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Is there a better way to remove a poison oak plant than with a chainsaw?
On Tue, 8 Jan 2013 09:31:31 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote: This weekend, I needed to remove a poison oak plant along my property but the plant was too big and too much on a hill for spraying; so I cut it with an 18" chainsaw and packed it up for proper disposal. After just two hours, I was covered in the poison oak oil (my clothes came out of the wash all streaked black as if the kids had taken a black marker to them) - but I had to stop as the two recyling bins were jam packed to the brim. Since I still have a few more poison oak plants to remove, I'm wondering if you outdoor experts have a better way than what I'm doing for removal of a poison oak plant from your property? (The last picture is of me washing up!) I didn't measure it, but this one plant is about 20 feet long (or so), by about 20 feet deep down a hill - but I only removed about 5 feet along the curb as I ran out of room in the bins. I have a problem with multi-flora rose. Giant nasty rose bushes that dont die from roundup or other herbicides. Although they are not poisonous, so they could be cut with a chainsaw, but to do so would mean getting under them, and becomeing all torn up from the thorns. I designed a chain that has a loop in the end that I lay around the and hook to my farm tractor. When the tractor moves, the chain tightens around their base, and they will be ripped out of the ground. Then they go to my burn pile. However any roots left over will sprout again. But on the small young ones, roundup works. I've had some huge ones that would stop my tractor. Either the tires slip, or the engine kills. I found that the only way to get rid of those is to burn them. Dump brush and some smaller logs around them, then a gallon of diesel fuel, and ignite. They do not come back once they are burned. The OP said he can not burn the poison oak. How about soaking the base of them around the roots with diesel fuel. That almost surely will kill them. Then just let them rot. I dont know how long it takes for that oil that causes the skin irritation to go away after the plant is dead. You'd have to do research on that. Maybe your local County Extension office can help too. They seem to have info on most local problem plants. I'm sure someone will state that diesel fuel is harmful to the environment. Yes it is, but probably does less harm than many of the commercial chemicals that are used to kill plants and insects. |
#2
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Is there a better way to remove a poison oak plant than with a chainsaw?
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#3
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Is there a better way to remove a poison oak plant than with achainsaw?
On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 13:52:16 -0500, Brooklyn1 wrote:
A lot of farmers in this rural community kill poison ivy and poison sumac by applying a goodly quantity of rock salt at their base I like the idea of rock salt as it must be cheaper than the $100 containers of weed killer that I'm buying today (2.5 gallons each). http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...0/11915886.jpg This web site explains the NaCl concentration for weed killer: http://homeguides.sfgate.com/rock-sa...nts-56853.html While the NaCl appears to be effective, that page also outlines the major problem when it's applied on a hillside where my plant resides. Plus, I still need to manually remove the dead plants, which are (almost) as toxic dead as they were alive - at least for the foreseeable future. |
#4
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Is there a better way to remove a poison oak plant than with a chainsaw?
On Tue, 8 Jan 2013 20:55:49 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote: A lot of farmers in this rural community kill poison ivy and poison sumac by applying a goodly quantity of rock salt at their base I like the idea of rock salt as it must be cheaper than the $100 containers of weed killer that I'm buying today (2.5 gallons each). http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...0/11915886.jpg Hey, I'n going to give the rock salt a try. It's cheaper than diesel fuel too, and probably is safer for the environment. |
#6
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Is there a better way to remove a poison oak plant than with achainsaw?
On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 12:42:29 -0600, homeowner wrote:
How about soaking the base of them around the roots with diesel fuel. I have read that rock salt works, so that is an option which might be less harmful to the environment than diesel fuel. I've never used rock salt before, so I'd have to research how to use it on plants. |
#7
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Is there a better way to remove a poison oak plant than witha chainsaw?
On 1/8/2013 1:33 PM, Danny D. wrote:
On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 12:42:29 -0600, homeowner wrote: How about soaking the base of them around the roots with diesel fuel. I have read that rock salt works, so that is an option which might be less harmful to the environment than diesel fuel. I've never used rock salt before, so I'd have to research how to use it on plants. it can also sterilize the soil so you won't be able to plant anything. furthermore, when it rains, everything downhill may also go. |
#8
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Is there a better way to remove a poison oak plant than with achainsaw?
On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 12:42:29 -0600, homeowner wrote:
I dont know how long it takes for that oil that causes the skin irritation to go away after the plant is dead. You'd have to do research on that. I did do the research! This scientific site says it lasts 100 years! http://online.sfsu.edu/bholzman/cour...nalwebsite.htm Here's the verbatim quote from that San Francisco State web site: "What is amazing is specimens 100 years old have been known to cause dermatitis in humans, because urushiol is a relatively stable compound, and can remain potent for years in the absence of oxidation (Armstrong & Epstein 1995)." I would think that, outdoors, exposed to the elements, the urushiol would only be allergenic to humans for something on the order of perhaps only 5 or 10 years, but, the point is that the oil from Toxicodendron diversilobum will last far longer than we'd like it to. The verbatim statement from that web site below leads me to conjure the thought that this single plant on my property can infect every single person on earth, since it was literally dripping drops of sap within a few minutes of cutting the plant! "Urushiol is so incredibly toxic that it would take only one ounce of it to affect everyone on the earth with a rash (Brooks 2001)." |
#9
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Is there a better way to remove a poison oak plant than witha chainsaw?
On 1/8/2013 1:43 PM, Danny D. wrote:
On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 12:42:29 -0600, homeowner wrote: I dont know how long it takes for that oil that causes the skin irritation to go away after the plant is dead. You'd have to do research on that. I did do the research! This scientific site says it lasts 100 years! http://online.sfsu.edu/bholzman/cour...nalwebsite.htm Here's the verbatim quote from that San Francisco State web site: "What is amazing is specimens 100 years old have been known to cause dermatitis in humans, because urushiol is a relatively stable compound, and can remain potent for years in the absence of oxidation (Armstrong & Epstein 1995)." I would think that, outdoors, exposed to the elements, the urushiol would only be allergenic to humans for something on the order of perhaps only 5 or 10 years, but, the point is that the oil from Toxicodendron diversilobum will last far longer than we'd like it to. The verbatim statement from that web site below leads me to conjure the thought that this single plant on my property can infect every single person on earth, since it was literally dripping drops of sap within a few minutes of cutting the plant! "Urushiol is so incredibly toxic that it would take only one ounce of it to affect everyone on the earth with a rash (Brooks 2001)." careful, wmd searchers are currently on the way. watch for the black helicopters. |
#10
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Is there a better way to remove a poison oak plant than witha chainsaw?
On 01-08-2013 15:43, Danny D. wrote:
The verbatim statement from that web site below leads me to conjure the thought that this single plant on my property can infect every single person on earth, since it was literally dripping drops of sap within a few minutes of cutting the plant! "Urushiol is so incredibly toxic that it would take only one ounce of it to affect everyone on the earth with a rash (Brooks 2001)." There are other opinions. One source suggested that 15% are unaffected; another said thirty. I reacted severely from what was in the air when I got close to it when we first moved to Oregon. But a few years later, I could pick it without gloves and have little or no reaction. Other people who drank goat's milk reported similar experiences. We believe the milk either contains an antidote, or it contains traces of urushiol so small your body has a chance to develop a defense. But it might be something else entirely. I do think I have a strong immune system, as I never react to a smallpox vaccine. Since I had no scar, the Navy accused me of lying and vaccinated me again. And again, even though the second one (the first Navy one) was documented in my official records. Unfortunately, my immune system is now attacking my thyroid glands. -- Wes Groleau There ain't no right wing, there ain't no left wing. There's only you and me and we just disagree. (apologies to Jim Krueger) |
#11
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Is there a better way to remove a poison oak plant than with achainsaw?
On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 23:58:18 -0500, Wes Groleau wrote:
One source suggested that 15% are unaffected; another said thirty. We're talking different things, so let's clarify. 1. Nobody is immune to type IV CMI 2. But not everybody gets the rash under normal circumstances 3. Yet, almost everyone will get the rash if they get exposed to enough urushiol. It gets complicated to explain in a USENET post, but let's briefly take these in turn - but this isn't the place for detailed discussions. I. Nobody is immune. Delayed contact dermititis is a type IV CMI (cell mediated immune response), which nobody is immune to forever. Get exposed frequently enough, and you WILL get it. It's the way your body works. II. Not every gets the rash all the time This is highly dependent on dosage! Remember the oil is NOT anywhere on the outside of the plant! The oil is protectively ensconced INSIDE the cells. Of course, chain sawing the plant in half tends to allow the oils to leak out ... like this video I just took today of just that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYcJslc6ymE III. Give any human enough pure urushiol, and they ALL will get the rash! (See #I and #II above.) Anyway, while we're quoting figures, Wikipedia says the following on percentages: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urushio...act_dermatitis Verbatim: "Approximately 80% to 90% of adults will get a rash if they are exposed to 50 micrograms of purified urushiol. Some people are so sensitive, it only takes a trace of urushiol (two micrograms or less than one ten- millionth of an ounce) on the skin to initiate an allergic reaction (Epstein et al., 1974).[6]" Now, if you're exposed to less urushiol, all bets are off - but - given this picture below, I would safely say anyone exposed to this much potential urushiol had better take some safety precautions (as I do). http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11917834.jpg |
#12
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Is there a better way to remove a poison oak plant than with achainsaw?
On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 23:58:18 -0500, Wes Groleau wrote:
I reacted severely from what was in the air when I got close to it when we first moved to Oregon. But a few years later, I could pick it without gloves and have little or no reaction. Hi Wes, That is an interesting story - but I would caution anyone from actually touching the stuff because of the classic YMMV difference in every situation. The funny thing about invisible toxins is that we really don't know exactly where the stuff is, and where it isn't. For example, look at my red sweatshirt & TIG welding gloves today: http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11917872.jpg Notice I had no idea exactly WHERE the urushiol was, on Sunday, when I last wore them, but today, two days later, the oil on the gloves was sufficiently oxidized black to see it and the shirt oils were oxidized in the washing machine. The point is - you never know if you've been truly exposed or not, as it's a statistical thing. So, a LOT of people conclude they were exposed and didn't get the rash - when - in reality - they just weren't exposed (or not exposed to enough to make black marks all over their clothes). When I was in graduate school, I worked part time in a lab, and you'd be amazed at the strangest places we found P32 with the geiger counter. You can't see it - and when you find out where it got - you sit there and ponder how the hell did it get there. Now, maybe the goats milk matters - because the immune system DOES work the way you said it does (i.e., when exposed at the right time in the immune system development, the immune system learns what is body and what is foreign) - so I am NOT saying you're wrong ... I'm just cautioning anyone from actually touching the stuff with bare hands on purpose! Urushiol is no different. You didn't get it from "the air". You touched something that had a pinprick drop of oil on it. What you touched could have been 'anything' (remember, the oil is known to remain infectious for 100 years ... in a laboratory drawer anyway). The other thing to remember is that the oil is NOT on the outside of the plant. Not outside the leaves, stem, berries, or root. But it's inside all of them, so, you (and I) can pick it up (gingerly) and nothing bad will happen. But, when you do this ... now you've gotten that damn plant mad! |
#13
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Is there a better way to remove a poison oak plant than witha chainsaw?
On 01-09-2013 01:05, Danny D. wrote:
Now, maybe the goats milk matters - because the immune system DOES work the way you said it does (i.e., when exposed at the right time in the immune system development, the immune system learns what is body and what is foreign) - so I am NOT saying you're wrong ... I'm just cautioning anyone from actually touching the stuff with bare hands on purpose! TRUE--but many accidental exposures had appeared to confirm the goat's milk hypothesis. So, being young and foolish, I assumed I was immune and abandoned precautions. And got away with it. When it was my son's turn to be young and foolish, he formed the hypothesis that he could immunize himself by limited contact. If you know where to look, you can still make out the scars. The other thing to remember is that the oil is NOT on the outside of the plant. Not outside the leaves, stem, berries, or root. But it's inside all of them, so, you (and I) can pick it up (gingerly) and nothing bad will happen. Ah, I would question that as well. Before my resistance developed, the slightest contact had severe effects. By the way, some of that resistance has gone away over time. -- Wes Groleau ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI |
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