Just wondering if anyone has a way to kill/control weeds? I have
tried every herbicide they sell at Lowe's and still can't seem to kill
the dang things. They always die initially but by the end of the week
are alive again.

Do they make "neutralizers" -- sprays that kill everything? And can I
spray it and still plant some seedlings in MAy-June?

chen;876470]Just wondering if anyone has a way to kill/control weeds? I have
tried every herbicide they sell at Lowe's and still can't seem to kill
the dang things. They always die initially but by the end of the week
are alive again.

Do they make "neutralizers" -- sprays that kill everything? And can I
spray it and still plant some seedlings in MAy-June?

what kind of weeds are they
where are they located--sunny or shaded area???
have u tried digging them out and then mulching fairly heavily or have u
tried mulching at all
what about putting heat to them by cutting them back and then covering them with heavy black plastic and leaving it there for a few months have u
tried this

the more information u can give us chen would be great and
maybe we might be able to help u.
cyaaaaaaaaaa, sockiescat

On 2/3/2010 3:38 AM, chen wrote:
Just wondering if anyone has a way to kill/control weeds? I have
tried every herbicide they sell at Lowe's and still can't seem to kill
the dang things. They always die initially but by the end of the week
are alive again.

Do they make "neutralizers" -- sprays that kill everything? And can I
spray it and still plant some seedlings in MAy-June?

Have you tried Roundup? It should kill everything, but it might require
more than one treatment for woody plants (e.g., shrubs, trees). It is
safe to plant in the ground after about a week. Just be sure you
thoroughly clean the sprayer before using it for something else.

However, when I say "It should kill everything", I'm beginning to have
doubts. Monsanto (the developer of Roundup) has also developed
genetically engineered crops that are resistant to Roundup. This allows
the use of Roundup to control weeds competing with those crops. It is
known that pollen from such crops has spread and contaminated other
related crops, making them unfit for export to nations that prohibit the
use of genetic engineering in their food supplies. Thus, it is possible
that pollen from Roundup-resistent plants has also contaminated related
weeds (e.g., wild relatives of grains), making them resistent to Roundup.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean
Sunset Zone: 21 -- interior Santa Monica Mountains with some ocean
influence (USDA 10a, very close to Sunset Zone 19)
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

In article ,
"David E. Ross" wrote:

On 2/3/2010 3:38 AM, chen wrote:
Just wondering if anyone has a way to kill/control weeds? I have
tried every herbicide they sell at Lowe's and still can't seem to kill
the dang things. They always die initially but by the end of the week
are alive again.

Do they make "neutralizers" -- sprays that kill everything? And can I
spray it and still plant some seedlings in MAy-June?

Have you tried Roundup? It should kill everything, but it might require
more than one treatment for woody plants (e.g., shrubs, trees). It is
safe to plant in the ground after about a week. Just be sure you
thoroughly clean the sprayer before using it for something else.

However, when I say "It should kill everything", I'm beginning to have
doubts. Monsanto (the developer of Roundup) has also developed
genetically engineered crops that are resistant to Roundup. This allows
the use of Roundup to control weeds competing with those crops. It is
known that pollen from such crops has spread and contaminated other
related crops, making them unfit for export to nations that prohibit the
use of genetic engineering in their food supplies. Thus, it is possible
that pollen from Roundup-resistent plants has also contaminated related
weeds (e.g., wild relatives of grains), making them resistent to Roundup.

Some people like their neighbors and the planet, others don't.

Which are you?

Human and mammalian health effects
[edit]
Toxicity
By 2000, a review published in a Monsanto sponsored journal,[11]
conducted by Ian C. Munro (a member of the Cantox scientific and
regulatory consulting firm whose role is defined as to "protect client
interests while helping our clients achieve milestones and bring
products to market"[12]) concluded that "under present and expected
conditions of new use, there is no potential for Roundup herbicide to
pose a health risk to humans".[13] Monsanto uses that study as the main
source to support Roundup safety for humans.[14]
A 2008 scientific study has shown that Roundup formulations and
metabolic products cause the death of human embryonic, placental, and
umbilical cells in vitro, even at low concentrations. The effects were
not proportional to the main active ingredient concentrations
(glyphosate), but dependent on the nature of the adjuvants used in the
Roundup formulation.[15]
Deliberate ingestion of Roundup in quantities ranging from 85-200 ml has
resulted in death within hours of ingestion, although it has also been
ingested in quantities as large as 500ml with only mild or moderate
symptoms following ingestion.[16] There is a reasonable correlation
between the amount of Roundup ingested and the likelihood of serious
systemic sequelae or death. Ingestion of 85 mL of the concentrated
formulation is likely to cause significant toxicity in adults.
Gastrointestinal corrosive effects, with mouth, throat and epigastric
pain and dysphagia are common. Renal and hepatic impairment are also
frequent and usually reflect reduced organ perfusion. Respiratory
distress, impaired consciousness, pulmonary oedema, infiltration on
chest x-ray, shock, arrythmias, renal failure requiring haemodialysis,
metabolic acidosis and hyperkalaemia may supervene in severe cases.
Bradycardia and ventricular arrhythmias are often present
pre-terminally. Dermal exposure to ready-to-use glyphosate formulations
can cause irritation, and photo-contact dermatitis has been reported
occasionally; these effects are probably due to the preservative Proxel
(benzisothiazolin-3-one). Severe skin burns are very rare. Inhalation is
a minor route of exposure, but spray mist may cause oral or nasal
discomfort, an unpleasant taste in the mouth, tingling and throat
irritation. Eye exposure may lead to mild conjunctivitis, and
superficial corneal injury is possible if irrigation is delayed or
inadequate.[10]
[edit]
Endocrine disruptor
A 2000 in vitro study on mouse MA-10 cells concluded that Roundup
inhibited progesterone production by disrupting StAR protein
expression.[17]
A 2005 in vitro study on human placental JEG3 cells concluded that the
glyphosate disruption of aromatase is facilitated by adjuvants of the
Roundup formulation.[18]
A 2009 in vitro experiment with glyphosate formulations on human liver
HepG2 cells has observed endocrine disruption at sub-agricultural doses,
where a Roundup formulation showed to be the most active formulation.
The effects were more dependent on the formulation than on the
glyphosate concentration.[19]
A 2009 study on rats has found that Roundup is a potent endocrine
disruptor causing disturbances in the reproductive development when the
exposure was performed during the puberty period.[20]
[edit]
Genetic damage
A 1998 study on mice concluded that Roundup is able to cause genetic
damage. The authors concluded that the damage was "not related to the
active ingredient, but to another component of the herbicide
mixture".[21]
A 2005 study raised concerns over the effects of Roundup in
transcription.[22]
A 2009 study on mice has found that a single intraperitoneal injection
of Roundup in concentration of 25*mg/kg caused chromosomal aberrations
and induction of micronuclei.[23]
A 2009 in vitro experiment with glyphosate formulations on human liver
cells has observed DNA damages at sub-agricultural doses, where a
Roundup formulation showed to be the most active formulation. The
effects were more dependent on the formulation than on the glyphosate
concentration.[19]
[edit]
Ecologic effects
A 2000 review of the toxicological data on Roundup concluded that "for
terrestrial uses of Roundup minimal acute and chronic risk was predicted
for potentially exposed nontarget organisms". It also concluded that
there were some risks to aquatic organisms exposed to Roundup in shallow
water.[24]
[edit]
Toxicity
A 2009 study has concluded that while physiological pH decreases
glyphosate uptake in animal cells Roundup formulation contains
surfactants that increases membrane permeability allowing cellular
uptake at physiological pH.[8]
[edit]
Aquatic effects
Fish and aquatic invertebrates are more sensitive to Roundup than
terrestrial organisms.[24] Glyphosate is generally less persistent in
water than in soil, with 12 to 60 day persistence observed in Canadian
pond water, yet persistence of over a year have been observed in the
sediments of ponds in Michigan and Oregon.[9]
The EU classifies Roundup as R51/53 Toxic to aquatic organisms, may
cause long-term adverse effects in the aquatic environment.[25]
Although Roundup is not registered for aquatic uses[26] and studies of
its effects on amphibians indicate it is toxic to them,[27] scientists
have found that it may wind up in small wetlands where tadpoles live,
due to inadvertent spraying during its application. A recent study found
that even at concentrations one-third of the maximum concentrations
expected in nature, Roundup still killed up to 71 percent of tadpoles
raised in outdoor tanks.[28]
[edit]
Environmental degradation and effects
When glyphosate comes into contact with the soil, it can be rapidly
bound to soil particles and be inactivated.[9] Unbound glyphosate can be
degraded by bacteria.[29] Glyphosphate has been shown to increase the
infection rate of wheat by fusarium head blight in fields that have been
treated with glyphosphate.[30] A 2009 study using a RoundUp formulation
has concluded that absorption into plants delays subsequent
soil-degradation, and can increase glyphosate persistence in soil from
two to six times.[31]
In soils, half lives vary from as little as 3 days at a site in Texas,
to as much as 141 days at a site in Iowa[32]. In addition, the
glyphosate metabolite aminomethylphosphonic acid was shown to persist up
to 2 years in Swedish forest soils.[33].
A recent study concluded that certain amphibians may be at risk from
glyphosate use.[34] One study has shown an effect on growth and survival
of earthworms.[35] The results of this study are in conflict with other
data, and have been criticized on methodological grounds.[24] In other
studies, nitrogen fixing bacteria have been impaired, and also crop
plant susceptibility to disease has been
increased.[30][36][37][38][39][40][41]
[edit]
False advertising and scientific fraud
[edit]
False advertising
In 1996, Monsanto was accused of false and misleading advertising of
glyphosate products, prompting a law suit by the New York State attorney
general.[42] Monsanto had made claims that its spray-on glyphosate based
herbicides, including Roundup, were safer than table salt and
"practically non-toxic" to mammals, birds, and fish.[43]
Environmental and consumer rights campaigners brought a case in France
in 2001 for presenting Roundup as biodegradable and claiming that it
left the soil clean after use; glyphosate, Roundup's main ingredient, is
classed by the European Union as "dangerous for the environment" and
"toxic for aquatic organisms". In January 2007, Monsanto was convicted
of false advertising.[44] The result was confirmed in 2009.[45]
[edit]
Scientific fraud
On two occasions, the United States Environmental Protection Agency has
caught scientists deliberately falsifying test results at research
laboratories hired by Monsanto to study glyphosate.[46][47][48] In the
first incident involving Industrial Biotest Laboratories, an EPA
reviewer stated after finding "routine falsification of data" that it
was "hard to believe the scientific integrity of the studies when they
said they took specimens of the uterus from male rabbits".[49][50][51]
In the second incident of falsifying test results in 1991, the owner of
the lab (Craven Labs), and three employees were indicted on 20 felony
counts, the owner was sentenced to 5 years in prison and fined 50,000
dollars, the lab was fined 15.5 million dollars and ordered to pay 3.7
million dollars in restitution.[32][52][53] Craven laboratories
performed studies for 262 pesticide companies including Monsanto.
Monsanto has stated that the studies have been repeated, and that
Roundup's EPA certification does not now use any studies from Craven
Labs or IBT. Monsanto also said that the Craven Labs investigation was
started by the EPA after a pesticide industry task force discovered
irregularities.[54]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundup...health_effects

http://healthychild.org/issues/chemical-pop/glyphosate/

http://www.percyschmeiser.com/Toxic.htm


You can also cover the area that you want weeded with newspaper, and put
mulch on top of the paper.

Lastly, one man's weed is another man's herb. Find out what you are
trying to kill first.

Dandelions, for example, make nutritious salads.

Stinging Nettles are high in A and C vitamins, and iron, as well as
being useful in treating asthma. An infusion of the fresh leaves is
healing and soothing as a lotion for burns and the root has been shown
to have a beneficial effect upon enlarged prostate glands.

Purslane has the highest content of omega3 of any land plant.

And the list goes on and on.

Once having identified one of your weeds, go to
http://www.pfaf.org/database/index.php
to determine if it can be of use to you.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100119/...ting_activists
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/1/19/headlines

chen wrote:

Just wondering if anyone has a way to kill/control weeds?

If a fancy schmancy lawn there are specific weed control products,
otherwise MULCH!


I have
tried every herbicide they sell at Lowe's and still can't seem to kill
the dang things. They always die initially but by the end of the week
are alive again.

Do they make "neutralizers" -- sprays that kill everything? And can I
spray it and still plant some seedlings in MAy-June?

On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 03:38:41 -0800 (PST), chen
wrote:

Just wondering if anyone has a way to kill/control weeds? I have
tried every herbicide they sell at Lowe's and still can't seem to kill
the dang things. They always die initially but by the end of the week
are alive again.

Do they make "neutralizers" -- sprays that kill everything? And can I
spray it and still plant some seedlings in MAy-June?

Have you identified the weed in question? Are these weeds in a lawn?
Can you pull them out?

On Feb 4, 7:00*am, Phisherman wrote:
On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 03:38:41 -0800 (PST), chen
wrote:

Just wondering if anyone has a way to kill/control weeds? *I have
tried every herbicide they sell at Lowe's and still can't seem to kill
the dang things. *They always die initially but by the end of the week
are alive again.

Do they make "neutralizers" -- sprays that kill everything? And can I
spray it and still plant some seedlings in MAy-June?

Have you identified the weed in question? *Are these weeds in a lawn?
Can you pull them out?

Suspect troll or just plain stupid.
People post things like, "I have a car, black with four wheels. What
spark plugs should I use?"

On Feb 3, 11:18*am, Wildbilly wrote:
In article ,
*"David E. Ross" wrote:



On 2/3/2010 3:38 AM, chen wrote:
Just wondering if anyone has a way to kill/control weeds? *I have
tried every herbicide they sell at Lowe's and still can't seem to kill
the dang things. *They always die initially but by the end of the week
are alive again.

Do they make "neutralizers" -- sprays that kill everything? And can I
spray it and still plant some seedlings in MAy-June?

Have you tried Roundup? *It should kill everything, but it might require
more than one treatment for woody plants (e.g., shrubs, trees). *It is
safe to plant in the ground after about a week. *Just be sure you
thoroughly clean the sprayer before using it for something else.

However, when I say "It should kill everything", I'm beginning to have
doubts. *Monsanto (the developer of Roundup) has also developed
genetically engineered crops that are resistant to Roundup. *This allows
the use of Roundup to control weeds competing with those crops. *It is
known that pollen from such crops has spread and contaminated other
related crops, making them unfit for export to nations that prohibit the
use of genetic engineering in their food supplies. *Thus, it is possible
that pollen from Roundup-resistent plants has also contaminated related
weeds (e.g., wild relatives of grains), making them resistent to Roundup.

Some people like their neighbors and the planet, others don't.

Which are you?

Human and mammalian health effects
[edit]
Toxicity
By 2000, a review published in a Monsanto sponsored journal,[11]
conducted by Ian C. Munro (a member of the Cantox scientific and
regulatory consulting firm whose role is defined as to "protect client
interests while helping our clients achieve milestones and bring
products to market"[12]) concluded that "under present and expected
conditions of new use, there is no potential for Roundup herbicide to
pose a health risk to humans".[13] Monsanto uses that study as the main
source to support Roundup safety for humans.[14]
A 2008 scientific study has shown that Roundup formulations and
metabolic products cause the death of human embryonic, placental, and
umbilical cells in vitro, even at low concentrations. The effects were
not proportional to the main active ingredient concentrations
(glyphosate), but dependent on the nature of the adjuvants used in the
Roundup formulation.[15]
Deliberate ingestion of Roundup in quantities ranging from 85-200 ml has
resulted in death within hours of ingestion, although it has also been
ingested in quantities as large as 500ml with only mild or moderate
symptoms following ingestion.[16] There is a reasonable correlation
between the amount of Roundup ingested and the likelihood of serious
systemic sequelae or death. Ingestion of 85 mL of the concentrated
formulation is likely to cause significant toxicity in adults.
Gastrointestinal corrosive effects, with mouth, throat and epigastric
pain and dysphagia are common. Renal and hepatic impairment are also
frequent and usually reflect reduced organ perfusion. Respiratory
distress, impaired consciousness, pulmonary oedema, infiltration on
chest x-ray, shock, arrythmias, renal failure requiring haemodialysis,
metabolic acidosis and hyperkalaemia may supervene in severe cases.
Bradycardia and ventricular arrhythmias are often present
pre-terminally. Dermal exposure to ready-to-use glyphosate formulations
can cause irritation, and photo-contact dermatitis has been reported
occasionally; these effects are probably due to the preservative Proxel
(benzisothiazolin-3-one). Severe skin burns are very rare. Inhalation is
a minor route of exposure, but spray mist may cause oral or nasal
discomfort, an unpleasant taste in the mouth, tingling and throat
irritation. Eye exposure may lead to mild conjunctivitis, and
superficial corneal injury is possible if irrigation is delayed or
inadequate.[10]
[edit]
Endocrine disruptor
A 2000 in vitro study on mouse MA-10 cells concluded that Roundup
inhibited progesterone production by disrupting StAR protein
expression.[17]
A 2005 in vitro study on human placental JEG3 cells concluded that the
glyphosate disruption of aromatase is facilitated by adjuvants of the
Roundup formulation.[18]
A 2009 in vitro experiment with glyphosate formulations on human liver
HepG2 cells has observed endocrine disruption at sub-agricultural doses,
where a Roundup formulation showed to be the most active formulation.
The effects were more dependent on the formulation than on the
glyphosate concentration.[19]
A 2009 study on rats has found that Roundup is a potent endocrine
disruptor causing disturbances in the reproductive development when the
exposure was performed during the puberty period.[20]
[edit]
Genetic damage
A 1998 study on mice concluded that Roundup is able to cause genetic
damage. The authors concluded that the damage was "not related to the
active ingredient, but to another component of the herbicide
mixture".[21]
A 2005 study raised concerns over the effects of Roundup in
transcription.[22]
A 2009 study on mice has found that a single intraperitoneal injection
of Roundup in concentration of 25*mg/kg caused chromosomal aberrations
and induction of micronuclei.[23]
A 2009 in vitro experiment with glyphosate formulations on human liver
cells has observed DNA damages at sub-agricultural doses, where a
Roundup formulation showed to be the most active formulation. The
effects were more dependent on the formulation than on the glyphosate
concentration.[19]
[edit]
Ecologic effects
A 2000 review of the toxicological data on Roundup concluded that "for
terrestrial uses of Roundup minimal acute and chronic risk was predicted
for potentially exposed nontarget organisms". It also concluded that
there were some risks to aquatic organisms exposed to Roundup in shallow
water.[24]
[edit]
Toxicity
A 2009 study has concluded that while physiological pH decreases
glyphosate uptake in animal cells Roundup formulation contains
surfactants that increases membrane permeability allowing cellular
uptake at physiological pH.[8]
[edit]
Aquatic effects
Fish and aquatic invertebrates are more sensitive to Roundup than
terrestrial organisms.[24] Glyphosate is generally less persistent in
water than in soil, with 12 to 60 day persistence observed in Canadian
pond water, yet persistence of over a year have been observed in the
sediments of ponds in Michigan and Oregon.[9]
The EU classifies Roundup as R51/53 Toxic to aquatic organisms, may
cause long-term adverse effects in the aquatic environment.[25]
Although Roundup is not registered for aquatic uses[26] and studies of
its effects on amphibians indicate it is toxic to them,[27] scientists
have found that it may wind up in small wetlands where tadpoles live,
due to inadvertent spraying during its application. A recent study found
that even at concentrations one-third of the maximum concentrations
expected in nature, Roundup still killed up to 71 percent of tadpoles
raised in outdoor tanks.[28]
[edit]
Environmental degradation and effects
When glyphosate comes into contact with the soil, it can be rapidly
bound to soil particles and be inactivated.[9] Unbound glyphosate can be
degraded by bacteria.[29] Glyphosphate has been shown to increase the
infection rate of wheat by fusarium head blight in fields that have been
treated with glyphosphate.[30] A 2009 study using a RoundUp formulation
has concluded that absorption into plants delays subsequent
soil-degradation, and can increase glyphosate persistence in soil from
two to six times.[31]
In soils, half lives vary from as little as 3 days at a site in Texas,
to as much as 141 days at a site in Iowa[32]. In addition, the
glyphosate metabolite aminomethylphosphonic acid was shown to persist up
to 2 years in Swedish forest soils.[33].
A recent study concluded that certain amphibians may be at risk from
glyphosate use.[34] One study has shown an effect on growth and survival
of earthworms.[35] The results of this study are in conflict with other
data, and have been criticized on methodological grounds.[24] In other
studies, nitrogen fixing bacteria have been impaired, and also crop
plant susceptibility to disease has been
increased.[30][36][37][38][39][40][41]
[edit]
False advertising and scientific fraud
[edit]
False advertising
In 1996, Monsanto was accused of false and misleading advertising of
glyphosate products, prompting a law suit by the New York State attorney
general.[42] Monsanto had made claims that its spray-on glyphosate based
herbicides, including Roundup, were safer than table salt and
"practically non-toxic" to mammals, birds, and fish.[43]
Environmental and consumer rights campaigners brought a case in France
in 2001 for presenting Roundup as biodegradable and claiming that it
left the soil clean after use; glyphosate, Roundup's main ingredient, is
classed by the European Union as "dangerous for the environment" and
"toxic for aquatic organisms". In January 2007, Monsanto was convicted
of false advertising.[44] The result was confirmed in 2009.[45]
[edit]
Scientific fraud
On two occasions, the United States Environmental Protection Agency has
caught scientists deliberately falsifying test results at research
laboratories hired by Monsanto to study glyphosate.[46][47][48] In the
first incident involving Industrial Biotest Laboratories, an EPA
reviewer stated after finding "routine falsification of data" that it
was "hard to believe the scientific integrity of the studies when they
said they took specimens of the uterus from male rabbits".[49][50][51]
In the second incident of falsifying test results in 1991, the owner of
the lab (Craven Labs), and three employees were indicted on 20 felony
counts, the owner was sentenced to 5 years in prison and fined 50,000 ...

read more »

So glad you posted this. Monsanto is the most heartless monster you
could imagine . Ex: In developing countries, they find a way to keep
poor villagers from using their own wells!! Make them buy water! When
they can't even feed their children! This was investigated in an
issue of Mother Jones several years ago. Beyond shocking! And of
course their iron control over seeds is an old scandal. They maneuver
farmers into buying their hybrid seed so
farmers cannot propagate their own seed and have to keep buying. Feh!

On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 03:38:41 -0800 (PST), chen
wrote:

Just wondering if anyone has a way to kill/control weeds? I have
tried every herbicide they sell at Lowe's and still can't seem to kill
the dang things. They always die initially but by the end of the week
are alive again.

Do they make "neutralizers" -- sprays that kill everything? And can I
spray it and still plant some seedlings in MAy-June?


Yes they make kill-alls, but that's about all I know about it.

And, if you want one that will kill and go away, that's much harder.

Of course, no matter what you use, weeds will come back, new seeds
arrive, sprout, and grow - fast! That's half of what makes them
successful weeds! It will be next to impossible to clear an area if
there are weeds just a few feet away. In my area, dandelions colonize
and grow to significant size in a week or two, no matter what.

If all else fails, how about you dig out a fair patch of soil, mulch
it seriously off in a corner somewhere, and refill with clean soil?

--

I was actually going to ask here more about tips and techniques for
hand-weeding, say, while standing up, rather than stooping and pulling
- which I fear, remains the gold standard!

J.