye at least
have
some
soil cover and then do what you describe.


hmmmm.......doh. This makes good sense, in that the worms don't have
to chew thru the cardboard/hessian/whatever before they begin to work.

Same weed reduction results, but faster soil improvement results.

Thanks for the idea, Wormwrangler.

Charlie

I would suggest that you first lay down your soil amendments (manure,
rock phosphate, potassiun [wood ash, what ever]), then your cardboard,
or newsprint, and then cover that unsightly mess with the mulch of your
choice (I prefer alfalfa), then if you want to go full gonzo, spread
some green manure seeds (I'd go with rye or buckwheat to condition the
soil [make it looser], or some legumes to add more nitrogen to the
soil).
In any event, the worms will thank you for it.

No disagreement witcha on this and what I have done also, but my take
and thinking, after Fran's post, is lay down a good layer of worm bait
and food, such as cooked rice and pasta, veggie trimmings

May I see the wine list?;o)

, rotten
fruit and trimmings, etc., *under* the cardboard, with amendements,

I think the operative word, Billy, in my suggestion was 'chuck'. I could
substitute it with the word 'bung' to try and reflect the approach I am
taking.

No just 'do nothing gardening', but 'close enough is good enough gardening'.

rob

It's just Mr. Occam and his razor again. No sense making anything more
difficult than it has to be. But tell me again, why is Chuck underneath
the Hessian with a bung? All sounds rather "kinky" to this country boy.
Must be what comes from spending your life up-side down ;O)
--
Racial injustice, war, urban blight, and environmental rape have a common denominator in our exploitative economic system.*
~Channing E. Phillips

http://tinyurl.com/o63ruj
http://countercurrents.org/roberts020709.htm

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 09:46:32 -0700, Billy
wrote:

In article ,
"George.com" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article , Charlie wrote:

On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 23:27:51 -0700, Billy
wrote:

In article , Charlie
wrote:

On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 13:58:38 +1000, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote:

"George.com" wrote in message news:h5bfs1

I'd not bother with the plastic and instead cover the area with
cardboard
or old felt carpet underlay. Whatever comes free and second hand.
A
carpet
layer will often have second hand hessian underlay they are happy
to
part
with for free.

Coffee grounds, food scraps, leaves, grass clippings. Chuck it
all
on
top
of the hessian or cardboard and leave for a few months & you have
a
garden.

I think this system works even better if you chuck all thos things
under
the
free top layer. I like to let the worms get at it and do a lot of
work
for
me. But then my soil is rotten and hard and wormless so I also dig
up
some
worms from my veg garden, dig a tiny bit of soil so thye at least
have
some
soil cover and then do what you describe.


hmmmm.......doh. This makes good sense, in that the worms don't
have
to chew thru the cardboard/hessian/whatever before they begin to
work.

Same weed reduction results, but faster soil improvement results.

Thanks for the idea, Wormwrangler.

Charlie

I would suggest that you first lay down your soil amendments (manure,
rock phosphate, potassiun [wood ash, what ever]), then your cardboard,
or newsprint, and then cover that unsightly mess with the mulch of
your
choice (I prefer alfalfa), then if you want to go full gonzo, spread
some green manure seeds (I'd go with rye or buckwheat to condition the
soil [make it looser], or some legumes to add more nitrogen to the
soil).
In any event, the worms will thank you for it.

No disagreement witcha on this and what I have done also, but my take
and thinking, after Fran's post, is lay down a good layer of worm bait
and food, such as cooked rice and pasta, veggie trimmings

May I see the wine list?;o)

, rotten
fruit and trimmings, etc., *under* the cardboard, with amendements,

I think the operative word, Billy, in my suggestion was 'chuck'. I could
substitute it with the word 'bung' to try and reflect the approach I am
taking.

No just 'do nothing gardening', but 'close enough is good enough
gardening'.

rob

It's just Mr. Occam and his razor again. No sense making anything more
difficult than it has to be. But tell me again, why is Chuck underneath
the Hessian with a bung? All sounds rather "kinky" to this country boy.
Must be what comes from spending your life up-side down ;O)

Dammit, Billy, I done tolja ta quit callin' me Chuck!!!

And it's a damned log I'm *tryin* to stay under, not some effing
German mercenary and they ain't no bungin' involved, of any sort, you
old effer!!!

*Charlie*.....not Chuck

What's up . . . err, hmmm?
--
Racial injustice, war, urban blight, and environmental rape have a common denominator in our exploitative economic system.
~Channing E. Phillips

http://tinyurl.com/o63ruj
http://countercurrents.org/roberts020709.htm

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Fri, 7 Aug 2009 23:05:31 +1000, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote:

Charlie wrote in message

As far as the alfalfa, one needs to find the right balance perhaps. I
think parts of my garden suffered from alfalfa meal overdose this
year. At least I had what appeared to be nitrogen burn on some things
that I likely OD'd with too much alfalfa meal and blood meal.

Charlie I often use lucerne (alfalfa) straw as a mulch but I notice in
another post that you refer to alfalfa pellets.

Can you buy lucerne (alfalfa) in bales such as you'd feed to a horse as this
stuff is magnificent as a mulch. Or even if you could buy it in the chaff
form should also be good. It's ideal for gardens but not for cattle. My
old lecturer when I was doing a farm animal production course used to say
that feeding lucerne to cows was like feeding chocolate to children.


I'm unable to find small bales locally this year, at least ones that
aren't contracted or weedy as hell, and don't feel like driving thirty
odd miles for a few bales. Most producers and farmers are now baling
in the 1500 lb round bales. A bit unruly to wrestle into my small
garden. ;-) I'm using chopped leaves and old moldy straw this year
for mulch.

I use alfalfa pellets and meal in potting mix and incorporated in
compost and the mulch. Meal sounds like the chaff you mention. Meal
is ground alfalfa which has the consistency of,
say....hmmmm......wheat germ, and is good for incorporation or as a
slurry with water in compost (thanks to catdaddy, gets a heap
smokin'), but I find tends to form a crust when used as mulch.

CHalrie

No feed stores that sell in bales? 1500 lbs is a lot to buy all at once.
Bales I get must weigh 50 lbs or so.
--
Racial injustice, war, urban blight, and environmental rape have a common denominator in our exploitative economic system.
~Channing E. Phillips

http://tinyurl.com/o63ruj
http://countercurrents.org/roberts020709.htm