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#31
16-07-2003, 04:03 AM
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Plant Labels - from used aluminium cans
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#32
16-07-2003, 05:42 AM
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Plant Labels - from used aluminium cans
In article , "Don K"
wrote: "paghat" wrote in message news  In article , "Don K" wrote: Man-made aluminum & aluminates MIGHT have some involvement in the development of alzheimers disease, though years back when Science Digest did a whole issue about it, looked like only about one out of ten researchers thought it much likely. Aluminum is an element and strictly speaking, is not something that is man-made. Pure aluminum does not exist in nature, & its existence was not even known until 1808, & it was another 80 years before it could be extracted affordably from boxite & alumina. Boxite is found just about everywhere in nature; aluminum per se is not. When metalurgists first learned to purify aluminum from boxite, it cost more per ounce than gold. Nowadays it costs us here in the Northwest our salmon resources, there being no more salmon runs at all in rivers & streams near aluminum plants. Most mining involves dealing with nasty by-products. A lot of gold is also obtained by refining ore thru all sorts of chemical processes. Yet we don't refer to it as man-made gold. There's no alchemy involved. It's just recovering the gold that is locked up in other compounds. Gold can be toxic to the liver and kidneys. Perhaps a prudent person should stop wearing man-made gold while avoiding aluminum. Don Never heard about gold being toxic -- I guess I better not bury my great horde of dubloons in the garden -- but I've seen piles of extremely toxic rubble left over from gold mining. I still sorta feel there's a difference between gold which DOES exist in a pure state naturally (in addition to dissolved state in the ocean & finely powdered in some environments, & aluminum which as an ore is bauxite of quite a different character altogether. If pure god did NOT exist in nature until purified by human hands, I would regard it as man-made, yes, just as the transuranic elements can mainly only be brought about by the activity of scientists. But anyway, my only point was that the aluminum deposits in alzheimer-sufferers' brains is the stuff people purify, rather than resembling the ore that exists in dusty aspect in everyone's gardens. So either the brain's electrical charges must manufacturer it from the environment, or what SEEMS more likely, our daily exposure to created aluminum is making some of us stupider than we used to be. Here's a web article about the bits I worry about (from a school of biology p.o.v. rather than my ecology worry-wart p.o.v.): http://student.biology.arizona.edu/ad/bbb.html -paghat -- "Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher. "Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature. -from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers" See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/ |
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#33
16-07-2003, 06:03 AM
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Plant Labels - from used aluminium cans
"Don K" wrote in
: Most mining involves dealing with nasty by-products. A lot of gold is also obtained by refining ore thru all sorts of chemical processes. Yet we don't refer to it as man-made gold. There's no alchemy involved. It's just recovering the gold that is locked up in other compounds. The difference is refined or man-made gold is more or less indistinguishible from naturally occuring pure gold (and nobody's saying gold isn't found in ore, although I question, historically, how gold has been recovered by refining from ores vs. how much was just laying around, more or less pure), whereas you just don't find sheets of aluminum or aluminum oxide lying around. Well, you might if you live in a junky neighborhood, but you still know it's in an unnatural state. Gold can be toxic to the liver and kidneys. Perhaps a prudent person should stop wearing man-made gold while avoiding aluminum. I can see how that could be a problem if you go around looking like Mr. T or have some Trumpesqe fascination with gilding things like spoons, forks and cups. But unless you're eating gold flakes for breakfast, it's still not quite the same. Drinking too much water *can* be toxic, but nobody's saying stop drinking water. - Salty |
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#34
16-07-2003, 08:02 AM
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Plant Labels - from used aluminium cans
"paghat" wrote in message news In article , "Don K" wrote: "paghat" wrote in message news In article , "Don K" wrote: Man-made aluminum & aluminates MIGHT have some involvement in the development of alzheimers disease, though years back when Science Digest did a whole issue about it, looked like only about one out of ten researchers thought it much likely. Aluminum is an element and strictly speaking, is not something that is man-made. Pure aluminum does not exist in nature, & its existence was not even known until 1808, & it was another 80 years before it could be extracted affordably from boxite & alumina. Boxite is found just about everywhere in nature; aluminum per se is not. When metalurgists first learned to purify aluminum from boxite, it cost more per ounce than gold. Nowadays it costs us here in the Northwest our salmon resources, there being no more salmon runs at all in rivers & streams near aluminum plants. Most mining involves dealing with nasty by-products. A lot of gold is also obtained by refining ore thru all sorts of chemical processes. Yet we don't refer to it as man-made gold. There's no alchemy involved. It's just recovering the gold that is locked up in other compounds. Gold can be toxic to the liver and kidneys. Perhaps a prudent person should stop wearing man-made gold while avoiding aluminum. Don Never heard about gold being toxic -- I guess I better not bury my great horde of dubloons in the garden -- but I've seen piles of extremely toxic rubble left over from gold mining. I still sorta feel there's a difference between gold which DOES exist in a pure state naturally (in addition to dissolved state in the ocean & finely powdered in some environments, & aluminum which as an ore is bauxite of quite a different character altogether. If pure god did NOT exist in nature until purified by human hands, I would regard it as man-made, yes, just as the transuranic elements can mainly only be brought about by the activity of scientists. But anyway, my only point was that the aluminum deposits in alzheimer-sufferers' brains is the stuff people purify, rather than resembling the ore that exists in dusty aspect in everyone's gardens. So either the brain's electrical charges must manufacturer it from the environment, or what SEEMS more likely, our daily exposure to created aluminum is making some of us stupider than we used to be. Here's a web article about the bits I worry about (from a school of biology p.o.v. rather than my ecology worry-wart p.o.v.): http://student.biology.arizona.edu/ad/bbb.html By your reckoning practically all metals are man-made, as is concrete. I find it hard to think of anything other than wood which would by your standards be "natutal" Franz Heymann |
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#36
16-07-2003, 12:42 PM
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Plant Labels - from used aluminium cans
"Franz Heymann" wrote in
: There are no such things as gold ores to my knowledge. Gold is an almost inert element. As far as I know, gold is always found as a simple metal. Gold has low reactivity, but isn't near as unreactive as the 'noble gases' (but I hear you can even make compounds with one of the heavier elements, Xenon?) . The one thing I remember is telluride ore, I'm not sure if that means tellurium or rare earth elements in general. I also don't know if it's chemically or merely mechanically bound. -- Salty |
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#37
16-07-2003, 11:42 PM
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Plant Labels - from used aluminium cans
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#38
17-07-2003, 12:32 AM
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Plant Labels - from used aluminium cans
"Ned Flanders" wrote in message om... There are no such things as gold ores to my knowledge. Sure there is, Calaverite, Chalcocite, Bornite, Chalcopyrite and enargite, are a few.... Gold is an almost inert element. As far as I know, gold is always found as a simple metal. No. That would be native gold--which is rare. Most gold is in ores. That is incorrect. 95% of the gold mined in the world occurs as native gold, or as gold-silver alloys (or simple mechanical mixtures. I am not quite certain). The only gold ore of any significance id Calaverite, which is gold telluride, which is mined in quantities which are small compared to the native gold mined in South Africa. The other minerals you quote do not contain any gold in their chemical compositions. Franz Heymann Cheers, Ned |
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#39
17-07-2003, 12:33 AM
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Plant Labels - from used aluminium cans
"Franz Heymann" wrote in
: That is incorrect. 95% of the gold mined in the world occurs as native gold, or as gold-silver alloys (or simple mechanical mixtures. I am not quite certain). The only gold ore of any significance id Calaverite, which is gold telluride, which is mined in quantities which are small compared to the native gold mined in South Africa. The other minerals you quote do not contain any gold in their chemical compositions. Here's a site that agrees with us: http://mineral.galleries.com/mineral.../gold/gold.htm "There are very few true gold ores, besides native gold, because it forms a major part of only a few rare minerals, it is found as little more than a trace in a few others or it is alloyed to a small extent with other metals such as silver. " and "A few of the tellurides are nagyagite, calaverite, sylvanite and krennerite. These are all minor ores of gold but their contributions to the supply of gold pales next to native gold's own contribution. " -- Salty |
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#40
17-07-2003, 12:43 AM
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Plant Labels - from used aluminium cans
What is the relevance of gold mining to Plant labels????????
I can see a gold mine would help to buy all the plants we would like to have. -- David Hill Abacus nurseries www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk |
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#41
17-07-2003, 12:43 AM
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Plant Labels - from used aluminium cans
"Ned Flanders" wrote in message
om... Gold can be toxic to the liver and kidneys. Perhaps a prudent person should stop wearing man-made gold while avoiding aluminum. Don It's compounds are, but gold worn as jewelry or eaten on desserts or drunk in liquor are for the most part inert and not readily absorbed by the body therefore not a concern. Cheers, Ned Gold is not absorbed well by the body and its compounds are not normally particularly toxic. Up to 50% of arthritic patients treated with gold-containing drugs may show toxic effects however resulting in damage to the liver and to the kidneys. http://www.webelements.com/webelemen...t/Au/biol.html I was being sarcastic. I'm not concerned about the toxicity of aluminum or gold and I'm not going to avoid either one just because someone comes up with an inconclusive factoid that it may be toxic. If the scientific or medical community ever makes a judgment that these metals should be avoided, then I will listen. Until then, it's just another crackpot idea for alarmists to get themselves worked up over. Don |
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#42
17-07-2003, 12:52 AM
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Plant Labels - from used aluminium cans
"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
... "Ned Flanders" wrote in message om... There are no such things as gold ores to my knowledge. Sure there is, Calaverite, Chalcocite, Bornite, Chalcopyrite and enargite, are a few.... Gold is an almost inert element. As far as I know, gold is always found as a simple metal. No. That would be native gold--which is rare. Most gold is in ores. That is incorrect. 95% of the gold mined in the world occurs as native gold, or as gold-silver alloys (or simple mechanical mixtures. I am not quite certain). The only gold ore of any significance id Calaverite, which is gold telluride, which is mined in quantities which are small compared to the native gold mined in South Africa. The other minerals you quote do not contain any gold in their chemical compositions. Franz Heymann Just because most gold mined is "native" gold, doesn't mean that's where most gold occurs. It's just not economically feasible to recover most gold. From http://www.toxassociates.com/gold.htm Gold is present in almost all rocks and soil. In addition, all the oceans contain dissolved gold. But most gold is too scarcely distributed to recover profitably. People recover gold only where nature has concentrated the metal in the earth's crust. In nature, gold is usually combined with silver in an alloy called electrum, or with one or more other metals. In addition, traces of gold often occur in the ore deposits of sulfides (sulfur compounds) of such metals as iron, copper, nickel, lead, and zinc. Leaching dissolves the exposed gold out of the ground ore using a chemical solvent. Today, most gold leaching processes use cyanide and oxygen. Don |
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#43
17-07-2003, 01:17 AM
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Plant Labels - from used aluminium cans
"David Hill" expounded:
What is the relevance of gold mining to Plant labels???????? I can see a gold mine would help to buy all the plants we would like to have. It's called thread drift, David, happens to the best of groups G -- Ann, Gardening in zone 6a Just south of Boston, MA ******************************** |
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#44
17-07-2003, 01:42 AM
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Plant Labels - from used aluminium cans
It's called a tangent!
On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:30:07 +0100, "David Hill" wrote: What is the relevance of gold mining to Plant labels???????? I can see a gold mine would help to buy all the plants we would like to have. |
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#45
17-07-2003, 05:55 AM
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Plant Labels - from used aluminium cans
"Franz Heymann" wrote in message ...
"Ned Flanders" wrote in message om... There are no such things as gold ores to my knowledge. Sure there is, Calaverite, Chalcocite, Bornite, Chalcopyrite and enargite, are a few.... Gold is an almost inert element. As far as I know, gold is always found as a simple metal. No. That would be native gold--which is rare. Most gold is in ores. That is incorrect. How so? I do not consider gold that cannot be seen even under magnification, that is locked up in other minerals to be native gold--hence the list of known ores. 95% of the gold mined in the world occurs as native gold, or as gold-silver alloys (or simple mechanical mixtures. I am not quite certain). What? why not 100%? You cite ALL of the places where gold IS. The minerals I listed ARE ores and they fall under mechanical mixtures which you cite as being part of your 95% of mined gold. The only gold ore of any significance id Calaverite, which is gold telluride, which is mined in quantities which are small compared to the native gold mined in South Africa. The other minerals you quote do not contain any gold in their chemical compositions. But the gold is a prisoner of some formations of the minerals I listed which than makes them gold ores. Mind you it's not in all of the formations, so a large concentration of the minerals can differ which is why you have copper mines, gold mines, and silver mines. But it may be that the miners are working the same minerals in each mine with a different end product in mind. Here in Pennsylvania, the largest gold production was from the Cornwall Iron mine, which is the longest running iron mine in this country 1742-1972. Along with Magnetite, Iron Pyrite, and Chalcopyrite was mined. And at the French Creek Mine, some fifty miles away, the same minerals were mined, first for iron production, than as a copper mine. However, the Chalcopyrite, Iron Pyrite, and Magnetite were not auriferous, therefore there was no gold mined at the French Creek Mine. Cheers, Ned |
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