Soon I'll be moving, and while I will take a few of my smaller
Japanese maples etc. and put them in part of the front yard, I am
thinking I want most of my yard to be populated by
critter-friendly plants--ones that provide food, nesting
spots/shelter for birds and beasts. Currently the large back yard
is rather barren, with pines at the back and toward the side, so I
have a decent amount of open space to chip away at. Depending on
where I plant, and the things I put in eventually providing shade,
most of this will be in sun or partial sun. I don't think that
area is arid or particularly moist. I am in the Boston area and
like to allow for all contingencies, so I generally plant things
that are for zone 4. Fairly carefree but not horribly invasive
would be pluses.

I am starting a list of possible plants but wonder whether folks
here have some recommendations. Sites and books would also be
most welcome. Thanks!
--
Jean B.

Jean B. wrote:
Soon I'll be moving, and while I will take a few of my smaller Japanese
maples etc. and put them in part of the front yard, I am thinking I want
most of my yard to be populated by critter-friendly plants--ones that
provide food, nesting spots/shelter for birds and beasts. Currently the
large back yard is rather barren, with pines at the back and toward the
side, so I have a decent amount of open space to chip away at.
Depending on where I plant, and the things I put in eventually providing
shade, most of this will be in sun or partial sun. I don't think that
area is arid or particularly moist. I am in the Boston area and like to
allow for all contingencies, so I generally plant things that are for
zone 4. Fairly carefree but not horribly invasive would be pluses.

I am starting a list of possible plants but wonder whether folks here
have some recommendations. Sites and books would also be most welcome.
Thanks!


Oh, ps, I should add that I do not want to use pesticides and
herbicides.

--
Jean B.

On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 17:34:21 -0500, "Jean B." wrote:

Soon I'll be moving, and while I will take a few of my smaller
Japanese maples etc. and put them in part of the front yard, I am
thinking I want most of my yard to be populated by
critter-friendly plants--ones that provide food, nesting
spots/shelter for birds and beasts. Currently the large back yard
is rather barren, with pines at the back and toward the side, so I
have a decent amount of open space to chip away at. Depending on
where I plant, and the things I put in eventually providing shade,
most of this will be in sun or partial sun. I don't think that
area is arid or particularly moist. I am in the Boston area and
like to allow for all contingencies, so I generally plant things
that are for zone 4. Fairly carefree but not horribly invasive
would be pluses.

I am starting a list of possible plants but wonder whether folks
here have some recommendations. Sites and books would also be
most welcome. Thanks!

You really ought to live there at least a year before doing any major
planting. Spend your first season planting foundation shurubs, you're
not likely going to want to move those. In your zone spruce trees are
a safe bet, and spruce is deer proof. But I'd wait on shade trees
until you get a feel for where the sun strikes, how the ground drains,
and have a chance to think about any structural additions like
fencing, sheds, and even adding a room... and you'll need time for
planning in case you want a vegetable garden, fruit trees, and berry
bushes, etc.

"brooklyn1" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 17:34:21 -0500, "Jean B." wrote:

Soon I'll be moving, and while I will take a few of my smaller
Japanese maples etc. and put them in part of the front yard, I am
thinking I want most of my yard to be populated by
critter-friendly plants--ones that provide food, nesting
spots/shelter for birds and beasts. Currently the large back yard
is rather barren, with pines at the back and toward the side, so I
have a decent amount of open space to chip away at. Depending on
where I plant, and the things I put in eventually providing shade,
most of this will be in sun or partial sun. I don't think that
area is arid or particularly moist. I am in the Boston area and
like to allow for all contingencies, so I generally plant things
that are for zone 4. Fairly carefree but not horribly invasive
would be pluses.

I am starting a list of possible plants but wonder whether folks
here have some recommendations. Sites and books would also be
most welcome. Thanks!

You really ought to live there at least a year before doing any major
planting. Spend your first season planting foundation shurubs, you're
not likely going to want to move those. In your zone spruce trees are
a safe bet, and spruce is deer proof. But I'd wait on shade trees
until you get a feel for where the sun strikes, how the ground drains,
and have a chance to think about any structural additions like
fencing, sheds, and even adding a room... and you'll need time for
planning in case you want a vegetable garden, fruit trees, and berry
bushes, etc.

Super idea and I agree. Wait until you've lived in your new home
to make sure the lay of the land sort of thing.

I would recommend raspberries if there's a variety for your
Zone. Not only do you get fresh berry for jellies and pies, but
come fall the stalks make a good place for small bird to gather
and eat oatmeal, corn etc. Mine let me know about it if they
go without breakfast!

Donna
in WA

"Jean B." wrote in message
...
Soon I'll be moving, and while I will take a few of my smaller Japanese
maples etc. and put them in part of the front yard, I am thinking I want
most of my yard to be populated by critter-friendly plants--ones that
provide food, nesting spots/shelter for birds and beasts. Currently the
large back yard is rather barren, with pines at the back and toward the
side, so I have a decent amount of open space to chip away at. Depending
on where I plant, and the things I put in eventually providing shade, most
of this will be in sun or partial sun. I don't think that area is arid or
particularly moist. I am in the Boston area and like to allow for all
contingencies, so I generally plant things that are for zone 4. Fairly
carefree but not horribly invasive would be pluses.

I am starting a list of possible plants but wonder whether folks here have
some recommendations. Sites and books would also be most welcome.
Thanks!

Can't help with specific plants but here in Oz, the way to encourage
wildlife is to think in layers like ground hugging, understorey, middle
layer and tree canopy and some fallen material like logs where lizards can
shelter. 'Course that's always dangerous if you don't want snakes, but it
is good for lizards, small marsupials, birds and middle sized animals. The
middle layer and canpoy should enclude a mix of open foliage for the bigger
birds and close coverage where the little birds can hide from the bigger
birds who like them for breakfast. Do you have a local birdwatching group
that may have site information for those who want to encourage birds? The
same things that many birds like is also what other fauna aften likes.

brooklyn1 wrote:
On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 17:34:21 -0500, "Jean B." wrote:

Soon I'll be moving, and while I will take a few of my smaller
Japanese maples etc. and put them in part of the front yard, I am
thinking I want most of my yard to be populated by
critter-friendly plants--ones that provide food, nesting
spots/shelter for birds and beasts. Currently the large back yard
is rather barren, with pines at the back and toward the side, so I
have a decent amount of open space to chip away at. Depending on
where I plant, and the things I put in eventually providing shade,
most of this will be in sun or partial sun. I don't think that
area is arid or particularly moist. I am in the Boston area and
like to allow for all contingencies, so I generally plant things
that are for zone 4. Fairly carefree but not horribly invasive
would be pluses.

I am starting a list of possible plants but wonder whether folks
here have some recommendations. Sites and books would also be
most welcome. Thanks!

You really ought to live there at least a year before doing any major
planting. Spend your first season planting foundation shurubs, you're
not likely going to want to move those. In your zone spruce trees are
a safe bet, and spruce is deer proof. But I'd wait on shade trees
until you get a feel for where the sun strikes, how the ground drains,
and have a chance to think about any structural additions like
fencing, sheds, and even adding a room... and you'll need time for
planning in case you want a vegetable garden, fruit trees, and berry
bushes, etc.

Thanks for the reminder. I KNOW that is the reasonable approach,
and it is what I have done before. I am just so eager.... And
working on the level of privacy in some areas would be nice.

--
Jean B.

Lelandite wrote:
"brooklyn1" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 17:34:21 -0500, "Jean B." wrote:

Soon I'll be moving, and while I will take a few of my smaller
Japanese maples etc. and put them in part of the front yard, I am
thinking I want most of my yard to be populated by
critter-friendly plants--ones that provide food, nesting
spots/shelter for birds and beasts. Currently the large back yard
is rather barren, with pines at the back and toward the side, so I
have a decent amount of open space to chip away at. Depending on
where I plant, and the things I put in eventually providing shade,
most of this will be in sun or partial sun. I don't think that
area is arid or particularly moist. I am in the Boston area and
like to allow for all contingencies, so I generally plant things
that are for zone 4. Fairly carefree but not horribly invasive
would be pluses.

I am starting a list of possible plants but wonder whether folks
here have some recommendations. Sites and books would also be
most welcome. Thanks!
You really ought to live there at least a year before doing any major
planting. Spend your first season planting foundation shurubs, you're
not likely going to want to move those. In your zone spruce trees are
a safe bet, and spruce is deer proof. But I'd wait on shade trees
until you get a feel for where the sun strikes, how the ground drains,
and have a chance to think about any structural additions like
fencing, sheds, and even adding a room... and you'll need time for
planning in case you want a vegetable garden, fruit trees, and berry
bushes, etc.

Super idea and I agree. Wait until you've lived in your new home
to make sure the lay of the land sort of thing.

I would recommend raspberries if there's a variety for your
Zone. Not only do you get fresh berry for jellies and pies, but
come fall the stalks make a good place for small bird to gather
and eat oatmeal, corn etc. Mine let me know about it if they
go without breakfast!

Donna
in WA


I should observe how the birds are using such thickets in this
yard. Good idea!

--
Jean B.

FarmI wrote:
"Jean B." wrote in message
...
Soon I'll be moving, and while I will take a few of my smaller Japanese
maples etc. and put them in part of the front yard, I am thinking I want
most of my yard to be populated by critter-friendly plants--ones that
provide food, nesting spots/shelter for birds and beasts. Currently the
large back yard is rather barren, with pines at the back and toward the
side, so I have a decent amount of open space to chip away at. Depending
on where I plant, and the things I put in eventually providing shade, most
of this will be in sun or partial sun. I don't think that area is arid or
particularly moist. I am in the Boston area and like to allow for all
contingencies, so I generally plant things that are for zone 4. Fairly
carefree but not horribly invasive would be pluses.

I am starting a list of possible plants but wonder whether folks here have
some recommendations. Sites and books would also be most welcome.
Thanks!

Can't help with specific plants but here in Oz, the way to encourage
wildlife is to think in layers like ground hugging, understorey, middle
layer and tree canopy and some fallen material like logs where lizards can
shelter. 'Course that's always dangerous if you don't want snakes, but it
is good for lizards, small marsupials, birds and middle sized animals. The
middle layer and canpoy should enclude a mix of open foliage for the bigger
birds and close coverage where the little birds can hide from the bigger
birds who like them for breakfast. Do you have a local birdwatching group
that may have site information for those who want to encourage birds? The
same things that many birds like is also what other fauna aften likes.

Nice to see you here, too! :-)

I have a friend who is an avid bird-watcher, so I can ask her for
guidance. I have become somewhat aware of the layering, but I
should put together a cohesive plan to achieve that.

Maybe you don't think I'd be crazy to start a brush pile!
--
Jean B.

On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 08:58:29 -0500, "Jean B." wrote:

brooklyn1 wrote:
On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 17:34:21 -0500, "Jean B." wrote:

Soon I'll be moving, and while I will take a few of my smaller
Japanese maples etc. and put them in part of the front yard, I am
thinking I want most of my yard to be populated by
critter-friendly plants--ones that provide food, nesting
spots/shelter for birds and beasts. Currently the large back yard
is rather barren, with pines at the back and toward the side, so I
have a decent amount of open space to chip away at. Depending on
where I plant, and the things I put in eventually providing shade,
most of this will be in sun or partial sun. I don't think that
area is arid or particularly moist. I am in the Boston area and
like to allow for all contingencies, so I generally plant things
that are for zone 4. Fairly carefree but not horribly invasive
would be pluses.

I am starting a list of possible plants but wonder whether folks
here have some recommendations. Sites and books would also be
most welcome. Thanks!

You really ought to live there at least a year before doing any major
planting. Spend your first season planting foundation shurubs, you're
not likely going to want to move those. In your zone spruce trees are
a safe bet, and spruce is deer proof. But I'd wait on shade trees
until you get a feel for where the sun strikes, how the ground drains,
and have a chance to think about any structural additions like
fencing, sheds, and even adding a room... and you'll need time for
planning in case you want a vegetable garden, fruit trees, and berry
bushes, etc.

Thanks for the reminder. I KNOW that is the reasonable approach,
and it is what I have done before. I am just so eager.... And
working on the level of privacy in some areas would be nice.

In your zone right now is a good time to check the nurseries for sale
items, especially the big box stores, where often plants are slashed
50% and more this late in the season... even if you aren't sure where
to plant you can heel them in pot and all until spring.

On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 09:02:22 -0500, "Jean B." wrote:

FarmI wrote:
"Jean B." wrote in message
...
Soon I'll be moving, and while I will take a few of my smaller Japanese
maples etc. and put them in part of the front yard, I am thinking I want
most of my yard to be populated by critter-friendly plants--ones that
provide food, nesting spots/shelter for birds and beasts. Currently the
large back yard is rather barren, with pines at the back and toward the
side, so I have a decent amount of open space to chip away at. Depending
on where I plant, and the things I put in eventually providing shade, most
of this will be in sun or partial sun. I don't think that area is arid or
particularly moist. I am in the Boston area and like to allow for all
contingencies, so I generally plant things that are for zone 4. Fairly
carefree but not horribly invasive would be pluses.

I am starting a list of possible plants but wonder whether folks here have
some recommendations. Sites and books would also be most welcome.
Thanks!

Can't help with specific plants but here in Oz, the way to encourage
wildlife is to think in layers like ground hugging, understorey, middle
layer and tree canopy and some fallen material like logs where lizards can
shelter. 'Course that's always dangerous if you don't want snakes, but it
is good for lizards, small marsupials, birds and middle sized animals. The
middle layer and canpoy should enclude a mix of open foliage for the bigger
birds and close coverage where the little birds can hide from the bigger
birds who like them for breakfast. Do you have a local birdwatching group
that may have site information for those who want to encourage birds? The
same things that many birds like is also what other fauna aften likes.

Nice to see you here, too! :-)

I have a friend who is an avid bird-watcher, so I can ask her for
guidance. I have become somewhat aware of the layering, but I
should put together a cohesive plan to achieve that.

Maybe you don't think I'd be crazy to start a brush pile!

Without knowing the size of your property and it's terrain it's
difficult to make specific suggestions as to type of plants, but you
might consider spending this winter perusing the various on-line
resources and make a list of those plants in each catagory that appeal
to you and will fit within the constraints of your property (also a
good idea to take notice of your neighbor's plantings with focus on
what parts of your property they shade. For example you may like
Norway spruce and sycamore but those are only suitable for very large
areas, like at least 5 acres... even if they will fit on an acre they
won't look very attractive all squished in... and I wouldn't plant
any trees in a location that were they to fall they could hit your
house... and think about plant roots, you don't want them invading
your foundation/septic. Don't let those tiny nursery plants fool you,
they grow. Also not knowing your age makes it difficult to suggest
what age plants and their growth rates you should be considering... it
makes little sense for someone say over fifty to be planting saplings
and expect to sit in their shade. Then it may be best to purchase
larger/older specimens and pay to have the nursery plant them... even
those listed as fast growing trees don't really grow all that fast...
a typical red maple sapling can take 30 years to become a shade
tree... and you kinda hafta cut growth rate claims by half, they
assume the most ideal conditions, they don't account for poor growth
years; droughts, floods, wind/ice storms... an early hard frost can
easily set a tree back 3-4 years growth. I'd leave the small saplings
and tiny bare root trees for the cash strapped youngsters... you need
to weigh the dollars saved against the years lost.

brooklyn1 wrote:
On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 08:58:29 -0500, "Jean B." wrote:

brooklyn1 wrote:
On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 17:34:21 -0500, "Jean B." wrote:

Soon I'll be moving, and while I will take a few of my smaller
Japanese maples etc. and put them in part of the front yard, I am
thinking I want most of my yard to be populated by
critter-friendly plants--ones that provide food, nesting
spots/shelter for birds and beasts. Currently the large back yard
is rather barren, with pines at the back and toward the side, so I
have a decent amount of open space to chip away at. Depending on
where I plant, and the things I put in eventually providing shade,
most of this will be in sun or partial sun. I don't think that
area is arid or particularly moist. I am in the Boston area and
like to allow for all contingencies, so I generally plant things
that are for zone 4. Fairly carefree but not horribly invasive
would be pluses.

I am starting a list of possible plants but wonder whether folks
here have some recommendations. Sites and books would also be
most welcome. Thanks!
You really ought to live there at least a year before doing any major
planting. Spend your first season planting foundation shurubs, you're
not likely going to want to move those. In your zone spruce trees are
a safe bet, and spruce is deer proof. But I'd wait on shade trees
until you get a feel for where the sun strikes, how the ground drains,
and have a chance to think about any structural additions like
fencing, sheds, and even adding a room... and you'll need time for
planning in case you want a vegetable garden, fruit trees, and berry
bushes, etc.
Thanks for the reminder. I KNOW that is the reasonable approach,
and it is what I have done before. I am just so eager.... And
working on the level of privacy in some areas would be nice.

In your zone right now is a good time to check the nurseries for sale
items, especially the big box stores, where often plants are slashed
50% and more this late in the season... even if you aren't sure where
to plant you can heel them in pot and all until spring.


I was at one this morning--mostly to get a free-standing bird
feeder. I was thinking it looked very barren, but I didn't
venture up the side where they stash the trees. I will do so.

I have a few here that I haven't planted because I knew I'd be
moving. Another few that I just put in mulch, again because I
knew I was moving. Plus a few small ones that are planted--one
inappropriately (they apparently didn't loosen the material around
the root ball) and a few so near the walk that they will probably
be ruined by the movers.

I guess I should deal with those first. But yes, this is a great
time for sales on plants, so I will see what's around.

--
Jean B.

brooklyn1 wrote:
On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 09:02:22 -0500, "Jean B." wrote:

FarmI wrote:
"Jean B." wrote in message
...
Soon I'll be moving, and while I will take a few of my smaller Japanese
maples etc. and put them in part of the front yard, I am thinking I want
most of my yard to be populated by critter-friendly plants--ones that
provide food, nesting spots/shelter for birds and beasts. Currently the
large back yard is rather barren, with pines at the back and toward the
side, so I have a decent amount of open space to chip away at. Depending
on where I plant, and the things I put in eventually providing shade, most
of this will be in sun or partial sun. I don't think that area is arid or
particularly moist. I am in the Boston area and like to allow for all
contingencies, so I generally plant things that are for zone 4. Fairly
carefree but not horribly invasive would be pluses.

I am starting a list of possible plants but wonder whether folks here have
some recommendations. Sites and books would also be most welcome.
Thanks!
Can't help with specific plants but here in Oz, the way to encourage
wildlife is to think in layers like ground hugging, understorey, middle
layer and tree canopy and some fallen material like logs where lizards can
shelter. 'Course that's always dangerous if you don't want snakes, but it
is good for lizards, small marsupials, birds and middle sized animals. The
middle layer and canpoy should enclude a mix of open foliage for the bigger
birds and close coverage where the little birds can hide from the bigger
birds who like them for breakfast. Do you have a local birdwatching group
that may have site information for those who want to encourage birds? The
same things that many birds like is also what other fauna aften likes.

Nice to see you here, too! :-)

I have a friend who is an avid bird-watcher, so I can ask her for
guidance. I have become somewhat aware of the layering, but I
should put together a cohesive plan to achieve that.

Maybe you don't think I'd be crazy to start a brush pile!

Without knowing the size of your property and it's terrain it's
difficult to make specific suggestions as to type of plants, but you
might consider spending this winter perusing the various on-line
resources and make a list of those plants in each catagory that appeal
to you and will fit within the constraints of your property (also a
good idea to take notice of your neighbor's plantings with focus on
what parts of your property they shade. For example you may like
Norway spruce and sycamore but those are only suitable for very large
areas, like at least 5 acres... even if they will fit on an acre they
won't look very attractive all squished in... and I wouldn't plant
any trees in a location that were they to fall they could hit your
house... and think about plant roots, you don't want them invading
your foundation/septic. Don't let those tiny nursery plants fool you,
they grow. Also not knowing your age makes it difficult to suggest
what age plants and their growth rates you should be considering... it
makes little sense for someone say over fifty to be planting saplings
and expect to sit in their shade. Then it may be best to purchase
larger/older specimens and pay to have the nursery plant them... even
those listed as fast growing trees don't really grow all that fast...
a typical red maple sapling can take 30 years to become a shade
tree... and you kinda hafta cut growth rate claims by half, they
assume the most ideal conditions, they don't account for poor growth
years; droughts, floods, wind/ice storms... an early hard frost can
easily set a tree back 3-4 years growth. I'd leave the small saplings
and tiny bare root trees for the cash strapped youngsters... you need
to weigh the dollars saved against the years lost.


Yup. I am big on researching plants and have begun to do so.

I am torn between larger and smaller plants having read that
sometimes the smaller ones will do better and thus catch up to
some degree with the larger ones.

I will be 60 in January. I guess that is a factor to some degree.
I'd like to have some nice views in my lifetime. OTOH, I also
believe in planting for the future--even the distant future. I am
reminded of this when I drive by the house I lived in when I was a
kid. My dad planted some red maples, and they are now nice trees.
The big oaks that were there have mostly come down, so it is
very lucky he looked ahead.

--
Jean B.

"Jean B." wrote in message
FarmI wrote:
"Jean B." wrote in message
...
Soon I'll be moving, and while I will take a few of my smaller Japanese
maples etc. and put them in part of the front yard, I am thinking I want
most of my yard to be populated by critter-friendly plants--ones that
provide food, nesting spots/shelter for birds and beasts. Currently the
large back yard is rather barren, with pines at the back and toward the
side, so I have a decent amount of open space to chip away at.
Depending on where I plant, and the things I put in eventually providing
shade, most of this will be in sun or partial sun. I don't think that
area is arid or particularly moist. I am in the Boston area and like to
allow for all contingencies, so I generally plant things that are for
zone 4. Fairly carefree but not horribly invasive would be pluses.

I am starting a list of possible plants but wonder whether folks here
have some recommendations. Sites and books would also be most welcome.
Thanks!

Can't help with specific plants but here in Oz, the way to encourage
wildlife is to think in layers like ground hugging, understorey, middle
layer and tree canopy and some fallen material like logs where lizards
can shelter. 'Course that's always dangerous if you don't want snakes,
but it is good for lizards, small marsupials, birds and middle sized
animals. The middle layer and canpoy should enclude a mix of open
foliage for the bigger birds and close coverage where the little birds
can hide from the bigger birds who like them for breakfast. Do you have
a local birdwatching group that may have site information for those who
want to encourage birds? The same things that many birds like is also
what other fauna aften likes.
Nice to see you here, too! :-)

You too :-)) I noted your name but didn't know if you chose to acknowledge
our aquaintance out of context.

I have a friend who is an avid bird-watcher, so I can ask her for
guidance. I have become somewhat aware of the layering, but I should put
together a cohesive plan to achieve that.

Do a hunt on terms like permaculture, layering and wildlife in google on US
sites and that may give you some ideas. If that doesn't work I know I have
a seen a number of Oz ones which explain the concept as it applies to farms
(for biodiversity reasons) and, although the plants would be different, and
the concept applicable to broad acreage, there is no reason why the same
hting couldn't be applied to a yard - let me kno wif you'd like me to do a
hunt for you and provide cites.

Maybe you don't think I'd be crazy to start a brush pile!

Nope, not at all. Even I have a brush pile which given our snake problem, I
know I probably shouldn't.

"Jean B." wrote in message

I am torn between larger and smaller plants having read that sometimes the
smaller ones will do better and thus catch up to some degree with the
larger ones.

We have foudn that oaks grown from acorns grow like stink if watered in our
hot summers. We also planted a windbreak last spring of tube stock (at
least 500 plants) about a ft high for the biggest and this summer some of
them are already about 4 ft high. They were all Oz natives though so that
may not be a lot of help.

I will be 60 in January. I guess that is a factor to some degree.

It sure is! We too think about how long trees will take to grow, but there
is a Japanese poem of which I am fond which says it all (although I can't
remeber the line splits so you'll just have to put them in yourself):

'A man truly understands the meaning of life when he plants a shade tree
under which he knows he will not sit.'

I'd like to have some nice views in my lifetime. OTOH, I also believe in
planting for the future--even the distant future. I am reminded of this
when I drive by the house I lived in when I was a kid. My dad planted
some red maples, and they are now nice trees. The big oaks that were there
have mostly come down, so it is very lucky he looked ahead.

He truly understood the meaning of life.

I once saw a tv program dealing with yard habitat. Came away with the
idea that diverse heights in plants have something for everyone. So
have grass, scrubs, small and large trees and they will come. Can be
appealing to humans too.

Here is a site that touches on water as well.

http://www.eastbaynature.com/habitat.htm

Bill

--
Spam http://www.leraysvillecheese.com/ Many stars
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA