On Jun 1, 10:40*pm, Billy wrote:
In article
,
*Harry K wrote:





On Jun 1, 8:29*pm, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
"Billy" wrote in message

...

In article
,
Harry K wrote:

On May 31, 7:44 pm, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
"John Gilmer" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
. au...
"John Gilmer" wrote in message
"Bob Noble" wrote in message
.. .
It looks more to me like that is a bridge used to support a big
pump
for some kind of irrigation. Note the pump in the middle with the
overhead to rise the pump.

I suspect that the "bridge" served to hold a "hydralic ram" which
uses
the velocity of the water to pump a small portion of the water to
the
level of the surrounding fields.

Nope. Hydraulic rams need a head of water above the pump so that the
water drops into the ram. - its the action of the water falling into
the
ram that makes the pumping happen.

Nope, yourself.

You just don't understand how a hydralic ram operates.

I do but I'd love to see a cite that would prove me wrong. I have a use
for
such a beast.

It uses the kinetic energy of a stream to raise a small portion of
water
well above the level of the stream.

A stream can certainly be used to do that with a hydraulic ram but the
stream must allow the water to drop into the ram not just flow past it
gently like the water does in a slow moving irrigation channel.

I'd certainly be very interested to see a pic of any hydraulic ram that
works as you say it will. I can't see how a slow moving stream can make
use of the water hammer effect that gives the 'ram' its name but I'd
certainly like to know more details. Can you post a cite please.- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The system I referred to sat right on the edge of the stream. *The
stream was a 'gentle one'. *The input pipe ran a distance up the
stream so I guess you could say 'dropping into the ram'. *Yes, there
has to be an elevation difference but there is no "dropping into the
ram' in any sense the normal person would use.

You could look it up on the 'net.

Harry K

Sorry Harry K but I'm tagging onto a response from Billy. *(Thanks Billy for
responding as otherwise I wouldn't have seen this) *I have not ever seen any
post from you Harry on this subject but your comment suggests that you have
written something on this before. *I have seen no other post from you other
than this reply from Billy.

As I mentioned earlier, a stream can indeed be used to operate a ram. *And
indeed it can be used in just the way you describe. *But as I also wrote
there MUST be a drop. *That drop does not have to be like a mini waterfall
immediatley above the ram. *It can as you mention come from a considerable
distance upstream (usually by pipe) to allow for the drop into the ram.
Any 'normal person' with half a brain cell should be able to figure out that
water flowing to a ram downstream from an intake pipe forms a 'drop'. *And a
'drop' there must be (at least there must be a drop unless they have
inveneted something new that no longer operate using water hammer
principles)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Aha. *The post I was replying to read like you were saying there had
to be something like a mini *waterfall.

I dunno why you can't see my post. *Perhaps you have me kill filed?

Harry K

And if you were an honorable man, you would give a citation to make your
point, instead of saying, "Go look it up." As it stands, it appears that
your pulling your information out of your back side.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3l...inn_page.html- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

plonk

On May 29, 7:34*am, "Wallace" wrote:

It could also be that the ditch was initially constructed as a drainage
ditch, and also (or later) used for irrigation. *Check into any districts
that may have built the ditch. *It sounds like there must be a fair network
of these ditches.


More pix (full-sized) of the bridge as promised, including close-ups
of the bolts/rivets for age estimation. Shot of item lying on the
ground was the best I could get.

http://personal.morris.umn.edu/~webbrl/SundeBridge/

Don't know what to make of the electrical systems. Are some older
than others? Does the meter look up to date? What's with the row of
bunkers (?) with the high voltage warnings? All that for this bridge?

Have I mentioned there's a power substation on the opposite side of
this farm, in the northeast corner? Coincidence?

Brought my cousin along. Lived on a farm in the early 1970s. She
says an older tractor might fit across the bridge but not a new one
and NEVER a combine. Meanwhile, the current owner of my great
grandma's farm says it was indeed used for drainage and, if I
understood him correctly, irrigation. Farmer to the west has/had light
sandy soil and LOTS of water (from wells) AND an irrigation system.
He needed to drain off the excess water. Farmer to the east agreed to
allow the water to drain into the ditch which he could then use to
irrigate his own land. In return, he received permission to use the
adjacent, parallel (to the ditch) access road for hunting. Does that
all fit/make sense? Still not sure when it all actually happened...

RW

On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 00:03:38 +1000, FarmI wrote:

"Ann" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 02 Jun 2010 18:31:51 +1000, FarmI wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
Harry K wrote:
On Jun 1, 8:29 pm, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
"Billy" wrote in message

In article

,
Harry K wrote:

On May 31, 7:44 pm, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
"John Gilmer" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
. au...
"John Gilmer" wrote in message
"Bob Noble" wrote in message
.. .
It looks more to me like that is a bridge used to
support a big
pump
for some kind of irrigation. Note the pump in the middle
with the
overhead to rise the pump.

I suspect that the "bridge" served to hold a "hydralic
ram" which
uses
the velocity of the water to pump a small portion of the
water to
the
level of the surrounding fields.

Nope. Hydraulic rams need a head of water above the pump
so that the
water drops into the ram. - its the action of the water
falling into
the
ram that makes the pumping happen.

Nope, yourself.

You just don't understand how a hydralic ram operates.

I do but I'd love to see a cite that would prove me wrong. I
have a use
for
such a beast.

It uses the kinetic energy of a stream to raise a small
portion of
water
well above the level of the stream.

A stream can certainly be used to do that with a hydraulic
ram but the
stream must allow the water to drop into the ram not just
flow past it
gently like the water does in a slow moving irrigation
channel.

I'd certainly be very interested to see a pic of any
hydraulic ram that
works as you say it will. I can't see how a slow moving
stream can make
use of the water hammer effect that gives the 'ram' its name
but I'd
certainly like to know more details. Can you post a cite
please.- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The system I referred to sat right on the edge of the stream.
The stream was a 'gentle one'. The input pipe ran a distance up
the stream so I guess you could say 'dropping into the ram'.
Yes, there has to be an elevation difference but there is no
"dropping into the ram' in any sense the normal person would
use.

You could look it up on the 'net.

Harry K

Sorry Harry K but I'm tagging onto a response from Billy. (Thanks
Billy for
responding as otherwise I wouldn't have seen this) I have not ever
seen any
post from you Harry on this subject but your comment suggests that
you have
written something on this before. I have seen no other post from
you other
than this reply from Billy.

As I mentioned earlier, a stream can indeed be used to operate a
ram. And
indeed it can be used in just the way you describe. But as I also
wrote there MUST be a drop. That drop does not have to be like a
mini waterfall
immediatley above the ram. It can as you mention come from a
considerable
distance upstream (usually by pipe) to allow for the drop into the
ram. Any 'normal person' with half a brain cell should be able to
figure out that
water flowing to a ram downstream from an intake pipe forms a
'drop'. And a
'drop' there must be (at least there must be a drop unless they
have inveneted something new that no longer operate using water
hammer principles)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Aha. The post I was replying to read like you were saying there had
to be something like a mini waterfall.

I never said any such thing!!!! But in an odd way, you have hit the
nail on the head as to why the bridge could never have been used for a
hydraulic ram (more below).

A 'head' of water can be provided by a pipe bring the water some
distance as we've both already agreed. It CAN also be provided by a
waterfall or even a header tank (not that I mentioned any means of how
the drop was achieved to the ram despite what you erroneously
thought).

But to go back to that bridge which is high above an irrigation
channel.
As you probably know, irrigation channels are a body of slow moving
water and they are on very gently slope. Just how far upstream do you
think the inlet pipe would need to be to provide a head for a
hydraulic ram situated that high above the water on that particular
bridge? That bridge never held any ram because as we both know, there
needs to be that 'drop'. How many miles would a pipe have been run
back up that irrigation channel to allow a drop to run a ram sitting
up on that bridge?

Referring to the photo, I disagree with "high above".

Well you may disagree but it'd be at least 4 ft to the top of a
hydraulic ram situated on that bridge.

Except ... it's the bridge you refer to as being "... high above an
irrigation channel." It's unknown whether the hypothetical ram was
situated on the bridge or suspended from it.

http://personal.morris.umn.edu/~webb...ndeBridge2.jpg

One of the puzzling things about the possibility of it having been used
as a conventional bridge is that it was set down into cuts in the
banks.

Also, the previous exchange in context was:

John Gilmer wrote:
"I suspect that the "bridge" served to hold a "hydralic ram" which uses
the velocity of the water to pump a small portion of the water to the
level of the surrounding fields."

Farm1 replied:
"Nope. Hydraulic rams need a head of water above the pump so that the
water drops into the ram. - its the action of the water falling into
the ram that makes the pumping happen."

Part of the reason I interpreted your "drops" and "falling" literally
was that you were explicitly disagreeing ("Nope") with what John G
wrote.

Am I now missing posts from you too? I haven't seen anything from you
about how you were interpreting what I wrote, but if you'd asked I'd
have told you that "Nope" was in reference to the structure being used
to hold a ram.

My participation in the thread had been about the OP's and other bridges,
not pumps/hydraulic rams. So, you didn't miss any (previous) post of
mine in which I commented on hydraulic rams.

Now, I am confused. Are you saying you meant the "Nope" to refer to the
bridge?

On Jun 2, 10:55*am, MNRebecca wrote:


More pix (full-sized) of the bridge as promised, including close-ups
of the bolts/rivets for age estimation. *Shot of item lying on the
ground was the best I could get.

http://personal.morris.umn.edu/~webbrl/SundeBridge/

Don't know what to make of the electrical systems. *Are some older
than others? *Does the meter look up to date? *What's with the row of
bunkers (?) with the high voltage warnings? *All that for this bridge?

Have I mentioned there's a power substation on the opposite side of
this farm, in the northeast corner? *Coincidence?

Brought my cousin along. *Lived on a farm in the early 1970s. *She
says an older tractor might fit across the bridge but not a new one
and NEVER a combine. *Meanwhile, the current owner of my great
grandma's farm says it was indeed used for drainage and, if I
understood him correctly, irrigation. Farmer to the west has/had light
sandy soil and LOTS of water (from wells) AND an irrigation system.
He needed to drain off the excess water. *Farmer to the east agreed to
allow the water to drain into the ditch which he could then use to
irrigate his own land. *In return, he received permission to use the
adjacent, parallel (to the ditch) access road for hunting. *Does that
all fit/make sense? *Still not sure when it all actually happened...

RW

From looking at those new pics, I'm confused to what it's original
purpose was.
It's a bridge but not very wide and built to hold substantial weight.
Over built even.
It's original intention was probably not to hold any kind of pump,
etc.
It almost looks like a bridge for a narrow gauge train. Something
heavy.
Guessing the lift, etc were added after the fact for some reason.
Just my thoughts.

On Wed, 02 Jun 2010 08:55:37 -0700, MNRebecca wrote:

On May 29, 7:34Â*am, "Wallace" wrote:

It could also be that the ditch was initially constructed as a drainage
ditch, and also (or later) used for irrigation. Â*Check into any
districts that may have built the ditch. Â*It sounds like there must be
a fair network of these ditches.


More pix (full-sized) of the bridge as promised, including close-ups of
the bolts/rivets for age estimation. Shot of item lying on the ground
was the best I could get.

http://personal.morris.umn.edu/~webbrl/SundeBridge/

Don't know what to make of the electrical systems. Are some older than
others? Does the meter look up to date? What's with the row of bunkers
(?) with the high voltage warnings? All that for this bridge?

Have I mentioned there's a power substation on the opposite side of this
farm, in the northeast corner? Coincidence?

Brought my cousin along. Lived on a farm in the early 1970s. She says
an older tractor might fit across the bridge but not a new one and NEVER
a combine. Meanwhile, the current owner of my great grandma's farm says
it was indeed used for drainage and, if I understood him correctly,
irrigation. Farmer to the west has/had light sandy soil and LOTS of
water (from wells) AND an irrigation system. He needed to drain off the
excess water. Farmer to the east agreed to allow the water to drain
into the ditch which he could then use to irrigate his own land. In
return, he received permission to use the adjacent, parallel (to the
ditch) access road for hunting. Does that all fit/make sense? Still
not sure when it all actually happened...

RW

Thanks for the follow-up.

The rivets are consistent with it being a pony truss bridge ... early
1900s.

The electrical boxes (3976) belong to the Agralite Electric Coop
http://www.agralite.coop/ The boxes have "No PCBs" labels, which date
them as having been installed after the late 1970s PCB phase out.

In article ,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message news:wildbilly-
Harry K wrote:

On Jun 1, 8:29 pm, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
"Billy" wrote in message

..
.





In article
,
Harry K wrote:

On May 31, 7:44 pm, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
"John Gilmer" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
. au...
"John Gilmer" wrote in message
"Bob Noble" wrote in message
.. .
It looks more to me like that is a bridge used to support a
big
pump
for some kind of irrigation. Note the pump in the middle with
the
overhead to rise the pump.

I suspect that the "bridge" served to hold a "hydralic ram"
which
uses
the velocity of the water to pump a small portion of the water
to
the
level of the surrounding fields.

Nope. Hydraulic rams need a head of water above the pump so
that the
water drops into the ram. - its the action of the water falling
into
the
ram that makes the pumping happen.

Nope, yourself.

You just don't understand how a hydralic ram operates.

I do but I'd love to see a cite that would prove me wrong. I have
a use
for
such a beast.

It uses the kinetic energy of a stream to raise a small portion
of
water
well above the level of the stream.

A stream can certainly be used to do that with a hydraulic ram but
the
stream must allow the water to drop into the ram not just flow
past it
gently like the water does in a slow moving irrigation channel.

I'd certainly be very interested to see a pic of any hydraulic ram
that
works as you say it will. I can't see how a slow moving stream can
make
use of the water hammer effect that gives the 'ram' its name but
I'd
certainly like to know more details. Can you post a cite please.-
Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The system I referred to sat right on the edge of the stream. The
stream was a 'gentle one'. The input pipe ran a distance up the
stream so I guess you could say 'dropping into the ram'. Yes, there
has to be an elevation difference but there is no "dropping into the
ram' in any sense the normal person would use.

You could look it up on the 'net.

Harry K

Sorry Harry K but I'm tagging onto a response from Billy. (Thanks Billy
for
responding as otherwise I wouldn't have seen this) I have not ever seen
any
post from you Harry on this subject but your comment suggests that you
have
written something on this before. I have seen no other post from you
other
than this reply from Billy.

As I mentioned earlier, a stream can indeed be used to operate a ram.
And
indeed it can be used in just the way you describe. But as I also wrote
there MUST be a drop. That drop does not have to be like a mini
waterfall
immediatley above the ram. It can as you mention come from a
considerable
distance upstream (usually by pipe) to allow for the drop into the ram.
Any 'normal person' with half a brain cell should be able to figure out
that
water flowing to a ram downstream from an intake pipe forms a 'drop'.
And a
'drop' there must be (at least there must be a drop unless they have
inveneted something new that no longer operate using water hammer
principles)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Aha. The post I was replying to read like you were saying there had
to be something like a mini waterfall.

I dunno why you can't see my post. Perhaps you have me kill filed?

Harry K

And if you were an honorable man, you would give a citation to make your
point, instead of saying, "Go look it up." As it stands, it appears that
your pulling your information out of your back side.

Thanks again for responding Billy as I just can't see his posts. But I did
know what he meant about the inlet pipe without having to do a google.
Effectively he'd described how to obtain that drop into the ram so I knew
what he was referring to.

Harry thinks a 'normal person' wouldn't see that as a drop, but I know that
you'd know my background well enough to know that I'm quite normal in the
rural Australian sense but probably not in an urban or American sense.
Having seen so many silly questions online such as can someone drink
rainwater, or drink water collected off a roof or (grasp!!) even use it on
vegetables, I'm always stunned at such lack of awareness of water and it's
provision to house, animals and garden.

Wait till they find out what's on the meat in the market ;O)
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html

On Wed, 02 Jun 2010 12:07:22 -0700, Billy wrote:
Ann wrote:
FarmI wrote:
"Ann" wrote in message
FarmI wrote:
"Billy" wrote
Harry K wrote:
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
"Billy" wrote
Harry K wrote:
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
"John Gilmer" wrote
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote
"John Gilmer" wrote
"Bob Noble" wrote
It looks more to me like that is a bridge used to
support a big
pump
for some kind of irrigation. Note the pump in the
middle with the
overhead to rise the pump.

I suspect that the "bridge" served to hold a "hydralic
ram" which
uses
the velocity of the water to pump a small portion of
the water to
the
level of the surrounding fields.

Nope. Hydraulic rams need a head of water above the
pump so that the
water drops into the ram. - its the action of the water
falling into
the
ram that makes the pumping happen.

Nope, yourself.

You just don't understand how a hydralic ram operates.

I do but I'd love to see a cite that would prove me wrong.
I have a use
for
such a beast.

It uses the kinetic energy of a stream to raise a small
portion of
water
well above the level of the stream.

A stream can certainly be used to do that with a hydraulic
ram but the
stream must allow the water to drop into the ram not just
flow past it
gently like the water does in a slow moving irrigation
channel.

I'd certainly be very interested to see a pic of any
hydraulic ram that
works as you say it will. I can't see how a slow moving
stream can make
use of the water hammer effect that gives the 'ram' its
name but I'd
certainly like to know more details. Can you post a cite
please.- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The system I referred to sat right on the edge of the
stream. The stream was a 'gentle one'. The input pipe ran a
distance up the stream so I guess you could say 'dropping
into the ram'. Yes, there has to be an elevation difference
but there is no "dropping into the ram' in any sense the
normal person would use.

You could look it up on the 'net.

Harry K

Sorry Harry K but I'm tagging onto a response from Billy.
(Thanks Billy for
responding as otherwise I wouldn't have seen this) I have not
ever seen any
post from you Harry on this subject but your comment suggests
that you have
written something on this before. I have seen no other post
from you other
than this reply from Billy.

As I mentioned earlier, a stream can indeed be used to operate
a ram. And
indeed it can be used in just the way you describe. But as I
also wrote there MUST be a drop. That drop does not have to be
like a mini waterfall
immediatley above the ram. It can as you mention come from a
considerable
distance upstream (usually by pipe) to allow for the drop into
the ram. Any 'normal person' with half a brain cell should be
able to figure out that
water flowing to a ram downstream from an intake pipe forms a
'drop'. And a
'drop' there must be (at least there must be a drop unless they
have inveneted something new that no longer operate using water
hammer principles)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Aha. The post I was replying to read like you were saying there
had to be something like a mini waterfall.

I never said any such thing!!!! But in an odd way, you have hit
the nail on the head as to why the bridge could never have been
used for a hydraulic ram (more below).

A 'head' of water can be provided by a pipe bring the water some
distance as we've both already agreed. It CAN also be provided by
a waterfall or even a header tank (not that I mentioned any means
of how the drop was achieved to the ram despite what you
erroneously thought).

But to go back to that bridge which is high above an irrigation
channel.
As you probably know, irrigation channels are a body of slow
moving
water and they are on very gently slope. Just how far upstream do
you think the inlet pipe would need to be to provide a head for a
hydraulic ram situated that high above the water on that particular
bridge? That bridge never held any ram because as we both know,
there needs to be that 'drop'. How many miles would a pipe have
been run back up that irrigation channel to allow a drop to run a
ram sitting up on that bridge?

Referring to the photo, I disagree with "high above".

Well you may disagree but it'd be at least 4 ft to the top of a
hydraulic ram situated on that bridge.

Except ... it's the bridge you refer to as being "... high above an
irrigation channel." It's unknown whether the hypothetical ram was
situated on the bridge or suspended from it.

http://personal.morris.umn.edu/~webb...ndeBridge2.jpg

One of the puzzling things about the possibility of it having been
used as a conventional bridge is that it was set down into cuts in
the banks.

Also, the previous exchange in context was:

John Gilmer wrote:
"I suspect that the "bridge" served to hold a "hydralic ram" which
uses the velocity of the water to pump a small portion of the water
to the level of the surrounding fields."

Farm1 replied:
"Nope. Hydraulic rams need a head of water above the pump so that
the water drops into the ram. - its the action of the water falling
into the ram that makes the pumping happen."

Part of the reason I interpreted your "drops" and "falling"
literally was that you were explicitly disagreeing ("Nope") with
what John G wrote.

Am I now missing posts from you too? I haven't seen anything from
you about how you were interpreting what I wrote, but if you'd asked
I'd have told you that "Nope" was in reference to the structure being
used to hold a ram.

My participation in the thread had been about the OP's and other
bridges, not pumps/hydraulic rams. So, you didn't miss any (previous)
post of mine in which I commented on hydraulic rams.

Now, I am confused. Are you saying you meant the "Nope" to refer to
the bridge?

Might be better if you kept this over in misc.rural because with the
exception of FarmI, I don't recognize any posters from wrecked gardens.

You're suggesting that to me because _______? It would have been more
appropriate to suggest it to Farm1 if you think she is the only one from
rec.gardens (other than you) participating in the thread. I have
restored rec.gardens to the group list for this post as I don't know if
Farm1 is currently subscribed to m.r.

"Ann" wrote in message
On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 00:03:38 +1000, FarmI wrote:
"Ann" wrote in message

Referring to the photo, I disagree with "high above".

Well you may disagree but it'd be at least 4 ft to the top of a
hydraulic ram situated on that bridge.

Except ... it's the bridge you refer to as being "... high above an
irrigation channel." It's unknown whether the hypothetical ram was
situated on the bridge or suspended from it.


Well I can see your point out the position of this hypothetical ram, but to
go along with that, I'd have to ignore what farmers do in real life which is
to go with the most practiacl solution to save themselves time both in the
build and in the maintenance.

If there is a perfectly good flat platform on which to put a pump why go to
the trouble of rigging up a way of suspending an hydraulic ram below such a
structure? A platform out the side may be a possibility but I'd say from
the new pics that it's always been used the way it is shown. Probably
bought cheap in some sort of clearance sale by whoever had it originally for
whatever they had it for originally.


http://personal.morris.umn.edu/~webb...ndeBridge2.jpg

One of the puzzling things about the possibility of it having been used
as a conventional bridge is that it was set down into cuts in the
banks.

Also, the previous exchange in context was:

John Gilmer wrote:
"I suspect that the "bridge" served to hold a "hydralic ram" which uses
the velocity of the water to pump a small portion of the water to the
level of the surrounding fields."

Farm1 replied:
"Nope. Hydraulic rams need a head of water above the pump so that the
water drops into the ram. - its the action of the water falling into
the ram that makes the pumping happen."

Part of the reason I interpreted your "drops" and "falling" literally
was that you were explicitly disagreeing ("Nope") with what John G
wrote.

Am I now missing posts from you too? I haven't seen anything from you
about how you were interpreting what I wrote, but if you'd asked I'd
have told you that "Nope" was in reference to the structure being used
to hold a ram.

My participation in the thread had been about the OP's and other bridges,
not pumps/hydraulic rams. So, you didn't miss any (previous) post of
mine in which I commented on hydraulic rams.

Now, I am confused. Are you saying you meant the "Nope" to refer to the
bridge?

Ah! I see what you mean! My first thought was about that bridge not being
a site for a ram. So, yes, I did mean "Nope" was in reference to the
structure being used to hold a ram.

I don't believe that bridge held a ram and now I've seen more pics, I'm even
more of that view. But as I think you're poitning out, since I don't
believe that bridge held a ram, then my nope must also refer to a ram (but
it was the bridge that I was thinking about).

On Wed, 02 Jun 2010 17:41:07 -0700, Billy wrote:

In article , Ann
wrote:
(snip, snippty, whack)

Might be better if you kept this over in misc.rural because with the
exception of FarmI, I don't recognize any posters from wrecked
gardens.

You're suggesting that to me because _______? It would have been more
appropriate to suggest it to Farm1 if you think she is the only one
from rec.gardens (other than you) participating in the thread. I have
restored rec.gardens to the group list for this post as I don't know if
Farm1 is currently subscribed to m.r.

Actually, it was more of a y'all keep it over in y'all's group, 'cause I
don't recognize anyone else here as being a regular in wrecked gardens.
'K?
I mean, I'm sure it is a fine bridge(?), and all, and if you need some
ornamentals, like pelargoniums to gussy it up, then come on back, but
vetting rusty pump parts, which may or may not exist, on a small metal
span, which may or may not be a bridge, may more accurately be
elaborated over in alt.sci.physics (don't find no listing for
hydrolics), but is a little off the beaten path of horticulture. 'K?

Bonne soirée, y'all.

No, you still don't have it right. If you'd spent a few minutes at
groups.google.com before you dug yourself in deeper, you'd have found
that the OP had never posted to misc.rural before.

If you're bored (or whatever) with the thread, kill filter it instead of
hassling people in another ng; the OP was a "third party" whose "home" is
Google Groups.

I am again restoring rec.gardens to the groups list. This time, so other
participants will be aware that they have a self-appointed group
moderator.

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
. ..
"Ann" wrote in message
On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 00:03:38 +1000, FarmI wrote:
"Ann" wrote in message

Referring to the photo, I disagree with "high above".

Well you may disagree but it'd be at least 4 ft to the top of a
hydraulic ram situated on that bridge.

Except ... it's the bridge you refer to as being "... high above an
irrigation channel." It's unknown whether the hypothetical ram was
situated on the bridge or suspended from it.


Well I can see your point out the position of this hypothetical ram, but
to go along with that, I'd have to ignore what farmers do in real life
which is to go with the most practiacl solution to save themselves time
both in the build and in the maintenance.

If there is a perfectly good flat platform on which to put a pump why go
to the trouble of rigging up a way of suspending an hydraulic ram below
such a structure?

to make it work better (or at all)?




A platform out the side may be a possibility but I'd say from
the new pics that it's always been used the way it is shown.


From the new pics it looks like what I said long ago - the motor was mounted
on the bridge and the pump itself placed in the water.

On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 12:05:51 +1000, FarmI wrote:

"Ann" wrote in message
On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 00:03:38 +1000, FarmI wrote:
"Ann" wrote in message

Referring to the photo, I disagree with "high above".

Well you may disagree but it'd be at least 4 ft to the top of a
hydraulic ram situated on that bridge.

Except ... it's the bridge you refer to as being "... high above an
irrigation channel." It's unknown whether the hypothetical ram was
situated on the bridge or suspended from it.


Well I can see your point out the position of this hypothetical ram, but
to go along with that, I'd have to ignore what farmers do in real life
which is to go with the most practiacl solution to save themselves time
both in the build and in the maintenance.

If there is a perfectly good flat platform on which to put a pump why go
to the trouble of rigging up a way of suspending an hydraulic ram below
such a structure? A platform out the side may be a possibility but I'd
say from the new pics that it's always been used the way it is shown.
Probably bought cheap in some sort of clearance sale by whoever had it
originally for whatever they had it for originally.

I'm not going to argue with that, since 5/26 I posted:
"Consider the possibility that "your" bridge was repurposed from its
original use/location. As those bridges were phased out, some were
probably free for the taking." g

http://personal.morris.umn.edu/~webb...ndeBridge2.jpg

One of the puzzling things about the possibility of it having been
used as a conventional bridge is that it was set down into cuts in
the banks.

Also, the previous exchange in context was:

John Gilmer wrote:
"I suspect that the "bridge" served to hold a "hydralic ram" which
uses the velocity of the water to pump a small portion of the water
to the level of the surrounding fields."

Farm1 replied:
"Nope. Hydraulic rams need a head of water above the pump so that the
water drops into the ram. - its the action of the water falling into
the ram that makes the pumping happen."

Part of the reason I interpreted your "drops" and "falling" literally
was that you were explicitly disagreeing ("Nope") with what John G
wrote.

Am I now missing posts from you too? I haven't seen anything from you
about how you were interpreting what I wrote, but if you'd asked I'd
have told you that "Nope" was in reference to the structure being used
to hold a ram.

My participation in the thread had been about the OP's and other
bridges, not pumps/hydraulic rams. So, you didn't miss any (previous)
post of mine in which I commented on hydraulic rams.

Now, I am confused. Are you saying you meant the "Nope" to refer to
the bridge?

Ah! I see what you mean! My first thought was about that bridge not
being a site for a ram. So, yes, I did mean "Nope" was in reference to
the structure being used to hold a ram.

I don't believe that bridge held a ram and now I've seen more pics, I'm
even more of that view. But as I think you're poitning out, since I
don't believe that bridge held a ram, then my nope must also refer to a
ram (but it was the bridge that I was thinking about).

OK ... I think.

Since we are discussing water, how did your summer go water-wise?

Ann wrote:

Billy wrote:
[....]

Might be better if you kept this over in misc.rural because with the
exception of FarmI, I don't recognize any posters from wrecked gardens.

You're suggesting that to me because _______? It would have been more
appropriate to suggest it to Farm1 if you think she is the only one from
rec.gardens (other than you) participating in the thread. I have
restored rec.gardens to the group list for this post as I don't know if
Farm1 is currently subscribed to m.r.

I always get a big kick out of someone making any attempt to
control or recommend changes to my decisions pertaining to my
cross posting.

In article , Jim
wrote:

Ann wrote:

Billy wrote:
[....]

Might be better if you kept this over in misc.rural because with the
exception of FarmI, I don't recognize any posters from wrecked gardens.

You're suggesting that to me because _______? It would have been more
appropriate to suggest it to Farm1 if you think she is the only one from
rec.gardens (other than you) participating in the thread. I have
restored rec.gardens to the group list for this post as I don't know if
Farm1 is currently subscribed to m.r.

I always get a big kick out of someone making any attempt to
control or recommend changes to my decisions pertaining to my
cross posting.
I was just trying to bring out the "Truth, Justice, and the American
Way" in you, but I see that I've hit unadulterated troll.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html

Bob Noble wrote:
It looks more to me like that is a bridge used to support a big pump
for some kind of irrigation. Note the pump in the middle with the
overhead to rise the pump.

Yes exactly. It sure looks like a big ass electric motor on the left
with a cover over the belt drive part of the pump on the right. Looks
like electrical conduit going to the electric motor, although the setup
looks older than conduit, it may have been upgraded at one time.

Like others said, the bridge itself was probably used and moved the this
location since it's probably 10 or more times stronger than it needed to be.

MNRebecca wrote:
On May 29, 7:34 am, "Wallace" wrote:

It could also be that the ditch was initially constructed as a drainage
ditch, and also (or later) used for irrigation. Check into any districts
that may have built the ditch. It sounds like there must be a fair network
of these ditches.


More pix (full-sized) of the bridge as promised, including close-ups
of the bolts/rivets for age estimation. Shot of item lying on the
ground was the best I could get.

http://personal.morris.umn.edu/~webbrl/SundeBridge/

Don't know what to make of the electrical systems. Are some older
than others? Does the meter look up to date? What's with the row of
bunkers (?) with the high voltage warnings? All that for this bridge?

Have I mentioned there's a power substation on the opposite side of
this farm, in the northeast corner? Coincidence?

Brought my cousin along. Lived on a farm in the early 1970s. She
says an older tractor might fit across the bridge but not a new one
and NEVER a combine. Meanwhile, the current owner of my great
grandma's farm says it was indeed used for drainage and, if I
understood him correctly, irrigation. Farmer to the west has/had light
sandy soil and LOTS of water (from wells) AND an irrigation system.
He needed to drain off the excess water. Farmer to the east agreed to
allow the water to drain into the ditch which he could then use to
irrigate his own land. In return, he received permission to use the
adjacent, parallel (to the ditch) access road for hunting. Does that
all fit/make sense? Still not sure when it all actually happened...

Oh gee, just after I look better and comment on the first pics, here are
high res ones! I doubt if anyone would deny there is a big electric
motor to drive a pump, and definitly electrical conduit. The high
voltage boxes look like every day transformers normally used when the
power lines are underground. The question is why so many at one place?
One would surely power the pump. The narrow width could be again
because it is a used bridge. The trusses were used but they put it
together again narrower than original. It didn't need to fit a tractor,
no tractor was going to squeeze past the pump anyway.