"John Gilmer" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
u...
"John Gilmer" wrote in message
"Bob Noble" wrote in message
...
It looks more to me like that is a bridge used to support a big pump
for some kind of irrigation. Note the pump in the middle with the
overhead to rise the pump.


I suspect that the "bridge" served to hold a "hydralic ram" which uses
the velocity of the water to pump a small portion of the water to the
level of the surrounding fields.

Nope. Hydraulic rams need a head of water above the pump so that the
water drops into the ram. - its the action of the water falling into the
ram that makes the pumping happen.


Nope, yourself.

You just don't understand how a hydralic ram operates.

I do but I'd love to see a cite that would prove me wrong. I have a use for
such a beast.

It uses the kinetic energy of a stream to raise a small portion of water
well above the level of the stream.

A stream can certainly be used to do that with a hydraulic ram but the
stream must allow the water to drop into the ram not just flow past it
gently like the water does in a slow moving irrigation channel.

I'd certainly be very interested to see a pic of any hydraulic ram that
works as you say it will. I can't see how a slow moving stream can make
use of the water hammer effect that gives the 'ram' its name but I'd
certainly like to know more details. Can you post a cite please.

On May 31, 7:44*pm, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
"John Gilmer" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
. au...
"John Gilmer" wrote in message
"Bob Noble" wrote in message
.. .
It looks more to me like that is a *bridge used to support a big pump
for some kind of irrigation. *Note the pump in the middle with the
overhead to rise the pump.

I suspect that the "bridge" served to hold a "hydralic ram" which uses
the velocity of the water to pump a small portion of the water to the
level of the surrounding fields.

Nope. *Hydraulic rams need a head of water above the pump so that the
water drops into the ram. *- its the action of the water falling into the
ram that makes the pumping happen.

Nope, yourself.

You just don't understand how a hydralic ram operates.

I do but I'd love to see a cite that would prove me wrong. *I have a use for
such a beast.

It uses the kinetic energy of a stream to raise a small portion of water
well above the level of the stream.

A stream can certainly be used to do that with a hydraulic ram but the
stream must allow the water to drop into the ram not just flow past it
gently like the water does in a slow moving irrigation channel.

I'd certainly be very interested to see a pic of any hydraulic ram that
works as you say it will. *I can't see how *a slow moving stream can make
use of the water hammer effect that gives the 'ram' its name but I'd
certainly like to know more details. *Can you post a cite please.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The system I referred to sat right on the edge of the stream. The
stream was a 'gentle one'. The input pipe ran a distance up the
stream so I guess you could say 'dropping into the ram'. Yes, there
has to be an elevation difference but there is no "dropping into the
ram' in any sense the normal person would use.

You could look it up on the 'net.

Harry K

In article
,
Harry K wrote:

On May 31, 7:44*pm, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
"John Gilmer" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
. au...
"John Gilmer" wrote in message
"Bob Noble" wrote in message
.. .
It looks more to me like that is a *bridge used to support a big pump
for some kind of irrigation. *Note the pump in the middle with the
overhead to rise the pump.

I suspect that the "bridge" served to hold a "hydralic ram" which uses
the velocity of the water to pump a small portion of the water to the
level of the surrounding fields.

Nope. *Hydraulic rams need a head of water above the pump so that the
water drops into the ram. *- its the action of the water falling into
the
ram that makes the pumping happen.

Nope, yourself.

You just don't understand how a hydralic ram operates.

I do but I'd love to see a cite that would prove me wrong. *I have a use
for
such a beast.

It uses the kinetic energy of a stream to raise a small portion of water
well above the level of the stream.

A stream can certainly be used to do that with a hydraulic ram but the
stream must allow the water to drop into the ram not just flow past it
gently like the water does in a slow moving irrigation channel.

I'd certainly be very interested to see a pic of any hydraulic ram that
works as you say it will. *I can't see how *a slow moving stream can make
use of the water hammer effect that gives the 'ram' its name but I'd
certainly like to know more details. *Can you post a cite please.- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The system I referred to sat right on the edge of the stream. The
stream was a 'gentle one'. The input pipe ran a distance up the
stream so I guess you could say 'dropping into the ram'. Yes, there
has to be an elevation difference but there is no "dropping into the
ram' in any sense the normal person would use.

You could look it up on the 'net.

Harry K

Ah, ya got 'em runnin' now ;O)
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article
,
Harry K wrote:

On May 31, 7:44 pm, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
"John Gilmer" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
. au...
"John Gilmer" wrote in message
"Bob Noble" wrote in message
.. .
It looks more to me like that is a bridge used to support a big
pump
for some kind of irrigation. Note the pump in the middle with the
overhead to rise the pump.

I suspect that the "bridge" served to hold a "hydralic ram" which
uses
the velocity of the water to pump a small portion of the water to
the
level of the surrounding fields.

Nope. Hydraulic rams need a head of water above the pump so that the
water drops into the ram. - its the action of the water falling into
the
ram that makes the pumping happen.

Nope, yourself.

You just don't understand how a hydralic ram operates.

I do but I'd love to see a cite that would prove me wrong. I have a use
for
such a beast.

It uses the kinetic energy of a stream to raise a small portion of
water
well above the level of the stream.

A stream can certainly be used to do that with a hydraulic ram but the
stream must allow the water to drop into the ram not just flow past it
gently like the water does in a slow moving irrigation channel.

I'd certainly be very interested to see a pic of any hydraulic ram that
works as you say it will. I can't see how a slow moving stream can make
use of the water hammer effect that gives the 'ram' its name but I'd
certainly like to know more details. Can you post a cite please.- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The system I referred to sat right on the edge of the stream. The
stream was a 'gentle one'. The input pipe ran a distance up the
stream so I guess you could say 'dropping into the ram'. Yes, there
has to be an elevation difference but there is no "dropping into the
ram' in any sense the normal person would use.

You could look it up on the 'net.

Harry K

Sorry Harry K but I'm tagging onto a response from Billy. (Thanks Billy for
responding as otherwise I wouldn't have seen this) I have not ever seen any
post from you Harry on this subject but your comment suggests that you have
written something on this before. I have seen no other post from you other
than this reply from Billy.

As I mentioned earlier, a stream can indeed be used to operate a ram. And
indeed it can be used in just the way you describe. But as I also wrote
there MUST be a drop. That drop does not have to be like a mini waterfall
immediatley above the ram. It can as you mention come from a considerable
distance upstream (usually by pipe) to allow for the drop into the ram.
Any 'normal person' with half a brain cell should be able to figure out that
water flowing to a ram downstream from an intake pipe forms a 'drop'. And a
'drop' there must be (at least there must be a drop unless they have
inveneted something new that no longer operate using water hammer
principles)

On Jun 1, 8:29*pm, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
"Billy" wrote in message

....





In article
,
Harry K wrote:

On May 31, 7:44 pm, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
"John Gilmer" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
. au...
"John Gilmer" wrote in message
"Bob Noble" wrote in message
.. .
It looks more to me like that is a bridge used to support a big
pump
for some kind of irrigation. Note the pump in the middle with the
overhead to rise the pump.

I suspect that the "bridge" served to hold a "hydralic ram" which
uses
the velocity of the water to pump a small portion of the water to
the
level of the surrounding fields.

Nope. Hydraulic rams need a head of water above the pump so that the
water drops into the ram. - its the action of the water falling into
the
ram that makes the pumping happen.

Nope, yourself.

You just don't understand how a hydralic ram operates.

I do but I'd love to see a cite that would prove me wrong. I have a use
for
such a beast.

It uses the kinetic energy of a stream to raise a small portion of
water
well above the level of the stream.

A stream can certainly be used to do that with a hydraulic ram but the
stream must allow the water to drop into the ram not just flow past it
gently like the water does in a slow moving irrigation channel.

I'd certainly be very interested to see a pic of any hydraulic ram that
works as you say it will. I can't see how a slow moving stream can make
use of the water hammer effect that gives the 'ram' its name but I'd
certainly like to know more details. Can you post a cite please.- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The system I referred to sat right on the edge of the stream. *The
stream was a 'gentle one'. *The input pipe ran a distance up the
stream so I guess you could say 'dropping into the ram'. *Yes, there
has to be an elevation difference but there is no "dropping into the
ram' in any sense the normal person would use.

You could look it up on the 'net.

Harry K

Sorry Harry K but I'm tagging onto a response from Billy. *(Thanks Billy for
responding as otherwise I wouldn't have seen this) *I have not ever seen any
post from you Harry on this subject but your comment suggests that you have
written something on this before. *I have seen no other post from you other
than this reply from Billy.

As I mentioned earlier, a stream can indeed be used to operate a ram. *And
indeed it can be used in just the way you describe. *But as I also wrote
there MUST be a drop. *That drop does not have to be like a mini waterfall
immediatley above the ram. *It can as you mention come from a considerable
distance upstream (usually by pipe) to allow for the drop into the ram.
Any 'normal person' with half a brain cell should be able to figure out that
water flowing to a ram downstream from an intake pipe forms a 'drop'. *And a
'drop' there must be (at least there must be a drop unless they have
inveneted something new that no longer operate using water hammer
principles)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Aha. The post I was replying to read like you were saying there had
to be something like a mini waterfall.

I dunno why you can't see my post. Perhaps you have me kill filed?

Harry K

In article
,
Harry K wrote:

On Jun 1, 8:29*pm, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
"Billy" wrote in message

...





In article
,
Harry K wrote:

On May 31, 7:44 pm, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
"John Gilmer" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
. au...
"John Gilmer" wrote in message
"Bob Noble" wrote in message
.. .
It looks more to me like that is a bridge used to support a big
pump
for some kind of irrigation. Note the pump in the middle with the
overhead to rise the pump.

I suspect that the "bridge" served to hold a "hydralic ram" which
uses
the velocity of the water to pump a small portion of the water to
the
level of the surrounding fields.

Nope. Hydraulic rams need a head of water above the pump so that the
water drops into the ram. - its the action of the water falling into
the
ram that makes the pumping happen.

Nope, yourself.

You just don't understand how a hydralic ram operates.

I do but I'd love to see a cite that would prove me wrong. I have a use
for
such a beast.

It uses the kinetic energy of a stream to raise a small portion of
water
well above the level of the stream.

A stream can certainly be used to do that with a hydraulic ram but the
stream must allow the water to drop into the ram not just flow past it
gently like the water does in a slow moving irrigation channel.

I'd certainly be very interested to see a pic of any hydraulic ram that
works as you say it will. I can't see how a slow moving stream can make
use of the water hammer effect that gives the 'ram' its name but I'd
certainly like to know more details. Can you post a cite please.- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The system I referred to sat right on the edge of the stream. *The
stream was a 'gentle one'. *The input pipe ran a distance up the
stream so I guess you could say 'dropping into the ram'. *Yes, there
has to be an elevation difference but there is no "dropping into the
ram' in any sense the normal person would use.

You could look it up on the 'net.

Harry K

Sorry Harry K but I'm tagging onto a response from Billy. *(Thanks Billy for
responding as otherwise I wouldn't have seen this) *I have not ever seen any
post from you Harry on this subject but your comment suggests that you have
written something on this before. *I have seen no other post from you other
than this reply from Billy.

As I mentioned earlier, a stream can indeed be used to operate a ram. *And
indeed it can be used in just the way you describe. *But as I also wrote
there MUST be a drop. *That drop does not have to be like a mini waterfall
immediatley above the ram. *It can as you mention come from a considerable
distance upstream (usually by pipe) to allow for the drop into the ram.
Any 'normal person' with half a brain cell should be able to figure out that
water flowing to a ram downstream from an intake pipe forms a 'drop'. *And a
'drop' there must be (at least there must be a drop unless they have
inveneted something new that no longer operate using water hammer
principles)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Aha. The post I was replying to read like you were saying there had
to be something like a mini waterfall.

I dunno why you can't see my post. Perhaps you have me kill filed?

Harry K

And if you were an honorable man, you would give a citation to make your
point, instead of saying, "Go look it up." As it stands, it appears that
your pulling your information out of your back side.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html

I do but I'd love to see a cite that would prove me wrong. I have a use
for such a beast.

Please describe the stream (or whatever) you have available.

"Billy" wrote in message
Harry K wrote:
On Jun 1, 8:29 pm, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
"Billy" wrote in message

In article
,
Harry K wrote:

On May 31, 7:44 pm, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
"John Gilmer" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
. au...
"John Gilmer" wrote in message
"Bob Noble" wrote in message
.. .
It looks more to me like that is a bridge used to support a
big
pump
for some kind of irrigation. Note the pump in the middle with
the
overhead to rise the pump.

I suspect that the "bridge" served to hold a "hydralic ram"
which
uses
the velocity of the water to pump a small portion of the water
to
the
level of the surrounding fields.

Nope. Hydraulic rams need a head of water above the pump so
that the
water drops into the ram. - its the action of the water falling
into
the
ram that makes the pumping happen.

Nope, yourself.

You just don't understand how a hydralic ram operates.

I do but I'd love to see a cite that would prove me wrong. I have
a use
for
such a beast.

It uses the kinetic energy of a stream to raise a small portion
of
water
well above the level of the stream.

A stream can certainly be used to do that with a hydraulic ram but
the
stream must allow the water to drop into the ram not just flow
past it
gently like the water does in a slow moving irrigation channel.

I'd certainly be very interested to see a pic of any hydraulic ram
that
works as you say it will. I can't see how a slow moving stream can
make
use of the water hammer effect that gives the 'ram' its name but
I'd
certainly like to know more details. Can you post a cite please.-
Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The system I referred to sat right on the edge of the stream. The
stream was a 'gentle one'. The input pipe ran a distance up the
stream so I guess you could say 'dropping into the ram'. Yes, there
has to be an elevation difference but there is no "dropping into the
ram' in any sense the normal person would use.

You could look it up on the 'net.

Harry K

Sorry Harry K but I'm tagging onto a response from Billy. (Thanks Billy
for
responding as otherwise I wouldn't have seen this) I have not ever seen
any
post from you Harry on this subject but your comment suggests that you
have
written something on this before. I have seen no other post from you
other
than this reply from Billy.

As I mentioned earlier, a stream can indeed be used to operate a ram.
And
indeed it can be used in just the way you describe. But as I also wrote
there MUST be a drop. That drop does not have to be like a mini
waterfall
immediatley above the ram. It can as you mention come from a
considerable
distance upstream (usually by pipe) to allow for the drop into the ram.
Any 'normal person' with half a brain cell should be able to figure out
that
water flowing to a ram downstream from an intake pipe forms a 'drop'.
And a
'drop' there must be (at least there must be a drop unless they have
inveneted something new that no longer operate using water hammer
principles)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Aha. The post I was replying to read like you were saying there had
to be something like a mini waterfall.

I never said any such thing!!!! But in an odd way, you have hit the nail on
the head as to why the bridge could never have been used for a hydraulic ram
(more below).

A 'head' of water can be provided by a pipe bring the water some distance as
we've both already agreed. It CAN also be provided by a waterfall or even a
header tank (not that I mentioned any means of how the drop was achieved to
the ram despite what you erroneously thought).

But to go back to that bridge which is high above an irrigation channel. As
you probably know, irrigation channels are a body of slow moving water and
they are on very gently slope. Just how far upstream do you think the inlet
pipe would need to be to provide a head for a hydraulic ram situated that
high above the water on that particular bridge? That bridge never held any
ram because as we both know, there needs to be that 'drop'. How many miles
would a pipe have been run back up that irrigation channel to allow a drop
to run a ram sitting up on that bridge?


I dunno why you can't see my post. Perhaps you have me kill filed?

I don't know if I have you kfed or not. I tend to killfile habitual drongos
or loonies. Sometimes posts just go missing. It seems to be happening more
as time goes on and ISPs are getting funny about usenet.

"Billy" wrote in message news:wildbilly-
Harry K wrote:

On Jun 1, 8:29 pm, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
"Billy" wrote in message

...





In article
,
Harry K wrote:

On May 31, 7:44 pm, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
"John Gilmer" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
. au...
"John Gilmer" wrote in message
"Bob Noble" wrote in message
.. .
It looks more to me like that is a bridge used to support a
big
pump
for some kind of irrigation. Note the pump in the middle with
the
overhead to rise the pump.

I suspect that the "bridge" served to hold a "hydralic ram"
which
uses
the velocity of the water to pump a small portion of the water
to
the
level of the surrounding fields.

Nope. Hydraulic rams need a head of water above the pump so
that the
water drops into the ram. - its the action of the water falling
into
the
ram that makes the pumping happen.

Nope, yourself.

You just don't understand how a hydralic ram operates.

I do but I'd love to see a cite that would prove me wrong. I have
a use
for
such a beast.

It uses the kinetic energy of a stream to raise a small portion
of
water
well above the level of the stream.

A stream can certainly be used to do that with a hydraulic ram but
the
stream must allow the water to drop into the ram not just flow
past it
gently like the water does in a slow moving irrigation channel.

I'd certainly be very interested to see a pic of any hydraulic ram
that
works as you say it will. I can't see how a slow moving stream can
make
use of the water hammer effect that gives the 'ram' its name but
I'd
certainly like to know more details. Can you post a cite please.-
Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The system I referred to sat right on the edge of the stream. The
stream was a 'gentle one'. The input pipe ran a distance up the
stream so I guess you could say 'dropping into the ram'. Yes, there
has to be an elevation difference but there is no "dropping into the
ram' in any sense the normal person would use.

You could look it up on the 'net.

Harry K

Sorry Harry K but I'm tagging onto a response from Billy. (Thanks Billy
for
responding as otherwise I wouldn't have seen this) I have not ever seen
any
post from you Harry on this subject but your comment suggests that you
have
written something on this before. I have seen no other post from you
other
than this reply from Billy.

As I mentioned earlier, a stream can indeed be used to operate a ram.
And
indeed it can be used in just the way you describe. But as I also wrote
there MUST be a drop. That drop does not have to be like a mini
waterfall
immediatley above the ram. It can as you mention come from a
considerable
distance upstream (usually by pipe) to allow for the drop into the ram.
Any 'normal person' with half a brain cell should be able to figure out
that
water flowing to a ram downstream from an intake pipe forms a 'drop'.
And a
'drop' there must be (at least there must be a drop unless they have
inveneted something new that no longer operate using water hammer
principles)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Aha. The post I was replying to read like you were saying there had
to be something like a mini waterfall.

I dunno why you can't see my post. Perhaps you have me kill filed?

Harry K

And if you were an honorable man, you would give a citation to make your
point, instead of saying, "Go look it up." As it stands, it appears that
your pulling your information out of your back side.

Thanks again for responding Billy as I just can't see his posts. But I did
know what he meant about the inlet pipe without having to do a google.
Effectively he'd described how to obtain that drop into the ram so I knew
what he was referring to.

Harry thinks a 'normal person' wouldn't see that as a drop, but I know that
you'd know my background well enough to know that I'm quite normal in the
rural Australian sense but probably not in an urban or American sense.
Having seen so many silly questions online such as can someone drink
rainwater, or drink water collected off a roof or (grasp!!) even use it on
vegetables, I'm always stunned at such lack of awareness of water and it's
provision to house, animals and garden.

On Wed, 02 Jun 2010 18:31:51 +1000, FarmI wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
Harry K wrote:
On Jun 1, 8:29 pm, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
"Billy" wrote in message

In article

,
Harry K wrote:

On May 31, 7:44 pm, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
"John Gilmer" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
. au...
"John Gilmer" wrote in message
"Bob Noble" wrote in message
.. .
It looks more to me like that is a bridge used to support
a big
pump
for some kind of irrigation. Note the pump in the middle
with the
overhead to rise the pump.

I suspect that the "bridge" served to hold a "hydralic ram"
which
uses
the velocity of the water to pump a small portion of the
water to
the
level of the surrounding fields.

Nope. Hydraulic rams need a head of water above the pump so
that the
water drops into the ram. - its the action of the water
falling into
the
ram that makes the pumping happen.

Nope, yourself.

You just don't understand how a hydralic ram operates.

I do but I'd love to see a cite that would prove me wrong. I
have a use
for
such a beast.

It uses the kinetic energy of a stream to raise a small
portion of
water
well above the level of the stream.

A stream can certainly be used to do that with a hydraulic ram
but the
stream must allow the water to drop into the ram not just flow
past it
gently like the water does in a slow moving irrigation channel.

I'd certainly be very interested to see a pic of any hydraulic
ram that
works as you say it will. I can't see how a slow moving stream
can make
use of the water hammer effect that gives the 'ram' its name
but I'd
certainly like to know more details. Can you post a cite
please.- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The system I referred to sat right on the edge of the stream. The
stream was a 'gentle one'. The input pipe ran a distance up the
stream so I guess you could say 'dropping into the ram'. Yes,
there has to be an elevation difference but there is no "dropping
into the ram' in any sense the normal person would use.

You could look it up on the 'net.

Harry K

Sorry Harry K but I'm tagging onto a response from Billy. (Thanks
Billy for
responding as otherwise I wouldn't have seen this) I have not ever
seen any
post from you Harry on this subject but your comment suggests that
you have
written something on this before. I have seen no other post from you
other
than this reply from Billy.

As I mentioned earlier, a stream can indeed be used to operate a
ram. And
indeed it can be used in just the way you describe. But as I also
wrote there MUST be a drop. That drop does not have to be like a
mini waterfall
immediatley above the ram. It can as you mention come from a
considerable
distance upstream (usually by pipe) to allow for the drop into the
ram. Any 'normal person' with half a brain cell should be able to
figure out that
water flowing to a ram downstream from an intake pipe forms a
'drop'. And a
'drop' there must be (at least there must be a drop unless they have
inveneted something new that no longer operate using water hammer
principles)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Aha. The post I was replying to read like you were saying there had
to be something like a mini waterfall.

I never said any such thing!!!! But in an odd way, you have hit the
nail on the head as to why the bridge could never have been used for a
hydraulic ram (more below).

A 'head' of water can be provided by a pipe bring the water some
distance as we've both already agreed. It CAN also be provided by a
waterfall or even a header tank (not that I mentioned any means of how
the drop was achieved to the ram despite what you erroneously thought).

But to go back to that bridge which is high above an irrigation channel.
As you probably know, irrigation channels are a body of slow moving
water and they are on very gently slope. Just how far upstream do you
think the inlet pipe would need to be to provide a head for a hydraulic
ram situated that high above the water on that particular bridge? That
bridge never held any ram because as we both know, there needs to be
that 'drop'. How many miles would a pipe have been run back up that
irrigation channel to allow a drop to run a ram sitting up on that
bridge?

Referring to the photo, I disagree with "high above".

http://personal.morris.umn.edu/~webb...ndeBridge2.jpg

One of the puzzling things about the possibility of it having been used
as a conventional bridge is that it was set down into cuts in the banks.

Also, the previous exchange in context was:

John Gilmer wrote:
"I suspect that the "bridge" served to hold a "hydralic ram" which uses
the velocity of the water to pump a small portion of the water to the
level of the surrounding fields."

Farm1 replied:
"Nope. Hydraulic rams need a head of water above the pump so that the
water drops into the ram. - its the action of the water falling into
the ram that makes the pumping happen."

Part of the reason I interpreted your "drops" and "falling" literally was
that you were explicitly disagreeing ("Nope") with what John G wrote.


I dunno why you can't see my post. Perhaps you have me kill filed?

I don't know if I have you kfed or not. I tend to killfile habitual
drongos or loonies. Sometimes posts just go missing. It seems to be
happening more as time goes on and ISPs are getting funny about usenet.

Thanks again for responding Billy as I just can't see his posts. But I
did know what he meant about the inlet pipe without having to do a google.
Effectively he'd described how to obtain that drop into the ram so I knew
what he was referring to.

Harry thinks a 'normal person' wouldn't see that as a drop, but I know
that you'd know my background well enough to know that I'm quite normal in
the rural Australian sense but probably not in an urban or American sense.
Having seen so many silly questions online such as can someone drink
rainwater, or drink water collected off a roof or (grasp!!) even use it on
vegetables, I'm always stunned at such lack of awareness of water and
it's provision to house, animals and garden.

Obviously, there has to be some kind of "drop" or the stream wouldn't flow
and it would only be a long, narrow, stagnant pond.

But if it has any kind of flow it's possible to run a pipe upstream and, if
necessary, construct a small "dam" to concentrate the flow into your ram
inlet. The ""dam" would only have to be, say, 6" high!

What matters to the ram isn't necessarily the "head" (which may only be a
few inches) but the amount of the flow, and the diameter and length of the
inlet pipe.

That's the "MAGIC" of the hydralic ram: it can derive some useful work
(namely pumping water "uphill" from 6' to 20') from a so-so stream that most
folks would consider useless for power generation purposes.

Obviously, the greater the "head" at the inlet pipe entrance, the easier it
is to get a significant flow going and the large the hydralic ram can be and
the more water you can pump.

I have only seen ONE hydralic ram in actual use. It was in Western NC. I
was visiting the family home of a then girlfriend and her dad was interested
in them. He took me to the home of someone he knew and he showed off his
pump. The "stream" was small but seemed to have a good flow. I don't
remember how long the inlet pipe was. Anyway, the pump kept operating 24/7
and keep a water tank above the level of the house filled. IOW: this guy
had running water without using any electric power. The total lift was on
the order of 15' to 20' from the stream bed.

BTW: my girl friend's fanukt house was about half way up what they called a
"mountain." They got their water from a spring located some 100' up the
slope and some 20' higher in elevation. Thus, they too had running water
without needing any kind of pump. In the winter, to keep it from freezing
they simply let the water run 24/7.

"Ann" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 02 Jun 2010 18:31:51 +1000, FarmI wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
Harry K wrote:
On Jun 1, 8:29 pm, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
"Billy" wrote in message

In article

,
Harry K wrote:

On May 31, 7:44 pm, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
"John Gilmer" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
. au...
"John Gilmer" wrote in message
"Bob Noble" wrote in message
.. .
It looks more to me like that is a bridge used to support
a big
pump
for some kind of irrigation. Note the pump in the middle
with the
overhead to rise the pump.

I suspect that the "bridge" served to hold a "hydralic ram"
which
uses
the velocity of the water to pump a small portion of the
water to
the
level of the surrounding fields.

Nope. Hydraulic rams need a head of water above the pump so
that the
water drops into the ram. - its the action of the water
falling into
the
ram that makes the pumping happen.

Nope, yourself.

You just don't understand how a hydralic ram operates.

I do but I'd love to see a cite that would prove me wrong. I
have a use
for
such a beast.

It uses the kinetic energy of a stream to raise a small
portion of
water
well above the level of the stream.

A stream can certainly be used to do that with a hydraulic ram
but the
stream must allow the water to drop into the ram not just flow
past it
gently like the water does in a slow moving irrigation channel.

I'd certainly be very interested to see a pic of any hydraulic
ram that
works as you say it will. I can't see how a slow moving stream
can make
use of the water hammer effect that gives the 'ram' its name
but I'd
certainly like to know more details. Can you post a cite
please.- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The system I referred to sat right on the edge of the stream. The
stream was a 'gentle one'. The input pipe ran a distance up the
stream so I guess you could say 'dropping into the ram'. Yes,
there has to be an elevation difference but there is no "dropping
into the ram' in any sense the normal person would use.

You could look it up on the 'net.

Harry K

Sorry Harry K but I'm tagging onto a response from Billy. (Thanks
Billy for
responding as otherwise I wouldn't have seen this) I have not ever
seen any
post from you Harry on this subject but your comment suggests that
you have
written something on this before. I have seen no other post from you
other
than this reply from Billy.

As I mentioned earlier, a stream can indeed be used to operate a
ram. And
indeed it can be used in just the way you describe. But as I also
wrote there MUST be a drop. That drop does not have to be like a
mini waterfall
immediatley above the ram. It can as you mention come from a
considerable
distance upstream (usually by pipe) to allow for the drop into the
ram. Any 'normal person' with half a brain cell should be able to
figure out that
water flowing to a ram downstream from an intake pipe forms a
'drop'. And a
'drop' there must be (at least there must be a drop unless they have
inveneted something new that no longer operate using water hammer
principles)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Aha. The post I was replying to read like you were saying there had
to be something like a mini waterfall.

I never said any such thing!!!! But in an odd way, you have hit the
nail on the head as to why the bridge could never have been used for a
hydraulic ram (more below).

A 'head' of water can be provided by a pipe bring the water some
distance as we've both already agreed. It CAN also be provided by a
waterfall or even a header tank (not that I mentioned any means of how
the drop was achieved to the ram despite what you erroneously thought).

But to go back to that bridge which is high above an irrigation channel.
As you probably know, irrigation channels are a body of slow moving
water and they are on very gently slope. Just how far upstream do you
think the inlet pipe would need to be to provide a head for a hydraulic
ram situated that high above the water on that particular bridge? That
bridge never held any ram because as we both know, there needs to be
that 'drop'. How many miles would a pipe have been run back up that
irrigation channel to allow a drop to run a ram sitting up on that
bridge?

Referring to the photo, I disagree with "high above".

Well you may disagree but it'd be at least 4 ft to the top of a hydraulic
ram situated on that bridge.

http://personal.morris.umn.edu/~webb...ndeBridge2.jpg

One of the puzzling things about the possibility of it having been used
as a conventional bridge is that it was set down into cuts in the banks.

Also, the previous exchange in context was:

John Gilmer wrote:
"I suspect that the "bridge" served to hold a "hydralic ram" which uses
the velocity of the water to pump a small portion of the water to the
level of the surrounding fields."

Farm1 replied:
"Nope. Hydraulic rams need a head of water above the pump so that the
water drops into the ram. - its the action of the water falling into
the ram that makes the pumping happen."

Part of the reason I interpreted your "drops" and "falling" literally was
that you were explicitly disagreeing ("Nope") with what John G wrote.

Am I now missing posts from you too? I haven't seen anything from you about
how you were interpreting what I wrote, but if you'd asked I'd have told you
that "Nope" was in reference to the structure being used to hold a ram.

"John Gilmer" wrote in message
...


Thanks again for responding Billy as I just can't see his posts. But I
did know what he meant about the inlet pipe without having to do a
google. Effectively he'd described how to obtain that drop into the ram
so I knew what he was referring to.

Harry thinks a 'normal person' wouldn't see that as a drop, but I know
that you'd know my background well enough to know that I'm quite normal
in the rural Australian sense but probably not in an urban or American
sense. Having seen so many silly questions online such as can someone
drink rainwater, or drink water collected off a roof or (grasp!!) even
use it on vegetables, I'm always stunned at such lack of awareness of
water and it's provision to house, animals and garden.

Obviously, there has to be some kind of "drop" or the stream wouldn't flow
and it would only be a long, narrow, stagnant pond.

Yes, obviously.

But if it has any kind of flow it's possible to run a pipe upstream and,
if necessary, construct a small "dam" to concentrate the flow into your
ram inlet. The ""dam" would only have to be, say, 6" high!

Yes, but we're revisiting old ground now. If you have another look at the
pics again and think about how far back you'd need to run a pipe to even get
a 6 inch head above a ram if it was perched on the top of the bridge. The
situation Harry mentioned of the ram on the side of the stream might be
possible at a pinch, but I still can't see it as being possible for sitting
on the structure in that sort of irrigation channel.

I never said any such thing!!!! But in an odd way, you have hit the nail
on the head as to why the bridge could never have been used for a
hydraulic ram (more below).

A 'head' of water can be provided by a pipe bring the water some distance
as we've both already agreed. It CAN also be provided by a waterfall or
even a header tank (not that I mentioned any means of how the drop was
achieved to the ram despite what you erroneously thought).

But to go back to that bridge which is high above an irrigation channel.
As you probably know, irrigation channels are a body of slow moving water
and they are on very gently slope. Just how far upstream do you think the
inlet pipe would need to be to provide a head for a hydraulic ram situated
that high above the water on that particular bridge? That bridge never
held any ram because as we both know, there needs to be that 'drop'. How
many miles would a pipe have been run back up that irrigation channel to
allow a drop to run a ram sitting up on that bridge?


1. it has not been established that this is, in fact, an irrigation ditch
(probably initially constructed as a drainage ditch) or its characteristics.

2. Nobody, until now, mentioned that the hydraulic ram was itself located on
top of the bridge deck. It was said the bridge could have "held" a
hydraulic ram. Just like it could hold a pump IN the water.

3. your "nope" sounded as if you were disagreeing with the described nature
of a hydraulic ram.

sounds like you are changing your story again.

"Wallace" wrote in message
...

I never said any such thing!!!! But in an odd way, you have hit the nail
on the head as to why the bridge could never have been used for a
hydraulic ram (more below).

A 'head' of water can be provided by a pipe bring the water some distance
as we've both already agreed. It CAN also be provided by a waterfall or
even a header tank (not that I mentioned any means of how the drop was
achieved to the ram despite what you erroneously thought).

But to go back to that bridge which is high above an irrigation channel.
As you probably know, irrigation channels are a body of slow moving water
and they are on very gently slope. Just how far upstream do you think
the inlet pipe would need to be to provide a head for a hydraulic ram
situated that high above the water on that particular bridge? That
bridge never held any ram because as we both know, there needs to be that
'drop'. How many miles would a pipe have been run back up that
irrigation channel to allow a drop to run a ram sitting up on that
bridge?


1. it has not been established that this is, in fact, an irrigation ditch
(probably initially constructed as a drainage ditch) or its
characteristics.

It might be established by you that it's one of those canals on Jupiter.

2. Nobody, until now, mentioned that the hydraulic ram was itself located
on top of the bridge deck. It was said the bridge could have "held" a
hydraulic ram. Just like it could hold a pump IN the water.

It might also have 'held' a flying saucer in the ditch.

3. your "nope" sounded as if you were disagreeing with the described
nature of a hydraulic ram.

Your comments sound like you're a whiner.

sounds like you are changing your story again.

Sounds like you still have no idea about hydraulic rams.