I have 6 - 4' x 12' x 12" raised gardens. Last year, did fab. This year,
we've had crazy weather (freezing cold well into April) and had to replace
plants twice due to frost burn. So, the garden is a bit behind this year, so
I'm not where I should be on a normal year. However, things are starting to
go a little, so I have hopes. My problem is this. One of my beds is for
tomato plants, a variety from big boys to better boys to Amelia to Heinz.
Average run of the mill tomatoes from the local Lowes. Planted, deep, caged,
watered, etc. Plants grew quite nicely, although slow to start due to
getting them in late. Started coming on well, nice fruit set, no obvious
issues. All of a sudden, it got quite hot here (I'm in Charleston, SC, not
sure what zone, but I think its 9). so I watered daily to keep up with the
drying soil as the temps got into the 90's every day. No rain for some time,
at least no to speak of to boost the garden. SO, about 3 days after the
temps started rising, I noticed that during the day, even after I had
watered, it looked like the plants were wilting. Overnight they would perk
up, but then about 3 days after that, they stopped perking up, even though I
watered. then they began to yellow, leaves curled, and the plant just
stopped growing or doing anything. Tomatoes all over them, and they looked
ok, but the plant itself, looked dead. SO research I did, for days on the
web. I know I have wilt. I do not know for sure which one. I took out 3
plants, looks like I have 2 more almost gone, and 2 more starting to show
the same signs. The soil in the bed was actually brought from a neighbor,
who moved and told me to take the bed and dirt. So I did. Then she told me,
btw I had the same problem with my tomatoes last year, same bed, same soil.
So, by my description can someone tell me what wilt I have? It appears that
I need to remove the plants from this bed and not plant them there again,
but it looks like I am supposed to do that for 4 years! Can I not use this
bed at all? Is there something I can plant in it's place that isn't
susceptible to wilt? Should I remove all the soil and replace? The info on
the net is so confusing that I am more unsure of what to do now than when I
started. I understand that some of the plants that I had in there were
supposed to be resistant, but they still went down. I tried to find more
plants with the FVNT on them, but local stores show none of those letters.
Some say disease resistant, but they don't say what disease they are
resistant to. I can post pictures I think tomorrow as I didn't think abut it
before writing this if it would help identify. I was hoping maybe I could
plant tomatoes in a different bead that has gone through a Bush Bean cycle
and move the second planting of bush beans to this bed. But I am not sure if
the wilt will just strike again. Any help would be greatly appreciated, sure
would like to get my tomatoes back on track for homemade salsa and sauce!
Thank for listening!


Oh, and the soil in all of the beds, including the infected one, is a mix of
black soil and mushroom compost, about 60-40 if I had to guess. I actually
helped the neighbor put her box in, it was one of the reasons I took it,
because I knew what was in it.

Bunny McElwee wrote:
I have 6 - 4' x 12' x 12" raised gardens. Last year, did fab. This
year, we've had crazy weather (freezing cold well into April) and had
to replace plants twice due to frost burn. So, the garden is a bit
behind this year, so I'm not where I should be on a normal year.
However, things are starting to go a little, so I have hopes. My
problem is this. One of my beds is for tomato plants, a variety from
big boys to better boys to Amelia to Heinz. Average run of the mill
tomatoes from the local Lowes. Planted, deep, caged, watered, etc.
Plants grew quite nicely, although slow to start due to getting them
in late. Started coming on well, nice fruit set, no obvious issues.
All of a sudden, it got quite hot here (I'm in Charleston, SC, not
sure what zone, but I think its 9). so I watered daily to keep up
with the drying soil as the temps got into the 90's every day. No
rain for some time, at least no to speak of to boost the garden. SO,
about 3 days after the temps started rising, I noticed that during
the day, even after I had watered, it looked like the plants were
wilting. Overnight they would perk up, but then about 3 days after
that, they stopped perking up, even though I watered. then they began
to yellow, leaves curled, and the plant just stopped growing or doing
anything. Tomatoes all over them, and they looked ok, but the plant
itself, looked dead. SO research I did, for days on the web. I know I
have wilt. I do not know for sure which one. I took out 3 plants,
looks like I have 2 more almost gone, and 2 more starting to show the
same signs. The soil in the bed was actually brought from a neighbor,
who moved and told me to take the bed and dirt. So I did. Then she
told me, btw I had the same problem with my tomatoes last year, same
bed, same soil. So, by my description can someone tell me what wilt I
have? It appears that I need to remove the plants from this bed and
not plant them there again, but it looks like I am supposed to do
that for 4 years! Can I not use this bed at all? Is there something I
can plant in it's place that isn't susceptible to wilt? Should I
remove all the soil and replace? The info on the net is so confusing
that I am more unsure of what to do now than when I started. I
understand that some of the plants that I had in there were supposed
to be resistant, but they still went down. I tried to find more
plants with the FVNT on them, but local stores show none of those
letters. Some say disease resistant, but they don't say what disease
they are resistant to. I can post pictures I think tomorrow as I
didn't think abut it before writing this if it would help identify. I
was hoping maybe I could plant tomatoes in a different bead that has
gone through a Bush Bean cycle and move the second planting of bush
beans to this bed. But I am not sure if the wilt will just strike
again. Any help would be greatly appreciated, sure would like to get
my tomatoes back on track for homemade salsa and sauce! Thank for
listening!

Oh, and the soil in all of the beds, including the infected one, is a
mix of black soil and mushroom compost, about 60-40 if I had to
guess. I actually helped the neighbor put her box in, it was one of
the reasons I took it, because I knew what was in it.

I find huge paragraphs hard to read. Also with no breaks it is hard for
people to pick out single ideas and questions to answer.

D

Bunny McElwee wrote:

I have 6 - 4' x 12' x 12" raised gardens. Last year, did fab. This
year, we've had crazy weather (freezing cold well into April) and had
to replace plants twice due to frost burn. So, the garden is a bit
behind this year, so I'm not where I should be on a normal year.
However, things are starting to go a little, so I have hopes. My
problem is this. One of my beds is for tomato plants, a variety from
big boys to better boys to Amelia to Heinz. Average run of the mill
tomatoes from the local Lowes. Planted, deep, caged, watered, etc.
Plants grew quite nicely, although slow to start due to getting them
in late. Started coming on well, nice fruit set, no obvious issues.
All of a sudden, it got quite hot here (I'm in Charleston, SC, not
sure what zone, but I think its 9). so I watered daily to keep up
with the drying soil as the temps got into the 90's every day. No
rain for some time, at least no to speak of to boost the garden. SO,
about 3 days after the temps started rising, I noticed that during
the day, even after I had watered, it looked like the plants were
wilting. Overnight they would perk up, but then about 3 days after
that, they stopped perking up, even though I watered. then they began
to yellow, leaves curled, and the plant just stopped growing or doing
anything. Tomatoes all over them, and they looked ok, but the plant
itself, looked dead. SO research I did, for days on the web. I know I
have wilt. I do not know for sure which one. I took out 3 plants,
looks like I have 2 more almost gone, and 2 more starting to show the
same signs. The soil in the bed was actually brought from a neighbor,
who moved and told me to take the bed and dirt. So I did. Then she
told me, btw I had the same problem with my tomatoes last year, same
bed, same soil. So, by my description can someone tell me what wilt I
have? It appears that I need to remove the plants from this bed and
not plant them there again, but it looks like I am supposed to do
that for 4 years! Can I not use this bed at all? Is there something I
can plant in it's place that isn't susceptible to wilt? Should I
remove all the soil and replace? The info on the net is so confusing
that I am more unsure of what to do now than when I started. I
understand that some of the plants that I had in there were supposed
to be resistant, but they still went down. I tried to find more
plants with the FVNT on them, but local stores show none of those
letters. Some say disease resistant, but they don't say what disease
they are resistant to. I can post pictures I think tomorrow as I
didn't think abut it before writing this if it would help identify. I
was hoping maybe I could plant tomatoes in a different bead that has
gone through a Bush Bean cycle and move the second planting of bush
beans to this bed. But I am not sure if the wilt will just strike
again. Any help would be greatly appreciated, sure would like to get
my tomatoes back on track for homemade salsa and sauce! Thank for
listening!

Oh, and the soil in all of the beds, including the infected one, is a
mix of black soil and mushroom compost, about 60-40 if I had to
guess. I actually helped the neighbor put her box in, it was one of
the reasons I took it, because I knew what was in it.

You're over watering, and probably incorrectly. Watering every day is
not good for tomatoes. You'd do best to water deeply to encourage
roots to grow deep, but not more than twice a week. Water early in
the day and do NOT wet the leaves... I strongly recommend soaker
hoses... you especially don't want to put your tomatoes to bed with
wet leaves so water early in the day. Also lay down a mulch layer of
straw (not hay) to prevent muddy water from splashing up onto the
underside of the leaves when it rains, the straw will form a mat, it
will help retain moisture and keep weeds down. Don't make the sin of
introducing hay into your garden, hay contains lots of seeds and once
hay takes hold it's near impossible to get rid of it. What you
describe sounds like you're using a garden hose to water your garden
and probably in the later part of the day, then you are causing soil
to splash up onto your plants and they will stay wet all night. If
you notice farmers using automatic irrigation systems they water in
the morning only, conserves water by not watering in the heat of the
day, more water goes into the soil, plants don't take in water through
their leaves anyway but if plant leaves stay wet too long all kinds of
diseases occur. Water droplets on plant leaves act as tiny magnifying
lenses, they concentrate sunlight and literally burn the leaves. Use
soaker hoses. Also a raised bed only 12" high is of no real benefit,
you'd do better gardening directly on the ground... unless you elevate
your raised beds to 30" get rid of them.

David Hare-Brained wrote:
Bunny McElwee wrote:
I have 6 - 4' x 12' x 12" raised gardens. Last year, did fab. This
year, we've had crazy weather (freezing cold well into April) and had
to replace plants twice due to frost burn. So, the garden is a bit
behind this year, so I'm not where I should be on a normal year.
However, things are starting to go a little, so I have hopes. My
problem is this. One of my beds is for tomato plants, a variety from
big boys to better boys to Amelia to Heinz. Average run of the mill
tomatoes from the local Lowes. Planted, deep, caged, watered, etc.
Plants grew quite nicely, although slow to start due to getting them
in late. Started coming on well, nice fruit set, no obvious issues.
All of a sudden, it got quite hot here (I'm in Charleston, SC, not
sure what zone, but I think its 9). so I watered daily to keep up
with the drying soil as the temps got into the 90's every day. No
rain for some time, at least no to speak of to boost the garden. SO,
about 3 days after the temps started rising, I noticed that during
the day, even after I had watered, it looked like the plants were
wilting. Overnight they would perk up, but then about 3 days after
that, they stopped perking up, even though I watered. then they began
to yellow, leaves curled, and the plant just stopped growing or doing
anything. Tomatoes all over them, and they looked ok, but the plant
itself, looked dead. SO research I did, for days on the web. I know I
have wilt. I do not know for sure which one. I took out 3 plants,
looks like I have 2 more almost gone, and 2 more starting to show the
same signs. The soil in the bed was actually brought from a neighbor,
who moved and told me to take the bed and dirt. So I did. Then she
told me, btw I had the same problem with my tomatoes last year, same
bed, same soil. So, by my description can someone tell me what wilt I
have? It appears that I need to remove the plants from this bed and
not plant them there again, but it looks like I am supposed to do
that for 4 years! Can I not use this bed at all? Is there something I
can plant in it's place that isn't susceptible to wilt? Should I
remove all the soil and replace? The info on the net is so confusing
that I am more unsure of what to do now than when I started. I
understand that some of the plants that I had in there were supposed
to be resistant, but they still went down. I tried to find more
plants with the FVNT on them, but local stores show none of those
letters. Some say disease resistant, but they don't say what disease
they are resistant to. I can post pictures I think tomorrow as I
didn't think abut it before writing this if it would help identify. I
was hoping maybe I could plant tomatoes in a different bead that has
gone through a Bush Bean cycle and move the second planting of bush
beans to this bed. But I am not sure if the wilt will just strike
again. Any help would be greatly appreciated, sure would like to get
my tomatoes back on track for homemade salsa and sauce! Thank for
listening!

Oh, and the soil in all of the beds, including the infected one, is a
mix of black soil and mushroom compost, about 60-40 if I had to
guess. I actually helped the neighbor put her box in, it was one of
the reasons I took it, because I knew what was in it.

I find huge paragraphs hard to read. Also with no breaks it is hard for
people to pick out single ideas and questions to answer.

D

A typical comment indicative of someone knowing nothing about
gardening. This is a gardening group, not a creative writing group...
and you can't write very well either, your vocaculary is that of a 4th
grader. And if you have difficulty comprehending that post then you
are functionally illiterate.

On 06/14/2014 09:14 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
Also a raised bed only 12" high is of no real benefit,
you'd do better gardening directly on the ground... unless you elevate
your raised beds to 30" get rid of them.

Hi Brooklyn1,

I am planning, as soon as the recession breaks, to
convert my back yard into several raised bed.

I have seen several I liked, but the were close to the
ground. Would you please elucidate as to why they
need to be 30" high? (I am a blank slate with a
black thumb at the moment.)

The only thing I though of was less bending and
stooping. But I am not going to go through that
kind of expense for it to fail.

Many thanks,
-T

On 06/14/2014 09:14 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
You're over watering, and probably incorrectly. Watering every day is
not good for tomatoes. You'd do best to water deeply to encourage
roots to grow deep, but not more than twice a week. Water early in
the day and do NOT wet the leaves

Hi Broklyn1,

I live in the high sierra desert. Our air is very dry
from the rain shadow effect (adiabatic compression).

I also have a black thumb, so I am learning as much
as I can from those with green thumbs.

In the local pick your own organic farm, in their
green house (it has computer controlled side panels
that open a close to what stimulus, I do not know),
they have zillons of tomatoes in pots. The pots look
to be 30" round and 30" high with wire cages.

When I walk into the green house, I almost pass out
from all the free oxygen and the zillions of different
vine ripe tomatoes. It is everything I can do
to yell "I WANT THEM ALL!" Anyway he is very
successful at growing tomatoes.

Now, he waters differently from your recommendations.
He walks around with a hose and a shower head and
he soaks the ever living daylights out of them.
Every day. But, they do drain out the bottom of
his pots. The floor of the green house is very
wet. And he doesn't seem to care what time of day
he waters. He was the one who told me tomatoes
where an Amazon jungle plant. Get soaked every day
like clock work.

I have a similar pot with four plants in it and
the rest are planted in the ground. The farmer
who put the pot together for me told me to
take a five gallon bucket and water them with
five gallon a day in the morning.

Anyway, I don't have his fancy contraptions (green
houses, etc.) or his extensive knowledge. I tried
one year cutting back on the water. Got vines but
no fruit.

Since then, I have gone back to soaking the daylights
out of them with a hose. I stuck a big rock in the
pot and hit the rock with the stream to break it up.
There is some splashing down low.

Got tons of Cherries last year. Oh man they were good!
But the one large tomato plant only only gave three
tomatoes all season. (This year it is one large one,
10 cherries, and two tomtillos.)

What am I missing?

Many thanks,
-T

On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 12:28:37 -0700, Todd wrote:

On 06/14/2014 09:14 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
Also a raised bed only 12" high is of no real benefit,
you'd do better gardening directly on the ground... unless you elevate
your raised beds to 30" get rid of them.

Hi Brooklyn1,

I am planning, as soon as the recession breaks, to
convert my back yard into several raised bed.

I have seen several I liked, but the were close to the
ground. Would you please elucidate as to why they
need to be 30" high? (I am a blank slate with a
black thumb at the moment.)

The only thing I though of was less bending and
stooping. But I am not going to go through that
kind of expense for it to fail.

Obviously saves bending/stooping, which of course is the only reason
to use raised beds. However the only reason I can justify raised beds
is for the handicapped, because otherwise they wasta a lot of
gardening space between beds, and it's a lot easier to use
conventional gardening tools with gardens on the ground;
tilling/cultivating. I think it's an inconvenience to have to climb
up into a raised bed garden to tend to gardening chores... I much
prefer working my garden on the ground. I know I'd not want to
operate a tiller while up in a raised bed, it's a pain to lift it up
there and it's dangerous if you need to quickly move out of the way. I
can understand someone living in a condo who hasn't much ground to
garden other than container gardening on a patio, but if you have land
gardening directly on the land is more advantageous in every respect
unless you are handicapped and can't bend/stoop. My vegetable garden
is 50' X 50', 2,500 sq ft is a good sized garden, were I to convert
that space to raised beds I lose a good half my growing area. I've
given a lot of thought to raised beds but considering everything it
can't be justified. The only way I'd consider raised beds is if I
became handicapped, but then I'd probably give up vegetable gardening
as no matter what there's no money saved, it's strictly a hobby, it
costs far less to buy produce at stupidmarkets and farm stands.

A typical comment indicative of someone knowing nothing about
gardening. This is a gardening group, not a creative writing group...
and you can't write very well either, your vocaculary is that of a 4th
grader. And if you have difficulty comprehending that post then you
are functionally illiterate.

Is this Shelly back on the bottle? You sad old troll, nothing more in your
life than being as annoying and inaccurate as possible. Your creative
writing is manufacturing insults for people you have never met.


D

Todd wrote:
On 06/14/2014 09:14 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
Also a raised bed only 12" high is of no real benefit,
you'd do better gardening directly on the ground... unless you
elevate your raised beds to 30" get rid of them.

Hi Brooklyn1,

I am planning, as soon as the recession breaks, to
convert my back yard into several raised bed.

I have seen several I liked, but the were close to the
ground. Would you please elucidate as to why they
need to be 30" high? (I am a blank slate with a
black thumb at the moment.)

The only thing I though of was less bending and
stooping. But I am not going to go through that
kind of expense for it to fail.

Many thanks,
-T

I have to disgaree that 12in high is no use and that rasied beds must be
30in. To save bending/stooping is NOT the only reason to have raised beds.
The reasons that you have raised beds a

- Convenience, for those who don't like to, or cannot stoop or squat.
Seat-height walls and with a broad top to sit on is good for this.

- Deeper soil. Whether using native soil, importing or a mix of both it is
often easier and better to build up than excavate down. Excavation below
the topsoil for those not blessed with deep topsoil can bring up unwanted
soil types and/or create a drowning pond. Deep soil is not an absolute
necessity depending on what you grow. There are many veges and flowers that
are shallow rooted.

- Improved drainage. Avoids waterlogging especially in heavy soil. Has
the disadvantage in drought conditions of drying out faster and needing more
watering. In some situations drainage can be a critical factor.

- Faster soil warming.

You get all those benefits to some extent with 12in walls but obviously
30in is better. But 30in costs more, needs more soil and may require more
sophisticated construction techniques to be durable. For the young and fit
in a warm climate reasons 2 and/or 3 may be the only reasons for raised
beds.

Before you start construction, plan your levels and drainage including weep
holes, calculate your materials and don't make the beds wider than you can
comfortably reach to all parts.

A general observation, don't be taken in by Sheldon (Brooklyn1) he
specialises in being as misleading as possible and then getting offensive
when called on it. The annoying thing is that he isn't wrong 100% of the
time or you could just do the opposite of whatever he says.

D

Todd wrote:

about raised beds...

if you have no need for them they are
a waste of space, materials, expense,
efforts, ... many people do them because
they see others doing them and not
because their site requires it.

David gives a good list of reasons for
having them. i won't repeat that.

i'd get rid of every raised bed we have
if we didn't get flooding once in a while.
as it is i'm combining smaller ones into
larger ones every chance i get and
reclaiming pathways for garden space too.

for your particular area and case Todd,
i'd look into permaculture ideas for arid
climates, it will help you a great deal
in the longer term to figure out your
water capturing and other hardscape or
landscape features before you put a lot of
effort into getting gardens going. there
are plenty of good books on the topics
involved and also much available on-line.

(one site has a ton of references for free
http://jubilee101.com/ could keep a person
busy for years reading)

not that you can't have gardens or raised
beds right away, but if you set them up now
with the idea that you might want to move
them in a season or two then you won't lock
yourself into a poor design.

piling up garden soil, firming the edge
and mulching it will do well enough for a
season.


songbird

On 06/15/2014 08:40 AM, songbird wrote:
about raised beds...

if you have no need for them they are
a waste of space, materials, expense,
efforts, ... many people do them because
they see others doing them and not
because their site requires it.


Hi Songbird,

We are trying to get rid of the back lawn, as the
grass pollen is hard on my wife. But, so is blowing
dirt.

Our soil is not soil. We are at the bottom
of ancient lake Lahatton. What we walk on
is rock and decomposed sandstone (like decomposed
granite, only really ugly). So, basically,
what isn't rock, is sand. (And NO gophers.
Chuckle, Chuckle.)

Now the local compost place has wonder super dirt
and compost. They have all that stuff you spoke of
figured out. (I use their compost on my little
garden every year.) But it is expensive to fill
the entire back yard, not to mention the blowing
dirt.

So I was thinking of four ellipses using interlocking
landscape blocks. Not wood boxes, which eventually
decompose, draw wood eating bugs, and eventually spear
the contents all over the place. (You could use pressure
treated wood, but then the toxins will get in your food.)

Also converting the four sprinklers systems over to drip
system in the four ellipses.

And rocking in the rest. Maybe put a gazebo in the
middle too.

Be nice not to have to bend and stoop as much either.
As far as wanting more soil to grow things, I do
has to know my limitations and age proof my life.

-T

Todd wrote:
On 06/15/2014 08:40 AM, songbird wrote:
about raised beds...

if you have no need for them they are
a waste of space, materials, expense,
efforts, ... many people do them because
they see others doing them and not
because their site requires it.


Hi Songbird,

We are trying to get rid of the back lawn, as the
grass pollen is hard on my wife. But, so is blowing
dirt.

Our soil is not soil. We are at the bottom
of ancient lake Lahatton. What we walk on
is rock and decomposed sandstone (like decomposed
granite, only really ugly). So, basically,
what isn't rock, is sand. (And NO gophers.
Chuckle, Chuckle.)

Now the local compost place has wonder super dirt
and compost. They have all that stuff you spoke of
figured out. (I use their compost on my little
garden every year.) But it is expensive to fill
the entire back yard, not to mention the blowing
dirt.

So I was thinking of four ellipses using interlocking
landscape blocks. Not wood boxes, which eventually
decompose, draw wood eating bugs, and eventually spear
the contents all over the place. (You could use pressure
treated wood, but then the toxins will get in your food.)


It depends on the timber employed. There are some untreated hardwoods that
will last 40 years as fenceposts or raised bed sides. You may not have
access to the eucalypts that I do but ask a reliable timber merchant. There
are grading systems for outdoor durability of timber, you want the sort that
is rated for continuous contact with the soil. But do your sums first,
concrete blocks may be cheaper. Or not. Another possibility is corrugated
iron.

Also converting the four sprinklers systems over to drip
system in the four ellipses.


Why ellipses? Why four? Curves are inherently harder to build than
rectangles or near rectangles. Easier with blocks than timber. Unless your
ellipses are very narrow it will be hard to reach the middle of the fat
part.

And rocking in the rest. Maybe put a gazebo in the
middle too.


If you like curves look up Mandala Garden. A system of six rotational beds
in a hexagonal array with perenials, including fruit trees, planted in the
corners all watered by one central sprinkler. This may be cheaper than lots
of drippers and get in the way less. There are many other advantages
including having chooks that fertilise your food garden and avoiding much
weeding. Much favoured by the local permaculturists, worth a look if you
are preparing for a major makeover.

Here is a local one:

http://www.purplepearfarm.com.au/mandala-gardens

I have been there and I know the bloke who runs it. It is very productive
now having started from really crappy soil. Note that these are not raised
beds but they could be.

Be nice not to have to bend and stoop as much either.
As far as wanting more soil to grow things, I do
has to know my limitations and age proof my life.


Yes.

D

On Monday, June 16, 2014 5:11:42 PM UTC-7, David Hare-Scott wrote:
Todd wrote:

On 06/15/2014 08:40 AM, songbird wrote:

about raised beds...


[...]

If you like curves look up Mandala Garden. A system of six rotational beds

in a hexagonal array with perenials, including fruit trees, planted in the

corners all watered by one central sprinkler. This may be cheaper than lots

of drippers and get in the way less. There are many other advantages

including having chooks that fertilise your food garden and avoiding much

weeding. Much favoured by the local permaculturists, worth a look if you

are preparing for a major makeover

You let your CHICKENS out among your vegetable gardens? I'd think they'd decimate them in no time. We used to keep chickens, in a roomy, fenced enclosure (that is still fertile soil decades later!). I'd let them out to play as long as I was out there watching. Don't tell me chickens are stupid!!! The minute the phone rang and I went in to answer, they headed right to the veg.garden. Pavlovian conditioning..

[...]

HB

Higgs Boson wrote:
On Monday, June 16, 2014 5:11:42 PM UTC-7, David Hare-Scott wrote:
Todd wrote:

On 06/15/2014 08:40 AM, songbird wrote:

about raised beds...


[...]

If you like curves look up Mandala Garden. A system of six
rotational beds

in a hexagonal array with perenials, including fruit trees, planted
in the

corners all watered by one central sprinkler. This may be cheaper
than lots

of drippers and get in the way less. There are many other advantages

including having chooks that fertilise your food garden and avoiding
much

weeding. Much favoured by the local permaculturists, worth a look
if you

are preparing for a major makeover

You let your CHICKENS out among your vegetable gardens? I'd think
they'd decimate them in no time. We used to keep chickens, in a
roomy, fenced enclosure (that is still fertile soil decades later!).
I'd let them out to play as long as I was out there watching. Don't
tell me chickens are stupid!!! The minute the phone rang and I went
in to answer, they headed right to the veg.garden. Pavlovian
conditioning..

[...]

HB


You are jumping to conclusions. The clue about why chooks don't decimate
the garden but help is in 'rotational'. They are in the beds in their turn
not when you are growing produce for yourself. Look at the link.

D

On 06/16/2014 05:11 PM, David Hare-Scott wrote:

Why ellipses? Why four? Curves are inherently harder to build than
rectangles or near rectangles. Easier with blocks than timber. Unless
your ellipses are very narrow it will be hard to reach the middle of the
fat part

Long rectangles with rounded edges. Depending
on the price of the rounded end pieces, I may
go square