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10-07-2003, 05:32 AM

wrote:
fish can survive malathion, they cannot survive pyrethrums. Modern
farmers and a lot of other people are using integrated pest management.
Part is putting up with some damage, part is using the least toxic
compound that does the job and part is applying even that to a very
limited area. Bt may sound innocuous, but it kills monarch caterpillars
and probably other caterpillars as well.

That's why you don't spray milkweeds with it. I've never seen any
butterflies except cabbage "moths" in my cabbage, broccoli, squash, or
cucumbers.

Everything used has some non specificity and kills "good guys". It
takes a lot of research to find the right stuff to use at the right
time. Too often people are aligned on the extremes of organic only OR
the Steins full arsenal of poisons. Doesnt seem to be many voices of the
in between. If I use the most toxic shit but only spray a rose bush in
a pot on the patio this is nothing compared to spraying everything in
the garden even with Bt. or worse, using some "safer" product that
doesnt work and out of frustration people march right into Steins and
pick up the really toxic stuff. If I hear one more "spray the aphids
with garlic" I am going to scream.

I still have chlordane. I'm saving it in case I ever have to deal with
subterranian termites. Who is Steins anyway?

I would rather people admit that some plants are aphid magnets and the
most logical thing to do is slash and burn the plant. this is how I
feel about roses. since they are in planters I dont mind feeding them
systemic but rather than screw around with spraying them with funginex
for black spot I let em croak. Roses are annuals unless they can make it
on their own. Ingrid

The main reason I'm writing this is to respond about the roses. I bought a
couple of those "Brownell Sub-Zero" roses from Gurney's or Henry Fields
about 8 or 10 years ago. I ordered "Jumbo" sized plants, and I received
scrawny little things that were not even grade 2. I planted them, and one
died right away because it had no roots, and the other took off and is
thriving. The variety is "Maria Stern", and it survives the winters in S.
Minnesota without protection. When everything else in the bed is dying
from mildew, it is disease free. I've never even seen black spot on it.
If it ever gets aphids, I'll spray it (probably with Black Leaf 40 or
malathion), but I have never had to yet. Other varieties in this series
are "Arctic Flame", "Helen Hayes", "Lily Pons", and Margaret Chase Smith".
A big part of IPM is variety selection, and I highly recommend these if
you can find them.

Best regards, :-)
Bob

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