Hello,

The soil in our yard appears to need nitrogen and calcium. The stuff
I've read, and the advice I've been told, says to add soil amendments.

How?

Okay. I'm far from an expert. Let's start at the beginning.

If I add something like dolomite (for calcium), I'm told that will
kill microinvertebrates and make the lawn dependent on chemical
fertilizers indefinitely. I don't want that!

So let's add compost. But, in order to add enough calcium in compost
form, I'd have to add several inches (in vertical depth) of of
compost. That would smother the lawn. Nope. Not gonna do it. I
don't want to re-plant the lawn.

Obviously I can't believe everything I hear or read.

What do you suggest?

Thank you.

Ted Shoemaker

Ted Shoemaker wrote:
Hello,

The soil in our yard appears to need nitrogen and calcium. The stuff
I've read, and the advice I've been told, says to add soil amendments.

How?

Okay. I'm far from an expert. Let's start at the beginning.

If I add something like dolomite (for calcium), I'm told that will
kill microinvertebrates and make the lawn dependent on chemical
fertilizers indefinitely. I don't want that!

Who told you that? I've never heard such a thing.

Ted Shoemaker wrote:
Hello,

The soil in our yard appears to need nitrogen and calcium. The stuff
I've read, and the advice I've been told, says to add soil amendments.


How do you know this?

How?

Okay. I'm far from an expert. Let's start at the beginning.

If I add something like dolomite (for calcium), I'm told that will
kill microinvertebrates and make the lawn dependent on chemical
fertilizers indefinitely. I don't want that!

Firstly don't add dolomite to improve just calcium, it contains calcium and
magnesium which need to be kept in balance. Generally dolomite is used
where both calcium and magnesium are required and to change the balance
towards magnesium. Instead add garden lime (calcium carbonate) if you want
to raise the pH or gypsum (calcium sulphate) if you don't want to change the
pH. All these are natural minerals which have been used by gardeners for
centuries.

Secondly the microflora will not be killed by adding any of these is
sensible quantities. Yes you could cause damage by changing the pH very
quickly by adding something like builder's lime (calcium hydroxide) but you
don't want to do that. Adding reasonable amounts of dolomite or garden lime
will not make your lawn dependent on chemicals. I don't know where this
idea of dependency comes from.

Nitrogen can be added in many ways, I prefer bird manure (pelletised chicken
manure is commonly available) but synthetic fertilisers will do the job
without causing the last trumpet to sound. Be warned that synthetics are
more concentrated and so can be over done easily and nitrogen compounds
leach out quickly if the soil structure is poor. This will waste your money
and pollute the nearby waterways.


So let's add compost. But, in order to add enough calcium in compost
form, I'd have to add several inches (in vertical depth) of of
compost. That would smother the lawn. Nope. Not gonna do it. I
don't want to re-plant the lawn.


Compost is good for depleted soil for many reasons but it will not increase
calcium very much if at all.

Obviously I can't believe everything I hear or read.

What do you suggest?

Thank you.


Ted where did you get this information? Have you tested the pH? If not do
so before you act.

David

"Ted Shoemaker" wrote in message
...
Hello,

The soil in our yard appears to need nitrogen

a fairly simple solution, but one that is long term, to get nitrogen fixed
in your lawn is through adding clovers. Try oversowing the lawn with a
clover mix in autumn.

rob

In article
,
Ted Shoemaker wrote:

Hello,

The soil in our yard appears to need nitrogen and calcium. The stuff
I've read, and the advice I've been told, says to add soil amendments.

How?

Okay. I'm far from an expert. Let's start at the beginning.

If I add something like dolomite (for calcium), I'm told that will
kill microinvertebrates and make the lawn dependent on chemical
fertilizers indefinitely. I don't want that!

So let's add compost. But, in order to add enough calcium in compost
form, I'd have to add several inches (in vertical depth) of of
compost. That would smother the lawn. Nope. Not gonna do it. I
don't want to re-plant the lawn.

Obviously I can't believe everything I hear or read.

What do you suggest?

Thank you.

Ted Shoemaker

Add pulverized egg shells (put in blender with some water) to your lawn.
Egg shells breakdown slowly, so you won't get a quick response, but they
will break down eventually.
--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYIC0eZYEtI
http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2011/3/7/michael_moore
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZkDikRLQrw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyE5wjc4XOw

Billy wrote:

Add pulverized egg shells (put in blender with some water) to your
lawn. Egg shells breakdown slowly, so you won't get a quick response,
but they will break down eventually.


Get serious. Ted already has enough goofy advice. If the lawn is no
bigger than 3m square and he has 5 years to wait this is a good idea.

David

In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Billy wrote:

Add pulverized egg shells (put in blender with some water) to your
lawn. Egg shells breakdown slowly, so you won't get a quick response,
but they will break down eventually.


Get serious. Ted already has enough goofy advice. If the lawn is no
bigger than 3m square and he has 5 years to wait this is a good idea.

David

Explain your goofy response.
--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYIC0eZYEtI
http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2011/3/7/michael_moore
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZkDikRLQrw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyE5wjc4XOw

"David Hare-Scott" wrote
Billy wrote:

Add pulverized egg shells (put in blender with some water) to your
lawn. Egg shells breakdown slowly, so you won't get a quick response,
but they will break down eventually.

Get serious. Ted already has enough goofy advice. If the lawn is no
bigger than 3m square and he has 5 years to wait this is a good idea.

Grin, I do save up the shells to amend a small container but I'm not sure it
really does much. More of a science experiement for the fun of it. That
container is used for spinaches and such.

Billy wrote:
In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Billy wrote:

Add pulverized egg shells (put in blender with some water) to your
lawn. Egg shells breakdown slowly, so you won't get a quick
response, but they will break down eventually.


Get serious. Ted already has enough goofy advice. If the lawn is
no bigger than 3m square and he has 5 years to wait this is a good
idea.

David

Explain your goofy response.

I appreciate your aim of re-use and recycle but in this case it isn't
practical.

How many eggs do you have to eat to get enough shell to spread on a yard?
Sure it depends on the size of the yard but we are talking about some kilos
of egg shell.

How fine can you grind it? Not very fine without a mill. Fine garden lime
or gypsum will take months to work, ground shell will be much coarser and
take years.


David

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
Billy wrote:
In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Billy wrote:

Add pulverized egg shells (put in blender with some water) to your
lawn. Egg shells breakdown slowly, so you won't get a quick
response, but they will break down eventually.


Get serious. Ted already has enough goofy advice. If the lawn is
no bigger than 3m square and he has 5 years to wait this is a good
idea.

David

Explain your goofy response.

I appreciate your aim of re-use and recycle but in this case it isn't
practical.

How many eggs do you have to eat to get enough shell to spread on a yard?
Sure it depends on the size of the yard but we are talking about some
kilos of egg shell.

How fine can you grind it? Not very fine without a mill. Fine garden
lime or gypsum will take months to work, ground shell will be much coarser
and take years.

IMO, if the OP wants to add calcium, all he/she needs to do is to just find
someone who still has a wood burning fireplace/heater, then s/he could just
spread the seived ash which contains calcium. It should be spread thinly
like icing sugar (confectioner's sugar in USian) on the top of a Victoria
Sponge cake.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_ash

For nitrogen I'd spread 'your friend and mine' - good old blood and bone.

In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Billy wrote:
In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Billy wrote:

Add pulverized egg shells (put in blender with some water) to your
lawn. Egg shells breakdown slowly, so you won't get a quick
response, but they will break down eventually.


Get serious. Ted already has enough goofy advice. If the lawn is
no bigger than 3m square and he has 5 years to wait this is a good
idea.

David

Explain your goofy response.

I appreciate your aim of re-use and recycle but in this case it isn't
practical.

How many eggs do you have to eat to get enough shell to spread on a yard?
It's a long term thing, you have to like eggs (maybe your friends or
neighbors will help out), and hopefully they are pastured egg shells
(the eggs will be better for you). It's what I do.

Obviously, if your in a rush and have money to burn, I'd probably do
rock phosphate at 50 lbs.(24 kg) per 1000 sq. ft.(100 sq. m.), unless
you wanted to adjust the pH upwards.

Sure it depends on the size of the yard but we are talking about some kilos
of egg shell.

How fine can you grind it?
I don't care. Sometimes I just crush it with my hands and toss them into
the beds. I've had time. Hopefully, I'll have more. And the shells
disappear, eventually. It's gardening;O)

Not very fine without a mill. Fine garden lime
or gypsum will take months to work, ground shell will be much coarser and
take years.
So?



David
--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYIC0eZYEtI
http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2011/3/7/michael_moore
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZkDikRLQrw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyE5wjc4XOw

In article ,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
Billy wrote:
In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Billy wrote:

Add pulverized egg shells (put in blender with some water) to your
lawn. Egg shells breakdown slowly, so you won't get a quick
response, but they will break down eventually.


Get serious. Ted already has enough goofy advice. If the lawn is
no bigger than 3m square and he has 5 years to wait this is a good
idea.

David

Explain your goofy response.

I appreciate your aim of re-use and recycle but in this case it isn't
practical.

How many eggs do you have to eat to get enough shell to spread on a yard?
Sure it depends on the size of the yard but we are talking about some
kilos of egg shell.

How fine can you grind it? Not very fine without a mill. Fine garden
lime or gypsum will take months to work, ground shell will be much coarser
and take years.

IMO, if the OP wants to add calcium, all he/she needs to do is to just find
someone who still has a wood burning fireplace/heater, then s/he could just
spread the seived ash which contains calcium. It should be spread thinly
like icing sugar (confectioner's sugar in USian) on the top of a Victoria
Sponge cake.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_ash

For nitrogen I'd spread 'your friend and mine' - good old blood and bone.

And you get this from where?, he said with reservations.

In the mean time, I found:
Lucerne - Primarily a plant source of nitrogen, Alfalfa Pellets (5-1-2)
also contains trace minerals and triacontanol, a plant growth promoter.

I use lucerne for my mulch. Makes me proud.

But for nitrogen look at http://www.plantea.com/manure.htm
and then look at the price, before you buy.
--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYIC0eZYEtI
http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2011/3/7/michael_moore
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZkDikRLQrw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyE5wjc4XOw

In article
,
Billy wrote:

How many eggs do you have to eat to get enough shell to spread on a yard?
It's a long term thing, you have to like eggs (maybe your friends or
neighbors will help out), and hopefully they are pastured egg shells
(the eggs will be better for you). It's what I do.

Obviously, if your in a rush and have money to burn, I'd probably do
rock phosphate at 50 lbs.(24 kg) per 1000 sq. ft.(100 sq. m.), unless
you wanted to adjust the pH upwards.

Bone meal would probably be the quickest, without changing the pH.
--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYIC0eZYEtI
http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2011/3/7/michael_moore
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZkDikRLQrw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyE5wjc4XOw

FarmI wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
Billy wrote:
In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Billy wrote:

Add pulverized egg shells (put in blender with some water) to your
lawn. Egg shells breakdown slowly, so you won't get a quick
response, but they will break down eventually.


Get serious. Ted already has enough goofy advice. If the lawn is
no bigger than 3m square and he has 5 years to wait this is a good
idea.

David

Explain your goofy response.

I appreciate your aim of re-use and recycle but in this case it isn't
practical.

How many eggs do you have to eat to get enough shell to spread on a
yard? Sure it depends on the size of the yard but we are talking
about some kilos of egg shell.

How fine can you grind it? Not very fine without a mill. Fine
garden lime or gypsum will take months to work, ground shell will be
much coarser and take years.

IMO, if the OP wants to add calcium, all he/she needs to do is to
just find someone who still has a wood burning fireplace/heater, then
s/he could just spread the seived ash which contains calcium. It
should be spread thinly like icing sugar (confectioner's sugar in
USian) on the top of a Victoria Sponge cake.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_ash


OK if the pH needs to be raised. As you say use it sparingly as it is quite
alkaline and some of the alkaliine stuff (the potassium salts) are soluble
and so fast acting. For a novice there are safer alternatives.

For nitrogen I'd spread 'your friend and mine' - good old blood and
bone.

Blood and bone would be fine.

David

In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

FarmI wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
Billy wrote:
In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Billy wrote:

Add pulverized egg shells (put in blender with some water) to your
lawn. Egg shells breakdown slowly, so you won't get a quick
response, but they will break down eventually.


Get serious. Ted already has enough goofy advice. If the lawn is
no bigger than 3m square and he has 5 years to wait this is a good
idea.

David

Explain your goofy response.

I appreciate your aim of re-use and recycle but in this case it isn't
practical.

How many eggs do you have to eat to get enough shell to spread on a
yard? Sure it depends on the size of the yard but we are talking
about some kilos of egg shell.

How fine can you grind it? Not very fine without a mill. Fine
garden lime or gypsum will take months to work, ground shell will be
much coarser and take years.

IMO, if the OP wants to add calcium, all he/she needs to do is to
just find someone who still has a wood burning fireplace/heater, then
s/he could just spread the seived ash which contains calcium. It
should be spread thinly like icing sugar (confectioner's sugar in
USian) on the top of a Victoria Sponge cake.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_ash


OK if the pH needs to be raised. As you say use it sparingly as it is quite
alkaline and some of the alkaliine stuff (the potassium salts) are soluble
and so fast acting. For a novice there are safer alternatives.

For nitrogen I'd spread 'your friend and mine' - good old blood and
bone.

Blood and bone would be fine.

David

Have not followed the treads but assume green manure has been
mentioned. Blood and bone is expensive I use as a special treat for
bulbs.

--
Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden

http://uppitywis.org/ live WI