"Tsu Dho Nimh" wrote in message
...
"Vox Humana" wrote:

Maybe I don't get out much, but a few days ago I was browsing the garden
department at Lowe's and found some bags of rubber mulch. It was quite
expensive - around $10 for 2 cubic feet, as I recall. I found the idea
sort
of disturbing. I didn't bother to look at the bag, but I assume that the
mulch is made from old tires.

It is. It is very useful for mulching under children's play
equipment, or in industrial areas.


Is there still metal fiber imbedded in the rubber (from "steel belted
radials)?

"Vox Humana" wrote:

"Tsu Dho Nimh" wrote in message
.. .
"Vox Humana" wrote:

Maybe I don't get out much, but a few days ago I was browsing the garden
department at Lowe's and found some bags of rubber mulch. It was quite
expensive - around $10 for 2 cubic feet, as I recall. I found the idea
sort
of disturbing. I didn't bother to look at the bag, but I assume that the
mulch is made from old tires.

It is. It is very useful for mulching under children's play
equipment, or in industrial areas.


Is there still metal fiber imbedded in the rubber (from "steel belted
radials)?

No. The process either just shreds the tread or they have some
way of removing the belting material during the process.




Tsu

--
To doubt everything or to believe everything
are two equally convenient solutions; both
dispense with the necessity of reflection.
- Jules Henri Poincaré

He is someone who would recommend using rusty nails and broken glass too.
So, I wouldn't take the advice too seriously.



Vox Humana wrote in message
...

"Tsu Dho Nimh" wrote in message
...
"Vox Humana" wrote:

Maybe I don't get out much, but a few days ago I was browsing the
garden
department at Lowe's and found some bags of rubber mulch. It was quite
expensive - around $10 for 2 cubic feet, as I recall. I found the idea
sort
of disturbing. I didn't bother to look at the bag, but I assume that
the
mulch is made from old tires.

It is. It is very useful for mulching under children's play
equipment, or in industrial areas.


Is there still metal fiber imbedded in the rubber (from "steel belted
radials)?

In article , Tsu Dho Nimh
wrote:

"Vox Humana" wrote:

"Tsu Dho Nimh" wrote in message
.. .
"Vox Humana" wrote:

Maybe I don't get out much, but a few days ago I was browsing the garden
department at Lowe's and found some bags of rubber mulch. It was quite
expensive - around $10 for 2 cubic feet, as I recall. I found the idea
sort
of disturbing. I didn't bother to look at the bag, but I assume that the
mulch is made from old tires.

It is. It is very useful for mulching under children's play
equipment, or in industrial areas.


Is there still metal fiber imbedded in the rubber (from "steel belted
radials)?

No. The process either just shreds the tread or they have some
way of removing the belting material during the process.

Tsu

Various "brands" claim different percentages of steel, from "less than 1%
steel" to "less than 5% steel." One brand claims to have no steel at all.
But nothing requires them to prove it, & the companies that sell this
stuff are just buyers on the open market for pulverized rubber left over
from higher in the recycling pecking order. The tires go to steel-recover
companies first, & then further down the latter the garden-packaging
companies get whatever the steel recovery companies send them. And the
amount of steel left in the rubber changes from one batch to the next.
Only one rubber mulch company claims they further clean the stuff (with
magnets) but they're lying & their factory is actually set up to dye the
stuff, not clean it. But on the basis of the claim, they charge more for
their product & insist it tests out to only .1% steel.

For every 5,000 pounds of tires recycled, about 2,000 pounds of steel is
recovered first, & another 2,000 pounds of shredded rubber goes to the
"rubber mulch" industry. The remaining 1,000 pounds is primarily the
rubber-to-steel bonding agents, & those that go for landfill, but that's
one-fifth as much as would otherwise have gone to landfill.

By & large it is the steel recovery companies that do the real work, & the
companies selling rubber mulch just buy the primary left-over waste.
Sometimes it is packaged as-received & sold to the public; sometimes it is
further processed for uniform colors. But processing at best is minimal
after it leaves the steel recovery people. The packagers of this junk have
very little control over the quality, & every claim of .1% or 3% or 0%
steel (all actual random claims) is just sales pitch nonsense not backed
up by independent lab analysis. I think it would be a best-case scenario
to assume any bag of rubber mulch had "only" 3-5 percent steel in it.
Though of course it is the zinc content that kills the plants, & any other
problems are just extra asides for not using it.

Tire manufacturing requires an achieves an amazing bond between rubber &
steel that holds up even to extremely high temperatures achieved on road
surfaces. When it comes time to recycle, the bond can never be 100%
undone, & the steel is never entirely gotten out of the rubber. But the
steel is worth a great deal more than the rubber (& unlike rubber is more
realistically recycled, since it can go into new steel products). So as
much of the steel as is possible to recover is recovered before a
completely different company gets the left-overs to package up & pretend
it is a good garden product.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

"Vox Humana" wrote in message
...
Maybe I don't get out much, but a few days ago I was browsing the garden
department at Lowe's and found some bags of rubber mulch.

snip

Yuck.

10 years ago we applied to be certified as organic. When the inspector was
here doing the initial inspection on the lay of the land and the use of
chemicals in the bottoms, etc., she noticed a horseshoe setup. The previous
owner had used old tractor tires as the surround on each pit. She said the
runoff from that space would be away from the certified land, however, she
strongly recommended getting rid of the tires. She said investigations had
been done and the chemical that old tires would leach into the soil was
definitely NOT to be in contact with food. And definitely not organic.

And now it is being sold as a permanent mulch.

Yuck.

Judy

"Judy and Dave G" wrote in message
...

"Vox Humana" wrote in message
...
Maybe I don't get out much, but a few days ago I was browsing the garden
department at Lowe's and found some bags of rubber mulch.

snip

Yuck.

10 years ago we applied to be certified as organic. When the inspector
was
here doing the initial inspection on the lay of the land and the use of
chemicals in the bottoms, etc., she noticed a horseshoe setup. The
previous
owner had used old tractor tires as the surround on each pit. She said
the
runoff from that space would be away from the certified land, however, she
strongly recommended getting rid of the tires. She said investigations
had
been done and the chemical that old tires would leach into the soil was
definitely NOT to be in contact with food. And definitely not organic.

And now it is being sold as a permanent mulch.

That was my initial thought. I knew that the material wouldn't be totally
inert and it wouldn't ever go away in my lifetime.

On Thu, 08 May 2003 18:18:33 GMT, "Cereoid-UR12"
wrote:

How did ground rubber get approved for use as mulch anyway?

PT Barnum lives on in 21st century garden marketing?

"There's a sucker born every minute."
"Advertising is like learning -- a little is a dangerous thing."



"Nature, left alone, is in perfect balance.
Harmful insects and plant diseases are always present,
but do not occur in nature to an extent which requires the use of poisonous chemicals.
The sensible approach to disease and insect control is to grow sturdy crops in a healthy environment."

Masanobu Fukuoka, One Straw Revolution--1978

On Thu, 08 May 2003 19:20:53 GMT, "Cereoid-UR12"
wrote:

It should be promptly removed from the shelves and BANNED!!!!

I'm curious, why does rubber mulch rile your sensibilities, but
fungicides seem to be OK?



"Nature, left alone, is in perfect balance.
Harmful insects and plant diseases are always present,
but do not occur in nature to an extent which requires the use of poisonous chemicals.
The sensible approach to disease and insect control is to grow sturdy crops in a healthy environment."

Masanobu Fukuoka, One Straw Revolution--1978

On Thu, 08 May 2003 13:33:18 -0700, Tsu Dho Nimh
wrote:

It is very useful for mulching under children's play
equipment,


Hell yes, poison the little *******s!


"Nature, left alone, is in perfect balance.
Harmful insects and plant diseases are always present,
but do not occur in nature to an extent which requires the use of poisonous chemicals.
The sensible approach to disease and insect control is to grow sturdy crops in a healthy environment."

Masanobu Fukuoka, One Straw Revolution--1978

Why dont they use ground up and recycled tire rubber to make MORE TIRES???
helloo??

Toad

Judy and Dave G wrote:
"Vox Humana" wrote in message
...

Maybe I don't get out much, but a few days ago I was browsing the garden
department at Lowe's and found some bags of rubber mulch.


snip

Yuck.

10 years ago we applied to be certified as organic. When the inspector was
here doing the initial inspection on the lay of the land and the use of
chemicals in the bottoms, etc., she noticed a horseshoe setup. The previous
owner had used old tractor tires as the surround on each pit. She said the
runoff from that space would be away from the certified land, however, she
strongly recommended getting rid of the tires. She said investigations had
been done and the chemical that old tires would leach into the soil was
definitely NOT to be in contact with food. And definitely not organic.

And now it is being sold as a permanent mulch.

Yuck.
Judy



You are making a big assumption that the inspector knew what she was
talking about, and was not just groping for something bad to say about old
tires because they offend her sensabilities.

Best regards,
Bob

Marley1372 wrote:

Why dont they use ground up and recycled tire rubber to make MORE TIRES???
helloo??

Toad

I think it makes more sense to crack the hydrocarbons in the rubber to make
diesel fuel. Or mix the rubber in small amounts with the coal burned in
power plants. Or feed stock for some other chemical process. Or filler
for asphalt roads or roof coatings.

The rubber is probably not good enough for making new tires. Remember all
the recent legal problems Ford and various tire makes had about the tires
failing dramatically on Ford Explorers?

Best regards,
Bob

In article zxcvbob writes:
Marley1372 wrote:

Why dont they use ground up and recycled tire rubber to make MORE TIRES???

The rubber is probably not good enough for making new tires. Remember all
the recent legal problems Ford and various tire makes had about the tires
failing dramatically on Ford Explorers?

Rubber does not just "melt down" into fresh rubber, like plastic.
Once it's vulcanized, it is what it is....

--

Andrew L. Duane (JOT-7)
HP/Compaq Corporation
110 Spit Brook Road
M/S ZKO3-3/U14
Nashua, NH 03062-2698 (603)-884-1294

In article , zxcvbob
wrote:

Judy and Dave G wrote:
"Vox Humana" wrote in message
...

Maybe I don't get out much, but a few days ago I was browsing the garden
department at Lowe's and found some bags of rubber mulch.


snip

Yuck.

10 years ago we applied to be certified as organic. When the inspector was
here doing the initial inspection on the lay of the land and the use of
chemicals in the bottoms, etc., she noticed a horseshoe setup. The previous
owner had used old tractor tires as the surround on each pit. She said the
runoff from that space would be away from the certified land, however, she
strongly recommended getting rid of the tires. She said investigations had
been done and the chemical that old tires would leach into the soil was
definitely NOT to be in contact with food. And definitely not organic.

And now it is being sold as a permanent mulch.

Yuck.
Judy



You are making a big assumption that the inspector knew what she was
talking about, and was not just groping for something bad to say about old
tires because they offend her sensabilities.

Best regards,
Bob

Rubber mulch toxifies the ground with excesses of zinc. It is non-organic
& very harmful.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

paghat wrote:

In article , zxcvbob
wrote:


Judy and Dave G wrote:

"Vox Humana" wrote in message
. ..


Maybe I don't get out much, but a few days ago I was browsing the garden
department at Lowe's and found some bags of rubber mulch.


snip

Yuck.

10 years ago we applied to be certified as organic. When the inspector was
here doing the initial inspection on the lay of the land and the use of
chemicals in the bottoms, etc., she noticed a horseshoe setup. The previous
owner had used old tractor tires as the surround on each pit. She said the
runoff from that space would be away from the certified land, however, she
strongly recommended getting rid of the tires. She said investigations had
been done and the chemical that old tires would leach into the soil was
definitely NOT to be in contact with food. And definitely not organic.

And now it is being sold as a permanent mulch.

Yuck.
Judy



You are making a big assumption that the inspector knew what she was
talking about, and was not just groping for something bad to say about old
tires because they offend her sensabilities.

Best regards,
Bob


Rubber mulch toxifies the ground with excesses of zinc. It is non-organic
& very harmful.

-paghat the ratgirl



Perhaps, but I was talking about the old tractor tire that was on the
property in the horseshoe pit in the original message. Not ground up tire
mulch.

Ground-up tires would have enough surface area that *maybe* metals or
cyclic hydrocarbons *might* leach out. But a whole tractor tire seems
pretty inert to me, and not much surface area. Anything that can leach out
already did leach out years ago.

Best regards,
Bob