We recently moved into a house in London, UK, that has the trees pictured growing at the edge of the garden. On the side facing the garden, the trees are covered with what I think (but I'm not certain) are small dead branches. We'd quite like to remove them as they look unsightly, but are unsure whether this is advisable or how to do it?

Can anyone confirm from the pictures what the apparent dead wood is and whether it can be removed (and if so, how) without causing harm to the trees? The wood is quite dry to the touch. It seems to be fairly tangled and attached to the trees which I'm guessing makes trying to pull it down (eg. with a rake) unfeasible.

Thanks

On 4/20/13 3:33 PM, abbeygardener wrote:

We recently moved into a house in London, UK, that has the trees
pictured growing at the edge of the garden. On the side facing the
garden, the trees are covered with what I think (but I'm not certain)
are small dead branches. We'd quite like to remove them as they look
unsightly, but are unsure whether this is advisable or how to do it?

Can anyone confirm from the pictures what the apparent dead wood is and
whether it can be removed (and if so, how) without causing harm to the
trees? The wood is quite dry to the touch. It seems to be fairly tangled
and attached to the trees which I'm guessing makes trying to pull it
down (eg. with a rake) unfeasible.

Thanks


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The photos look as if some kind of vine was growing on the trees and was
then cut away at the bottom without removing the top growth. I see a
similar situation near my house where wisteria grew to the top of an
Italian cypress. The wisteria would have eventually killed the cypress
but was cut last year near the ground. The dead vine is still up in the
tree, well beyond anyone's reach other than with a crane.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

On 21/04/2013 04:07, David E. Ross wrote:
On 4/20/13 3:33 PM, abbeygardener wrote:

We recently moved into a house in London, UK, that has the trees
pictured growing at the edge of the garden. On the side facing the
garden, the trees are covered with what I think (but I'm not certain)
are small dead branches. We'd quite like to remove them as they look
unsightly, but are unsure whether this is advisable or how to do it?

Can anyone confirm from the pictures what the apparent dead wood is and
whether it can be removed (and if so, how) without causing harm to the
trees? The wood is quite dry to the touch. It seems to be fairly tangled
and attached to the trees which I'm guessing makes trying to pull it
down (eg. with a rake) unfeasible.

Thanks

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|Filename: 010.JPG |
|Download: http://www.gardenbanter.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=15511|
|Filename: 008.JPG |
|Download: http://www.gardenbanter.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=15512|
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The photos look as if some kind of vine was growing on the trees and was
then cut away at the bottom without removing the top growth. I see a
similar situation near my house where wisteria grew to the top of an
Italian cypress. The wisteria would have eventually killed the cypress
but was cut last year near the ground. The dead vine is still up in the
tree, well beyond anyone's reach other than with a crane.

Yes, I'd agree with that. Could be a clematis or (gulp!) Russian vine.
Bit puzzled at the apparent lack of thicker branches, although those
may be underneath. Whatever, if it isn't dead it should be showing
signs of sprouting, which should then aid identification. It could be
cut down or pulled off as much as possible. It looks as though it's a
climber that doesn't stick onto its support (like hedera or
parthenocissus), but just scrambles through it. Even if it is stuck to
its support, cutting through the main trunk(s) will make sure the top
dies and can be removed. I can't see that its removal would harm the
supporting trees in any way.

I've just done that with a 30' cypress which is more ivy than cypress.
The ivy's two main trunks are 8 and 10 cm in diameter! And there are
numerous smaller ones. I've used an axe to cut through them, and after
only a month the ivy has dried out enough to become brittle and be
pulled off relatively easily.

--

Jeff

Thanks for the replies. After reading them I had a closer look and it seems I can in places track the tangled mass of whatever-it-is to thin stems growing from the ground near the tree trunks, which seems to confirm the vine theory. I'm happy if I can remove it. I also realized that there are other plants wrapped around the lower trunks of the trees, showing three different types of leaves. I've attached a couple of closer pictures - if anyone can decipher what's going on from those it'd be appreciated. I know very little about gardening so can't tell what they are. The leaves around the trunks low down do look nice though so I'm inclined to keep them - unless of course they are likely to harm the trees?

abbeygardener wrote:

We recently moved into a house in London, UK, that has the trees
pictured growing at the edge of the garden. On the side facing the
garden, the trees are covered with what I think (but I'm not certain)
are small dead branches. We'd quite like to remove them as they look
unsightly, but are unsure whether this is advisable or how to do it?

Can anyone confirm from the pictures what the apparent dead wood is and
whether it can be removed (and if so, how) without causing harm to the
trees? The wood is quite dry to the touch. It seems to be fairly tangled
and attached to the trees which I'm guessing makes trying to pull it
down (eg. with a rake) unfeasible.

|Filename: 010.JPG |
|Download: http://www.gardenbanter.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=15511|
|Filename: 008.JPG |
|Download: http://www.gardenbanter.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=15512|

From the look of your blouse it seems you have huge breasts... should
be easy for you to get some man to take care of your problem.

On 4/21/13 9:00 AM, abbeygardener wrote:[i]
'Jeff Layman[_2_ Wrote:
;981459']On 21/04/2013 04:07, David E. Ross wrote:-
On 4/20/13 3:33 PM, abbeygardener wrote:

We recently moved into a house in London, UK, that has the trees
pictured growing at the edge of the garden. On the side facing the
garden, the trees are covered with what I think (but I'm not certain)
are small dead branches. We'd quite like to remove them as they look
unsightly, but are unsure whether this is advisable or how to do it?

snip


The photos look as if some kind of vine was growing on the trees and
was
then cut away at the bottom without removing the top growth. I see a
similar situation near my house where wisteria grew to the top of an
Italian cypress. The wisteria would have eventually killed the
cypress
but was cut last year near the ground. The dead vine is still up in
the
tree, well beyond anyone's reach other than with a crane.-

Yes, I'd agree with that. Could be a clematis or (gulp!) Russian vine.

Bit puzzled at the apparent lack of thicker branches, although those
may be underneath. Whatever, if it isn't dead it should be showing
signs of sprouting, which should then aid identification. It could be
cut down or pulled off as much as possible. It looks as though it's a
climber that doesn't stick onto its support (like hedera or
parthenocissus), but just scrambles through it. Even if it is stuck to

its support, cutting through the main trunk(s) will make sure the top
dies and can be removed. I can't see that its removal would harm the
supporting trees in any way.

I've just done that with a 30' cypress which is more ivy than cypress.
The ivy's two main trunks are 8 and 10 cm in diameter! And there are
numerous smaller ones. I've used an axe to cut through them, and after

only a month the ivy has dried out enough to become brittle and be
pulled off relatively easily.

--

Jeff

Thanks for the replies. After reading them I had a closer look and it
seems I can in places track the tangled mass of whatever-it-is to thin
stems growing from the ground near the tree trunks, which seems to
confirm the vine theory. I'm happy if I can remove it. I also realized
that there are other plants wrapped around the lower trunks of the
trees, showing three different types of leaves. I've attached a couple
of closer pictures - if anyone can decipher what's going on from those
it'd be appreciated. I know very little about gardening so can't tell
what they are. The leaves around the trunks low down do look nice though
so I'm inclined to keep them - unless of course they are likely to harm
the trees?


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|Filename: LowerTrunk1.jpg |
|Download: http://www.gardenbanter.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=15520|
|Filename: LowerTrunk2.jpg |
|Download: http://www.gardenbanter.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=15521|
|Filename: HigherUp.jpg |
|Download: http://www.gardenbanter.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=15522|
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I think they are all varieties of English ivy (Hedera helix). This can
grow sufficiently dense as to kill a tree.

The last photo (#15522) seems to show ivy foliage just as the plant is
preparing to bloom. The flowers are not showy or in any way attractive.
When ivy blooms (very infrequently), it then grows even more
vigorously. This can be somewhat mitigated by removing any shoots that
appear to have flower buds.

I have dwarf English ivy (H. helix 'Hahn's') planted as a ground cover
around a liquidambar tree (L. styraciflua). This variety is not
vigorous enough to harm the tree, but I still cut it away when it starts
to climb.

I have non-dwarf English ivy on my hill, to stabilize the slope and
prevent erosion. I keep it trimmed away from my grape vines that are
also on the hill. I also trim it off the slough wall at the bottom of
my hill so that it does not become established in the rose bed below the
wall.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

On 21/04/2013 23:50, David E. Ross wrote:
On 4/21/13 9:00 AM, abbeygardener wrote:
'Jeff Layman[_2_ Wrote:

(snip)

Thanks for the replies. After reading them I had a closer look and it
seems I can in places track the tangled mass of whatever-it-is to thin
stems growing from the ground near the tree trunks, which seems to
confirm the vine theory. I'm happy if I can remove it. I also realized
that there are other plants wrapped around the lower trunks of the
trees, showing three different types of leaves. I've attached a couple
of closer pictures - if anyone can decipher what's going on from those
it'd be appreciated. I know very little about gardening so can't tell
what they are. The leaves around the trunks low down do look nice though
so I'm inclined to keep them - unless of course they are likely to harm
the trees?

+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Filename: LowerTrunk1.jpg |
|Download: http://www.gardenbanter.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=15520|
|Filename: LowerTrunk2.jpg |
|Download: http://www.gardenbanter.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=15521|
|Filename: HigherUp.jpg |
|Download: http://www.gardenbanter.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=15522|
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+

I think they are all varieties of English ivy (Hedera helix). This can
grow sufficiently dense as to kill a tree.

The last photo (#15522) seems to show ivy foliage just as the plant is
preparing to bloom. The flowers are not showy or in any way attractive.
When ivy blooms (very infrequently), it then grows even more
vigorously. This can be somewhat mitigated by removing any shoots that
appear to have flower buds.

Spot on. Although I have problems with ivy (see above!) it does
provide shelter for country birds in severe winters (no need in London).
The ivy stems will have to be cut through - remember to cut round the
backs of the tree trunks, too. If you want to get rid of it completely
you could spray the ivy leaves with the weedkiller glyphosate (Roundup)
at low and ground level, but as ivy leaves are somewhat waxy the
weedkiller does not penetrate well and spraying will probably need to be
repeated. Remember that although glyphosate can be sprayed without
problem on woody stems and trunks, any green parts (leaves, shoots,
stems) will absorb it and that plant will be weakened or killed. Grass
is particularly sensitive, so if there is weedkiller run off and you
walk on it, and them stroll across the lawn, after a few weeks you will
have nice yellow footprints where you have been!

--

Jeff

On 4/22/13 1:05 AM, Jeff Layman wrote [in part]:

If you want to get rid of it completely
you could spray the ivy leaves with the weedkiller glyphosate (Roundup)
at low and ground level, but as ivy leaves are somewhat waxy the
weedkiller does not penetrate well and spraying will probably need to be
repeated.

To ensure an effective application of any spray, I always mix some
liquid soap with my spray solution. This is quite effective on both
waxy leaves and fuzzy leaves, both of which tend to shed water-based
sprays.

When using Roundup on woody plants (on the foliage of woody plants), I
tend to mix the spray slightly weaker than the recommended dose. This
ensures that the herbicide does not kill the foliage before it reaches
the roots. Yes, this does require a repeat spraying later. I forget
where I read about this; but the theory is that, if the herbicide mix is
strong enough to kill the foliage promptly, it will remain in the dead
foliage without reaching the roots.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

It seems you're spot on. I managed to speak to the previous house owner who confirmed that the stuff that looked to me like dead wood covering most of the higher part of the trees is actually Russian vine - as far as I can gather it's there deliberately because he liked it when it bloomed. In fact in the last day or so I can see buds starting to appear on the stuff.

He also pointed out to me where [he believes] the main stem is - picture attached - an assembly that looks like curved branches coming out of the ground, which I'd previous assumed was part of the tree as they were so close to the trunk.

So it seems I have several trees - which I like because they make the garden feel more private - all of which have their trunks covered with English ivy and their branches mingled with Russian vine.

What I'm gathering from this thread is that both the vine is and the ivy are likely to be threatening the trees so I probably need to remove them both. I'm reluctant to use herbicide so near the trees so am inclined to remove them by cutting them near the stems. (Though in the case of the ivy, I don't yet know where it's growing from - I think I'll need to remove a lot of foliage to find that out)

Out of interest, what would be the mechanism of the threat to the trees? Is it competition with the roots in the soil or blocking out sunlight from the trees, or both, or something else?

On 24/04/2013 10:23, abbeygardener wrote:
'Jeff Layman[_2_ Wrote:
;981459']On 21/04/2013 04:07, David E. Ross wrote:-
On 4/20/13 3:33 PM, abbeygardener wrote:-

We recently moved into a house in London, UK, that has the trees
pictured growing at the edge of the garden. On the side facing the
garden, the trees are covered with what I think (but I'm not certain)
are small dead branches. We'd quite like to remove them as they look
unsightly, but are unsure whether this is advisable or how to do it?

Can anyone confirm from the pictures what the apparent dead wood is
and
whether it can be removed (and if so, how) without causing harm to the
trees? The wood is quite dry to the touch. It seems to be fairly
tangled
and attached to the trees which I'm guessing makes trying to pull it
down (eg. with a rake) unfeasible.

Thanks

+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Filename: 010.JPG |
|Download:
http://www.gardenbanter.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=15511|
|Filename: 008.JPG |
|Download:
http://www.gardenbanter.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=15512|
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+-

The photos look as if some kind of vine was growing on the trees and
was
then cut away at the bottom without removing the top growth. I see a
similar situation near my house where wisteria grew to the top of an
Italian cypress. The wisteria would have eventually killed the
cypress
but was cut last year near the ground. The dead vine is still up in
the
tree, well beyond anyone's reach other than with a crane.-

Yes, I'd agree with that. Could be a clematis or (gulp!) Russian vine.

Bit puzzled at the apparent lack of thicker branches, although those
may be underneath. Whatever, if it isn't dead it should be showing
signs of sprouting, which should then aid identification. It could be
cut down or pulled off as much as possible. It looks as though it's a
climber that doesn't stick onto its support (like hedera or
parthenocissus), but just scrambles through it. Even if it is stuck to

its support, cutting through the main trunk(s) will make sure the top
dies and can be removed. I can't see that its removal would harm the
supporting trees in any way.

--

Jeff

It seems you're spot on. I managed to speak to the previous house owner
who confirmed that the stuff that looked to me like dead wood covering
most of the higher part of the trees is actually Russian vine - as far
as I can gather it's there deliberately because he liked it when it
bloomed. In fact in the last day or so I can see buds starting to appear
on the stuff.

He also pointed out to me where [he believes] the main stem is - picture
attached - an assembly that looks like curved branches coming out of the
ground, which I'd previous assumed was part of the tree as they were so
close to the trunk.

So it seems I have several trees - which I like because they make the
garden feel more private - all of which have their trunks covered with
English ivy and their branches mingled with Russian vine.

What I'm gathering from this thread is that both the vine is and the ivy
are likely to be threatening the trees so I probably need to remove them
both. I'm reluctant to use herbicide so near the trees so am inclined
to remove them by cutting them near the stems. (Though in the case of
the ivy, I don't yet know where it's growing from - I think I'll need to
remove a lot of foliage to find that out)

Out of interest, what would be the mechanism of the threat to the trees?
Is it competition with the roots in the soil or blocking out sunlight
from the trees, or both, or something else?


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|Filename: VineBase.jpg |
|Download: http://www.gardenbanter.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=15525|
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+

Although they may block out some light and weaken the tree, the main
problem is simply bulk/weight and wind resistance. A tree which may
otherwise withstand a strong wind because what it has grown above ground
is anchored by what its roots are doing below ground, may not tolerate
the additional resistance of what the climber has added. It could be
uprooted or the trunk could snap in a gale. It's not quite the same
thing, but some years ago I had a small frame about 8 feet high and 5
feet long supported by a couple of 2 x 4" timbers (much too thin!). A
Clematis montana had grown over it and after a particularly windy night
I found it on the ground, both 2 x 4s having been snapped off at ground
level.

If you can get to the stems of the climbers you can cut them off at
ground level. That will cause them to shoot from the ground. As they
come through, you can spray them with glyphosate, taking care to keep
the spray away from the green leaves of anything you want to keep
(including the trees). You will need to spray many times to kill these
climbers. Sometimes the root system is so extensive that to get enough
weedkiller in to do its job is nigh impossible. Another possibility is
to pull down as much as you can, but leaving it attached at the base,
and the branches on the ground. Let the leaves open on it, then place
the branches with the leaves on a large polythene sheet or tarpaulin, or
pack them in a large polythene bag (make sure there are no holes), then
spray that. Wrap up the polythene, or close the bag. After a couple of
days, open and spray again. Repeat until the leaves start to yellow.
Take care to avoid spray drift or walking in any weedkiller which drips
and then walking over the lawn.

Russian ivy is one of, if not the, fastest growing climber hardy in the
UK. Good luck!

--

Jeff