Dan Espen wrote:

(...)

Legal problem?

He's complaining that someone left something that costs money on his
property. Landscapers don't dump gravel that they have to pay for
on random lots.

Only on those lots with 'unimproved' soil.
They figure, apparently that the owner won't be able to tell
the difference.

The story makes no sense.

Lots of true things make no sense.

--Winston

" writes:

Dan Espen wrote:

(...)

Legal problem?

He's complaining that someone left something that costs money on his
property. Landscapers don't dump gravel that they have to pay for
on random lots.

Only on those lots with 'unimproved' soil.
They figure, apparently that the owner won't be able to tell
the difference.

Uh no.

A contractor doesn't just find extra soil on his truck.
He buys it at a yard. Not where I live anyway.
I don't know where you are but I don't think contractors get
free soil anywhere. Even if they got free soil it's not free
to put it in your yard.

The story makes no sense.

Lots of true things make no sense.

But you're telling a story about a problem you have and claim
to want useful answers.

Now you are agreeing that your story doesn't make sense...

Beats me what's going on.

--
Dan Espen

Dan Espen wrote:
t writes:

(...)

Perhaps he was as mystified as I am about why you wanted
cracked adobe instead of soil.

I'm remediating the adobe. I notice that my shovel is
more effective in scooping it up for disposal and remediation
if there is no gravel on top of it. If I expose the adobe,
it tends to dry, which really lowers the humidity in the house, too.

Is the gravel in your area particularly soft?

But if you didn't want the
soil you should not have let them put it down.

What was I supposed to do, show up with a gun?

I did what I could. I told them what I wanted in printed
and spoken instructions.

I kept shoveling the overburden out and when the contractor
had the temerity to ask for a recommendation, I was very silent
on the subject. I'm a very enthusiastic supporter
of those few businesspeople that just 'do their jobs' and
often offer recommendations.

Not this time.

(...)

I find it interesting that these donations coincide with
landscaper visits (to neighboring properties) to a high degree.

A half inch of gravel got over your fence?
Did it rain? Are you down hill?
If so, put in a barrier (a low wall).

A low wall is unlikely to provide much of a barrier when
a 6' fence proved ineffective.

Still have no idea what you are trying to do.

I'm trying to 'garden'. My first step is to improve the soil
from it's current deplorable state. I have begun removing
and disposing of the extra clay that was added by my contractor
and I'm slowly digging past the original clay and adding
mulch. After I have soil, I hope to learn more here about
the kinds of solutions you all have developed to problems I'm
likely to encounter.

My local landfill values the overburden so highly that they
will accept nothing less than $200 a yard to allow me to
dump it on their lot. (It is not exactly gold, Dan.)

(...)

I continue to hope that one of my new friends on rec.gardens
will be willing to talk about how they:

* Converted dusty gravel into a nutritious mulch

Mulch is not nutritious. It's not meant to be.

My smiley indicates that I was joshing about the possibility
of changing rock into a material likely to provide fertilizer,
temperature moderation and soil enrichment.

(I was kidding.)

* Traded dusty gravel to a pal that needed road base for a paver
project
* Found that the county would visit and pull up clean fill dirt as a
donation on a monthly basis
* Or anything that would allow me to actually work on my garden
without having all my time wasted cleaning up someone else's mess

Still can't figure out how this stuff is getting in your yard from your
description.

I don't know either. I suspect the use of shovels, however.

--Winston

Dan Espen wrote:
t writes:

Dan Espen wrote:

(...)

Legal problem?

He's complaining that someone left something that costs money on his
property. Landscapers don't dump gravel that they have to pay for
on random lots.

Only on those lots with 'unimproved' soil.
They figure, apparently that the owner won't be able to tell
the difference.

Uh no.

A contractor doesn't just find extra soil on his truck.

It becomes 'extra' when the job is complete and there is no
requirement for the remainder. It is now a very expensive
liability. The contractor is not about to load it on his
truck and find a safe, legal, moral way to dispose of it if
he can merely litter a neighbor's lot with it. It's just
faster and cheaper to litter, especially at $200 a yard to
toss it.

He buys it at a yard. Not where I live anyway.
I don't know where you are but I don't think contractors get
free soil anywhere. Even if they got free soil it's not free
to put it in your yard.

Let's do some arithmetic. Half a yard of soil to dispose on
a neighbor's unimproved lot:

A quarter hour of labor to break on to the property, wheel the
soil in, distribute it evenly: About 5 bucks.

Done properly, it is more expensive.
An hour of labor: $20
10 miles of gas: $4
Entrance fee to a proper disposal site: $100

I figure $124 is more than $5 even ignoring the 'opportunity
cost' of tying up a laborer to move the soil to the proper
site.

The story makes no sense.

Lots of true things make no sense.

But you're telling a story about a problem you have and claim
to want useful answers.

Yes. Here are more examples:

* Tell me how to make it *more* expensive to dump this stuff
on my lot than to dispose of it properly (without endangering
me or my family).

* Tell me who will vacuum this stuff up for free and use it for
some noble purpose for the benefit of mankind, monthly.

* Tell me how to cheaply convert this stuff into a valuable commodity
that I can sell for huge bucks on eBay.

Now you are agreeing that your story doesn't make sense...

Yes. While you're at it, here are some other true things
that make no sense:

* Why are people buying photovoltaics at more than say 4c per
peak watt when the buyback period is much longer than the
owner's remaining life expectancy?

* Why are people burning diesel to convert corn into alcohol
that causes car mileage to decrease?

* Why am I expected to drive my car to do practically *anything*.

* Why are we so focused on politics when there
is not a shred of evidence it makes any difference?

There are lots of things like that.

Beats me what's going on.

Check under your ground cover some time.
The castoff chunks of concrete debris are courtesy of your
local building contractor. Please thank them for their
valuable contribution to your savings.


--Winston

" writes:

Dan Espen wrote:
t writes:

Dan Espen wrote:

(...)

Legal problem?

He's complaining that someone left something that costs money on his
property. Landscapers don't dump gravel that they have to pay for
on random lots.

Only on those lots with 'unimproved' soil.
They figure, apparently that the owner won't be able to tell
the difference.

Uh no.

A contractor doesn't just find extra soil on his truck.

It becomes 'extra' when the job is complete and there is no
requirement for the remainder. It is now a very expensive
liability. The contractor is not about to load it on his
truck and find a safe, legal, moral way to dispose of it if
he can merely litter a neighbor's lot with it. It's just
faster and cheaper to litter, especially at $200 a yard to
toss it.

If a contractor buys soil at a yard, they can return any unused
soil for refund.

If you show up with some junk from your yard, they are not going
to take it.

Yes. While you're at it, here are some other true things
that make no sense:

How very unhelpful.

Beats me what's going on.

Check under your ground cover some time.
The castoff chunks of concrete debris are courtesy of your
local building contractor. Please thank them for their
valuable contribution to your savings.

Burying building materials on a new home site is not
done where I live.

Sounds like you're in the SouthWest somewhere.
Can't say what your laws or practices are.

Also don't know how to enrich your "soil", but
mulch is a cover meant to keep down weeds.

I can assure you there are no building materials buried
anywhere on my property. I've been here long enough to know.
I've dug just about everywhere on the property in over 30 years.


--
Dan Espen

Dan Espen wrote:
t writes:

(...)

If a contractor buys soil at a yard, they can return any unused
soil for refund.

The labor to load it on his truck and the time and labor
cost to drive it to the yard far exceeds the value of the commodity.
'Better to vandalize and flee. Much cheaper and faster.

If you show up with some junk from your yard, they are not going
to take it.

I wouldn't even try.

Yes. While you're at it, here are some other true things
that make no sense:

How very unhelpful.



Beats me what's going on.

Check under your ground cover some time.
The castoff chunks of concrete debris are courtesy of your
local building contractor. Please thank them for their
valuable contribution to your savings.

Burying building materials on a new home site is not
done where I live.

It's done here all the time. 'Mostly on older,
well - established home sites, though.

Sounds like you're in the SouthWest somewhere.
Can't say what your laws or practices are.

Silicon Gulch California.
We have laws but our criminals tend to disobey them.

Also don't know how to enrich your "soil", but
mulch is a cover meant to keep down weeds.

That too.

I can assure you there are no building materials buried
anywhere on my property. I've been here long enough to know.
I've dug just about everywhere on the property in over 30 years.

Congratulations on your great luck!

--Winston

wrote:
....
I have a Freecycle ad offering this clean fill but I have
no takers.

How would you solve this problem?

clearly tresspassing, how would you
deal with people coming on your property
that aren't wanted? how are they getting
through your 6 foot fence? is the gate
locked?


songbird

wrote:
David Hare-Scott wrote:

(...)

You describe what is clearly a legal problem but you refuse to
consider legal remedies. You know who is doing it but won't take any
action against them. What are we to make of this? I begin to suspect
trolling for entertainment.

These three folks are criminals who have only one reaction
to having moral weaknesses pointed out to them.
I don't want to be 'reacted against'.

This has nothing to do with gardening. Try rec.free.legal.advice or
alt.pointless.whining

I'm losing all my gardening time recovering from
vandalism. Otherwise, my mulching project would be
much further along.

If you aren't going to deal with the vandalism, then it's your problem.

wrote:
Kay Lancaster wrote:
On Thu, 02 Aug 2012 07:59:08 -0700,
wrote:
I'm slowly converting my tiny suburban back area into a garden.

Progress is slowed because of a chronic problem of landscapers
dumping unused overburden on it.

Do you own the land? If so, they're trespassing and you can pursue
legal action.

Yes, but what then? I'd've given money to a lawyer that I cannot
afford, and now I've got a team of sore losers out for blood.

I don't believe these criminals will see the error of their
ways and never bother me again afterward. Call me pessimistic.

For them, trespassing and vandalism is just 'business'.
I can imagine what they consider 'retaliation'.

What a wuss!

Bob F wrote:

(...)

If you aren't going to deal with the vandalism, then it's your problem.

Yes. And?

Did you have a suggestion of how to do that effectively without
suffering an accidental fire, accidental smashed window, etc likely
to be meted out by these guys if I haul them into court?

Do you have some better information about the motivation for the
vandalism than I've conjectured here so that I can make it more
valuable for them to dump elsewhere?

Thanks!

--Winston

Bob F wrote:
wrote:


(...)

For them, trespassing and vandalism is just 'business'.
I can imagine what they consider 'retaliation'.

What a wuss!

Ah but an honest, law abiding likable wuss.

--Winston

songbird wrote:
wrote:
...
I have a Freecycle ad offering this clean fill but I have
no takers.

How would you solve this problem?

clearly tresspassing, how would you
deal with people coming on your property
that aren't wanted?

My question exactly. Can you talk more about that please?

how are they getting
through your 6 foot fence? is the gate
locked?

Yes, with a padlock.
It apparently takes them several seconds
to open it. The padlock has kept thousands
of law abiding folks on their side of the
fence. Criminals? Not quite so many.



--Winston

A professional victim on usenet and (unless the entire story is fabricated)
in life.



D

On Fri, 03 Aug 2012 12:40:10 -0700, "
wrote:

songbird wrote:
wrote:
...
I have a Freecycle ad offering this clean fill but I have
no takers.

How would you solve this problem?

clearly tresspassing, how would you
deal with people coming on your property
that aren't wanted?

My question exactly. Can you talk more about that please?

how are they getting
through your 6 foot fence? is the gate
locked?

Yes, with a padlock.
It apparently takes them several seconds
to open it. The padlock has kept thousands
of law abiding folks on their side of the
fence. Criminals? Not quite so many.



--Winston
12 gauge shotgon.Preferable pump with 4 magnum shots. Enjoy.

wrote:
songbird wrote:
....
clearly tresspassing, how would you
deal with people coming on your property
that aren't wanted?

My question exactly. Can you talk more about that please?

here? i'd take pictures and call the police.
temporarily setting up a motion sensitive very
bright light so that if it is happening at
night they get a bright light in the face
when the get in the yard... to make sure
the camera gets a good picture.


how are they getting
through your 6 foot fence? is the gate
locked?

Yes, with a padlock.
It apparently takes them several seconds
to open it. The padlock has kept thousands
of law abiding folks on their side of the
fence. Criminals? Not quite so many.



get a different lock. a good combination
lock. and wrap it in a good heavy wrap that
will keep the water off it so it will last.


songbird