This is for all those northern hemisphere people who are getting grumpy
because the frost is coming (or arrived already) and their tomatoes are
still green. It is for those not looking forward to being indoors reading
seed catalogs for the next 5 months worrying about fuel bills.

It features blossoms, new life and includes some nubile ladies and a hairy
young male wriggling naked in the clover as our many of our forebears were
wont to do at this time of year.

http://s1086.photobucket.com/albums/...Spring%202011/

David

"David Hare-Scott" wrote:
This is for all those northern hemisphere people who are getting grumpy
because the frost is coming (or arrived already) and their tomatoes are
still green. It is for those not looking forward to being indoors
reading seed catalogs for the next 5 months worrying about fuel bills.

It features blossoms, new life and includes some nubile ladies and a
hairy young male wriggling naked in the clover as our many of our
forebears were wont to do at this time of year.

http://s1086.photobucket.com/albums/...Spring%202011/

David

Hmmm... I am not one of those, I am looking forward to winter. Fall has
just now arrived. It is unusually warm here, not a single frost yet! All, I
mean all of my flowers are still in bloom. The trees are just now starting
to change colors. Soon the leaves will fall big time. I would say we are
about three weeks behind normal.

I enjoy the four seasons. Just when you get tired of the same old thing,
things start to change. In the Fall one can star gaze without bundling up
too much and still get lots of sleep at night because it is getting darker
earlier. I have about twenty good size pumpkins growing for halloween
decorations. Apple Cider and donuts are now flowing at mills. Halloween is
my favorite holiday. The costume dance parties, haunted houses, corn field
mazes, hay rides, cool weather, Apple Cider and Pumpkin Pie.

I prepay for the fuel bill, the pantry is well stocked and so is the
freezer. This week I will remove the window screens, put in the glass
windows, remove the water hoses and store the patio furniture. For me
winter is the Math and physics season, exercising the mind, learn and see
how the universe works.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad

"David Hare-Scott" wrote:
This is for all those northern hemisphere people who are getting grumpy
because the frost is coming (or arrived already) and their tomatoes are
still green. It is for those not looking forward to being indoors
reading seed catalogs for the next 5 months worrying about fuel bills.

It features blossoms, new life and includes some nubile ladies and a
hairy young male wriggling naked in the clover as our many of our
forebears were wont to do at this time of year.

http://s1086.photobucket.com/albums/...Spring%202011/

David

Hmmm... I am not one of those, I am looking forward to winter. Fall has
just now arrived. It is unusually warm here, not a single frost yet! All, I
mean all of my flowers are still in bloom. The trees are just now starting
to change colors. Soon the leaves will fall big time. I would say we are
about three weeks behind normal.

I enjoy the four seasons. Just when you get tired of the same old thing,
things start to change. In the Fall one can star gaze without bundling up
too much and still get lots of sleep at night because it is getting darker
earlier. I have about twenty good size pumpkins growing for halloween
decorations. Apple Cider and donuts are now flowing at mills. Halloween is
my favorite holiday. The costume dance parties, haunted houses, corn field
mazes, hay rides, cool weather, Apple Cider and Pumpkin Pie.

I prepay for the fuel bill, the pantry is well stocked and so is the
freezer. This week I will remove the window screens, put in the glass
windows, remove the water hoses and store the patio furniture. For me
winter is the Math and physics season, exercising the mind, learn and see
how the universe works.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad

Thanks David, some nice pictures there. I particularly enjoyed the Naked Girls in Clover!

We've had some unseasonably warm weather here over the last week but autumn is now officially back in the UK.

David Hare-Scott wrote:

This is for all those northern hemisphere people who are getting grumpy
because the frost is coming (or arrived already) and their tomatoes are
still green. It is for those not looking forward to being indoors reading
seed catalogs for the next 5 months worrying about fuel bills.

It features blossoms, new life and includes some nubile ladies and a hairy
young male wriggling naked in the clover as our many of our forebears were
wont to do at this time of year.

http://s1086.photobucket.com/albums/...Spring%202011/

thanks! i like the hairy look on the ladies.
very natural.

for some reason peach blossom picture would not
load, but the rest i could see.

weather here has been beautiful lately. it
should be warm enough through friday at least with
a bit of rain here or there in the forecast (won't
believe it until i see it). we've not even had to
turn on the heat yet (but a few nights were cool
enough to make me get out the warmer clothes for
a change).

i was enjoying my evening breeze when the combine
started harvesting the soybeans next to us. didn't
get to the peas in time. 75F in here now. very
nice.


songbird

songbird wrote:
David Hare-Scott wrote:

This is for all those northern hemisphere people who are getting
grumpy because the frost is coming (or arrived already) and their
tomatoes are still green. It is for those not looking forward to
being indoors reading seed catalogs for the next 5 months worrying
about fuel bills.

It features blossoms, new life and includes some nubile ladies and a
hairy young male wriggling naked in the clover as our many of our
forebears were wont to do at this time of year.

http://s1086.photobucket.com/albums/...Spring%202011/

thanks! i like the hairy look on the ladies.
very natural.

for some reason peach blossom picture would not
load, but the rest i could see.


Some glitch in photobucket I expect, the pic is OK at this end and has the
same origin and treatment as the rest. Photobucket does some strange
things, like much web software it seems unreliable. They recently announced
that you could set your own avatar image - it doesn't work. Also their
stats are all over the place.

weather here has been beautiful lately. it
should be warm enough through friday at least with
a bit of rain here or there in the forecast (won't
believe it until i see it). we've not even had to
turn on the heat yet (but a few nights were cool
enough to make me get out the warmer clothes for
a change).

i was enjoying my evening breeze when the combine
started harvesting the soybeans next to us. didn't
get to the peas in time. 75F in here now. very
nice.



I like the change of season, given any choice I like to travel in October
and April.

What is the connection between the harvester starting and you getting your
peas? Do you mean you were going to test harvest a few soybeans before the
harvester arrived?

D

David Hare-Scott wrote:
songbird wrote:
David Hare-Scott wrote:

This is for all those northern hemisphere people who are getting
grumpy because the frost is coming (or arrived already) and their
tomatoes are still green. It is for those not looking forward to
being indoors reading seed catalogs for the next 5 months worrying
about fuel bills.

It features blossoms, new life and includes some nubile ladies and a
hairy young male wriggling naked in the clover as our many of our
forebears were wont to do at this time of year.

http://s1086.photobucket.com/albums/...Spring%202011/

thanks! i like the hairy look on the ladies.
very natural.

for some reason peach blossom picture would not
load, but the rest i could see.

Some glitch in photobucket I expect, the pic is OK at this end and has the
same origin and treatment as the rest. Photobucket does some strange
things, like much web software it seems unreliable. They recently announced
that you could set your own avatar image - it doesn't work. Also their
stats are all over the place.

i will try it again then.


weather here has been beautiful lately. it
should be warm enough through friday at least with
a bit of rain here or there in the forecast (won't
believe it until i see it). we've not even had to
turn on the heat yet (but a few nights were cool
enough to make me get out the warmer clothes for
a change).

i was enjoying my evening breeze when the combine
started harvesting the soybeans next to us. didn't
get to the peas in time. 75F in here now. very
nice.

I like the change of season, given any choice I like to travel in October
and April.

i like the changes too.


What is the connection between the harvester starting and you getting your
peas? Do you mean you were going to test harvest a few soybeans before the
harvester arrived?

the wind was out of the south and that field is
south. too much dust in the air to be outside
in the garden harvesting the peas. we are
surrounded by soybeans this year except due east
is a field that is being taken over by poplars.
next year it will likely be corn. i'm waiting for
the armageddon when they actually plant something
different.

my own soybeans are a few weeks later than the
field soybeans. supposedly they were grown
organically before i planted them. they had a
different taste than the field beans i grew last
year so i'm hoping they'll turn out.


songbird

David Hare-Scott wrote:

This is for all those northern hemisphere people who are getting grumpy
because the frost is coming (or arrived already) and their tomatoes are
still green.

I look forward to a winter respite from gardening and mowing... and
green tomatoes are excellent fried and especially pickled.
http://www.foodwithlegs.com/?p=898

On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 16:34:46 +1100, "David Hare-Scott"
wrote:

This is for all those northern hemisphere people who are getting grumpy
because the frost is coming

LOL, we had frost this morning (Tassie)... the days are glorious
though

songbird wrote:
David Hare-Scott wrote:
songbird wrote:
David Hare-Scott wrote:

This is for all those northern hemisphere people who are getting
grumpy because the frost is coming (or arrived already) and their
tomatoes are still green. It is for those not looking forward to
being indoors reading seed catalogs for the next 5 months worrying
about fuel bills.

It features blossoms, new life and includes some nubile ladies and
a hairy young male wriggling naked in the clover as our many of our
forebears were wont to do at this time of year.

http://s1086.photobucket.com/albums/...Spring%202011/

thanks! i like the hairy look on the ladies.
very natural.

for some reason peach blossom picture would not
load, but the rest i could see.

Some glitch in photobucket I expect, the pic is OK at this end and
has the same origin and treatment as the rest. Photobucket does
some strange things, like much web software it seems unreliable.
They recently announced that you could set your own avatar image -
it doesn't work. Also their stats are all over the place.

i will try it again then.


weather here has been beautiful lately. it
should be warm enough through friday at least with
a bit of rain here or there in the forecast (won't
believe it until i see it). we've not even had to
turn on the heat yet (but a few nights were cool
enough to make me get out the warmer clothes for
a change).

i was enjoying my evening breeze when the combine
started harvesting the soybeans next to us. didn't
get to the peas in time. 75F in here now. very
nice.

I like the change of season, given any choice I like to travel in
October and April.

i like the changes too.


What is the connection between the harvester starting and you
getting your peas? Do you mean you were going to test harvest a few
soybeans before the harvester arrived?

the wind was out of the south and that field is
south. too much dust in the air to be outside
in the garden harvesting the peas. we are
surrounded by soybeans this year except due east
is a field that is being taken over by poplars.
next year it will likely be corn. i'm waiting for
the armageddon when they actually plant something
different.


I see. I don't have harvesters here. The analogous situation for me is
when nearby pasture is burned or spread with chicken litter.

my own soybeans are a few weeks later than the
field soybeans. supposedly they were grown
organically before i planted them. they had a
different taste than the field beans i grew last
year so i'm hoping they'll turn out.



One of my seed merchants offers "organically grown seeds" for some species.
Apparently this means they are better because no chemferts or sprays were
used while they were grown. Other than the possibility that such a product
was a better (or even a different) cultivar than the others I am unclear on
the exact benefits. If there is something nasty that can be transferred via
just the seed into your environment or into the seeds themselves caused by
growing non-organically? What might that be? I don't know.

If such transfer of something undesirable can be avoided by growing seed
organically wouldn't you still have the problem if somewhere in the ancestry
of the seed there were non-organic growing practices? The system seems to
rely on either having an organic provenance back to the year zero or the
assumption that the nastiness is somehow diluted over the generations. How
many generations does it take? I don't know and since I haven't seen any
evidence of what the nastiness might be it seems rather difficult to
determine.

David

songbird wrote:

the wind was out of the south and that field is
south. too much dust in the air to be outside
in the garden harvesting the peas. we are
surrounded by soybeans this year except due east
is a field that is being taken over by poplars.
next year it will likely be corn. i'm waiting for
the armageddon when they actually plant something
different.

my own soybeans are a few weeks later than the
field soybeans. supposedly they were grown
organically before i planted them. they had a
different taste than the field beans i grew last
year so i'm hoping they'll turn out.

That's the normal around here, hay, soybeans and corn, nothing else. What
else can a single farmer grow with a combine? Except many of the farmers
around here get their seeds for free if they try different strains of
soybeans and corn. One good thing is that my closest neighbors just grow
hay for their own livestock. Dust is not a problem here, after harvest when
it starts to get cold the manure gets spread on the fields. Ah that not so
fresh air.... It is not that bad, cold weather really does keep the manure
oder down.

As for the farmers down the road one can see those bright red signs with
those numbers on each sign, knowing the numbers represents a strain of the
crop and I wonder about the cross pollination. For me they are over a mile
away. So Armageddon can wait.

Here I am in Michigan, no frost yet? Green grass, flowers still in bloom.
Eighty degrees today, still getting cherry tomatoes and a few beefsteaks.
Sitting here in my easy chair typing this message with a fan turn on me...
In October!

--
Enjoy Life... Nad

David Hare-Scott wrote:
songbird wrote:
David Hare-Scott wrote:
songbird wrote:
....
weather here has been beautiful lately. it
should be warm enough through friday at least with
a bit of rain here or there in the forecast (won't
believe it until i see it). we've not even had to
turn on the heat yet (but a few nights were cool
enough to make me get out the warmer clothes for
a change).

i was enjoying my evening breeze when the combine
started harvesting the soybeans next to us. didn't
get to the peas in time. 75F in here now. very
nice.

I like the change of season, given any choice I like to travel in
October and April.

i like the changes too.


What is the connection between the harvester starting and you
getting your peas? Do you mean you were going to test harvest a few
soybeans before the harvester arrived?

the wind was out of the south and that field is
south. too much dust in the air to be outside
in the garden harvesting the peas. we are
surrounded by soybeans this year except due east
is a field that is being taken over by poplars.
next year it will likely be corn. i'm waiting for
the armageddon when they actually plant something
different.


I see. I don't have harvesters here. The analogous situation for me is
when nearby pasture is burned or spread with chicken litter.

we'll have some manure spreading going on here
too at times. the requirement is that it gets
plowed in soon after being put down, and that
does help reduce the odor a lot. burning, not
usually a problem here unless it is still like
this past night, the smoke layers from the
fireplaces are hanging around. we had to close the
doors as we both don't like the smell of smoke (i
like it, but it doesn't like me).


my own soybeans are a few weeks later than the
field soybeans. supposedly they were grown
organically before i planted them. they had a
different taste than the field beans i grew last
year so i'm hoping they'll turn out.

One of my seed merchants offers "organically grown seeds" for some species.
Apparently this means they are better because no chemferts or sprays were
used while they were grown. Other than the possibility that such a product
was a better (or even a different) cultivar than the others I am unclear on
the exact benefits. If there is something nasty that can be transferred via
just the seed into your environment or into the seeds themselves caused by
growing non-organically? What might that be? I don't know.

the main thing is to avoid the GMO strain that
is glyphosate tolerant developed by you know who...
i did grow some of those last year and they are
mostly developed for oil or animal feed and not for
taste. i used them to make soymilk and they were
a little different in taste than what i was used
to, but i used them anyways. this year instead i
bought a bag from the health food store that was
labeled organic so that means they were grown without
the use of glyphosate and were likely to not be the
same beans. i'd bought a few pounds and made soymilk
with half of them and it was noticeably different and
more like what i was used to in terms of taste. so
i'm hoping i'm on the right track. we'll see how
the harvest goes when they are ready. if they are
dry enough and don't spoil or sprout in the pods,
etc.

in my readings about beans/dry beans, Michigan is
a large producer of organic beans (but most of them
are grown east of here in the "thumb" region) and
organic green beans.

i'm not worried about transferring any specific
chemical as i think they would be broken down in
time by the critters/fungi in the soil. as these
are podded things the most residue is going to be
on the pod and not the beans (if there is any at
all).


If such transfer of something undesirable can be avoided by growing seed
organically wouldn't you still have the problem if somewhere in the ancestry
of the seed there were non-organic growing practices? The system seems to
rely on either having an organic provenance back to the year zero or the
assumption that the nastiness is somehow diluted over the generations. How
many generations does it take? I don't know and since I haven't seen any
evidence of what the nastiness might be it seems rather difficult to
determine.

no, i'm not trying to avoid the chemical/
fertilizer/heavy metal contaminants by growing
organic seeds. i don't think those are a major
problem to worry about.

the regulations are lax as far as i'm concerned,
as what i would call organic would mean that no
GMO traits could be allowed in the seed stock.
however, the coopted USoA government use of the
word "organic" means that if you cannot get GMO
free seedstock you can use the other if you must
(it all has to be documented). the main thing is
that the soil has not had certain things applied to
it for three years, the plants have to be grown
without certain things applied to them and the
harvesting techniques must make sure there is no
mix up with non organic grown seeds (if you are
using a harvester that does both you have to harvest
an amount of the organic and then consider that
non-organic to flush out the harvester). i'm pretty
sure that anyone who does enough organic growing
doesn't do this as they loose that premium price they
get on that amount. instead they just don't have the
trouble because they don't have non-organic things to
harvest.

so that's the long way of answering the questions,
but really, yes, i am trying to avoid the growing of
glyphosate resistant crops for my own consumption.
i'll have to replant from organic grown stock once
in a while to make sure any pollen drift from the
bees or air doesn't majorly alter the seeds i use,
but that is a small price to pay IMO. the taste
being noticeably different and the earlier
ripening would both be an easy marker for me to
see, i'll still probably rebuy fresh seeds once
every three or four years.

the seeds cost me about $1.00 at the health
food store. if my harvest is at all close to what
i did last year, i should be bringing in between
10-25lbs of soybeans. as the labor for growing them
was only a few hours time planting and weeding it
will be a direct cost saving to me of about $22-55
(i.e. not a major saving, but the spaces used were
likely to be left bare for the summer anyways). the
added nitrogen to the soil and the cover crop were
the nice side benefits. we'll see how the tulips do
next spring. the indirect cost savings is likely
around another $20/yr in that i alternate drink
milk and soymilk and so cut the amount of milk we
buy by about 1/3 and some food costs too as i do
eat some of the left over cooked soy bean grindings
(okura). the worms get the rest. where i lose
out is the cost of electricity for making the
soymilk. that probably runs about $0.15/gallon.

if i actually ever purchased soy milk the
cost savings would be much greater as that
runs between 4-8$/gal. but i've never gotten
into that habit (don't like the added flavorings
and sugars they put in the store brands).


songbird

Nad wrote:
songbird wrote:

the wind was out of the south and that field is
south. too much dust in the air to be outside
in the garden harvesting the peas. we are
surrounded by soybeans this year except due east
is a field that is being taken over by poplars.
next year it will likely be corn. i'm waiting for
the armageddon when they actually plant something
different.

my own soybeans are a few weeks later than the
field soybeans. supposedly they were grown
organically before i planted them. they had a
different taste than the field beans i grew last
year so i'm hoping they'll turn out.

That's the normal around here, hay, soybeans and corn, nothing else. What
else can a single farmer grow with a combine? Except many of the farmers
around here get their seeds for free if they try different strains of
soybeans and corn. One good thing is that my closest neighbors just grow
hay for their own livestock. Dust is not a problem here, after harvest when
it starts to get cold the manure gets spread on the fields. Ah that not so
fresh air.... It is not that bad, cold weather really does keep the manure
oder down.

As for the farmers down the road one can see those bright red signs with
those numbers on each sign, knowing the numbers represents a strain of the
crop and I wonder about the cross pollination. For me they are over a mile
away. So Armageddon can wait.

they probably have to fill out a report of
some kind for each row, but do not replant
from those seeds harvested anyways. very
few farmers can use their own seeds any more
by agreements they make with the seed producers.

_Food Inc_ shows one example of how the GMO
seed producers go after those who don't buy
their products.


Here I am in Michigan, no frost yet? Green grass, flowers still in bloom.
Eighty degrees today, still getting cherry tomatoes and a few beefsteaks.
Sitting here in my easy chair typing this message with a fan turn on me...
In October!

we like it.


songbird

In article ,
songbird wrote:

One of my seed merchants offers "organically grown seeds" for some species.
Apparently this means they are better because no chemferts or sprays were
used while they were grown. Other than the possibility that such a
product
was a better (or even a different) cultivar than the others I am unclear on
the exact benefits. If there is something nasty that can be transferred
via
just the seed into your environment or into the seeds themselves caused by
growing non-organically? What might that be? I don't know.

the main thing is to avoid the GMO strain that
is glyphosate tolerant developed by you know who...
i did grow some of those last year and they are
mostly developed for oil or animal feed and not for
taste. i used them to make soymilk and they were
a little different in taste than what i was used
to, but i used them anyways. this year instead i
bought a bag from the health food store that was
labeled organic so that means they were grown without
the use of glyphosate and were likely to not be the
same beans. i'd bought a few pounds and made soymilk
with half of them and it was noticeably different and
more like what i was used to in terms of taste. so
i'm hoping i'm on the right track. we'll see how
the harvest goes when they are ready. if they are
dry enough and don't spoil or sprout in the pods,
etc.

in my readings about beans/dry beans, Michigan is
a large producer of organic beans (but most of them
are grown east of here in the "thumb" region) and
organic green beans.

i'm not worried about transferring any specific
chemical as i think they would be broken down in
time by the critters/fungi in the soil. as these
are podded things the most residue is going to be
on the pod and not the beans (if there is any at
all).

Numero uno: You may want to take a peek at
http://www.amazon.com/Seeds-Deceptio...y-Engineered/d
p/0972966587/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1279731204&sr=1-1

Seeds of Deception: Exposing Industry and Government Lies About the
Safety of the Genetically Engineered Foods You're Eating [Paperback]
Jeffrey M. Smith (Author)

The main points of interest being the anti-biotic markers, cauliflower
mosaic virus, and spliceosomes.

Numero two-o: Article in todays business section that recounts that soy
oil futures are falling as as its consumption has quadrupled. The gist
of the story is that it is a good time to speculate on soybean futures.
In English, place your wagers and see the price of soybeans go up.
Commodity speculation used to be banned in the U.S. until the 1970's,
because it was detrimental to consumers.

Numero three-o: If you don't have tits now, you can get them from the
phytoestrogens in soy, or taking baths with lavender oil.

---

Short of getting GMO seeds, the next worst thing about seeds is that
they may carry the spores for wilt, or blight.

http://www.i-sis.org.uk/glyphosatePoisonsCrops.php
--
- Billy
Both the House and Senate budget plan would have cut Social Security and Medicare, while cutting taxes on the wealthy.

Kucinich noted that none of the government programs targeted for
elimination or severe cutback in House Republican spending plans
"appeared on the GAO's list of government programs at high risk of
waste, fraud and abuse."
http://www.politifact.com/ohio/state...is-kucinich/re
p-dennis-kucinich-says-gop-budget-cuts-dont-targ/

[W]e have the situation with the deficit and the debt and spending and jobs. And it¹s not that difficult to get out of it. The first thing you do is you get rid of corporate welfare. That¹s hundreds of billions of dollars a year. The second is you tax corporations so that they don¹t get away with no taxation.
- Ralph Nader
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/19/ralph_naders_solution_to_debt_crisis

songbird wrote:
David Hare-Scott wrote:

This is for all those northern hemisphere people who are getting
grumpy because the frost is coming (or arrived already) and their
tomatoes are still green. It is for those not looking forward to
being indoors reading seed catalogs for the next 5 months worrying
about fuel bills.

It features blossoms, new life and includes some nubile ladies and a
hairy young male wriggling naked in the clover as our many of our
forebears were wont to do at this time of year.

http://s1086.photobucket.com/albums/...Spring%202011/

thanks! i like the hairy look on the ladies.
very natural.


I just had a look at the photobucket stats for the Spring album. The most
accessed image by a long margin, if you believe these stats, was "Naked
girls in clover". It seems that chooks are very popular. :-)

D