hmmph!!

pond is only a year old,, who would have thought so much black gunk was at
the bottom!!
I was sooooo careful with covering the pond to keep out leaves, ,but of
course some got in, & what added to the "gunk" was pots that tipped over,,
yucky.
I figured one year?? how could it be bad??

well this weekend, after 2 months of murky water not clearing after
filter(S) running, I decided to try to suck out the muck.
we rigged up a shop vac, Hubby decided to hook in hose from pond to a big
barrel ( it was a big plastic one) & then a hose from the barrel to the shop
vac. premise being, the muck would drop into the barrel, not filling up the
shop vac.
all, very good idea.. hmmm, I thought okk this will take under an hour....
untilll we couldn't find the big shop hose, so had to use a swimming pool
hose & house vacuum cleaner plastic suction pipes, so it was VERY small
opening to suck up the stuff( I already waited too long to do this I wasn't
going to wait another week to find the correct hose).
ok, it did work,,,,,,, BUT.... with hose so small it got clogged often,
especially with stones ( from the tipped over pots), so hubby had to stick
around & help empty the hose, needless to say I was covered in black gook,
by the time we were done, from trying to shake out the clog & it slopped out
the top on me. arrghhh.
other complication, the plastic barrel started collapsing.......
figures, maybe with a metal one & tighter seals we would have had more
pressure & no problems,, so it was back to sucking the stuff INTO the shop
vac directory, & had to be emptied every so often.
this took over 4 hours,,, I am sooooooo glad the water was not cold!

now, according to my _feet_ the bottom was now clear of crud,,, but there
was a lot of stuff floating through the water, now... am I to ever expect
the water to actually clear???

hubby was saying empty the dang thing & start over, well I did not have
places for the fish, to do that & didn't relish chasing them around catching
them, so I opted, for the "why can't THIS be done THIS way"???
I really don't want to empty the dang thing to get clear water...
*pout*. I will probably try cleaning the bottom again next week, before the
tropicals go in,, but this is ridiculous!! I cannot see myself doing this 10
yrs from now ( no one else is doing it, I keep being told its MY
pond,,,,,,),, now I can only wait to bribe my grandson when he grows up!!

(Hubby keeps telling me he has pumps at work that will empty the 4000 gal
pond in 10 min,,, but catching those fish,,,,,,not my idea of fun!!!it still
meant me gettign IN the pond!)

Hey Muffin, where have you been. Haven't seen a post for a long time. Your
lilies are blooming like crazy here.

As for cleaning the gunk at the bottom of the pond out, I still use the
method devised by richtoybox. I'll look for the link, or maybe he can
provide it.

Joe

On 5/24/04 2:52 PM, "*muffin*" wrote:

hmmph!!

pond is only a year old,, who would have thought so much black gunk was at
the bottom!!
I was sooooo careful with covering the pond to keep out leaves, ,but of
course some got in, & what added to the "gunk" was pots that tipped over,,




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I've been around (lol)

just very busy!

I was wondering how everyone's lilies are doing.. mine started blooming, but
the dang things need to be transplanted. since I lost a bunch of the soil &
stone covering them!( I used open baskets with burlap,, it did NOT keep the
soil in.)

& I am very ticked off about my lotus dying over the winter.. this was the
3rd one that did not work! ( I never had problems many years ago at my old
pond).water celery is taking over, that someone on this board sent me in
trade, I was surprised it lived!

I would love to get some new butterfly koi, but have not talked myself into
paying for the shipping.

over the winter we had our P*leco* inside a tank, with some fancy goldfish ,
etc.. one night the dang thing went berserk & killed them all..(yea I read
that warning before).. I don't think I will bring it inside this
winter..don't want to lose it, its over a ft long,, but not at the expense
of my other fish.(well at least a bunch of water lettuce survived) mmm,
maybe I should leave the "*" out of his name next time,, lol

I really envy those in the southern states , where they can keep their ponds
all year,, I figure "I" only have 5-6 months of pond "pleasure".. *POUT*

thanks, I would like that link.

when we put IN our pond I didn't know anything about a bottom drain.. I wish
I found this group beforehand, ( & I should have known as I have been on
Usenet for many, many years)


"joe" wrote in message
...
Hey Muffin, where have you been. Haven't seen a post for a long time. Your
lilies are blooming like crazy here.

As for cleaning the gunk at the bottom of the pond out, I still use the
method devised by richtoybox. I'll look for the link, or maybe he can
provide it.

Joe

On 5/24/04 2:52 PM, "*muffin*" wrote:

hmmph!!

pond is only a year old,, who would have thought so much black gunk was
at
the bottom!!
I was sooooo careful with covering the pond to keep out leaves, ,but of
course some got in, & what added to the "gunk" was pots that tipped
over,,




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

I think the page is http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondpage5.html but
there have been too many hits the last couple of days and it won't let me
verify that page. Try it tomorrow.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html
"joe" wrote in message
...
Hey Muffin, where have you been. Haven't seen a post for a long time. Your
lilies are blooming like crazy here.

As for cleaning the gunk at the bottom of the pond out, I still use the
method devised by richtoybox. I'll look for the link, or maybe he can
provide it.

Joe

On 5/24/04 2:52 PM, "*muffin*" wrote:

hmmph!!

pond is only a year old,, who would have thought so much black gunk was
at
the bottom!!
I was sooooo careful with covering the pond to keep out leaves, ,but of
course some got in, & what added to the "gunk" was pots that tipped
over,,




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http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Muffin,

Could you rig a bottom intake for your pump? Our koi stir the bottom as
they swim. The much moves around to our "deep well" (think former septic
tank) and falls to the bottom, where the pump pulls it to the veggie
filters. Some of the big stuff stays in the deep well, where we (I, Jim)
pull it out with a pool net annually. We have never had to vacuum the
bottom of the pond. We do drain the veggie filters annually, through bottom
drains.

If the bottom of your pond is clear (ours is bare cement...with algae to
cover it), the muck will find its way to the pulling drain.

If you could pull water from a low spot on the bottom of the pond, you might
not have a much problem.

Good luck, whatever you do.


Jim


____________________________________________
See our pond at: home.bellsouth.net\p\pwp-jameshurley
Ask me about Jog-A-Thon fundraiser (clears $120+ per child) at: jogathon.net

"*muffin*" wrote in message
...
hmmph!!

pond is only a year old,, who would have thought so much black gunk was at
the bottom!!
I was sooooo careful with covering the pond to keep out leaves, ,but of
course some got in, & what added to the "gunk" was pots that tipped over,,
yucky.
I figured one year?? how could it be bad??

well this weekend, after 2 months of murky water not clearing after
filter(S) running, I decided to try to suck out the muck.
we rigged up a shop vac, Hubby decided to hook in hose from pond to a big
barrel ( it was a big plastic one) & then a hose from the barrel to the
shop
vac. premise being, the muck would drop into the barrel, not filling up
the
shop vac.
all, very good idea.. hmmm, I thought okk this will take under an
hour....
untilll we couldn't find the big shop hose, so had to use a swimming pool
hose & house vacuum cleaner plastic suction pipes, so it was VERY small
opening to suck up the stuff( I already waited too long to do this I
wasn't
going to wait another week to find the correct hose).
ok, it did work,,,,,,, BUT.... with hose so small it got clogged
often,
especially with stones ( from the tipped over pots), so hubby had to stick
around & help empty the hose, needless to say I was covered in black gook,
by the time we were done, from trying to shake out the clog & it slopped
out
the top on me. arrghhh.
other complication, the plastic barrel started collapsing.......
figures, maybe with a metal one & tighter seals we would have had more
pressure & no problems,, so it was back to sucking the stuff INTO the shop
vac directory, & had to be emptied every so often.
this took over 4 hours,,, I am sooooooo glad the water was not cold!

now, according to my _feet_ the bottom was now clear of crud,,, but there
was a lot of stuff floating through the water, now... am I to ever expect
the water to actually clear???

hubby was saying empty the dang thing & start over, well I did not have
places for the fish, to do that & didn't relish chasing them around
catching
them, so I opted, for the "why can't THIS be done THIS way"???
I really don't want to empty the dang thing to get clear water...
*pout*. I will probably try cleaning the bottom again next week, before
the
tropicals go in,, but this is ridiculous!! I cannot see myself doing this
10
yrs from now ( no one else is doing it, I keep being told its MY
pond,,,,,,),, now I can only wait to bribe my grandson when he grows up!!

(Hubby keeps telling me he has pumps at work that will empty the 4000 gal
pond in 10 min,,, but catching those fish,,,,,,not my idea of fun!!!it
still
meant me gettign IN the pond!)

I believe that your link is incorrect. Substitute page 5 in link with page 4.
Just checked out your pages and the vacuum is on this page 4.
Laura

"*muffin*" wrote in message
...
I've been around (lol)

just very busy!

I was wondering how everyone's lilies are doing.. mine started blooming, but
the dang things need to be transplanted. since I lost a bunch of the soil &
stone covering them!( I used open baskets with burlap,, it did NOT keep the
soil in.)

& I am very ticked off about my lotus dying over the winter.. this was the
3rd one that did not work! ( I never had problems many years ago at my old
pond).water celery is taking over, that someone on this board sent me in
trade, I was surprised it lived!

I would love to get some new butterfly koi, but have not talked myself into
paying for the shipping.

over the winter we had our P*leco* inside a tank, with some fancy goldfish ,
etc.. one night the dang thing went berserk & killed them all..(yea I read
that warning before).. I don't think I will bring it inside this
winter..don't want to lose it, its over a ft long,, but not at the expense
of my other fish.(well at least a bunch of water lettuce survived) mmm,
maybe I should leave the "*" out of his name next time,, lol

If you live in a cold weather area, the Plecostomas (I assume that is what you
are referring to) will not survive.

I really envy those in the southern states , where they can keep their ponds
all year,, I figure "I" only have 5-6 months of pond "pleasure".. *POUT*

thanks, I would like that link.

when we put IN our pond I didn't know anything about a bottom drain.. I wish
I found this group beforehand, ( & I should have known as I have been on
Usenet for many, many years)


"joe" wrote in message
...
Hey Muffin, where have you been. Haven't seen a post for a long time. Your
lilies are blooming like crazy here.

As for cleaning the gunk at the bottom of the pond out, I still use the
method devised by richtoybox. I'll look for the link, or maybe he can
provide it.

Joe

On 5/24/04 2:52 PM, "*muffin*" wrote:

hmmph!!

pond is only a year old,, who would have thought so much black gunk was
at
the bottom!!
I was sooooo careful with covering the pond to keep out leaves, ,but of
course some got in, & what added to the "gunk" was pots that tipped
over,,




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Cleaned the "Gunk" from the bottom of my koi pond the first time in 10
years. This pond had twelve 10 year old koi that were very large. I
decided to sell them and keep goldfish and plants again. I never..I repeat
never felt the need to clean the gunk. It is an outdoor pond and not an
aquarium. I have a very good filtration system and only cleaned a 5 gallon
bucket of "gunk" out of the pond. {:O) MIKE
"*muffin*" wrote in message
...
hmmph!!

pond is only a year old,, who would have thought so much black gunk was at
the bottom!!
I was sooooo careful with covering the pond to keep out leaves, ,but of
course some got in, & what added to the "gunk" was pots that tipped over,,
yucky.

wrote in message ...
Cleaned the "Gunk" from the bottom of my koi pond the first time in 10
years. This pond had twelve 10 year old koi that were very large. I
decided to sell them and keep goldfish and plants again. I never..I repeat
never felt the need to clean the gunk. It is an outdoor pond and not an
aquarium. I have a very good filtration system and only cleaned a 5 gallon
bucket of "gunk" out of the pond. {:O) MIKE

I'm like you. While my koi are still young (about 2 years old), I have a large
albino channel catfish and a lot of goldfish. My pond is only a year old, but
even being located beneath a very large pin oak, where leaves and acorns
regularly fall into it ( I do screen the pond in the fall), the bottom of my
pond is perfectly visible. No gunk at all, not even an acorn. The bacteria I
use digests the debris completely, sludge and all (which is what it is supposed
to do). If the water is being constantly overturned in the pond, with proper
filtration, you should get very little build up. So, I am not surprised that
after ten years, you've only cleaned out 5 gallons of gunk out of your pond.
That just shows that your little ecosystem is working. Great job, Mike. I hope
I have the same results ten years from now.

"*muffin*" wrote in message
...
hmmph!!

pond is only a year old,, who would have thought so much black gunk was at
the bottom!!
I was sooooo careful with covering the pond to keep out leaves, ,but of
course some got in, & what added to the "gunk" was pots that tipped over,,
yucky.

"George" writes:

wrote in message ...
Cleaned the "Gunk" from the bottom of my koi pond the first time in 10
years. This pond had twelve 10 year old koi that were very large. I
decided to sell them and keep goldfish and plants again. I never..I repeat
never felt the need to clean the gunk. It is an outdoor pond and not an
aquarium. I have a very good filtration system and only cleaned a 5 gallon
bucket of "gunk" out of the pond. {:O) MIKE

I'm like you. While my koi are still young (about 2 years old), I have a large
albino channel catfish and a lot of goldfish. My pond is only a year old, but
even being located beneath a very large pin oak, where leaves and acorns
regularly fall into it ( I do screen the pond in the fall), the bottom of my
pond is perfectly visible. No gunk at all, not even an acorn. The bacteria I
use digests the debris completely

Me too but I don't use a bacteria additive, I do have a settling chamber
in the filter. I've often wondered why some get a build up and some do not.
I do have maybe half an inch of black aquarium gravel in mine that the koi
root around in, maybe that keeps stuff stirred up until it drifts into the filter?

"Andrew Burgess" wrote in message
...
"George" writes:

wrote in message ...
Cleaned the "Gunk" from the bottom of my koi pond the first time in 10
years. This pond had twelve 10 year old koi that were very large. I
decided to sell them and keep goldfish and plants again. I never..I repeat
never felt the need to clean the gunk. It is an outdoor pond and not an
aquarium. I have a very good filtration system and only cleaned a 5 gallon
bucket of "gunk" out of the pond. {:O) MIKE

I'm like you. While my koi are still young (about 2 years old), I have a
large
albino channel catfish and a lot of goldfish. My pond is only a year old, but
even being located beneath a very large pin oak, where leaves and acorns
regularly fall into it ( I do screen the pond in the fall), the bottom of my
pond is perfectly visible. No gunk at all, not even an acorn. The bacteria I
use digests the debris completely

Me too but I don't use a bacteria additive, I do have a settling chamber
in the filter. I've often wondered why some get a build up and some do not.
I do have maybe half an inch of black aquarium gravel in mine that the koi
root around in, maybe that keeps stuff stirred up until it drifts into the
filter?


The only thing I have on the bottom of my pond is my pre-filter. I think we can
chock it up to successful microbial activity in the ponds, whether you add any
or not. My pond would likely have stabilized without the addition of microbes.
I simply like them to get established as rapidly as possible after winter in
order to keep the pond water as clear as possible for the longest length of
time.

.. No gunk at all, not even an acorn. The bacteria I
use digests the debris completely, sludge and all (which is what it is
supposed
to do).


ok, what stuff do you use?
I was going to try BZT, but was told it doesn't work on leaves OR the muck
from plant buckets.

"Jim and Phyllis Hurley" wrote in message
news
Muffin,

Could you rig a bottom intake for your pump?


nope,, it would take a major rehab to do that.
: (

"*muffin*" wrote in message
...
. No gunk at all, not even an acorn. The bacteria I
use digests the debris completely, sludge and all (which is what it is
supposed
to do).


ok, what stuff do you use?
I was going to try BZT, but was told it doesn't work on leaves OR the muck
from plant buckets.


I use aquazyme.