(paghat) wrote in
news
the meantime anyone with aluminum kitchen pots & utensils should toss
them immediately; & check medications & deodorants for aluminates with
which we may be dosing ourselves orally or through the skin every day.
As for aluminum beverage cans, they are coated inside & out --
everwhere except where the key-hole opening bares the raw aluminum in
the one place we'd put our mouths. So I avoid those too.

I'd be more worried about the sodium aluminum phosphate they typically use
in fake cheese. other possibly bad stuff for your brain: monosodium
glutamate (MSG) and aspartme (Nutrasweet)

- Salty

"Don K" wrote in
:

"paghat" wrote in message
news



Man-made aluminum & aluminates MIGHT have some involvement in the
development of alzheimers disease, though years back when Science
Digest did a whole issue about it, looked like only about one out of
ten researchers thought it much likely.

Aluminum is an element and strictly speaking, is not something that
is man-made.

Arguably the stuff that comes to you is man-made (in the same way a wooden
chair is man-made) as it needs to be processed from bauxite and other
struddlishish stuff that I don't recall going by the name Hall-Herholtz
process (or just Hall if you don't like simultaneous discoveries).

[snip]....So while the science
proving or disproving a source of explanation for these deposits has
failed to clarify the issue, in the meantime anyone with aluminum
kitchen pots & utensils should toss them immediately;

What credible authority recommends that? NIH doesn't.

http://www.niehs.nih.gov/external/faq/alum.htm

That's all nice and good if you trust the government. The same government
that said you can't get anthrax in the mail and spent beaucoup bucks
fumigating government offices and didn't get around to giving el cheapo
masks or gloves to postal personnel until later, but I digress.

I agree it seems unlikely that you'll get aluminum toxicity from cans or
cookware, it's more likely the stuff you eat and is passed as 'safe'. I'm
a little wishy-washy on the subject, from my little knowledge of chemistry,
the binding energy of aluminum oxide is quite high and anodizing it causes
the protective layer of aluminum oxide to cover the entire surfaces (no
significant gaps), so getting some aluminum out of that should be quite
difficult, but then I'm reminded of the all the corrosion I've seen on
aluminum storm windows and think, why take the chance?

I wouldn't want aluminum in the garden, first because it would be,
like plastic, an eyesoar, for I like things to look as woodsy-natural
as possible.

Considering that the earth is 8.1% aluminum, I'd say it would be
entirely fitting to have some aluminum in the garden.

If my garden is already 8.1% aluminum I don't see why it would be necessary
to add more.

-- Salty

"Dwight Sipler" wrote in message
...
al wrote:

One of my gardening books suggests using old aluminium cans to make
permanent
plant labels. I assume you scratch the plant name onto the shiny metal
side of the aluminium foil. Excuse my ignorance, but does this work...
erm
how long do they last ? (Does the metal colourize over time ?)




I've not used this technique but it would probably work somewhat. You
would just cut the can into strips and write on the inside with some
sort of stylus (an old ball point pen would work). The metal is soft and
will take an impression of the writing if you back it up with a couple
of sheets of newspaper on a hard surface. The writing is just impressed
in the metal surface and is not colored, so it is not easy to read from
a distance.

Aluminum does oxidize over time, particularly when exposed to acid rain.
However, the metal labels you buy at the garden center will likely have
the same problem. The cans have the advantage that they're anodized to
prevent corrosion by the stuff they put into them.

The strips of aluminum can will have sharp edges, so you might want to
bend them over to avoid hazards to small children and pets.

I hung mine from varnished copper wire. (avail from TV, but galvanic action
hurts aluminium)

creating these is a very time consuming way to get very few and flimsy
labels with sharp edges. I consider it an experiment from my youthful
time-wasting youth. (redundancy)

(unless you're Ted kascymski[sp] in a remote cabin with hand tools):
I recommend you buy and ration the long lasting durable labels. use plastic
(PVC) labels for seed staring pencil marks can be rubbed off. surviving
plants receive permanent labels after proving their survival and other value
(pollen or seed source, etc)



The labels will have to be mounted on something to hold them up. A
length of galvanized wire can be bent around the strip and hammered
tight to hold the label. Wood supports will rot.

wrote in message
...
Dwight Sipler wrote:

The strips of aluminum can will have sharp edges, so you might want to
bend them over to avoid hazards to small children and pets.

I think cutting up a bleach jug and using a permanent marker might be a
better
idea. No sharp edges and the plastic lasts a long time.

hdpe goes fast in uv's. all pe resists glues, paints, markers.

btw, laundry marker lasts longer (1 yr) than sharpies (3 months) when
exposed to sunlight.


Could be a use for
old floppies too. Thread a wire or string through the hole and write on
the
floppy with a marker.


fwiw, aol cd's in sun don't hold sharpie very long either.

"Salty Thumb" wrote in message
...
Pat Meadows wrote in
:

Or cutting up an old mini-blind. (Or a new mini-blind, for
that matter.) A mini-blind makes hundreds of labels.

Pat

You should be careful using in old mini-blinds for anything, as older
stuff
(and even some newer stuff) used lead as stablizers. Probably only
applies
to vinyl blinds but I wouldn't be surprised if some really ancient stuff
had lead in the paint. Do a search if it applies to you.

- Salty

I suspect the lead was used as color much as lead and titanium oxides in
paint.

http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...1995+%7C+1994+

Environmental Lead Sources
.... Miniblinds In June of 1996, the US Consumer ... Mini-blinds which have
been purchased
since July 1996 should ... Safety Alert!...New Source of Lead Poisoning
Identified ...
stopleadpoisoning.com/enviroleadsources.html - 31k

"Dwight Sipler" wrote in message
...
paghat wrote:

...I'm picturing a garden decorated with cut-up Budweisser cans & Clorox
bottles.

paghat gave lots of creative ideas

ilike the idea (modified) of using uv resitant paint (epoxy??) on cheap
ceramic tile.


How 'bout making an elaborate paper collage with the name of each plant
somewhere on the collage, imbed the collage in a block of fiberglass
resin, mount the block of resin on a three foot length of rebar, & pound
these in the ground in front of each plant....plus several other
suggestions...



I know a couple of guys who would like their garden decorated with beer
cans (Labatt's blue, not Bud), but it's not for everyone.

The labels are generally meant to be unobtrusive, just there for
information, so they might be small and not detract from the flowers
(which are, after all, the main point). Also, the printed label part of
the cans would be on the back, so you'd only see the "inside" of the
can. Personally, I'd rather put my effort into the garden and not the
labels, but then my garden is just there without any labels at all, so
you will have to guess what's what.

PS: plastic bottles are generally not protected against solar UV, so
they will disintegrate with exposure. Anywhere from a couple of months
to a couple of years.

PET (recycling #1) last along time in the sun, 10 years and only partially
weakened) but they resist marking. they could be scratched, but scratched
names (such as Comtesse de Canker § will likely be illegible, due to limited
control of the scrawling tool.


----
§ Unfortunate Rose Names http://members.aol.com/mmmavocad2/RoseNames.html

"paghat" wrote in message
news
In article , al
wrote:


The Rhododendron Species Foundation has sometimes used aluminum tags for
field-grown species shrubs -- as these labels have to last several years
before the shrubs are old enough to put on sale. The tags must be removed
from plants before the shrubs are sold, as one rarely sees any of them,
but I obtained one rhody from them that I later found had an aluminum tag
that had the attached end deeply imbedded in the bark. The aluminum had
been EMBOSSED with species name, date it was planted (or a least tagged, a
decade earlier), & initials RSF. There must be some equivalent of those
plastic label strips to emboss aluminum strips instead of plastic.

yes i've seen old metal stamping sets (amateru) they are perhaps cheapo
versoins of old manual typsetting lettering sets. look like the metal
striking surface from typewriters. very time cionsuming to line teh blocks
in a holder, though i've never tried.

The surface of aluminum turns black over time & rubs off, though I
wouldn't call that "colourize" which is what I thought crazy rich *******s
did to classic black & white films.




Man-made aluminum & aluminates MIGHT have some involvement in the
development of alzheimers disease, though years back when Science Digest
did a whole issue about it, looked like only about one out of ten
researchers thought it much likely. A few researchers think the link is
plausible; others think the aluminum deposits are an incidental
side-effect of other causes. From a lay perspective though it seems that
the only other possible explanation for these deposits, other than from
our continuous exposure to man-made aluminum, is that the human body can
go wacky & begin to manufacture aluminum from boxite,

[bauxite in english]

which is all around
us in the natural environment whereas aluminum is not. For there's no
question but that the majority of alzheimer patients have amazingly high
levels of aluminum deposits in the brain tissue. So while the science
proving or disproving a source of explanation for these deposits has
failed to clarify the issue, in the meantime anyone with aluminum kitchen
pots & utensils should toss them immediately; & check medications &
deodorants for aluminates with which we may be dosing ourselves orally or
through the skin every day. As for aluminum beverage cans, they are coated
inside & out -- everwhere except where the key-hole opening bares the raw
aluminum in the one place we'd put our mouths. So I avoid those too.

I wouldn't want aluminum in the garden, first because it would be, like
plastic, an eyesoar, for I like things to look as woodsy-natural as
possible. Plus, even if a few aluminum tags here & there would likely be
harmless whether or not aluminum's connection to severe loss of mental
faculty can be shown to be factual, it'd still be like hanging symbols of
humanity's self-invented doom all around the place, & I prefer the
symbolism of my gardens to refer more to Eden rather than some futuristic
city designed by Albert Speer.

-paghat the ratgirl
preferring to die from UNrefined sugar

than from pol;yKeferiNacronates or KrapoOrganKeellerKryonitez?

"David Hill" wrote in message
...
"....... One of my gardening books suggests using old aluminium cans to
make permanent plant labels. I assume you scratch the plant name onto
the
shiny metal
side of the aluminium foil. Excuse my ignorance, but does this work...
erm
how long do they last ? (Does the metal colourize over time ?) ........"

You cut the label to the size you want then using an old Ball point pen
you
inscribe the name, the indentation will last for years.

that was my final incarnation of my time wasting experiments. but was still
too difficult to control the writing to be legible later.

and my wire was still incorrect. SS wire might be better, but where to get
at scrap prices?


If you want to label tree or shrub then make a hole at each end . Insert
soft wire into one end, then wind several coils around your ball point
pen
to form a coil like a spring, then plain wire to other end of the label.
As the tree or shrub grows there is plenty of slack in the coil, so
nothing
gets embedded in the plant.

or you can hammer a nail hole and stuff the wire radially oriented into the
limb. would avoid this if would attract disease in your areas.

David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

al wrote in message ...
One of my gardening books suggests using old aluminium cans to make permanent
plant labels. I assume you scratch the plant name onto the shiny metal
side of the aluminium foil. Excuse my ignorance, but does this work... erm
how long do they last ? (Does the metal colourize over time ?)

Make a map of the garden if you need to know what is planted where. I
have hundreds of plants on an acre of gardens and no labels. I am
fortunate that I can identify and remember the name of plants. Draw
the trees and shrubs and a border of the garden and any perennials,
then laminate it, and use a china marker to put in the annuals. End
of the season, you can wipe it clean and plan next years planting.

Cheers,

Ned

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:24:10 -0400, Pat Meadows
wrote:

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:46:21 GMT,
wrote:

Dwight Sipler wrote:

The strips of aluminum can will have sharp edges, so you might want to
bend them over to avoid hazards to small children and pets.

I think cutting up a bleach jug and using a permanent marker might be a better
idea. No sharp edges and the plastic lasts a long time. Could be a use for
old floppies too. Thread a wire or string through the hole and write on the
floppy with a marker.

Or cutting up an old mini-blind. (Or a new mini-blind, for
that matter.) A mini-blind makes hundreds of labels.

This subject came up recently and I was going to suggest just buying
plastic plant markers. Then searched for them in the places I used to
buy them, and they seemed in rather short supply. And a lot more
expensive than I remember. The availibility of old mini (or maxi?)
blinds, plastic jugs, etc., plus the labor of slicing 'em up seemed
like a lot more trouble than just buying pre-cut labels and and
outdoor marking pen. When I was heavily into growing greenhouse veg
plants, I got packs of 50 or 100 plastic labels for a very reasonable
price. I *do* agree with "waste not; want not" but only of one's own
labor (and materials and tools involved) are over-plentiful.

I like the labels made from the narrow plastic venetitian blind slats.
For the lettering ink from a perm sharpie pen will eventually fade,
but I've used enamel paint that lasts a long time.

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:00:44 -0400, "Don K" wrote:


Aluminum is an element and strictly speaking, is not something that
is man-made.

That's correct, but I no longer buy soda in cans for my husband. I only buy
plastic bottles and they all go to the recycle municipality in our city. There
was a report, and I don't remember where, but I do recall it was credible that
there is a lot of aluminum found in the soda they house. I never bought another
can and only used frozen vegetables unless they come from my soil.


What credible authority recommends that? NIH doesn't.

http://www.niehs.nih.gov/external/faq/alum.htm

Very true, but my guess is the cans we find soda in are not pure aluminum, but
some sort of alloy primarily made up of aluminum. I also use parchment paper to
cover oven cooked meals and put the aluminum over the paper so not to touch the
food.

It may all be silly and a part of the grand fear machine in the U.S. Who knows.

Considering that the earth is 8.1% aluminum, I'd say it would be
entirely fitting to have some aluminum in the garden.

Don

I-did-not-know-that!

V

Guys - here is a source for plant tags -
http://www.nationalband.com/nbtplant.htm#2725

The type that you impress with a ballpoint works very well as there is no ink
to wash off or fade.

California Plastics has inexpensive aluminum tags that last years :

http://www.calpp.com/gardenaccessories.htm (first product on the top of the
page)

In article , "Don K"
wrote:

"paghat" wrote in message
news



Man-made aluminum & aluminates MIGHT have some involvement in the
development of alzheimers disease, though years back when Science Digest
did a whole issue about it, looked like only about one out of ten
researchers thought it much likely.

Aluminum is an element and strictly speaking, is not something that
is man-made.

Pure aluminum does not exist in nature, & its existence was not even known
until 1808, & it was another 80 years before it could be extracted
affordably from boxite & alumina. Boxite is found just about everywhere in
nature; aluminum per se is not. When metalurgists first learned to purify
aluminum from boxite, it cost more per ounce than gold. Nowadays it costs
us here in the Northwest our salmon resources, there being no more salmon
runs at all in rivers & streams near aluminum plants.

-paggers

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

In article ,
wrote:

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:00:44 -0400, "Don K" wrote:


Aluminum is an element and strictly speaking, is not something that
is man-made.

That's correct, but I no longer buy soda in cans for my husband. I only buy
plastic bottles and they all go to the recycle municipality in our city.

Plastic bottles are associated with an estrogen-like molecule believed to
be partially responsible for the lowering fertility rate of American men.
So, it's a choice between aluminum & alzheimers, or plastic &
impotence..... I think you've made the right choice. There are already too
many people.

-paghat the ratgirl

There
was a report, and I don't remember where, but I do recall it was credible that
there is a lot of aluminum found in the soda they house. I never bought
another
can and only used frozen vegetables unless they come from my soil.

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/