In article ,
says...

I have been out of work for over two years now when my company downsized
in this poor economy. Times are tough and going to get a whole lot
tougher for sure! I'm very lucky in the respect that I'm 61 years old
and only have one more year to go till I can retire on social security.
That is if that program is still in existence a year from now. Guess
what I'm really trying to say is: help your neighbor out a little if
you can. I'm planting way more vegetables in the garden this spring
than my wife and I could ever use. The reason being, I want to be able
to do what I can to help out other less fortunate people in this dire
time of need. I plan to put a folding table near the curb on my front
lawn and fill it with fresh veggies each day. I'll also have some saved
grocery bags on the table and a sign that says FREE ......PLEASE TAKE
WHAT YOU NEED BUT REMEMBER OTHERS MAY BE IN NEED TOO! With unemployment
being as it is, I would imagine the veggie table will be quite a hit in
the neighborhood. It may be truly appreciated by some, others will
take advantage and some will won't care either way. This won't deter
me one bit. Why? Because I know In my heart that I'm doing the right
thing. We all need to help each other right now if we can because the
government sure don't give a shit about any of the once middle class
population!!!
May sound like a crazy idea to some but I was just brought up that way
when neighbors still helped neighbors


I would never do something like that. It would lead to being
personally marked as "always" having a surplus, which I would
"owe" to people, with zero understanding that I had worked for
the extra food. Many people blow things out of proportion, and
have an amazing sense of entitlement.

If I wanted to donate food, I would do so via a food bank, soup
kitchen, shelter, etc.

This isn't about being "selfish." It's about having healthy
boundaries. I have learned to sort of depersonalise any
generosity, because so many prospective recipients just have no
limits to what they expect, demand, and feel entitled to from me.

Several years ago, I had a next-door neighbour who repeatedly
started conversations by pointing out the alleged surplus of food
in the very small container garden I had at the time. She was
directly trying to get me to "admit" to having far more than I
could possibly eat before it spoiled. So of course it wouldn't
be any sacrifice for me to hand it over. This was the only
subject she seemed interested in bringing up, except for
mentioning her overall self-pity about her financial/housing
situation, having just entered the adult world of jobs and bills
and responsibility (poor baby.)

That was part of a more general problem with her and another
neighbour (an obnoxious divorced housewife) in that building who
perceived me as generally having more resources than them.
Including the fact that I actually get off the couch and do stuff
on the weekends, rather than sit around whining like them. They
both eventually became openly hostile about my refusal to be used
as a personal servant and sugar-mommy. The above-described
individual actually told other neighbours that she had considered
physically damaging my plants as revenge for refusing to be
personal "friends" with her.

And, no, there wasn't really any surplus. And no, I didn't
really have more resources than them, except for more willingness
to work at something.


--
Get Credit Where Credit Is Due
http://www.cardreport.com/
Credit Tools, Reference, and Forum

That's very true about some people expecting all they can get at another
persons expense. I'm sure I won't see any of the neighbors in my yard
helping me to remove the sod for my new vegetable bed. That's too much
like work!

Rich

I think it's fantastic that you're doing such a selfless act and wish you all the best! I work for the RHS so it's always great to see people growing their own produce and encouraging others to do the same.

wrote:
Coffee's For Closers wrote:

I would never do something like that. It would lead to being
personally marked as "always" having a surplus, which I would
"owe" to people, with zero understanding that I had worked for
the extra food. Many people blow things out of proportion, and
have an amazing sense of entitlement.

If I wanted to donate food, I would do so via a food bank, soup
kitchen, shelter, etc.

This isn't about being "selfish." It's about having healthy
boundaries. I have learned to sort of depersonalise any
generosity, because so many prospective recipients just have no
limits to what they expect, demand, and feel entitled to from me.
LOL! As has been stated: "Deja vu, all over again". No more in-kind
donations for me. Frankly, I discovered years ago that "help your
neighbor out a little if you can" bizness requires closer acquaintace
with neighbors than I want!

I understand what you and CFC are saying but I have another situation. I
get on well with all my neighbours and we are as close as we want to be,
which varies but doesn't involve spending days at each other's house but
does include actually talking and interacting beyond superficial politeness.
We all help each other and give each other things. If somebody needs a lift
to town or to be towed out of a bog it is done, if somebody has excess veges
they give them away, if somebody has to do something and needs a child
minder such will be found.

There is no sense of entitlement nor of keeping score, nothing is given
grudgingly nor does anybody ask for too much. It's kind of nice.

David

In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

wrote:
Coffee's For Closers wrote:

I would never do something like that. It would lead to being
personally marked as "always" having a surplus, which I would
"owe" to people, with zero understanding that I had worked for
the extra food. Many people blow things out of proportion, and
have an amazing sense of entitlement.

If I wanted to donate food, I would do so via a food bank, soup
kitchen, shelter, etc.

This isn't about being "selfish." It's about having healthy
boundaries. I have learned to sort of depersonalise any
generosity, because so many prospective recipients just have no
limits to what they expect, demand, and feel entitled to from me.
LOL! As has been stated: "Deja vu, all over again". No more in-kind
donations for me. Frankly, I discovered years ago that "help your
neighbor out a little if you can" bizness requires closer acquaintace
with neighbors than I want!

I understand what you and CFC are saying but I have another situation. I
get on well with all my neighbours and we are as close as we want to be,
which varies but doesn't involve spending days at each other's house but
does include actually talking and interacting beyond superficial politeness.
We all help each other and give each other things. If somebody needs a lift
to town or to be towed out of a bog it is done, if somebody has excess veges
they give them away, if somebody has to do something and needs a child
minder such will be found.

There is no sense of entitlement nor of keeping score, nothing is given
grudgingly nor does anybody ask for too much. It's kind of nice.

David

Same as in my neighborhood which is in the country. I used to live in
the city, life is different in the city. In the country most of my
neighbors are close as one can get to self sufficiency. If something
fails in the country, the community will come and help. Most people in
the country are "jack of all trades". Sort of like the Amish
communities. In the country "Good deeds are rewarded".

The cities are like complex machines and much more efficient than in
those living in the country. One cog fails and the system grinds to a
halt, resulting in chaos. The cities require specialized trades to keep
the system going. When the chaos heats up it will be neighbor against
neighbor. If you give to your neighbor in the city, that specialized
neighbor will be dependent on you. In the city "No good deed goes
unpunished".

My worldly views... Dan

--
Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.

Dan L. wrote:
In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

wrote:
Coffee's For Closers wrote:

I would never do something like that. It would lead to being
personally marked as "always" having a surplus, which I would
"owe" to people, with zero understanding that I had worked for
the extra food. Many people blow things out of proportion, and
have an amazing sense of entitlement.

If I wanted to donate food, I would do so via a food bank, soup
kitchen, shelter, etc.

This isn't about being "selfish." It's about having healthy
boundaries. I have learned to sort of depersonalise any
generosity, because so many prospective recipients just have no
limits to what they expect, demand, and feel entitled to from me.
LOL! As has been stated: "Deja vu, all over again". No more in-kind
donations for me. Frankly, I discovered years ago that "help your
neighbor out a little if you can" bizness requires closer
acquaintace with neighbors than I want!

I understand what you and CFC are saying but I have another
situation. I get on well with all my neighbours and we are as close
as we want to be, which varies but doesn't involve spending days at
each other's house but does include actually talking and interacting
beyond superficial politeness. We all help each other and give each
other things. If somebody needs a lift to town or to be towed out
of a bog it is done, if somebody has excess veges they give them
away, if somebody has to do something and needs a child minder such
will be found.

There is no sense of entitlement nor of keeping score, nothing is
given grudgingly nor does anybody ask for too much. It's kind of
nice.

David

Same as in my neighborhood which is in the country. I used to live in
the city, life is different in the city. In the country most of my
neighbors are close as one can get to self sufficiency. If something
fails in the country, the community will come and help. Most people in
the country are "jack of all trades". Sort of like the Amish
communities. In the country "Good deeds are rewarded".

The cities are like complex machines and much more efficient than in
those living in the country. One cog fails and the system grinds to a
halt, resulting in chaos. The cities require specialized trades to
keep the system going. When the chaos heats up it will be neighbor
against neighbor. If you give to your neighbor in the city, that
specialized neighbor will be dependent on you. In the city "No good
deed goes unpunished".

My worldly views... Dan

I should have said explicitly that I am in a rural situation, these
neighbours are 400m or more apart in the main. Aside from the lack of
specialisation there is the time factor. You have time to talk. In the
city social interaction must be abbreviated because the pace is faster and
there are so many meetings in a day that you cannot afford more than a few
seconds on each one. Both contribute to failure to develop real communities
and to personal isolation. Humans like rats are not at their best in a rat
race. I think the contrast in views about charitable acts can be largely
traced to such differences in community structure.

David

On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 20:48:46 -0500, "Dan L."
wrote:

In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

wrote:
Coffee's For Closers wrote:

I would never do something like that. It would lead to being
personally marked as "always" having a surplus, which I would
"owe" to people, with zero understanding that I had worked for
the extra food. Many people blow things out of proportion, and
have an amazing sense of entitlement.

If I wanted to donate food, I would do so via a food bank, soup
kitchen, shelter, etc.

This isn't about being "selfish." It's about having healthy
boundaries. I have learned to sort of depersonalise any
generosity, because so many prospective recipients just have no
limits to what they expect, demand, and feel entitled to from me.
LOL! As has been stated: "Deja vu, all over again". No more in-kind
donations for me. Frankly, I discovered years ago that "help your
neighbor out a little if you can" bizness requires closer acquaintace
with neighbors than I want!

I understand what you and CFC are saying but I have another situation. I
get on well with all my neighbours and we are as close as we want to be,
which varies but doesn't involve spending days at each other's house but
does include actually talking and interacting beyond superficial politeness.
We all help each other and give each other things. If somebody needs a lift
to town or to be towed out of a bog it is done, if somebody has excess veges
they give them away, if somebody has to do something and needs a child
minder such will be found.

There is no sense of entitlement nor of keeping score, nothing is given
grudgingly nor does anybody ask for too much. It's kind of nice.

David

Same as in my neighborhood which is in the country. I used to live in
the city, life is different in the city. In the country most of my
neighbors are close as one can get to self sufficiency. If something
fails in the country, the community will come and help. Most people in
the country are "jack of all trades". Sort of like the Amish
communities. In the country "Good deeds are rewarded".

The cities are like complex machines and much more efficient than in
those living in the country. One cog fails and the system grinds to a
halt, resulting in chaos. The cities require specialized trades to keep
the system going. When the chaos heats up it will be neighbor against
neighbor. If you give to your neighbor in the city, that specialized
neighbor will be dependent on you. In the city "No good deed goes
unpunished".

My worldly views... Dan

I live in the city. There are good neighbors and not so good neighbors
everywhere, I suspect. I think what you project is often what you
receive.

I like giving.

In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Dan L. wrote:
In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

wrote:
Coffee's For Closers wrote:

I would never do something like that. It would lead to being
personally marked as "always" having a surplus, which I would
"owe" to people, with zero understanding that I had worked for
the extra food. Many people blow things out of proportion, and
have an amazing sense of entitlement.

If I wanted to donate food, I would do so via a food bank, soup
kitchen, shelter, etc.

This isn't about being "selfish." It's about having healthy
boundaries. I have learned to sort of depersonalise any
generosity, because so many prospective recipients just have no
limits to what they expect, demand, and feel entitled to from me.
LOL! As has been stated: "Deja vu, all over again". No more in-kind
donations for me. Frankly, I discovered years ago that "help your
neighbor out a little if you can" bizness requires closer
acquaintace with neighbors than I want!

I understand what you and CFC are saying but I have another
situation. I get on well with all my neighbours and we are as close
as we want to be, which varies but doesn't involve spending days at
each other's house but does include actually talking and interacting
beyond superficial politeness. We all help each other and give each
other things. If somebody needs a lift to town or to be towed out
of a bog it is done, if somebody has excess veges they give them
away, if somebody has to do something and needs a child minder such
will be found.

There is no sense of entitlement nor of keeping score, nothing is
given grudgingly nor does anybody ask for too much. It's kind of
nice.

David

Same as in my neighborhood which is in the country. I used to live in
the city, life is different in the city. In the country most of my
neighbors are close as one can get to self sufficiency. If something
fails in the country, the community will come and help. Most people in
the country are "jack of all trades". Sort of like the Amish
communities. In the country "Good deeds are rewarded".

The cities are like complex machines and much more efficient than in
those living in the country. One cog fails and the system grinds to a
halt, resulting in chaos. The cities require specialized trades to
keep the system going. When the chaos heats up it will be neighbor
against neighbor. If you give to your neighbor in the city, that
specialized neighbor will be dependent on you. In the city "No good
deed goes unpunished".

My worldly views... Dan

I should have said explicitly that I am in a rural situation, these
neighbours are 400m or more apart in the main. Aside from the lack of
specialisation there is the time factor. You have time to talk. In the
city social interaction must be abbreviated because the pace is faster and
there are so many meetings in a day that you cannot afford more than a few
seconds on each one. Both contribute to failure to develop real communities
and to personal isolation. Humans like rats are not at their best in a rat
race. I think the contrast in views about charitable acts can be largely
traced to such differences in community structure.

David

Wow! I have alway compared the human race to rats also.
I have always used the phrase "Humans breed like rats".

The future communications of the human race may be like in Isaac
Azimov's empire novels. The future may not have personal relationships
at all. Everyone will communicate with computers while the population
shrinks to zero. For those that communicate by computers may help in
population reduction. After all I am single, never married and no kids.
No rat breeding for us that communicate by computer! Now where did my
robot go.

Enjoy Life... Dan

--
Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.

In article ,
wrote:

On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 20:48:46 -0500, "Dan L."
wrote:

In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

wrote:
Coffee's For Closers wrote:

I would never do something like that. It would lead to being
personally marked as "always" having a surplus, which I would
"owe" to people, with zero understanding that I had worked for
the extra food. Many people blow things out of proportion, and
have an amazing sense of entitlement.

If I wanted to donate food, I would do so via a food bank, soup
kitchen, shelter, etc.

This isn't about being "selfish." It's about having healthy
boundaries. I have learned to sort of depersonalise any
generosity, because so many prospective recipients just have no
limits to what they expect, demand, and feel entitled to from me.
LOL! As has been stated: "Deja vu, all over again". No more in-kind
donations for me. Frankly, I discovered years ago that "help your
neighbor out a little if you can" bizness requires closer acquaintace
with neighbors than I want!

I understand what you and CFC are saying but I have another situation. I
get on well with all my neighbours and we are as close as we want to be,
which varies but doesn't involve spending days at each other's house but
does include actually talking and interacting beyond superficial
politeness.
We all help each other and give each other things. If somebody needs a
lift
to town or to be towed out of a bog it is done, if somebody has excess
veges
they give them away, if somebody has to do something and needs a child
minder such will be found.

There is no sense of entitlement nor of keeping score, nothing is given
grudgingly nor does anybody ask for too much. It's kind of nice.

David

Same as in my neighborhood which is in the country. I used to live in
the city, life is different in the city. In the country most of my
neighbors are close as one can get to self sufficiency. If something
fails in the country, the community will come and help. Most people in
the country are "jack of all trades". Sort of like the Amish
communities. In the country "Good deeds are rewarded".

The cities are like complex machines and much more efficient than in
those living in the country. One cog fails and the system grinds to a
halt, resulting in chaos. The cities require specialized trades to keep
the system going. When the chaos heats up it will be neighbor against
neighbor. If you give to your neighbor in the city, that specialized
neighbor will be dependent on you. In the city "No good deed goes
unpunished".

My worldly views... Dan

I live in the city. There are good neighbors and not so good neighbors
everywhere, I suspect. I think what you project is often what you
receive.
Not receive, taken! by others from those that live in the city.
You can have that delusional world called the "city"

I like giving.
Sounds like a preachers wife or goes to church in the hope of salvation.
Do you give because if you do not give, you will not be in Gods favor.

If you give and expect absolutely nothing in return, including salvation.
Then I have the highest respect and regards to you!

Enjoy Life... Dan

--
Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.

In article
,
"Dan L." wrote:


The future communications of the human race may be like in Isaac
Azimov's empire novels. The future may not have personal relationships
at all. Everyone will communicate with computers while the population
shrinks to zero. For those that communicate by computers may help in
population reduction. After all I am single, never married and no kids.
No rat breeding for us that communicate by computer! Now where did my
robot go.

Enjoy Life... Dan
You surly do not speak for me.

Sort of reminds me of Italian nobility circa 1500. They thought the
world was going south and decided not to breed. Now extinct.

I on the other hand have five kids. Age 25 to 35 but no grand kids yet
just two by marriage. If you look at my family 2 boys 1 girl we have 8
off spring. Wife side has 2 males and one female with 3 offspring.

One of the 8 passed early so we have 7 + 3 = 10 kids. This for 12
adults.
Our diminishment = 17%

So far 3 with 1 due grand kids.

Look at this movie sometime a comedy with a tidbit of truth.

http://www.amazon.com/Idiocracy-Luke...ref=sr_1_1?ie=
UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1267825859&sr=1-1

I sort of favor contrarian philosophies as the main stream seems
shallow and tied to the factory no beauty.

--
Billl Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 16:44:21 -0500, "Dan L."
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 20:48:46 -0500, "Dan L."
wrote:

In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

wrote:
Coffee's For Closers wrote:

I would never do something like that. It would lead to being
personally marked as "always" having a surplus, which I would
"owe" to people, with zero understanding that I had worked for
the extra food. Many people blow things out of proportion, and
have an amazing sense of entitlement.

If I wanted to donate food, I would do so via a food bank, soup
kitchen, shelter, etc.

This isn't about being "selfish." It's about having healthy
boundaries. I have learned to sort of depersonalise any
generosity, because so many prospective recipients just have no
limits to what they expect, demand, and feel entitled to from me.
LOL! As has been stated: "Deja vu, all over again". No more in-kind
donations for me. Frankly, I discovered years ago that "help your
neighbor out a little if you can" bizness requires closer acquaintace
with neighbors than I want!

I understand what you and CFC are saying but I have another situation. I
get on well with all my neighbours and we are as close as we want to be,
which varies but doesn't involve spending days at each other's house but
does include actually talking and interacting beyond superficial
politeness.
We all help each other and give each other things. If somebody needs a
lift
to town or to be towed out of a bog it is done, if somebody has excess
veges
they give them away, if somebody has to do something and needs a child
minder such will be found.

There is no sense of entitlement nor of keeping score, nothing is given
grudgingly nor does anybody ask for too much. It's kind of nice.

David

Same as in my neighborhood which is in the country. I used to live in
the city, life is different in the city. In the country most of my
neighbors are close as one can get to self sufficiency. If something
fails in the country, the community will come and help. Most people in
the country are "jack of all trades". Sort of like the Amish
communities. In the country "Good deeds are rewarded".

The cities are like complex machines and much more efficient than in
those living in the country. One cog fails and the system grinds to a
halt, resulting in chaos. The cities require specialized trades to keep
the system going. When the chaos heats up it will be neighbor against
neighbor. If you give to your neighbor in the city, that specialized
neighbor will be dependent on you. In the city "No good deed goes
unpunished".

My worldly views... Dan

I live in the city. There are good neighbors and not so good neighbors
everywhere, I suspect. I think what you project is often what you
receive.
Not receive, taken! by others from those that live in the city.
You can have that delusional world called the "city"

Granted, I would love to live in the country with lots of acres and
neighbors down the road apiece. "My yard" is full of trees and herbs
and flowers - one neighbor likes it because it looks country - another
hates it for the same reason.

I like giving.
Sounds like a preachers wife or goes to church in the hope of salvation.
Do you give because if you do not give, you will not be in Gods favor.

LOL! Last time I was in a church was for a funeral, a few years ago.
It's probably just a bad habit, as I'm not good at all at taking. And
there are too many "Gods" out there for me to try to win over.

If you give and expect absolutely nothing in return, including salvation.
Then I have the highest respect and regards to you!

I don't have a clue what salvation would look like, but I tend to
think it's a state of mind, not something that happens after we're
composting.

Enjoy Life... Dan

I do sometimes - same back at you.

In article ,
wrote:

On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 16:44:21 -0500, "Dan L."
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 20:48:46 -0500, "Dan L."
wrote:

In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

wrote:
Coffee's For Closers wrote:

I would never do something like that. It would lead to being
personally marked as "always" having a surplus, which I would
"owe" to people, with zero understanding that I had worked for
the extra food. Many people blow things out of proportion, and
have an amazing sense of entitlement.

If I wanted to donate food, I would do so via a food bank, soup
kitchen, shelter, etc.

This isn't about being "selfish." It's about having healthy
boundaries. I have learned to sort of depersonalise any
generosity, because so many prospective recipients just have no
limits to what they expect, demand, and feel entitled to from me.
LOL! As has been stated: "Deja vu, all over again". No more in-kind
donations for me. Frankly, I discovered years ago that "help your
neighbor out a little if you can" bizness requires closer acquaintace
with neighbors than I want!

I understand what you and CFC are saying but I have another situation.
I
get on well with all my neighbours and we are as close as we want to
be,
which varies but doesn't involve spending days at each other's house
but
does include actually talking and interacting beyond superficial
politeness.
We all help each other and give each other things. If somebody needs a
lift
to town or to be towed out of a bog it is done, if somebody has excess
veges
they give them away, if somebody has to do something and needs a child
minder such will be found.

There is no sense of entitlement nor of keeping score, nothing is given
grudgingly nor does anybody ask for too much. It's kind of nice.

David

Same as in my neighborhood which is in the country. I used to live in
the city, life is different in the city. In the country most of my
neighbors are close as one can get to self sufficiency. If something
fails in the country, the community will come and help. Most people in
the country are "jack of all trades". Sort of like the Amish
communities. In the country "Good deeds are rewarded".

The cities are like complex machines and much more efficient than in
those living in the country. One cog fails and the system grinds to a
halt, resulting in chaos. The cities require specialized trades to keep
the system going. When the chaos heats up it will be neighbor against
neighbor. If you give to your neighbor in the city, that specialized
neighbor will be dependent on you. In the city "No good deed goes
unpunished".

My worldly views... Dan

I live in the city. There are good neighbors and not so good neighbors
everywhere, I suspect. I think what you project is often what you
receive.
Not receive, taken! by others from those that live in the city.
You can have that delusional world called the "city"

Granted, I would love to live in the country with lots of acres and
neighbors down the road apiece. "My yard" is full of trees and herbs
and flowers - one neighbor likes it because it looks country - another
hates it for the same reason.

I like giving.
Sounds like a preachers wife or goes to church in the hope of salvation.
Do you give because if you do not give, you will not be in Gods favor.

LOL! Last time I was in a church was for a funeral, a few years ago.
It's probably just a bad habit, as I'm not good at all at taking. And
there are too many "Gods" out there for me to try to win over.

If you give and expect absolutely nothing in return, including salvation.
Then I have the highest respect and regards to you!

I don't have a clue what salvation would look like, but I tend to
think it's a state of mind, not something that happens after we're
composting.

Enjoy Life... Dan

I do sometimes - same back at you.

It amazes me how many people think alike here
My alter is my garden, always kneeling and using lots of holy water

Enjoy Life... Dan

--
Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.

In article ,
Bill who putters wrote:

In article
,
"Dan L." wrote:


The future communications of the human race may be like in Isaac
Azimov's empire novels. The future may not have personal relationships
at all. Everyone will communicate with computers while the population
shrinks to zero. For those that communicate by computers may help in
population reduction. After all I am single, never married and no kids.
No rat breeding for us that communicate by computer! Now where did my
robot go.

Enjoy Life... Dan

You surly do not speak for me.
I most surly do not speak for others. How about generalize.

Sort of reminds me of Italian nobility circa 1500. They thought the
world was going south and decided not to breed. Now extinct.
I think you are wrong here. There are lots of Italians in this world.
However, I will surly agree there no noble Italians in the world

I on the other hand have five kids. Age 25 to 35 but no grand kids yet
just two by marriage. If you look at my family 2 boys 1 girl we have 8
off spring. Wife side has 2 males and one female with 3 offspring.

One of the 8 passed early so we have 7 + 3 = 10 kids. This for 12
adults.
Our diminishment = 17%

So far 3 with 1 due grand kids.
If you want more grandkids - take their computers away!

Look at this movie sometime a comedy with a tidbit of truth.

http://www.amazon.com/Idiocracy-Luke...ref=sr_1_1?ie=
UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1267825859&sr=1-1
I will look for it and see if I can watch it on-demand for free first.

I sort of favor contrarian philosophies as the main stream seems
shallow and tied to the factory no beauty.
My favorite dictionary is "The Devil's Collection: A Cynic's Dictionary"
It's out of print. I am a skeptic and a cynic. A contrarian... maybe
Some definitions.
Children:
Items that have become so expensive, only the poor can have them.
Happiness:
An agreeable sensation arising from contemplating the misery of another.

Enjoy Life... Dan

--
Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.

Dan L. wrote:
I like giving.
Sounds like a preachers wife or goes to church in the hope of
salvation. Do you give because if you do not give, you will not be
in Gods favor.

LOL! Last time I was in a church was for a funeral, a few years ago.
It's probably just a bad habit, as I'm not good at all at taking. And
there are too many "Gods" out there for me to try to win over.

If you give and expect absolutely nothing in return, including
salvation. Then I have the highest respect and regards to you!

I don't have a clue what salvation would look like, but I tend to
think it's a state of mind, not something that happens after we're
composting.

Enjoy Life... Dan

I do sometimes - same back at you.

It amazes me how many people think alike here
My alter is my garden, always kneeling and using lots of holy water

Enjoy Life... Dan

Your own I hope.

D