I need help with a very basic project. Our new cedar fence was finally finished
Saturday, nine weeks after we ordered it and 4 weeks past passed the promised
completion date. This has created a perfect spot for a flower bed along the
fence.

But how do I turn the strip along the fence, which is now grass, into the
nicely cultivated soil of a flower bed?

I have to use basic garden tools, no power tools. Can I just turn the soil over
with a shovel, burying the grass, and then break up the soil? Will the grass
die under the soil or grow back? (The grass that was under the piles of soil
from the fence post holes sure seems dead after only a week.)

Or must I somehow kill or remove the grass first, before turning the soil?
Removing the grass without also taking a lot of top soil seems almost
impossible. Any advice on this would be appreciated.

GSHATTERHAND wrote:
I need help with a very basic project. Our new cedar fence was finally finished
Saturday, nine weeks after we ordered it and 4 weeks past passed the promised
completion date. This has created a perfect spot for a flower bed along the
fence.

But how do I turn the strip along the fence, which is now grass, into the
nicely cultivated soil of a flower bed?

I have to use basic garden tools, no power tools. Can I just turn the soil over
with a shovel, burying the grass, and then break up the soil? Will the grass
die under the soil or grow back? (The grass that was under the piles of soil
from the fence post holes sure seems dead after only a week.)

You can just turn the soil over; but unless you're planning to cover it
pretty deep with new soil, you're better off removing the grass. When
you break up the soil, it will then be full of broken-up grass roots
unless you've removed the grass first.

Or must I somehow kill or remove the grass first, before turning the soil?
Removing the grass without also taking a lot of top soil seems almost
impossible. Any advice on this would be appreciated.

Killing it is a waste of time since you'll need to remove it whether
alive or dead. Strip off the top 2 inches or so of sod using your
shovel, or a spade or hatchet. If there are other spots where you
need more lawn, just transplant the sod there (make sure to get a
decent amount of soil underneath the grass in this case). Otherwise,
just throw the sod in the compost.

If the idea of losing even a bit of topsoil bothers you, take each
clump of sod, flip it upside down, and beat it with the edge of
your spade until all the soil is released and only bare grass
roots remain; then toss the roots into the compost.

Be advised: removing the sod is long and tiring work, much harder
than just turning the soil over.

If you want to do it the easy way and you prefer raised beds
anyway: completely cover the new bed (grass and all) with
sheets of newspaper, overlapped, several sheets thick. Wet
the newspaper thoroughly and then dump several inches of new
topsoil and compost right on top. The grass will die and
won't be able to push up through the newspapers. If you
pile the new dirt high enough, the newspapers will have
rotted away by the time your flowers' roots try to grow
that far down. If the new soil layer is thinner (only 2-3
inches), you'll have to cut through the newspaper and
grass anywhere you make a planting hole.

- Alex

Subject: How Does A Lawn Become A Flower Bed?
From: Alexander Pensky

Be advised: removing the sod is long and tiring work, much harderthan just
turning the soil over.

I know! I confess I was hoping someone knew a easier way.



If you want to do it the easy way and you prefer raised bedsanyway:
completely cover the new bed (grass and all) withsheets of newspaper,
overlapped, several sheets thick. Wetthe newspaper thoroughly and then dump
several inches of newtopsoil and compost right on top. The grass will die
andwon't be able to push up through the newspapers. If youpile the new dirt
high enough, the newspapers will haverotted away by the time your flowers'
roots try to grow
that far down. If the new soil layer is thinner (only 2-3inches), you'll
have to cut through the newspaper andgrass anywhere you make a planting hole.

And here's that easier way! Never heard of this. The hot weather here and my
old back just may prompt be to use this method. Thank you, Alex.

I remember reading in Sunset Mag. how a woman killed her lawn. She covered
the parts of the lawn that she wanted to be flower beds with newspaper. She
put fresh manure (which you can probaley get from farmers and local horse
stables) over the newspaper. After that, she covered it the manure with top
soil.

At least I think thats how it went. I had loaned that particular edition of
Sunset to my Mother, and she has not returned it! *snivel*


"GSHATTERHAND" wrote in message
...
I need help with a very basic project. Our new cedar fence was finally
finished
Saturday, nine weeks after we ordered it and 4 weeks past passed the
promised
completion date. This has created a perfect spot for a flower bed along
the
fence.

But how do I turn the strip along the fence, which is now grass, into the
nicely cultivated soil of a flower bed?

I have to use basic garden tools, no power tools. Can I just turn the soil
over
with a shovel, burying the grass, and then break up the soil? Will the
grass
die under the soil or grow back? (The grass that was under the piles of
soil
from the fence post holes sure seems dead after only a week.)

Or must I somehow kill or remove the grass first, before turning the soil?
Removing the grass without also taking a lot of top soil seems almost
impossible. Any advice on this would be appreciated.

GSHATTERHAND wrote:

I need help with a very basic project. Our new cedar fence was finally finished
Saturday, nine weeks after we ordered it and 4 weeks past passed the promised
completion date. This has created a perfect spot for a flower bed along the
fence.

But how do I turn the strip along the fence, which is now grass, into the
nicely cultivated soil of a flower bed?

I have to use basic garden tools, no power tools. Can I just turn the soil over
with a shovel, burying the grass, and then break up the soil? Will the grass
die under the soil or grow back? (The grass that was under the piles of soil
from the fence post holes sure seems dead after only a week.)

Or must I somehow kill or remove the grass first, before turning the soil?
Removing the grass without also taking a lot of top soil seems almost
impossible. Any advice on this would be appreciated.

Scalp the bed with a mower. Cover with newspapers and mulch. Dig in
a few perennials now if you like. Wait.

What the others have said is true: This is hard work, but if you do it
right, you only need to do it once. Some thoughts on making it easier:

1) In terms of size (from the front of the bed to the fence), make it bigger
than your original idea. Gardeners usually end up with at least some plants
which don't look great all season long, and you'll want space to hide those
with other plants. Daffodil & tulip leaves are an example. You may also want
to be able to step into the back of the bed to trim & plant things, rather
than trying to lean all the way in from the grass. So, plan for small
"kneeling spaces". It's easier to plan size now than it is to try and
enlarge later.

2) If you decided to remove the grass, begin by watering very thoroughly two
days ahead of time. Not only will the job be less dusty, but deep weeds (if
any) will release from the soil more easily.

3) Sharpen your spade with a large file frequently as you work. Not razor
sharp, obviously, but...you'll see. Just a little touch-up makes a world of
difference. Cut the grass into manageable "tiles". Cut underneath each
section with the spade, and then remove the soil by one of the methods
described by Alexander. You don't have to remove 100%, but it's a shame to
lose 80% of it, unless the piece of sod can really be put to good use
elsewhere.

4) When it's done, drive the spade straight down as far as possible, where
the grass meets the edge of the bed. Do this regularly, and you'll minimize
the tendency of the lawn to invade the bed.

5) You do NOT have to "turn over" the soil as a rototiller would. Use a fork
to loosen the top 4" or so, by inserting the fork and rotating to loosen
clumps. All the labor's in your arms for this, and it's easy. You shouldn't
need to work hard unless you're dealing with heavy clay.
-Doug


"GSHATTERHAND" wrote in message
...
I need help with a very basic project. Our new cedar fence was finally
finished
Saturday, nine weeks after we ordered it and 4 weeks past passed the
promised
completion date. This has created a perfect spot for a flower bed along
the
fence.

But how do I turn the strip along the fence, which is now grass, into the
nicely cultivated soil of a flower bed?

I have to use basic garden tools, no power tools. Can I just turn the soil
over
with a shovel, burying the grass, and then break up the soil? Will the
grass
die under the soil or grow back? (The grass that was under the piles of
soil
from the fence post holes sure seems dead after only a week.)

Or must I somehow kill or remove the grass first, before turning the soil?
Removing the grass without also taking a lot of top soil seems almost
impossible. Any advice on this would be appreciated.

(GSHATTERHAND) wrote:

I have to use basic garden tools, no power tools. Can I just turn the soil
over
with a shovel, burying the grass, and then break up the soil? Will the grass
die under the soil or grow back? (The grass that was under the piles of soil
from the fence post holes sure seems dead after only a week.)

Or must I somehow kill or remove the grass first, before turning the soil?
Removing the grass without also taking a lot of top soil seems almost
impossible. Any advice on this would be appreciated.

I use a garden fork and dig up the sod, remove the soil from the roots
and then remove the grass, weeds and their roots. It is similar to
spading the soil, except I dig up the sod with the fork, turn it over,
pound on it with the fork until the dirt falls off, and then throw away
the piece of sod minus all of the soil that was on it. You can compost
the grass and weeds and then use it as a top dressing next year.

The soil that is left is perfect for starting a flower bed. Where I
live, I have to remove tons of rocks from the soil also, I have been
known to mulch a flower bed with the stones I removed. You can plant
annuals easily. I would prepare a bed for perrenials by applying some
peat compost to the soil and working it in first.

--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
Visit my Rhododendron and Azalea web pages at:
http://www.users.fast.net/~shenning/rhody.html
Also visit the Rhododendron and Azalea Bookstore at:
http://members.aol.com/rhodyman/rhodybooks.html
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA http://www.users.fast.net/~shenning

"GSHATTERHAND" wrote in message
...

Rent a sod cutter and strip the sod from the bed area. You will have to
hand work the spots nearest the fence. Haul in enough soil to raise the bed
one foot.

Reply to:

I need help with a very basic project. Our new cedar fence was finally
finished
Saturday, nine weeks after we ordered it and 4 weeks past passed the
promised
completion date. This has created a perfect spot for a flower bed along
the
fence.

But how do I turn the strip along the fence, which is now grass, into the
nicely cultivated soil of a flower bed?

I have to use basic garden tools, no power tools. Can I just turn the soil
over
with a shovel, burying the grass, and then break up the soil? Will the
grass
die under the soil or grow back? (The grass that was under the piles of
soil
from the fence post holes sure seems dead after only a week.)

Or must I somehow kill or remove the grass first, before turning the soil?
Removing the grass without also taking a lot of top soil seems almost
impossible. Any advice on this would be appreciated.

GSHATTERHAND wrote:

And here's that easier way! Never heard of this. The hot weather here and my
old back just may prompt be to use this method. Thank you, Alex.

I can wholeheartedly recommend this method. The only difference here is
that I wait 6 months to a year before planting anything in it. My
flower beds tend to be huge (so far, about 100 ft. long and 20 ft. deep
on average), and I need time to observe the sun/shade conditions, plan
out the shape of the bed, what plants I have that I'd like to repeat,
what new plants I'd like to add, etc.

BTW, the research and planning is half the fun.

Suja

The simplest way is to deliniate the area you wish to convert (I use garden
hose to play with the shape until it looks good) and then spray it with
Roundup. After 10 days or so, you can plant right in wherever you wish and
mulch/edge the space.

Dave

"GSHATTERHAND" wrote in message
...
I need help with a very basic project. Our new cedar fence was finally
finished
Saturday, nine weeks after we ordered it and 4 weeks past passed the
promised
completion date. This has created a perfect spot for a flower bed along
the
fence.

But how do I turn the strip along the fence, which is now grass, into the
nicely cultivated soil of a flower bed?

I have to use basic garden tools, no power tools. Can I just turn the soil
over
with a shovel, burying the grass, and then break up the soil? Will the
grass
die under the soil or grow back? (The grass that was under the piles of
soil
from the fence post holes sure seems dead after only a week.)

Or must I somehow kill or remove the grass first, before turning the soil?
Removing the grass without also taking a lot of top soil seems almost
impossible. Any advice on this would be appreciated.

"Suja" wrote in message
...

BTW, the research and planning is half the fun.


Planning? :-) What planning?

"David J Bockman" wrote in message
news
The simplest way is to deliniate the area you wish to convert (I use
garden
hose to play with the shape until it looks good) and then spray it with
Roundup. After 10 days or so, you can plant right in wherever you wish and
mulch/edge the space.

Yeah. You can plant herbs and eat them. No problem. Roundup is safe. The
manufacturer says so.

Suja wrote:

GSHATTERHAND wrote:

And here's that easier way! Never heard of this. The hot weather here
and my
old back just may prompt be to use this method. Thank you, Alex.


I can wholeheartedly recommend this method. The only difference here is
that I wait 6 months to a year before planting anything in it. My
flower beds tend to be huge (so far, about 100 ft. long and 20 ft. deep
on average), and I need time to observe the sun/shade conditions, plan
out the shape of the bed, what plants I have that I'd like to repeat,
what new plants I'd like to add, etc.

BTW, the research and planning is half the fun.

I wish I had that much patience! I buy lots and lots of perennials
on impulse and just stick them in the ground wherever there's a few
inches of room left. After a season or two of growing, it becomes
obvious if they're in the wrong spot, and I dig them up and move
them.

My "lazy man's gardening" experiment for this year is: for any of
my perennials which look like they might propagate OK from stem
or softwood cuttings, I am taking some cuttings and just jamming
them into the ground in a flower bed. I want to see which ones
are so easy-to-grow that I can succeed this way without rooting
hormone or plastic baggies or misting or any of that nonsense.

So far the herbs have been the most promising. Common thyme,
in particular, grows like wildfire if you just rip out a handful,
toss it on the ground somewhere else, and bury it under good
soil with a few shoots sticking out. (As long as there are some
roots on the handful.)

Anyone else admit to doing this?


- Alex

"Alexander Pensky" wrote in message
...

So far the herbs have been the most promising. Common thyme,
in particular, grows like wildfire if you just rip out a handful,
toss it on the ground somewhere else, and bury it under good
soil with a few shoots sticking out. (As long as there are some
roots on the handful.)

Anyone else admit to doing this?


No, but I once read about a number of ways to eradicate mint, but decided
that MY mint was different than every other mint, so I just cut it off at
ground level. It got huge and ate two neighborhood children.

Alexander Pensky wrote:
(snip)
My "lazy man's gardening" experiment for this year is: for any of
my perennials which look like they might propagate OK from stem
or softwood cuttings, I am taking some cuttings and just jamming
them into the ground in a flower bed. I want to see which ones
are so easy-to-grow that I can succeed this way without rooting
hormone or plastic baggies or misting or any of that nonsense.

So far the herbs have been the most promising. Common thyme,
in particular, grows like wildfire if you just rip out a handful,
toss it on the ground somewhere else, and bury it under good
soil with a few shoots sticking out. (As long as there are some
roots on the handful.)

Anyone else admit to doing this?
(snip)

You mean this is not the way everyone does it? :-)

Being more than just a little tight on the wallet with a lot of
potential garden opportunities this strategy is a must. I've been
moderately successful with Loropetalum. Having purchased five original
plants I now have five more that have made it for most or all of a full
season. I did exactly what you said, took a cutting and stuck it in the
ground with nothing on it. I do seem to have more success if I gently
scrape the outer bark layer off to get to the green inner layer. I have
not specially watered or pampered them.

I'm also encouraged by the progress on two of five cuttings from two
contorted filberts. I tried one crepe myrtle, but it doesn't look good.
Next I may try a burning bush and my Trident maples.

I'm still trying it with Japanese Maples. In previous years this has
been a bust, but this year I have three or four that put out small
leaves and are still growing. I cut them originally in March or so just
as the buds were barely beginning to swell. I am keeping them shaded to
avoid too much stress from the north Atlanta sun in between torrents of
rain.