I'm slowly converting my tiny suburban back area into a garden.

Progress is slowed because of a chronic problem of landscapers
dumping unused overburden on it.

I understand why, because our local landfill charges $200 a yard
to dump the stuff. (Ask Me How I Know This.)

I shovel and vacuum the dirt up off the clay, but a month later,
I'm gifted with another half-a-yard of fill dirt, neatly
distributed over the surface and pushed into the crawlspace under
an outbuilding.

Every week for the last decade, I've filled my garbage can
full of this soil but the amount in the back yard is a constant,
not a variable. The next larger trash can would cost me an
additional $30 a month, which I don't have to spare.

I have a Freecycle ad offering this clean fill but I have
no takers.

How would you solve this problem?

Thanks!

--Winston

On 8/2/12 7:59 AM, wrote:
I'm slowly converting my tiny suburban back area into a garden.

Progress is slowed because of a chronic problem of landscapers
dumping unused overburden on it.

I understand why, because our local landfill charges $200 a yard
to dump the stuff. (Ask Me How I Know This.)

I shovel and vacuum the dirt up off the clay, but a month later,
I'm gifted with another half-a-yard of fill dirt, neatly
distributed over the surface and pushed into the crawlspace under
an outbuilding.

Every week for the last decade, I've filled my garbage can
full of this soil but the amount in the back yard is a constant,
not a variable. The next larger trash can would cost me an
additional $30 a month, which I don't have to spare.

I have a Freecycle ad offering this clean fill but I have
no takers.

How would you solve this problem?

Thanks!

--Winston


If you really own the property, the dumping you describe is most likely
illegal. You need to identify the source accurately, taking photos or
even a video. Then file a police complaint, not only for dumping but
also for trespassing. You might also consider a civil lawsuit against
the dumper.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

David E. Ross wrote:
(...)

If you really own the property, the dumping you describe is most likely
illegal.

Well, you are right, there.

You need to identify the source accurately, taking photos or
even a video. Then file a police complaint, not only for dumping but
also for trespassing. You might also consider a civil lawsuit against
the dumper.

I don't understand.

If I give money to a lawyer, how would that limit the amount of
extra soil left on my property? I know very little about the
law, but I've never seen a lawyer knowingly use a shovel
in a moral and honest manner.

You do understand that the three individuals involved all know
where I live, yes? The police in my area are busy dealing with
murder, home invasions, arson, robbery (serious stuff).
As painful as this nuisance is, I'm not interested in being
the victim of a crime that the police would find noteworthy.

--Winston

On 8/2/2012 3:54 PM, wrote:
David E. Ross wrote:
(...)

If you really own the property, the dumping you describe is most likely
illegal.

Well, you are right, there.

You need to identify the source accurately, taking photos or
even a video. Then file a police complaint, not only for dumping but
also for trespassing. You might also consider a civil lawsuit against
the dumper.

I don't understand.

If I give money to a lawyer, how would that limit the amount of
extra soil left on my property? I know very little about the
law, but I've never seen a lawyer knowingly use a shovel
in a moral and honest manner.

You do understand that the three individuals involved all know
where I live, yes? The police in my area are busy dealing with
murder, home invasions, arson, robbery (serious stuff).
As painful as this nuisance is, I'm not interested in being
the victim of a crime that the police would find noteworthy.

--Winston

Don't know where you live but there are other authorities besides
police. Violation of county codes here can result in a fine by a county
inspector for example.

Also here, a small civil suit can be brought before a magistrate without
using a lawyer. Years ago I successfully sued the Ford motor company
for a few thousand dollars in repairs they wanted me to do.

First you should identify who is doing it and get proof. I'd set up
something like a trail camera that functions in low light.

" writes:

I'm slowly converting my tiny suburban back area into a garden.

Progress is slowed because of a chronic problem of landscapers
dumping unused overburden on it.

Are these landscapers you've asked to come and work on your
property?

I understand why, because our local landfill charges $200 a yard
to dump the stuff. (Ask Me How I Know This.)

I shovel and vacuum the dirt up off the clay, but a month later,
I'm gifted with another half-a-yard of fill dirt, neatly
distributed over the surface and pushed into the crawlspace under
an outbuilding.

Every week for the last decade, I've filled my garbage can
full of this soil but the amount in the back yard is a constant,
not a variable. The next larger trash can would cost me an
additional $30 a month, which I don't have to spare.

I have a Freecycle ad offering this clean fill but I have
no takers.

How would you solve this problem?

The rest of your post makes no sense to me.
Are these your landscapers doing something you don't like or
some random landscapers illegally dumping soil on your land?

Or are you just having us on?

--
Dan Espen

On Thu, 02 Aug 2012 07:59:08 -0700, wrote:
I'm slowly converting my tiny suburban back area into a garden.

Progress is slowed because of a chronic problem of landscapers
dumping unused overburden on it.

Do you own the land? If so, they're trespassing and you can pursue legal
action.

On 8/2/12 12:54 PM, wrote:
David E. Ross wrote:
(...)

If you really own the property, the dumping you describe is most likely
illegal.

Well, you are right, there.

You need to identify the source accurately, taking photos or
even a video. Then file a police complaint, not only for dumping but
also for trespassing. You might also consider a civil lawsuit against
the dumper.

I don't understand.

If I give money to a lawyer, how would that limit the amount of
extra soil left on my property? I know very little about the
law, but I've never seen a lawyer knowingly use a shovel
in a moral and honest manner.

You do understand that the three individuals involved all know
where I live, yes? The police in my area are busy dealing with
murder, home invasions, arson, robbery (serious stuff).
As painful as this nuisance is, I'm not interested in being
the victim of a crime that the police would find noteworthy.

--Winston


Even if the police do nothing, you should still file a criminal
complaint. You need a copy of the complaint to sue those who are
dumping on your property.

You can sue in small claims court using the copy of the complaint as
part of the evidence. You can also hire an attorney and sue for an
amount greater than the small claims limit, not only for actual damages
(the cost of removing the dumped dirt) but also for your costs (the
attorney's fees), for punitive damages, and for exemplary damages.

No, I do not believe in suing at the drop of a hat. In my 70+ years, I
have been a plaintiff only once and been sued only once. However,
repeated offenses should be punished. If the police will not do
anything, a good, solid lawsuit is a great punishment against wrong-doers.

Also, having filed a complaint with the police and having good evidence
(e.g., photos, videos) might indeed prompt a criminal prosecution,
especially if you are not the only victim.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

wrote:
David E. Ross wrote:
(...)

If you really own the property, the dumping you describe is most
likely illegal.

Well, you are right, there.

You need to identify the source accurately, taking photos or
even a video. Then file a police complaint, not only for dumping but
also for trespassing. You might also consider a civil lawsuit
against the dumper.

I don't understand.

If I give money to a lawyer, how would that limit the amount of
extra soil left on my property? I know very little about the
law, but I've never seen a lawyer knowingly use a shovel
in a moral and honest manner.

You do understand that the three individuals involved all know
where I live, yes? The police in my area are busy dealing with
murder, home invasions, arson, robbery (serious stuff).
As painful as this nuisance is, I'm not interested in being
the victim of a crime that the police would find noteworthy.

--Winston

You describe what is clearly a legal problem but you refuse to consider
legal remedies. You know who is doing it but won't take any action against
them. What are we to make of this? I begin to suspect trolling for
entertainment.

This has nothing to do with gardening. Try rec.free.legal.advice or
alt.pointless.whining

D

Frank wrote:

(...)

Don't know where you live but there are other authorities besides
police. Violation of county codes here can result in a fine by a county
inspector for example.

Also here, a small civil suit can be brought before a magistrate without
using a lawyer. Years ago I successfully sued the Ford motor company for
a few thousand dollars in repairs they wanted me to do.

First you should identify who is doing it and get proof. I'd set up
something like a trail camera that functions in low light.

OK. Thank you.

--Winston

David E. Ross wrote:

(...)

Even if the police do nothing, you should still file a criminal
complaint. You need a copy of the complaint to sue those who are
dumping on your property.

You can sue in small claims court using the copy of the complaint as
part of the evidence. You can also hire an attorney and sue for an
amount greater than the small claims limit, not only for actual damages
(the cost of removing the dumped dirt) but also for your costs (the
attorney's fees), for punitive damages, and for exemplary damages.

No, I do not believe in suing at the drop of a hat. In my 70+ years, I
have been a plaintiff only once and been sued only once. However,
repeated offenses should be punished. If the police will not do
anything, a good, solid lawsuit is a great punishment against wrong-doers.

Also, having filed a complaint with the police and having good evidence
(e.g., photos, videos) might indeed prompt a criminal prosecution,
especially if you are not the only victim.

Thanks for your insight, David.

--Winston

David Hare-Scott wrote:

(...)

You describe what is clearly a legal problem but you refuse to consider
legal remedies. You know who is doing it but won't take any action
against them. What are we to make of this? I begin to suspect trolling
for entertainment.

These three folks are criminals who have only one reaction
to having moral weaknesses pointed out to them.
I don't want to be 'reacted against'.

This has nothing to do with gardening. Try rec.free.legal.advice or
alt.pointless.whining

I'm losing all my gardening time recovering from
vandalism. Otherwise, my mulching project would be
much further along.

--Winston

Dan Espen wrote:
t writes:

I'm slowly converting my tiny suburban back area into a garden.

Progress is slowed because of a chronic problem of landscapers
dumping unused overburden on it.

Are these landscapers you've asked to come and work on your
property?

The guy I'll call Dale was. He and his team did extensive hardscape
work. I supplied him with a requirements sheet that specified
that the grade at the finish of the project was to be no higher
than the grade at the start of the project. I reinforced this
verbally a couple times during the project.

Dale is not a real good listener.

Dale was assisted by a guy I will call Richie, who
stared at me and said "I know where to put extra dirt."
when I mentioned how disappointed I was that my
requirement for an 'existing grade' finish was being
ignored.

The third guy who I will call Martin did some work for a
neighbor over the back fence this week.

I had my yard all vacuumed up, with nothing but the cracked
adobe showing, ready for me to scoop it out and replace with
mulch, again.

A couple days after Martin started my neighbor's project, my
back yard was under half an inch of powdery gravel once more.
I sighed heavily and began shoveling and vacuuming, again.

I find it interesting that these donations coincide with
landscaper visits (to neighboring properties) to a high degree.

I understand why, because our local landfill charges $200 a yard
to dump the stuff. (Ask Me How I Know This.)

I shovel and vacuum the dirt up off the clay, but a month later,
I'm gifted with another half-a-yard of fill dirt, neatly
distributed over the surface and pushed into the crawlspace under
an outbuilding.

Every week for the last decade, I've filled my garbage can
full of this soil but the amount in the back yard is a constant,
not a variable. The next larger trash can would cost me an
additional $30 a month, which I don't have to spare.

I have a Freecycle ad offering this clean fill but I have
no takers.

How would you solve this problem?

The rest of your post makes no sense to me.
Are these your landscapers doing something you don't like or
some random landscapers illegally dumping soil on your land?

Both.

Or are you just having us on?

No.

I continue to hope that one of my new friends on rec.gardens
will be willing to talk about how they:

* Converted dusty gravel into a nutritious mulch
* Traded dusty gravel to a pal that needed road base for a paver
project
* Found that the county would visit and pull up clean fill dirt as a
donation on a monthly basis
* Or anything that would allow me to actually work on my garden
without having all my time wasted cleaning up someone else's mess


--Winston

Kay Lancaster wrote:
On Thu, 02 Aug 2012 07:59:08 -0700, wrote:
I'm slowly converting my tiny suburban back area into a garden.

Progress is slowed because of a chronic problem of landscapers
dumping unused overburden on it.

Do you own the land? If so, they're trespassing and you can pursue legal
action.

Yes, but what then? I'd've given money to a lawyer that I cannot
afford, and now I've got a team of sore losers out for blood.

I don't believe these criminals will see the error of their
ways and never bother me again afterward. Call me pessimistic.

For them, trespassing and vandalism is just 'business'.
I can imagine what they consider 'retaliation'.

I briefly considered labeling my buckets of donated
overburden with: "Platinum ore samples. Please do not steal."

They would be gone in minutes.

--Winston

" writes:

Dan Espen wrote:
t writes:

I'm slowly converting my tiny suburban back area into a garden.

Progress is slowed because of a chronic problem of landscapers
dumping unused overburden on it.

Are these landscapers you've asked to come and work on your
property?

The guy I'll call Dale was. He and his team did extensive hardscape
work. I supplied him with a requirements sheet that specified
that the grade at the finish of the project was to be no higher
than the grade at the start of the project. I reinforced this
verbally a couple times during the project.

Dale is not a real good listener.

Dale was assisted by a guy I will call Richie, who
stared at me and said "I know where to put extra dirt."
when I mentioned how disappointed I was that my
requirement for an 'existing grade' finish was being
ignored.

Perhaps he was as mystified as I am about why you wanted
cracked adobe instead of soil. But if you didn't want the
soil you should not have let them put it down.

The third guy who I will call Martin did some work for a
neighbor over the back fence this week.

I had my yard all vacuumed up, with nothing but the cracked
adobe showing, ready for me to scoop it out and replace with
mulch, again.

A couple days after Martin started my neighbor's project, my
back yard was under half an inch of powdery gravel once more.
I sighed heavily and began shoveling and vacuuming, again.

I find it interesting that these donations coincide with
landscaper visits (to neighboring properties) to a high degree.

A half inch of gravel got over your fence?
Did it rain? Are you down hill?
If so, put in a barrier (a low wall).

Still have no idea what you are trying to do.

I understand why, because our local landfill charges $200 a yard
to dump the stuff. (Ask Me How I Know This.)

I shovel and vacuum the dirt up off the clay, but a month later,
I'm gifted with another half-a-yard of fill dirt, neatly
distributed over the surface and pushed into the crawlspace under
an outbuilding.

Every week for the last decade, I've filled my garbage can
full of this soil but the amount in the back yard is a constant,
not a variable. The next larger trash can would cost me an
additional $30 a month, which I don't have to spare.

I have a Freecycle ad offering this clean fill but I have
no takers.

How would you solve this problem?

The rest of your post makes no sense to me.
Are these your landscapers doing something you don't like or
some random landscapers illegally dumping soil on your land?

Both.

Or are you just having us on?

No.

I continue to hope that one of my new friends on rec.gardens
will be willing to talk about how they:

* Converted dusty gravel into a nutritious mulch

Mulch is not nutritious. It's not meant to be.

* Traded dusty gravel to a pal that needed road base for a paver
project
* Found that the county would visit and pull up clean fill dirt as a
donation on a monthly basis
* Or anything that would allow me to actually work on my garden
without having all my time wasted cleaning up someone else's mess

Still can't figure out how this stuff is getting in your yard from your
description.

--
Dan Espen

"David Hare-Scott" writes:

wrote:
David E. Ross wrote:
(...)

If you really own the property, the dumping you describe is most
likely illegal.

Well, you are right, there.

You need to identify the source accurately, taking photos or
even a video. Then file a police complaint, not only for dumping but
also for trespassing. You might also consider a civil lawsuit
against the dumper.

I don't understand.

If I give money to a lawyer, how would that limit the amount of
extra soil left on my property? I know very little about the
law, but I've never seen a lawyer knowingly use a shovel
in a moral and honest manner.

You do understand that the three individuals involved all know
where I live, yes? The police in my area are busy dealing with
murder, home invasions, arson, robbery (serious stuff).
As painful as this nuisance is, I'm not interested in being
the victim of a crime that the police would find noteworthy.

--Winston

You describe what is clearly a legal problem but you refuse to
consider legal remedies. You know who is doing it but won't take any
action against them. What are we to make of this? I begin to suspect
trolling for entertainment.

Legal problem?

He's complaining that someone left something that costs money on his
property. Landscapers don't dump gravel that they have to pay for
on random lots.

The story makes no sense.

--
Dan Espen