Times are different than the thirties. Banks in the seventies were
struggling with high inflation and high interest rates handcuffed by many
parts of Glass-Steagall. President Reagan removed many parts of that Act.
President Bill Clinton just finished it off. Economic times did get
better, but they also have consequences, like going into a great
depression.

Jumbo jets, gigantic transport ships the Internet and other modern
technologies have changed the world. The Glass-Steagall Act will not work
in a free trade global environment. For the Glass Steagall Act to work some
what, one first has to ban free trade.. If any nation can. In this global
corporations will just set up somewhere and black mail any nation they
choose from abroad.

Mega corps like the global banks will say "if you do not comply, your
nation will suffer economically. Restrict oil and your nation goes into a
major recession. Lower interest rates and so bankers get richer or the
wheat farmers will not get loans and starve your nation. Globalization and
modern technology made this black mail possible by major corporations. Want
electric power for those on the grid... Do as I say! My understanding even
the CEOs of these mega corporations have nice deep bunkers to hold out from
anything but the military. I believe Walmart's family bunker is worth
hundreds of millions of dollars and well armed.

Only a world government can reign in these mega corps. Why do think no one
at BP oil ever when to prison for their negligence. Mega corps have the
world by the balls! Mega corporations probably can ruin any nation on this
earth. The only way for change in my opinion is a global economic collapse
and try and form a new world government that can reign in these mega
corporations. No where to hide!

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

In article ,
Nad R wrote:

Times are different than the thirties. Banks in the seventies were
struggling with high inflation and high interest rates handcuffed by many
parts of Glass-Steagall. President Reagan removed many parts of that Act.
President Bill Clinton just finished it off. Economic times did get
better, but they also have consequences, like going into a great
depression.

Jumbo jets, gigantic transport ships the Internet and other modern
technologies have changed the world. The Glass-Steagall Act will not work
in a free trade global environment. For the Glass Steagall Act to work some
what, one first has to ban free trade.. If any nation can. In this global
corporations will just set up somewhere and black mail any nation they
choose from abroad.

Mega corps like the global banks will say "if you do not comply, your
nation will suffer economically. Restrict oil and your nation goes into a
major recession. Lower interest rates and so bankers get richer or the
wheat farmers will not get loans and starve your nation. Globalization and
modern technology made this black mail possible by major corporations. Want
electric power for those on the grid... Do as I say! My understanding even
the CEOs of these mega corporations have nice deep bunkers to hold out from
anything but the military. I believe Walmart's family bunker is worth
hundreds of millions of dollars and well armed.

Only a world government can reign in these mega corps. Why do think no one
at BP oil ever when to prison for their negligence. Mega corps have the
world by the balls! Mega corporations probably can ruin any nation on this
earth. The only way for change in my opinion is a global economic collapse
and try and form a new world government that can reign in these mega
corporations. No where to hide!

http://seattlest.com/2009/05/28/gary_snyder_has_had_it_with_you_pun.php

I believe in world states based on tribal groups. Somewhere in the the
past I saw a world map that would include the Basque's and wondering a
free S. Jersey yes.. Decentralization please like small is beautiful.

Meanwhile the Arabs seem to starting to to understand that British
conquest does not make a state. Dam imperialist good for nothing.

--
Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden

In article ,
Bill who putters wrote:

http://seattlest.com/2009/05/28/gary...th_you_pun.php

Ah, it takes me back. I arrived in the Bay Area early 60's when Snyder,
and Ginsberg would hold forth at Ferlinghetti's bookstore, "City of
Lights" in North Beach.

How's the sledding coming along?
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_vN0--mHug
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyE5wjc4XOw

In article ,
Nad R wrote:

Times are different than the thirties. Banks in the seventies were
struggling with high inflation and high interest rates handcuffed by many
parts of Glass-Steagall. President Reagan removed many parts of that Act.
President Bill Clinton just finished it off. Economic times did get
better, but they also have consequences, like going into a great
depression.
Economic times got better for the top 10%.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/28/business/28wages.html

Jumbo jets, gigantic transport ships the Internet and other modern
technologies have changed the world.
Great, now we can fly lamb from New Zealand to England with all its
attendant effects on the environment.
The Glass-Steagall Act will not work
in a free trade global environment.
Screw "free trade", bring on "fair trade". The Glass-Steagall Act was
repealled in, (what 1998?) and the blood suckers made their move. It
took 10 years to sell all the toxic derivative.

For the Glass Steagall Act to work some
what, one first has to ban free trade.. If any nation can. In this global
corporations will just set up somewhere and black mail any nation they
choose from abroad.

I think you are making my case for me.


Mega corps like the global banks will say "if you do not comply, your
nation will suffer economically. Restrict oil and your nation goes into a
major recession. Lower interest rates and so bankers get richer or the
wheat farmers will not get loans and starve your nation. Globalization and
modern technology made this black mail possible by major corporations. Want
electric power for those on the grid... Do as I say! My understanding even
the CEOs of these mega corporations have nice deep bunkers to hold out from
anything but the military. I believe Walmart's family bunker is worth
hundreds of millions of dollars and well armed.

Only a world government can reign in these mega corps. Why do think no one
at BP oil ever when to prison for their negligence. Mega corps have the
world by the balls! Mega corporations probably can ruin any nation on this
earth. The only way for change in my opinion is a global economic collapse
and try and form a new world government that can reign in these mega
corporations. No where to hide!

It is instructive to see the crowds in Cairo. The well armed police, and
paramilitary were surrounded by unarmed people, and shoved back.

Viva, Freedom
--
- Billy
“When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist.�
-Archbishop Helder Camara
http://peace.mennolink.org/articles/...acegroups.html
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth...130964689.html

Billy wrote:
In article ,
Nad R wrote:

Times are different than the thirties. Banks in the seventies were
struggling with high inflation and high interest rates handcuffed by many
parts of Glass-Steagall. President Reagan removed many parts of that Act.
President Bill Clinton just finished it off. Economic times did get
better, but they also have consequences, like going into a great
depression.
Economic times got better for the top 10%.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/28/business/28wages.html

Jumbo jets, gigantic transport ships the Internet and other modern
technologies have changed the world.
Great, now we can fly lamb from New Zealand to England with all its
attendant effects on the environment.
The Glass-Steagall Act will not work
in a free trade global environment.
Screw "free trade", bring on "fair trade". The Glass-Steagall Act was
repealled in, (what 1998?) and the blood suckers made their move. It
took 10 years to sell all the toxic derivative.

For the Glass Steagall Act to work some
what, one first has to ban free trade.. If any nation can. In this global
corporations will just set up somewhere and black mail any nation they
choose from abroad.

I think you are making my case for me.


Mega corps like the global banks will say "if you do not comply, your
nation will suffer economically. Restrict oil and your nation goes into a
major recession. Lower interest rates and so bankers get richer or the
wheat farmers will not get loans and starve your nation. Globalization and
modern technology made this black mail possible by major corporations. Want
electric power for those on the grid... Do as I say! My understanding even
the CEOs of these mega corporations have nice deep bunkers to hold out from
anything but the military. I believe Walmart's family bunker is worth
hundreds of millions of dollars and well armed.

Only a world government can reign in these mega corps. Why do think no one
at BP oil ever when to prison for their negligence. Mega corps have the
world by the balls! Mega corporations probably can ruin any nation on this
earth. The only way for change in my opinion is a global economic collapse
and try and form a new world government that can reign in these mega
corporations. No where to hide!

It is instructive to see the crowds in Cairo. The well armed police, and
paramilitary were surrounded by unarmed people, and shoved back.

Viva, Freedom

The weapon systems used against the crowds were "Made in the USA" from the
tanks to gas cans for crowd control. Remember the revolts failed in Iran
and others middle east countries. It will be interesting how this one turns
out.

I think, I can say, we both do not like the world as it is. I want the
international corporations brought down. I am for equal distribution of
wealth. I just think looking to the past for answers will not work in the
future climate of things. Corporations have learned to by pass many
existing laws. Also there are just too many people for everyone to live
like the Amish.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

In article ,
Nad R wrote:

Times are different than the thirties. Banks in the seventies were
struggling with high inflation and high interest rates handcuffed by many
parts of Glass-Steagall. President Reagan removed many parts of that Act.
President Bill Clinton just finished it off. Economic times did get
better, but they also have consequences, like going into a great
depression.

Jumbo jets, gigantic transport ships the Internet and other modern
technologies have changed the world. The Glass-Steagall Act will not work
in a free trade global environment. For the Glass Steagall Act to work some
what, one first has to ban free trade.. If any nation can. In this global
corporations will just set up somewhere and black mail any nation they
choose from abroad.

Apparently, not everyone agrees with you.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/28/opinion/28krugman.html?_r=1

January 27, 2011

Their Own Private Europe
By PAUL KRUGMAN

"The lesson of the Irish debacle, then, is very nearly the opposite of
what Mr. Ryan would have us believe. It doesn’t say “cut spending now,
or bad things will happen�; it says that balanced budgets won’t protect
you from crisis if you don’t effectively regulate your banks — a point
made in the newly released report of the Financial Crisis Inquiry
Commission, which concludes that “30 years of deregulation and reliance
on self-regulation� helped create our own catastrophe. Have I mentioned
that Republicans are doing everything they can to undermine financial
reform?"
-----
Rain today, garden tomorrow :O)
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_vN0--mHug
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyE5wjc4XOw

Billy wrote:
In article ,
Nad R wrote:

Times are different than the thirties. Banks in the seventies were
struggling with high inflation and high interest rates handcuffed by many
parts of Glass-Steagall. President Reagan removed many parts of that Act.
President Bill Clinton just finished it off. Economic times did get
better, but they also have consequences, like going into a great
depression.

Jumbo jets, gigantic transport ships the Internet and other modern
technologies have changed the world. The Glass-Steagall Act will not work
in a free trade global environment. For the Glass Steagall Act to work some
what, one first has to ban free trade.. If any nation can. In this global
corporations will just set up somewhere and black mail any nation they
choose from abroad.

Apparently, not everyone agrees with you.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/28/opinion/28krugman.html?_r=1

January 27, 2011

Their Own Private Europe
By PAUL KRUGMAN

"The lesson of the Irish debacle, then, is very nearly the opposite of
what Mr. Ryan would have us believe. It doesn’t say “cut spending now,
or bad things will happen�; it says that balanced budgets won’t protect
you from crisis if you don’t effectively regulate your banks � a point
made in the newly released report of the Financial Crisis Inquiry
Commission, which concludes that “30 years of deregulation and reliance
on self-regulation� helped create our own catastrophe. Have I mentioned
that Republicans are doing everything they can to undermine financial
reform?"
-----
Rain today, garden tomorrow :O)

I know that most will disagree with me. I do agree that the banks went
wild. So are you saying that the US is responsible for Europe's financial
collapse because Glass-Steagall also controls the worlds banks. Does not
Europe have their own banking laws? I can see removing Glass-Steagall can
wreck the U.S. Banks, but Europe's banks as well? So Europe's banks are
controlled by our laws? I find this hard to believe.

I see the real-estate collapse more due to free trade, people loose their
jobs to slave labor nations like China, then they cannot make their house
payment, then property values drop, then banks assets go down, then banks
fail.

So Europe does not have their own banking laws, they use the U.S. Laws?

It is not U.S. Banking laws, it is evolution of the worlds economics
systems. What was true then is not true today. I will use physics as a
metaphor, Galileo stated "Mass is independent of Gravity", Newton proved
this wrong with his Laws of Gravity. Newton stated "Time was independent of
everything". Einstein proved that statement was wrong with his theories of
Relativity ( more fact than theory ). And between each time period for
hundreds of years, people believed they were correct until proven wrong.

Economics is more art, than science, Economics is more trial and error that
has evolved over the years and still evolving.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

In article ,
Nad R wrote:


I know that most will disagree with me. I do agree that the banks went
wild. So are you saying that the US is responsible for Europe's financial
collapse because Glass-Steagall also controls the worlds banks. Does not
Europe have their own banking laws? I can see removing Glass-Steagall can
wreck the U.S. Banks, but Europe's banks as well? So Europe's banks are
controlled by our laws? I find this hard to believe.

Some of them bought the same high performing, toxic derivatives that our
banks did. But whether you're talking Ireland, or Spain, or Greece, the
story is the same. They got the money, and we got the bill.
--
- Billy
"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist."
-Archbishop Helder Camara
http://peace.mennolink.org/articles/...acegroups.html
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth...130964689.html

Billy wrote:
In article ,
Nad R wrote:


I know that most will disagree with me. I do agree that the banks went
wild. So are you saying that the US is responsible for Europe's financial
collapse because Glass-Steagall also controls the worlds banks. Does not
Europe have their own banking laws? I can see removing Glass-Steagall can
wreck the U.S. Banks, but Europe's banks as well? So Europe's banks are
controlled by our laws? I find this hard to believe.

Some of them bought the same high performing, toxic derivatives that our
banks did. But whether you're talking Ireland, or Spain, or Greece, the
story is the same. They got the money, and we got the bill.

My point, the past and present banking laws failed for every nation!

Not, just toxic derivatives. Europe also formed it own free trade
agreements within Europe called E.U. and even created their own
multinational currency. The greater the markets the more efficient
companies become and need fewer workers. That means less Europeans making
money, Europeans defaulting on their loans, European's properties
devaluating, European banks go under. This is the THEY, the corporate rich,
those that profit from having larger international markets.

When property values decline, those property values become toxic. When
property values decline will also effect the stock markets. The stock
markets are no longer a place for investments, the stock market is a
casino. Stocks and bonds are part of those toxic derivatives ( which is
gambling in it's self ). The stock market is an indicator for the rich.
Trade deficit is an indicator for the poor.

However, not just banking laws. It was President Carter that allowed the US
government to purchase stocks. Before Carter it was illegal for the
government to own stocks. Many other governments of the world followed suit
and purchased stocks and bonds as well, which drove the stock markets even
higher. If the governments did not buy stocks, the world would not be in a
mess also. I believe this did far more damage than removing Glass-Steagal.
I often wonder how much money the governments are putting in, just to keep
the markets from collapsing, just to help the rich stay rich.

The only answer to solve these problems is the formation of a NEW WORLD
GOVERNMENT with a new world currency. However, a new world currency will
fail without a world government to force international laws. But to do
this, the people of Earth have to give up this notion called nationalism
and patriotism.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

On Jan 31, 2:24*am, Nad R wrote:
Billy wrote:
In article ,
*Nad R wrote:

[...]
The only answer to solve these problems is the formation of a NEW WORLD
GOVERNMENT with a new world currency. *However, a new world currency will
fail without a world government to force international laws. But to do
this, the people of Earth have to give up this notion called nationalism
and patriotism.

Good luck, o, kind and loving heart!

We are still animals, with a very thin veneer of civilization, easily
ripped off.

HB

Higgs Boson wrote:
On Jan 31, 2:24 am, Nad R wrote:
Billy wrote:
In article ,
Nad R wrote:

[...]
The only answer to solve these problems is the formation of a NEW WORLD
GOVERNMENT with a new world currency. However, a new world currency will
fail without a world government to force international laws. But to do
this, the people of Earth have to give up this notion called nationalism
and patriotism.

Good luck, o, kind and loving heart!

We are still animals, with a very thin veneer of civilization, easily
ripped off.

HB

I am a sceptic at heart. I do not expect this to happen. I expect chaos
instead.
However, I state this as the best possible solution to the worlds problems.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

In article ,
Nad R wrote:

However, not just banking laws. It was President Carter that allowed the US
government to purchase stocks. Before Carter it was illegal for the
government to own stocks. Many other governments of the world followed suit
and purchased stocks and bonds as well, which drove the stock markets even
higher. If the governments did not buy stocks, the world would not be in a
mess also. I believe this did far more damage than removing Glass-Steagal.

Really, when Glass Steagal prevented excessive leveraging? Leveraging
that went to $35 in commitments to $1 in cash on hand after Glass
Steagal was repealed. Then when the investment banks got our money, and
were given 0% interest loans, did they make that money available to
business in the form of loans? No, they took their (our) money and
invested it at 3% interest in T- bills, gave bonuses all around, and
headed on out to expensive resorts for retreats, uh-huh.

Meanwhile back in Athens, Papandreou tried to allay public anger
byÂ*promising to lower corporate taxes in an effort to revive the
debt-plagued country's shrinking economy.

He said the tax rate on companies' retained profits would be cut from 24
to 20 per cent next year, providing what he called "a strong incentive
for investments and competitiveness'.'

He promised to also deregulate the energy market, settle on
privatisation targets and simplify business licensing procedures by the
end of 2010.

HeÂ*said it would overhaul loss-making state firms including Hellenic
Railways (OSE), which has debts of $13.62bn, by cutting payroll and rail
services. (Cutting train service means more money spent on oil and
gasoline to move people and goods in Greece.)

Laurence Lee, Al Jazeera's correspondent in Thessaloniki, said: "What
the protesters want more than anything is for money not to be taken from
them but from the rich. In his speech Papandreou acknowledged that.
"He said he accepted the economic measures had been unpopular. He said
he knew it was unfair to be taking money from the poor to the rich but
said it was vital for Greece.
----

Does any of this sound familiar to you? We aren't that far from being in
the same situation.

What are our options?

Viva Tunisia, Viva Egypt
(where the demonstrators know that the police and para-militaries got
their training and supplies (tear gas, bullets, tanks, and F-16s from
the United States)
--
- Billy
"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist."
-Archbishop Helder Camara
http://peace.mennolink.org/articles/...acegroups.html
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth...130964689.html

In article
,
Billy wrote:

What are our options?

I know of nothing other than letting things that disrupt pass and
supporting things that aid the common good. We know good when we see it
but only can act when it occurs or cause it to occur. Folks in power
have a wider range of influence those in lesser positions work resides
nearby.
Confucian thought. When the individual is well the family is well.
Then the county can be well and the state will be well. Throws
importance to the primary.
Seems with our misplaced military spending we are some what sick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAd0jOuQg8o

Sun thinking about going down
Cold with a promise of more
Sand on the walk ways but a fall is never far
Slow and steady and no where to go
Went this morning and we are whole
Still extended comes to mind

--
Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden

http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/

Billy wrote:
In article ,
Nad R wrote:

However, not just banking laws. It was President Carter that allowed the US
government to purchase stocks. Before Carter it was illegal for the
government to own stocks. Many other governments of the world followed suit
and purchased stocks and bonds as well, which drove the stock markets even
higher. If the governments did not buy stocks, the world would not be in a
mess also. I believe this did far more damage than removing Glass-Steagal.

Really, when Glass Steagal prevented excessive leveraging? Leveraging
that went to $35 in commitments to $1 in cash on hand after Glass
Steagal was repealed. Then when the investment banks got our money, and
were given 0% interest loans, did they make that money available to
business in the form of loans? No, they took their (our) money and
invested it at 3% interest in T- bills, gave bonuses all around, and
headed on out to expensive resorts for retreats, uh-huh.

I guess your not old enough to remember or have a short memory of the super
high inflation days of Nixon and Carter. Companies could not afford those
double digit high Interest rates for expanding. Next to impossible to get a
home loan because banks then had little money. I was getting 13% on my time
deposits in the seventies. Everyone took the money out of banks and put
their money into the better paying stock markets in which dividends were
running about 15% annual rates. Banks were unable to compete with the stock
market due to very old and very restrictive banking laws.

It was Ronald Reagan that started the dismantling of the Glass-Steagle.
Then the banks were now able to get moving again and inflation started to
drop. But like many inflexible laws the pendulum started to swing far far
to the other side. The problem with many laws are they are not flexible
enough to change with the times.

Need to remember your history in order to improve the future. To learn from
our mistakes. Not just keep from repeating past mistakes. The world needs
laws that are flexible, not strict laws. Strict laws work well, only in the
short term.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)